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40</head><body><div id="__nuxt"><div><div data-v-ce7ed74b><header class="nav nav--dark" data-v-ce7ed74b data-v-075051fb><div class="container nav__inner" data-v-075051fb><a href="/" class="nav__logo" data-v-075051fb><img src="/logo-horizontal.jpg" alt="Product & Cake" class="nav__logo-img" width="400" height="137" data-v-075051fb></a><nav class="nav__links" data-v-075051fb><a href="/#episodes" data-v-075051fb>Episodes</a><a href="/#hosts" data-v-075051fb>Hosts</a><a href="/#contact" class="nav__cta-link" data-v-075051fb>Get in touch</a></nav></div></header><div class="ep-header" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-header__media" data-v-ce7ed74b><img src="https://media.product-and-cake.com/S04E09.jpeg" alt="Founder of Relay.app Jacob Bank on AI Agents, Leaving Google, and Building with Purpose" class="ep-header__video" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-header__fade" data-v-ce7ed74b></div></div><div class="container ep-header__overlap" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-header__card" data-v-ce7ed74b><a href="/#episodes" class="ep-back" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="14" height="14" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2.5" data-v-ce7ed74b><polyline points="15 18 9 12 15 6" data-v-ce7ed74b></polyline></svg> All episodes </a><p class="ep-card__guest" data-v-ce7ed74b><span class="ep-card__guest-avatar" data-v-ce7ed74b>K</span> Kurtis Morrison <span class="ep-card__guest-role" data-v-ce7ed74b>· Growth Strategy Advisor, Babbel</span></p><h1 class="ep-card__title" data-v-ce7ed74b>Founder of Relay.app Jacob Bank on AI Agents, Leaving Google, and Building with Purpose</h1><div class="ep-card__meta" data-v-ce7ed74b><span class="ep-card__meta-season" data-v-ce7ed74b>S04E09</span><span class="ep-card__meta-dot" data-v-ce7ed74b></span><span data-v-ce7ed74b>April 30, 2025</span><span class="ep-card__meta-dot" data-v-ce7ed74b></span><svg width="12" height="12" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" data-v-ce7ed74b><circle cx="12" cy="12" r="10" data-v-ce7ed74b></circle><polyline points="12 6 12 12 16 14" data-v-ce7ed74b></polyline></svg> 48:11</div></div></div></div><main class="ep-body" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="container ep-body__inner" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-player" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-player__seek" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-player__bar" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-player__fill" style="width:0%;" data-v-ce7ed74b></div><div class="ep-player__thumb" style="left:0%;" data-v-ce7ed74b></div></div><div class="ep-player__times" data-v-ce7ed74b><span data-v-ce7ed74b>0:00</span><span data-v-ce7ed74b>0:00</span></div></div><div class="ep-player__controls" data-v-ce7ed74b><button class="ep-ctrl ep-ctrl--sm" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="22" height="22" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="currentColor" data-v-ce7ed74b><path d="M12 5V1L7 6l5 5V7c3.31 0 6 2.69 6 6s-2.69 6-6 6-6-2.69-6-6H4c0 4.42 3.58 8 8 8s8-3.58 8-8-3.58-8-8-8z" data-v-ce7ed74b></path><text x="12" y="14.5" text-anchor="middle" font-size="5" fill="currentColor" font-family="Inter,sans-serif" font-weight="700" data-v-ce7ed74b>15</text></svg></button><button class="ep-ctrl ep-ctrl--play" aria-label="Play" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="26" height="26" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="currentColor" data-v-ce7ed74b><polygon points="6 3 20 12 6 21 6 3" data-v-ce7ed74b></polygon></svg></button><button class="ep-ctrl ep-ctrl--sm" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="22" height="22" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="currentColor" data-v-ce7ed74b><path d="M18 13c0 3.31-2.69 6-6 6s-6-2.69-6-6 2.69-6 6-6v4l5-5-5-5v4c-4.42 0-8 3.58-8 8s3.58 8 8 8 8-3.58 8-8h-2z" data-v-ce7ed74b></path><text x="12" y="14.5" text-anchor="middle" font-size="5" fill="currentColor" font-family="Inter,sans-serif" font-weight="700" data-v-ce7ed74b>30</text></svg></button><div class="ep-player__platforms" data-v-ce7ed74b><a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/6GWmx7OdEn04inrQjp3Bif" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="ep-player__platform" title="Spotify" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="currentColor" data-v-ce7ed74b><path d="M12 0C5.4 0 0 5.4 0 12s5.4 12 12 12 12-5.4 12-12S18.66 0 12 0zm5.521 17.34c-.24.359-.66.48-1.021.24-2.82-1.74-6.36-2.101-10.561-1.141-.418.122-.779-.179-.899-.539-.12-.421.18-.78.54-.9 4.56-1.021 8.52-.6 11.64 1.32.42.18.479.659.301 1.02zm1.44-3.3c-.301.42-.841.6-1.262.3-3.239-1.98-8.159-2.58-11.939-1.38-.479.12-1.02-.12-1.14-.6-.12-.48.12-1.021.6-1.141C9.6 9.9 15 10.561 18.72 12.84c.361.181.54.78.241 1.2zm.12-3.36C15.24 8.4 8.82 8.16 5.16 9.301c-.6.179-1.2-.181-1.38-.721-.18-.601.18-1.2.72-1.381 4.26-1.26 11.28-1.02 15.721 1.621.539.3.719 1.02.419 1.56-.299.421-1.02.599-1.559.3z" data-v-ce7ed74b></path></svg></a><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/product-and-cake/id1651982219" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="ep-player__platform" title="Ap
40ple Podcasts" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="currentColor" data-v-ce7ed74b><path d="M18.071 0H5.929C2.655 0 0 2.656 0 5.93v12.14C0 21.344 2.655 24 5.929 24h12.142C21.345 24 24 21.344 24 18.07V5.929C24 2.655 21.345 0 18.071 0zm-6.07 3.6c3.87 0 7 3.13 7 7a7 7 0 01-7 7 7 7 0 01-7-7c0-3.87 3.13-7 7-7zm0 2.1a4.9 4.9 0 100 9.8 4.9 4.9 0 000-9.8zm0 1.4a2.1 2.1 0 110 4.2 2.1 2.1 0 010-4.2z" data-v-ce7ed74b></path></svg></a></div><!----></div></div><div class="ep-platforms" data-v-ce7ed74b><a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/6GWmx7OdEn04inrQjp3Bif" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="ep-platform ep-platform--spotify" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="currentColor" data-v-ce7ed74b><path d="M12 0C5.4 0 0 5.4 0 12s5.4 12 12 12 12-5.4 12-12S18.66 0 12 0zm5.521 17.34c-.24.359-.66.48-1.021.24-2.82-1.74-6.36-2.101-10.561-1.141-.418.122-.779-.179-.899-.539-.12-.421.18-.78.54-.9 4.56-1.021 8.52-.6 11.64 1.32.42.18.479.659.301 1.02zm1.44-3.3c-.301.42-.841.6-1.262.3-3.239-1.98-8.159-2.58-11.939-1.38-.479.12-1.02-.12-1.14-.6-.12-.48.12-1.021.6-1.141C9.6 9.9 15 10.561 18.72 12.84c.361.181.54.78.241 1.2zm.12-3.36C15.24 8.4 8.82 8.16 5.16 9.301c-.6.179-1.2-.181-1.38-.721-.18-.601.18-1.2.72-1.381 4.26-1.26 11.28-1.02 15.721 1.621.539.3.719 1.02.419 1.56-.299.421-1.02.599-1.559.3z" data-v-ce7ed74b></path></svg> Listen on Spotify </a><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/product-and-cake/id1651982219" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="ep-platform ep-platform--apple" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="currentColor" data-v-ce7ed74b><path d="M18.071 0H5.929C2.655 0 0 2.656 0 5.93v12.14C0 21.344 2.655 24 5.929 24h12.142C21.345 24 24 21.344 24 18.07V5.929C24 2.655 21.345 0 18.071 0zm-6.07 3.6c3.87 0 7 3.13 7 7a7 7 0 01-7 7 7 7 0 01-7-7c0-3.87 3.13-7 7-7zm0 2.1a4.9 4.9 0 100 9.8 4.9 4.9 0 000-9.8zm0 1.4a2.1 2.1 0 110 4.2 2.1 2.1 0 010-4.2z" data-v-ce7ed74b></path></svg> Listen on Apple Podcasts </a></div><div class="ep-desc" data-v-ce7ed74b><!----><!--[--><p data-v-ce7ed74b>Jacob Bank left a director role at Google to build something faster, simpler, and more human: Relay, an AI agent platform for real businesses. In this episode, we talk about what happens when you stop chasing PRDs, why small teams often move faster than giants, and how actionânot analysisâcreates real information. A conversation about product, growth, AI, and the stories we tell ourselves along the way.</p><!--]--></div><div class="ep-guest" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-guest__avatar" data-v-ce7ed74b>K</div><div class="ep-guest__info" data-v-ce7ed74b><h3 class="ep-guest__name" data-v-ce7ed74b>Kurtis Morrison</h3><p class="ep-guest__role" data-v-ce7ed74b>Growth Strategy Advisor</p><p class="ep-guest__company" data-v-ce7ed74b>Babbel</p><div class="ep-guest__links" data-v-ce7ed74b><!----><!----></div></div><div class="ep-guest__logo-wrap" data-v-ce7ed74b><img src="/logos/babbel.svg" alt="Babbel" class="ep-guest__logo" data-v-ce7ed74b><span class="ep-guest__logo-name ep-guest__logo-name--hidden" data-v-ce7ed74b>Babbel</span></div></div><nav class="ep-nav" data-v-ce7ed74b><a href="/episode/jacob-clark-hyperact" class="ep-nav__btn" data-v-ce7ed74b><svg width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2.5" data-v-ce7ed74b><polyline points="15 18 9 12 15 6" data-v-ce7ed74b></polyline></svg><div class="ep-nav__text" data-v-ce7ed74b><span class="ep-nav__label" data-v-ce7ed74b>Previous episode</span><span class="ep-nav__title" data-v-ce7ed74b>Jacob Clark</span></div></a><a href="/episode/jacob-bank-relay" class="ep-nav__btn ep-nav__btn--right" data-v-ce7ed74b><div class="ep-nav__text" data-v-ce7ed74b><span class="ep-nav__label" data-v-ce7ed74b>Next episode</span><span class="ep-nav__title" data-v-ce7ed74b>Jacob Bank</span></div><svg width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2.5" data-v-ce7ed74b><polyline points="9 18 15 12 9 6" data-v-ce7ed74b></polyline></svg></a></nav></div></main><audio src="https://media.product-and-cake.com/S04E09.mp3" preload="metadata" data-v-ce7ed74b></audio><footer class="footer" data-v-ce7ed74b data-v-82084a96><div class="container footer__inner" data-v-82084a96><div class="footer__brand" data-v-82084a96><img src="/logo-horizontal.jpg" alt="Product & Cake" class="footer__logo-img" width="400" height="137" data-v-82084a96><p class="footer__tagline" data-v-82084a96>A casual product chat with some tech toppings.</p></div><div class="footer__links" data-v-82084a96><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/product-and-cake-podcast/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-v-82084a96>LinkedIn</a><a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/6GWmx7OdEn04inrQjp3Bif" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-v-82084a96>Spotify</a><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/product-and-cake/id1651982219" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-v-82084a96>Apple Podcasts</a><a href="https://feed.product-and-cake.com/rss.xml" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="footer__rss" data-v-82084a96><svg width="12" height="12" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="currentColor" data-v-82084a96><path d="M6.18 15.64a2.18 2.18 0 0 1 2.18 2.18C8.36 19.01 7.38 20 6.18 20C4.98 20 4 19.01 4 17.82a2.18 2.18 0 0 1 2.18-2.18M4 4.44A15.56 15.56 0 0 1 19.56 20h-2.83A12.73 12.73 0 0 0 4 7.27V4.44m0 5.66a9.9 9.9 0 0 1 9.9 9.9h-2.83A7.07 7.07 0 0 0 4 12.93V10.1z" data-v-82084a96></path></svg> RSS Feed </a><a href="mailto:[email protected]" data-v-82084a96>Contact</a></div><div class="footer__legal" data-v-82084a96><a href="/impressum" class="" data-v-82084a96>Impressum</a><a href="/privacy" class="" data-v-82084a96>Privacy Policy</a></div>
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