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291 292<link rel="alternate" type="text/markdown" href="https://womansplainingai.com/episodes/shadow-daddy-chatgpt.md" /> 293</head> 294 <body> 295 <div id="root"><main id="route-fallback" class="prerender-shell"><h1>Womansplaining AI â Episode 20</h1><h2>Shadow Daddy ChatGPT</h2><p><strong>Yes, you can build an AI product without a big team or a funding round. Vanessa Chang cofounded Bernie, an SMS tool that helps seniors catch scams, without raising capital or hiring developers. Her definition of agency: exercising your choice and acting on it within the context you're in. Intention without action isn't agency.</strong></p><p>Vanessa Chang calls herself an unlikely AI startup founder. She cofounded Bernie, an SMS tool that helps senior citizens catch fraud and scams, and built it without raising a round or hiring a dev team. Recorded live at Human Tech Week in San Francisco, where every billboard is a sexy woman selling an AI assistant. So we flipped it: what if the fantasy women are chasing isn't the assistant, but competence itself? Enter Shadow Daddy ChatGPT.</p><p>Listen on <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/6uDNUzSFzZedJoiUE4lLfb">Spotify</a> or <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/womansplaining-ai/id1877678348">Apple Podcasts</a>.</p><h3>In this episode</h3><ul><li>Vanessa defines agency as exercising your choice and acting on it within the context you're in, not just abstract freedom to choose</li><li>"Agency doesn't come from standing still" â intention without action isn't agency</li><li>Why so many women say AI is being done at them, and how to leave the pro-AI vs anti-AI binary</li><li>Start in one low-risk task, build repetition, then trust it â the most actionable advice in the series</li><li>Shadow Daddy ChatGPT: flipping the sexy-female-AI-assistant billboard into the fantasy of competence</li><li>"No woman has a fantasy of being more productive" â the ask isn't 10x-ing your laundry, it's being partnered with</li><li>The tradwife shame thread: AI treated like you didn't grind your own wheat for sourdough</li><li>The brownie mix that needed exactly one egg to feel like love, not cheating</li><li>Bernie: an unlikely founder building a fraud-detection tool for seniors without $100K to hire a dev team</li></ul><h3>Questions this episode answers</h3><h4>What does agency mean in the age of AI?</h4><p>Vanessa Chang defines agency as exercising your choice and acting on it within the context you're in. It goes beyond intention, since intention without action isn't agency. Freedom to choose is only a shade of it, because we always operate inside constraints of time, role, and circumstance.</p><h4>Can you build an AI tool without a technical team or funding?</h4><p>Yes. Vanessa cofounded Bernie, an SMS tool that helps senior citizens detect fraud and scams, without raising a round or hiring a dev team. She calls herself an unlikely AI startup founder, and the episode treats it as proof that agency exists on the builder side, not just the user side.</p><h4>What is Shadow Daddy ChatGPT?</h4><p>It's Vanessa's flip on the sexy-female-AI-assistant image on every San Francisco billboard. The real fantasy people chase isn't the assistant, it's competence itself, and proximity to competence that makes you feel competent. The point isn't 10x-ing your chores, it's being partnered with.</p><h3>Resources mentioned</h3><ul><li><a href="https://www.textbernie.me/">Bernie â SMS fraud protection for seniors</a></li><li><a href="https://vanessachang.com/">Vanessa Chang</a></li></ul><p><a href="/transcripts/shadow-daddy-chatgpt.txt">Full transcript</a></p><h3>Continue listening</h3><ul><li><a href="/episodes/the-pope-has-entered-the-chat">EP 19: The Pope Has Entered the Chat</a></li><li><a href="/episodes/should-governments-ban-sex-robots">EP 21: Should Governments Ban Sex Robots?</a></li></ul><h3>Related episodes</h3><ul><li><a href="/episodes/is-ai-just-spicy-autocorrect">EP 18: Is AI Just Spicy Autocorrect?</a> â This week they sit down with Dr. Karina Alexanyan â Founding Executive Director of the Positive Technology Institute, co-architect of The Pledge, and a Gen X social scientist immune to the "learn AI now or get left behind" panic. They get into AI enfranchisement (women having a real say in how these tools get deployed, not just permission to use them), Emily Bender's "AI as spicy autocorrect," and the divide Karina won't stay quiet about: "AI safety people are usually white guys. AI ethics people are mostly women, people of color, and marginalized communities. We feel the damages now." Then the harder turn â those camps aren't enemies, they need each other.</li><li><a href="/episodes/women-in-ai-who-gets-a-seat">EP 01: On Women in AI and Who Gets a Seat</a> â Why are women using AI at lower rates than menâand is that actually a problem? We dig into the data, the valid reasons to be wary, and why ambivalence might be the healthiest response to this moment.</li><li><a href="/episodes/relief-not-raise-hand">EP 06: What a Relief to Not Have to Raise My Hand</a> â She spent 20 years at Siemens, Intel, and Google â and held on to her BlackBerry until it practically had smoke coming out of it. Then she got laid off, picked up ChatGPT, and built a political organization's website in 48 hours. Then wrote a book in 90 days. The
295n started teaching herself Stanford's CS curriculum on the subway. But the moment that stopped us cold was in a hair salon on the Lower East Side.</li></ul><h3>Topics this episode covers</h3><ul><li><a href="/topics/ai-at-work">AI at Work</a></li><li><a href="/topics/ai-and-gender">AI and Gender</a></li></ul><p>Guest: <a href="/guests/vanessa-chang">Vanessa Chang (Bernie)</a></p><h3>More from Womansplaining AI</h3><ul><li><a href="/episodes">All episodes</a></li><li><a href="/how-ai-destroys-institutions">How AI destroys institutions</a> â pillar essay</li><li><a href="/best-ai-podcasts">Best AI podcasts for women</a></li><li><a href="/glossary">AI glossary</a></li><li><a href="/stats">The numbers that stopped us</a></li><li><a href="/about">About the hosts</a></li><li><a href="/">Womansplaining AI home</a></li></ul><h3>Full Transcript</h3><p>Welcome back to Womansplaining AI. I'm Logan Currie, and this is the last interview that Mara and I recorded at Human Tech Week in San Francisco this spring. 296The whole event is built around one question. What does it actually look like for people to flourish in the age of AI? 297So big thanks to Nicole Bradford for making a space that made that feel very hopeful. 298If you want to go next year, registration for 2027 is already open. 299And I saved this one for the end on purpose. 300Vanessa Chang, who many people know as V, is a friend of mine. 301We actually met on TikTok. I've had many, many conversations with her.
302She's one of the sharpest people I know on any of this, many of the topics that we talk about. 303She is the co-founder of a startup called Bernie, which is an SMS tool that helps older adults spot fraud and scams. 304She calls herself an unlikely AI startup founder, and her whole thing is helping people think with AI and not like AI. 305If the other Human Tech Week conversations were about what agency means, this one is kind of about what it looks like when you actually go and build something. 306So here's V. 307Vanessa or V, we are asking people at Human Tech Week here what agency means to them. 308And, you know, the theme in some ways of this week or this event is around optimism and where you find, where are we creating optimism for ourselves? 309Where are you finding it? 310If you don't mind, maybe just sharing a little bit about what you think agency means. 311I feel like it's a little bit of an empty word in some ways these days are very trendy. 312What does it mean? 313Yeah. 314There are a lot of words that have come up since AI has come onto the scene that we have suddenly had to pay attention to. 315And I don't think we've ever really fully thought through or understand what the definition is before launching into the discussion. 316So I appreciate that question. 317I think critical thinking is one of them and agency is definitely one. 318And I've actually had this discussion where I've asked people, what does agency mean to you? 319Because I was trying to figure out what does it actually mean to me, especially. 320And there's this framing around freedom, right? 321Having the freedom to choose, you know, kind of whatever you want. 322And I find that limiting in the sense of freedom sort of being nebulous versus what is the freedom within the context that you're in. 323We as human beings rely on context, relationships, connections to create meaning, right? 324And to be oriented, physically oriented, but also emotionally, intellectually, I think, oriented. 325And so agency simply as like having a freedom of choice, yes, I think is a shade of that definition. 326But the true definition for me, agency is exercising sort of your choice and acting on it within the context that you are in. 327You can ultimately decide to pursue sort of the highest form of agency where it's just like F everybody, right? 328I'm going to do what I want to do. 329And if that's you, you do you, that's great. 330But ultimately, it is about how do I leverage where I am right now to get to the next point? 331It goes beyond intent. 332I think a lot of people talk about intention and we need that intention. 333But intention without the action, that's not agency, right? 334So what can you do? 335And we all operate within constraints and limitations by our choices, our socioeconomic sort of position, our jobs, our times, like our roles within communities and families. 336That that all needs to be taken into account because that's how we operate. 337And so for me, that automatically translates into hopefulness and hope because you wouldn't act if you didn't think you could do something, right? 338Or you could move somewhere or pursue something. 339So the TLTR, very long answer, is agency is that intention plus the action within whatever situation that you're in to get somewhere else or to be somewhere else or to feel something else. 340It's like movement. 341It's like forward momentum in some way. 342Correct. 343Agency doesn't come from standing still. 344So here's, that's a really good point. 345I know. 346That's a really good point. 347And so my question to you is I speak to so many women who say that they feel like AI is being done at them, which to me smacks of a complete loss of agency. 348Right. 349So how do you, and it takes people like where people are taking themselves out of the game because they're so overwhelmed. 350And this is something that I talk about a lot is, and we talk about it together is like, what I want people to do is come out of their poles of being either I'm totally pro AI or I'm totally against AI. 351We don't like the binaries. 352We don't like the binaries as we've established. 353We don't like the binaries. 354I think that part of the reason why people go to the binaries in this moment is because there's so much change happening. 355And it's like, if you're not in a role where it's absolutely mandated for you to adopt this, you can kind of ease, make a decision quickly and then choose a lane. 356I'm anti, I'm pro. 357Right. 358So how do you encourage women in particular out of the binary and see that this, they can reclaim their agency at this moment when they're so busy, they're working, you know, incredible hours. 359They're taking care of children or their parents, right? 360The brain space like does not exist for this. 361And people say that it feels like a second job. 362So how do you encourage people out of those corners? 363I feel like that's catch 22 for everybody because we're so overwhelmed. 364We could use the cognitive offloading, but we're so scared to cognitively offload, especially as women. 365And so it's then.
366Because it costs. 367It does cost. 368Because it bites us in the ass. 369And it's just determining and I guess measuring where that feels safe for you and where that is of benefit to you versus where is it a detriment, where it doesn't serve you anymore. 370And that's such a highly individualized answer that we actually, we as women, that's another thing we're asking ourselves to do is actually take the time to figure out or determine, okay, I feel good with this. 371And so if I go back to that definition around the context, right, where yes, okay, agency could be, I choose to participate and not to participate, right? 372There's the binary. 373Or it's this calculus that you can do in terms of, I don't have the time. 374I'm kind of getting a signal of ick from this, right? 375It doesn't feel good either way, but is there a way that I can at least leverage it to my benefit? 376You don't need a hundred percent apply it everywhere, right? 377That's probably impossible. 378But, you know, again, within that context of being so busy, of kind of feeling like you're pulled in 20 different directions, is there one way that you can utilize the tool and determine, okay, that was great. 379Or that was absolute garbage. 380I don't need this in my life at all. 381Like that is hype. 382And I think it is realizing that agency like comes in various scales. 383Like we have the acute application of like at work, I don't want to cognitively offload this. 384I want to keep this versus something in various different applications or at scale. 385Where it's lower risk. 386Where it's lower risk. 387Or where you find it fantastically boring. 388Yeah. 389And I think it is even just starting in one aspect or one place and having that repetition. 390And because that repetition is turning around like a good answer or a positive impact, and then you eventually trust it. 391Yeah. 392This idea that AI should take over everything and anything in our lives, that appropriately should be met with suspicion. 393100%. 394Yeah. 395100%. 396But if we can find one use case where it's genuinely helpful to us, and I want to invite this perspective to women especially, I find with the women that I talk to who are at this cusp, they don't want to go there because then they feel like it's not cheating. 397Or that it is cheating. 398100%. 399100%. 400I hear that all the time. 401And that bears out in the literature as well. 402That's right. 403Or there's some nobility into the suffering in a way where it's like, it's not a while unless we suffer. 404Yeah. 405And I agree. 406Friction is necessary. 407We love that necessary effort, but not everything needs to be suffering. 408So I would say that would be my entree to people. 409What is something that doesn't need to be suffering in your life that you can't offload to AI and maybe that'll make it feel a little less ick? 410Gosh, I know that. 411Because we don't, we, I mean, we suffer enough. 412Mm-hmm. 413Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. 414Mm-hmm. 415Okay. 416My maybe last follow-up question here is when you, because I think you're so thoughtful in how you decide where to have friction. 417And where you decide what to kind of offload, like, what does that look like for you on a day-to-day basis? 418Because I know for me, at least, it's very much sometimes I'm like, yeah, I want to do this. 419And other times it's a, it's a moving target in some ways. 420It's not going to be, oh, here's a hard and fast rule. 421But maybe talk us through what your thought process is at the moment in terms of like what you want to be suffering for versus what you want to offload. 422I think this is where women particularly excel. 423We're exceptionally good at triaging. 424Like we are, we are, you know, everyone talks about the pit. 425That is a woman's mind. 426Like we are triaging anything inbound and everything where it's, I would say whatever comes inbound and what is sort of the most serious for me or, you know, and sometimes also use AI to be selfish. 427Or it's like, what is it something that I genuinely don't want to do? 428Yes. 429I find that I am, I am primarily selfishly motivated when it comes to AI of like what I don't want to spend my time on. 430And a lot of it is inspired by you, Logan, with the administrative back office stuff with around chief of staff, right? 431Like how much of that can I offload to where I have established as a goal for me? 432I want to spend more time doing certain hard things like the reading, like the researching, like the writing, spending time face to face with people that, okay, if those are my priorities and that is like, you know, for this week's sc
432hedule, you know, what is on the agenda? 433What can I use with AI so that I protect that time and be selfish in addition to being helpful? 434I mean, I think for women, letting go of that idea that I have to suffer to make it worthwhile, letting go that I can't be selfish, like I can only use AI to be helpful. 435We love that we can use AI to be helpful, but also what can you use AI to improve your life, not just someone else's life and finding it in a way that is meaningful to you. 436Meaning, what are your, what are your priority? 437What are you valuing? 438What, what factors do you have in your life? 439Is the only way to make it stick versus, I know we talked about this, Logan, everyone wants a roadmap, right? 440It's like, just do this. 441But that one size fits all often doesn't land with a lot of people, right? 442They have to figure out a way to personalize it. 443Because one size fits men. 444I love that. 445One size fits men. 446Men are the default humans. 447Invisible women. 448Everybody read it. 449It's the best book ever. 450But yeah, that's what, that's what comes from her book. 451One size fits men. 452But okay, beyond, I think I see that. 453And I don't think, I don't even see men, I mean, to a certain extent, yes, they are prescribing a roadmap or whatever. 454But I think, I think that it's the, it's more of a collective experience. 455In some ways, I'll push back a little bit because that is how we are raised. 456This is, this is our education system is here is a, here is the, here's what is perfect looks like. 457This is a hundred percent, you know, and we, there is no mechanism for any of us who've grown up in kind of traditional education systems to learn what failure looks like, to learn what 70% looks like. 458And I think that it's always been externally presented to us. 459This is the rubric. 460This is what good looks like. 461And this is what you need to learn. 462And so I think that in many ways, the reason that this is so individual, which cuts both ways, you need the friction, you need the time to be able to design your own system. 463But at the same time, that's where it's really fucking cool because that is so personalized and it is very much driven by you. 464And it's not about reverse engineering from a goal. 465It's about forward planning and saying like, where do I want to be? 466Let's throw a dart at the wall in the next like three months. 467Where do I want to be from now? 468And I find that that terrifies a lot of people, women in general. 469And if that's one thing people ask me, like, what's your takeaway from AI? 470It's actually not a technical skill. 471It's this idea that it really forces you to know the shit out of yourself. 472And if you haven't had the time or bandwidth or even wherewithal to say, okay, I know enough about myself that I want to do this or that I need to do this rather than just kind of being reactionary, which feels like daily life for everybody, but women especially. 473It's really daunting because you can't personalize something that you're not really sure about that. 474It is kind of just throwing spaghetti at the wall, which can be fun if you have the bandwidth. 475But if your time is limited, you're like, where do I, where do I even start? 476Can I, can I, is anybody here read Akator? 477Sorry? 478No. 479Give me all the fairy smut. 480You haven't read A Court of Thrones and Merza? 481Oh, she will. 482She will after this. 483She will. 484She will. 485Okay. 486Do you know how, I'm going somewhere with this, I promise. 487I'm here for it. 488The Venn diagram is going to be strong on this one, I feel. 489So you know how Feyre has to look in the mirror? 490And it, and it basically, one of the main characters in the series. 491For those of us who have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. 492Okay. 493Let's orient everybody. 494Okay. 495There is a very, very, very popular series by Sarah J. Moss called A Court of Thorns and Roses. 496Okay. 497Akator. 498A.K.A. Akator. 499It is many people's entryway into the larger world of romanticy. 500Romanticy. 501Yeah. 502A.K.A. fairy smut. 503Fairy smut. 504Whatever you want to call it. 505So this is where my, my, my, my AI, my AI circle and my book talk circle are really Venn diagram. 506But so in the main, the main character, and I'm making this reference because so many women have read this book. 507Um, and it, and for good reason. 508It's very good. 509Um, so Feyre has to, there's like a challenge where it's, it's, she needs this, this artifact to kind of get this, somebody to help them in a war basically. 510But she, everyone's terrified of it because everybody up until this point has looked in this mirror and gone insane. 511And what happens is that you look in this mirror and it shows you all of your deepest fears and everything that you're ashamed of. 512And all of the things. 513I feel like that's my every day. 514Every single day of my life. 515Just as I live, but go on. 516It's relatable, but, but I think, and she ends up doing it because she's gone through so many trials and tribulations and the book that she's like, I know myself and I, I, I'm not, I'm not ashamed or I don't have, I can face within that mirror. 517And I think we always talk about how AI is a mirror. 518And, and I think that to your point, V, you have to know the shit out of yourself, the good, the bad, and the ugly, in order to really use these tools in a transformative way that is anyway. 519So I think that there's a, it's the mirror of like, it starts with an O or a bar. 520It's, it's something fantastical sounding and I know exactly what you're referring to. 521Something, something, yeah, no, that I, a hundred percent. 522It's this idea that it requires introspection in a culture that does not give us the time or space for introspection. 523That also is so loud with self-judgment around, and you and I feel this all the time around like AI tools. 524And we talk about this in our circles too, where it's, I can't keep up with everything. 525I don't know enough, like, and I think that prevents a lot of women from speaking about, especially their AI journey. 526I actually know a lot of, we talk about shadow adoption in business and enterprise. 527There is shadow adoption in women because I will offer the ugly side of people opting out of AI is that women get guilted into, into not like, oh, you use AI? 528Shame. 529Yes. 530Totally. 531Right. 532It's like, how dare you? 533Like, you know. 534Lean and just did, nope. 535Chief, lean and just did research about this. 536No, it was lean and it was lean and research chief did other research that's related, but lean and just did research that women get penalized more for using generative AI and get praised less for using generative AI. 537I believe that. 538And I think it's true. 539Like, I think that dynamic with women amongst women, we definitely saw that with the Reese Witherspo
539on sort of example. 540I mean, it's, you know, regardless of who said it, I think it's, it's really indicative of the fact that we feel sheepish about using it. 541Maybe we don't even know to get started. 542And then, yeah, go back to that, the, the primitive, the primary unit here. 543It's yourself, right? 544Operating and living as a woman. 545The odds are kind of stacked against us, right? 546To adopt it. 547I, okay. 548I'm going to draw another. 549Romanticy connection. 550Bring it. 551Because it was a great, I don't know if it was in the New York times or the cut, but. 552So this is an AI romanticity mashup. 553Exactly. 554I actually, I did, I did, I did a post in January saying the way that I feel about Claude Code is the way that I feel about heated rivalry. 555Yes, in a sense that I am like a Jehovah's witness. 556I'm just like, have we talked about the word of the Lord? 557The, the feel. 558Have we talked about heated rivalry? 559Have we talked about Claude Code? 560It's a bare witness. 561No, I, I will follow that up with. 562Yeah, yeah. 563I, the, the way I binge Claude Code sessions, I end up feeling the same way at the other end of it, the way I feel after binging Bridgerton or anything else. 564Okay, so follow me along here. 565There was a great article about how, uh, the trope in a lot of these romanticity books is about the much older people. 566older, like main love interest. 567So the MMC, the male main character, typically it's very gender normative in some ways, um, is often like 300 years older than the, the protagonist. 568And so the FMC, yeah, very much older, but there was a big, um, I forget, I'll, I'll try to find the creator who made this video, but she also wrote an article about it, about how the, the porn, the, the, the fantasy here is of competence. 569Wait, what? 570What do you mean? 571What? 572What do you mean? 573Meaning why are women so drawn to reading these stories of the main female character falling in love with this very self-assured, very understanding, but very, very clear decision-making somebody who's 300 year old man. 574And it's because it's the fantasy of competence because we are so approximate to competence. 575Then you're competent. 576It's somebody who's just kind of like, let me, let me help you figure this out. 577And so, and so I've read a lot about the, the womanification or like how, you know, Silicon Valley, we're here in San Francisco right now. 578Every single billboard is a, is a, is a sexy woman who's your AI assistant, but I'm like, how can we turn this on its head? 579And like, instead of sexy woman AI assistant, it's shadow daddy, MMCAI, it's shadow daddy, chat GPT. 580I love shadow daddy, chat GPT. 581I, that is, I mean, that is the runway to trust, right? 582Because it's competence. 583It's how can I externalize? 584It's not about, and I think that's where so much of it feels. 585And so much of the criticism that we read around essentially kind of like the name calling, if I were to say that, or the internecine warfare of what's happening with women right now is, oh, you use AI. 586Therefore, you're not wanting to think for yourself or you're trying to rob the creative class. 587It's about the environmental impact, but it's like, if we present the alternative and say like, okay, well, what, what are the good things? 588It's not just, oh, I can 10X myself because I'm sorry, no woman has a fantasy of being more productive in their life. 589I can't 10X my laundry or my dishes. 590Are you kidding me? 591It's what are, what are the ways in which I can be partnered with? 592We opened this conversation before we started recording of, I want a wife. 593You want a wife. 594I love a wife. 595You want a wife. 596And it's, and it's, how can we, and it's so many of there's, there's a there there in terms of like this fantasy of competence. 597And how do we tap into that? 598I love that framing. 599I think that is, I need to sit with that for a second. 600That is so good. 601No, but I mean, it's, so my hot take is we, you know, we allow that shit to be too hard for ourselves sometimes where if there is something that will make life easier for us, like why not take it? 602This is women avoiding an epidural. 603No, like people who are like, are you going to have an epidural? 604I'm like, am I alive? 605Like, am I? 606Do I use the internet?
607Do I wear hair? 608I'm going to have it like three months. 609Yeah. 610No, I mean, it's the same framing where, I mean, again, that bringing in that shame aspect to it where it's like, oh, you feed your kids frozen food or take out. 611We just had an episode about this where it's like, tell me you have never fed your kid a lunch bowl without telling me you've never fed your kid a lunch bowl. 612It's like, yes, I did. 613They are fed. 614They have calories. 615And by the way, they are loved and they got to school. 616Like, you know, I mean, so sue me. 617It's almost where AI is seen as that shortcut or that judgment of like, oh, you didn't grind your wheat from scratch to make sourdough bread for your family. 618Yeah. 619There's a trad wife. 620There's a trad wife thread there for sure. 621There is this pathway between like this purism, this intellectual and like emotional purism, purity versus like, you know, oh, you know, I did everything from this sort of from scratch. 622Therefore, it shows love and my merit as like a woman and a kingkeeper and a wife or whatever is just such BS. 623Do you know, do you know, do you know that you may know this, that when brownies were originally marketed? 624The CPJ psychology effect. 625Yes. 626Do you know this? 627They had to add an egg to make it feel like it was worthwhile. 628You used to be able to just put the brownie mix in water and then bake it and get a brownie back. 629And women didn't like it because they were like, I'm not putting in any effort. 630Yeah. 631I feel like I didn't do anything. 632I feel like I didn't do anything. 633And this feels like cheating and like I'm not really providing for my family. 634So they added the fucking egg. 635So that was the step was originally it was launch was just add water, minimal, convenient, but consumers didn't like it because it felt like it was cheating. 636So the one step was, okay, we'll add one egg and you made one egg is always the thing that I can't. 637My kids are like, let's move bake brownies. 638Well, we're going to skip that experiment. 639So I, I, now I'm seeing an alternate future where I'm like, oh, I could have. 640Okay. 641That's so interesting. 642It's so interesting. 643I think there, I think there's a, they're there. 644Yeah. 645Yeah. 646M M C A I M M C A I. 647There's a big, I think, I think it needs to start. 648I'm going to design you your romanticist syllabus. 649We're going to start. 650We're going to start late. 651I was going to say catch up on a guitar. 652I have you, I haven't even taken you to love struck. 653When you come to Boston, one of my close friends, love struck is so great. 654Opened, opened a romance bookstore in Harvard square and Rachel Cantor opened it. 655And it's phenomenal. 656I mean, coffee shop, wine bar, like enormous space. 657And it's a big, it's amazing. 658Yeah. 659Hashtag sponsor us. 660Hashtag love struck. 661Hashtag your next live event. 662There you go. 663Oh, we should do that. 664I'm going to message Rachel. 665I would fly in for that. 666I would fly in for that. 667Okay. 668Okay. 669Okay. 670Excellent. 671All right. 672Thank you, V so much for all of your- 673Should we ask V who she is? 674Oh, yeah, please. 675V, who are you? 676Hi. 677Hi. 678How are you contributing to the protopia, which we've established yesterday means? 679What did it mean? 680It's not a utopia and it's not a dystopia. 681It's like the best that we can do under the circumstances and given the constraints that we have. 682It's practically best. 683It's not a fantasy. 684It's not a nightmare. 685It's what is the best version of reality that we can create. 686Yeah. 687Yeah. 688So I'm V. 689Think with V. 690Logan and I met as TikTok friends and now we are connected through our intellectual circles. 691I just started talking about AI to learn about AI. 692And my thing now is to help people think with AI and not like AI. 693So not about the cognitive offloading, but also all the aspects that make us each who we are. 694And how does that thing manifest in a startup that I understand that you have? 695That's right. 696It helps with the fact that I am an unlikely AI startup founder. 697I created something called Bernie with my co-founders, which essentially helps senior citizens detect fraud and scams through an SMS platform. 698And it helps people like me or anyone who has parents that they worry about and wanting to make sure that they stay safe. 699So if you had said three years ago that you would be talking about AI and that you have a startup that is, you know, engined by AI, I would have said that that is utopian, not protopian. 700But that made it possible and it really is this idea that you do not have to be, you know, this true leader for AI, but that you can use AI in a way and still love it enough to call it out for its BS.
701Which is why I appreciate connecting with you two and other women that we've met in the space where we are finding these practical uses for it to not just improve our lives, but collectively kind of seeing what the opportunities are while it's also still holding space. 702And holding accountable the creators of the technology and, by the way, the government that is supposed to be regulating some aspects of the most egregious aspects of it. 703That's another conversation. 704That's another conversation. 705But yes. 706Well, I think just to end with that, and I think what you're building with Bernie is such a phenomenal example of a solution that in some ways I think, might I venture, is so purely like a female solution. 707Does that make sense? 708Where it's like, and I know you have your co-founders, but I think that this is, to me, so representative of the protopia future that I'm really hopeful for because it's an indication of you see a problem, you're coming up with a solution, and you're able to build that solution without needing to raise $100,000 of capital to hire a dev team. 709And it's like, no, no, no, you're doing the thing. 710You're doing the damn thing yourself. 711That's awesome. 712We can pick it up and run with it and let it take off from there. 713Yeah. 714Thank you, Bea. 715Thank you, Bea. 716Thank you both. 717This is so fun. 718Great. 719Okay. 720Okay. 721Okay. 722</p> 723<nav aria-label="Site"><p>Womansplaining AI: <a href="/">Home</a> · <a href="/episodes">Episodes</a> · <a href="/questions">Straight Answers</a> · <a href="/guests">Guests</a> · <a href="/research">Reading List</a> · <a href="/stats">The Numbers</a> · <a href="/glossary">Glossary</a> · <a href="/docs">Documents</a> · <a href="/best-ai-podcasts">Best AI Podcasts</a> · <a href="/why">Why this show</a> · <a href="/about">About</a> · <a href="/join">Newsletter</a> · <a href="/llms.txt">llms.txt</a></p></nav></main><!-- /route-fallback --></div> 724 <!-- Begin SpeakPipe code --> 725
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