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1Shows and conversations.</h1><p class="page-subtitle">Hundreds of episodes on business, design, creativity, and personal branding from Chris Do.</p></div></div><div style="opacity:0;transform:translateY(20px)"><div class="flex items-center justify-between mb-2"><span class="text-[14px] text-muted-foreground">302<!-- --> episodes</span><div class="relative"><button class="inline-flex items-center gap-2 px-4 py-2 rounded-full bg-primary text-[13px] font-semibold uppercase tracking-[1.5px] text-primary-foreground hover:opacity-90 transition-opacity">All Topics<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-chevron-down w-3.5 h-3.5 text-muted-foreground transition-transform" aria-hidden="true"><path d="m6 9 6 6 6-6"></path></svg></button></div></div><div class="w-full h-[1px] bg-border mb-10"></div></div><div style="opacity:0;transform:translateY(20px)"><div class="mb-12"><a class="group block" href="/watch/stop-promoting-start-telling-better-stories"><div class="bg-background rounded-none overflow-hidden transition-shadow duration-300 hover:shadow-card-hover"><div class="grid grid-cols-1 lg:grid-cols-2 gap-0"><div class="relative overflow-hidden"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FFPaVFBEIhI/maxresdefault.jpg" srcSet="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FFPaVFBEIhI/mqdefault.jpg 320w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FFPaVFBEIhI/hqdefault.jpg 480w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FFPaVFBEIhI/sddefault.jpg 640w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FFPaVFBEIhI/maxresdefault.jpg 1280w" sizes="(min-width: 768px) 58vw, 100vw" alt="Stop Promoting Your Business. Start Telling Better Stories - The Futurâ¢" width="1280" height="720" class="w-full aspect-video object-cover" fetchPriority="high"/></div><div class="p-8 lg:p-10 flex flex-col justify-center"><div class="flex items-center gap-3 mb-3"><span class="text-[11px] font-semibold uppercase tracking-[2.5px] text-primary">MARKETING</span></div><h2 class="text-[32px] font-semibold leading-[0.95] text-foreground group-hover:text-primary transition-colors mb-3" style="text-wrap:pretty">Stop Promoting Your Business. Start Telling Better Stories</h2><p class="text-[16px] leading-[1.35] text-muted-foreground line-clamp-3" style="text-wrap:pretty">Chris Do reveals how to move beyond mere promotion and engage audiences through compelling storytelling, demonstrating its power to transform businesses.</p><div class="mt-4 flex items-center gap-1.5 text-[13px] font-semibold text-primary"><span>Watch now</span><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-arrow-right w-3.5 h-3.5 transition-transform duration-300 group-hover:translate-x-1" aria-hidden="true"><path d="M5 12h14"></path><path d="m12 5 7 7-7 7"></path></svg></div></div></div></div></a></div></div><div class="flex items-center gap-4 mb-8"><span class="text-[14px] font-bold uppercase tracking-[2.5px] text-muted-foreground">Latest</span><div class="flex-1 h-[1px] bg-border"></div></div><div class="grid grid-cols-1 sm:grid-cols-2 lg:grid-cols-3 gap-x-6 gap-y-10"><div style="opacity:0;transform:translateY(20px)"><a class="group block h-full" href="/watch/you-dont-need-a-personal-brand-you-need-an-offer"><div class="bg-background rounded-none overflow-hidden transition-shadow duration-300 hover:shadow-card-hover h-full flex flex-col"><div class="relative overflow-hidden"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RnJ02DGOaxw/maxresdefault.jpg" srcSet="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RnJ02DGOaxw/mqdefault.jpg 320w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RnJ02DGOaxw/hqdefault.jpg 480w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RnJ02DGOaxw/sddefault.jpg 640w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RnJ02DGOaxw/maxresdefault.jpg 1280w" sizes="(min-width: 768px) 46vw, 100vw" alt="You Don't Need a Personal Brand. You Need an Offer. - The Futurâ¢" width="640" height="360" class="block w-full aspect-video object-cover transition-transform duration-500 group-hover:scale-[1.04]" loading="lazy"/></div><div class="p-5 pb-6 flex flex-col flex-1"><div class="flex items-center gap-2 mb-2"><span class="text-[11px] font-semibold uppercase tracking-[2.5px] text-primary">PERSONAL BRANDING</span></div><h3 class="text-[20px] font-semibold leading-[1.05] text-foreground group-hover:text-primary transition-colors line-clamp-2" style="text-wrap:pretty">You Don't Need a Personal Brand. You Need an Offer.</h3><div class="mt-auto pt-4 flex items-center gap-1.5 text-[13px] font-semibold text-primary"><span>Watch now</span><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-arrow-right w-3.5 h-3.5 transition-transform duration-300 group-hover:translate-x-1" aria-hidden="true"><path d="M5 12h14"></path><path d="m12 5 7 7-7 7"></path></svg></div></div></div></a></div><div style="opacity:0;transform:translateY(20px)"><a class="group block h-full" href="/watch/cracking-the-youtube-code-a-playbook-for-viral-ideas"><div class="bg-background rounded-none overflow-hidden transition-shadow duration-300 hover:shadow-card-hover h-full flex flex-col"><div class="relative overflow-hidden"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j8yGn1v8OgU/maxresdefault.jpg" srcSet="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j8yGn1v8OgU/mqdefault.jpg 320w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j8yGn1v8OgU/hqdefault.jpg 480w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j8yGn1v8OgU/sddefault.jpg 640w, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j8yGn1v8OgU/maxresdefault.jpg 1280w" sizes="(min-width: 768px) 46vw, 100vw" alt="She Cracked the YouTube Code. 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1<script data-tsr-stream-part="">$_TSR.router=($R=>$R[0]={manifest:$R[1]={routes:$R[2]={__root__:$R[3]={preloads:$R[4]=["/assets/index-Dh-5MzOL.js","/assets/router-compat-u6ta3Cg-.js","/assets/react-dom-DzQ3mZxZ.js","/assets/dist-COaEa5_-.js","/assets/utils-5JI0044z.js","/assets/dist-DJaG_J-I.js","/assets/dist-DwO_UvoG.js","/assets/clsx-CjueKrWZ.js","/assets/createLucideIcon-BeAu5ZId.js"],scripts:$R[5]=[$R[6]={attrs:$R[7]={type:"module",async:!0,src:"/assets/index-Dh-5MzOL.js"}}]},"/watch/":$R[8]={preloads:$R[9]=["/assets/watch-vdQeODzr.js","/assets/useQuery-D-2e3xEk.js","/assets/useInfiniteQuery-BgX1VlJu.js","/assets/chevron-down-BJglnk5j.js","/assets/mic-CjFy8iPW.js","/assets/ScrollReveal-CBCcWHLT.js","/assets/image-utils-B1AlJUFW.js"]}}},matches:$R[10]=[$R[11]={i:"__root__�",u:1790909420648,s:"success",ssr:!0},$R[12]={i:"�watch��watch�",u:1790909420929,s:"success",ssr:!0}],dehydratedData:$R[13]={query:$R[14]={initial:$R[15]=[$R[16]={dehydratedAt:1790909420929,state:$R[17]={data:$R[18]={pages:$R[19]=[$R[20]=[$R[21]={id:"ab048493-26b8-4bbd-bda1-2f2ffaf4decd",video_id:"FFPaVFBEIhI",title:"Stop Promoting Your Business. Start Telling Better Stories",slug:"stop-promoting-start-telling-better-stories",topic_tag:"MARKETING",secondary_tags:$R[22]=["CONTENT CREATION","BRANDING","POSITIONING"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do reveals how to move beyond mere promotion and engage audiences through compelling storytelling, demonstrating its power to transform businesses.",pull_quote:"The highest form of intelligence is to observe without judgment.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[23]=[$R[24]={headline:"Shift from Promotion to Story",explanation:"Consumers are oversaturated with promotional content. Instead, focus on crafting compelling narratives that showcase transformation, engaging your audience on an emotional level and building genuine connection."},$R[25]={headline:"Embrace the Before-and-After Narrative",explanation:"Highlighting a character's journey from a 'before' state of struggle or lack to an 'after' of profound change creates a powerful emotional arc. This resonates deeply, illustrating the true value of an experience or product."},$R[26]={headline:"Master the Story Formula",explanation:"Every effective story features a character with a want, an obstacle in their path, and a transformation where they gain what they need. This timeless structure provides a blueprint for captivating content."},$R[27]={headline:"Specialize to Conquer the Market",explanation:"Attempting to serve everyone results in serving no one. Define your ideal client with extreme specificity, identifying their demographic, problems, and what they truly desire, to create targeted and impactful solutions."}],episode_summary:"\x3Cp>In an era saturated with digital noise, the fundamental challenge for businesses is no longer just visibility, but genuine connection. Traditional promotion, once a cornerstone of marketing, increasingly falls flat. Chris Do, founder of The Futur, argues for a radical shift: \x3Ca href=\"/watch/the-worst-way-to-tell-any-story\">stop promoting your business and start telling better stories\x3C/a>. This isn't about mere content creation; it's about weaving narratives that resonate, transform, and ultimately, captivate.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The prevailing mindset often leads entrepreneurs down a frustrating path. One attendee, a travel business owner offering high-end, bespoke adventures at an accessible price point, articulated a common dilemma: \x3Cem>\"We are focusing a lot on experience. But how can you brand this experience in a world where there is so much noise?\"\x3C/em> This sentiment echoes a widespread struggle against an ever-louder marketplace.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Do immediately challenged the premise, not by dismissing the noise, but by reframing the internal narrative. Terms like \x3Cem>\"hypocrisy\"\x3C/em> and \x3Cem>\"noisy\"\x3C/em>, while understandable reactions to market realities, betray a judgmental mindset that stifles creativity and engagement. Do referenced Jiddu Krishnamurti, the Indian philosopher, stating: \x3Cem>\"The highest form of intelligence is to observe without judgment.\"\x3C/em> This philosophical grounding serves as a critical reframe for any creative professional or business owner feeling overwhelmed.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Instead of viewing the market as an adversarial force, Do advocated for a neutral, problem-solving approach. The objective is not to battle the noise but to transcend it through authenticity and compelling communication. The travel business, boasting a 90% retention rate and a seven-figure revenue, had already solved the hard part: delivering exceptional value. Their real problem was an \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-win-clients-you-want-to-work-with\">imagination gap\x3C/a>: the inability of potential customers to envision the unique experiences offered. This gap, Do explained, is where powerful storytelling becomes indispensable.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>The Imagination Gap and Proof of Transformation\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>The core challenge for many businesses, even those with exceptional products or services, is bridging the \x3Cstrong>imagination gap\x3C/strong>. Customers struggle to visualize an abstract concept, especially when it involves an experience. They cannot simply conjure the emotion or the transformation that a service promises. This is particularly true for high-value offerings like the adventure travel business, where a 2,000-euro trip promises a profou
1nd, life-changing journey.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Do highlighted that proof isn't found in the future experience itself, but in documented past successes. \x3Cem>\"Where's the proof?\"\x3C/em> Do challenged. \x3Cem>\"No, it's too late. I need to see the proof.\"\x3C/em> This proof must exist in tangible forms, showcased before commitment. It means meticulously capturing the essence of the experience through various media, illustrating the transformation firsthand. This is not about self-promotion, but about providing evidence that speaks volumes.\x3C/p>\x3Cul>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Visuals:\x3C/strong> High-quality photos and videos are paramount. These should not be stock images or merely adequate; they must be so compelling they evoke an immediate desire to participate. Do emphasized the need for \x3Cem>\"sexy images and videos\"\x3C/em> that make a viewer want to book \x3Cem>\"now.\"\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Testimonials:\x3C/strong> Both written and video testimonials are crucial. Hearing directly from satisfied customers, witnessing their joy and growth, builds trust and allows prospective clients to see themselves in that transformed state.\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Comprehensive Documentation:\x3C/strong> Beyond photos and videos, consider illustrations, audio, and any other form of media that can capture the essence of the experience. The goal is to provide an immersive preview that closes the imagination gap.\x3C/li>\x3C/ul>\x3Cp>The mistake many make is attempting to produce this proof themselves, often with insufficient skills or resources. The travel business owner, a graphic designer by trade, admitted to trying to do too much personally. Do's advice was sharp: \x3Cem>\"The answer is no. Just say no.\"\x3C/em> Delegating content creation to skilled professionals, such as cinematographers or editors, ensures the proof is as compelling as the experience itself. This echoes a broader theme Do often explores about \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-run-a-million-dollar-solo-design-agency\">leveraging specialized talent\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>The Archetypal Story Formula: Character, Want, Obstacle, Need, Transformation\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>At the heart of effective storytelling lies a universal, timeless structure. Do presented a simplified yet profound story formula, something he taught his children when they were just five years old. This formula is not merely theoretical; it's the bedrock of all compelling narratives, from ancient myths to modern blockbusters. \x3Cem>\"Every story has these three components,\"\x3C/em> Do explained. \x3Cem>\"There's a character, and they want something. Something stands in their way.\"\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>This core structure quickly expands into a five-part arc:\x3C/p>\x3Col>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Character:\x3C/strong> The protagonist of the story.\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Want:\x3C/strong> A clear, external desire the character pursues.\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Obstacle:\x3C/strong> The conflict, internal or external, that prevents the character from immediately achieving their want. As Robert McKee, author of \x3Cem>Story\x3C/em>, famously states, \x3Cem>\"No conflict, no story.\"\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Need:\x3C/strong> What the character truly requires for internal growth, often discovered only when the external want is unattainable or proving unfulfilling.\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Transformation:\x3C/strong> The profound internal change the character undergoes by the end of the narrative, achieving what they needed rather than merely what they wanted.\x3C/li>\x3C/ol>\x3Cp>Do illustrated this with classic movie examples: \x3Cem>Romeo and Juliet\x3C/em>, \x3Cem>Maid in Manhattan\x3C/em>, \x3Cem>Pretty Woman\x3C/em>, \x3Cem>You've Got Mail\x3C/em>. In each, a character wants something (often love or acceptance), encounters an obstacle (feuding families, social class, opposing businesses), and through navigating that conflict, realizes a deeper need (self-worth, authenticity, true connection). The absence of this formula results in unwatchable, experimental narratives, as Do humorously recalled from his art school days: \x3Cem>\"French avant-garde, unwatchable. But I had to pretend like, 'Oh my god, that's so amazing.'\"\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The power of transformation is what makes a story emotionally engaging. Do shared the mov
1ing narrative of the film \x3Cem>Whale Rider\x3C/em>, where a young MÄori girl tirelessly seeks her grandfather's love despite being seen as an omen. Her ultimate act of bravery, saving a beached whale, transforms her grandfather's perception, allowing him to finally see and accept her. This emotional journey is what audiences crave; it's what makes them invest in the narrative and, by extension, in the experience being presented.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>The Power of Before-and-After Stories in Marketing\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>Applying the story formula to marketing means embracing the \x3Cstrong>before-and-after story\x3C/strong>. This is not a superficial comparison of product features but a profound exploration of human change. Do challenged the audience: \x3Cem>\"What are we going to show before and after?\"\x3C/em> The answer lies in showcasing a significant arc of transformation, not just in the client's circumstances, but in their internal state.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Do provided a vivid example for the travel business: imagine interviewing someone who has never left their country, fears flying, and dislikes cold weather. This is the \x3Cem>\"before\"\x3C/em> state, replete with anxieties and limitations. The narrative then builds tension, asking: \x3Cem>\"What's going to happen to this person?\"\x3C/em> The \x3Cem>\"after\"\x3C/em> depicts them thriving in an adventure, perhaps even scaling an ice mountain. This dramatic contrast, this journey from timid to triumphant, holds immense power. The visuals become more impactful because they are contextualized by the narrative arc. This approach is far more compelling than merely showcasing beautiful landscapes; it shows the human impact.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>This principle extends beyond travel. Do recounted the pervasive and often-staged social media content featuring individuals disguised as homeless, only to reveal themselves as benefactors. While acknowledging the manufactured nature, Do conceded, \x3Cem>\"I can't help myself. Okay?\"\x3C/em> The story, despite its contrivance, effectively creates a rising tension, unmet expectations, and ultimately, a dramatic, positive resolution. The stakes continually increase: a pair of shoes, then a thousand dollars, then ten thousand, a car, concert tickets, even a house. These narratives, despite their origin, tap into a primal human desire for positive transformation and generosity.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>These stories demonstrate the profound impact of showing change, not just product attributes. They create an emotional hook that draws viewers in, making them forget they are consuming marketing content. This strategic shift from overt promotion to authentic storytelling is a cornerstone of effective content creation, a topic Do frequently elaborates on in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/why-your-expert-content-is-being-ignored-chris-do\">discussions about audience engagement\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>From Attention Economy to the Thank You Economy\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>The prevailing paradigm in digital marketing is often the \x3Cstrong>attention economy\x3C/strong>: the relentless pursuit of eyeballs and clicks. Do proposed a more sustainable and fulfilling alternative: the \x3Cstrong>thank you economy\x3C/strong>. This concept transcends mere viewership, suggesting that when individuals or businesses contribute genuine good to the world without expectation, the audience responds with support, loyalty, and financial reciprocity. \x3Cem>\"Attention feels empty sometimes,\"\x3C/em> Do noted, \x3Cem>\"but the thank you economy is you do good in the world with no expectations, and we the audience thank you for it by watching it, by supporting you.\"\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The example of the content creator who poses as homeless, then delivers escalating acts of kindness, perfectly illustrates this. These videos garner millions of views, not just for their entertainment value, but for the profound emotional impact they generate. This viral engagement attracts corporate sponsors who align with the creator's message of generosity. Hyundai might offer a car, or a sports team might provide tickets, all because the creator built a community around positive action. The creator is not directly selling a product but facilitating good deeds, and the market rewards this indirect value creation.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Another example involves 'blue-collar' content creators who film themselves performing acts of service, like mowing an overgrown lawn for an elderly person. While the direct service might be worth a small amount, the video of their kindness generates millions of views. The revenue from advertising (CPM) and brand deals far surpasses the value of the physical labor. These
1creators are not in the lawn-mowing business; they are in the 'helping people' business, which turns out to be immensely profitable when documented and shared effectively. This demonstrates a complete pivot in business model: \x3Cem>\"If you make a small pivot from what you do and what you sell, you can have a completely new business that's 100% aligned with who you are.\"\x3C/em> This alignment of personal values and commercial success represents a powerful form of wealth, beyond just monetary gain.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>The Indispensable Strategy of Specialization\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>A persistent struggle for many entrepreneurs, especially those in service-based industries, is the challenge of niching down. One attendee, specializing in AI and software development, confessed: \x3Cem>\"I don't know what niche to pick.\"\x3C/em> Do countered this common dilemma with a firm assertion: \x3Cem>\"Most people suffer from the lack of clarity about who they serve. They try to serve too many people, and when you serve too many people, you serve no one.\"\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Do's approach to specialization is both rigorous and liberating. He demonstrated a rapid-fire process for defining an \x3Cstrong>ideal client profile (ICP)\x3C/strong>, emphasizing that 'picking' is not a limitation but a strategic advantage. The exercise began with fundamental demographic questions:\x3C/p>\x3Cul>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Gender Preference:\x3C/strong> Men or women? (\x3Cem>\"You're fired\"\x3C/em> if you say both, Do joked.) This immediately halves the theoretical market.\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Career Stage:\x3C/strong> Early, middle, or late career?\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Age Range:\x3C/strong> For the attendee, this narrowed down to \x3Cem>\"40s and 50s.\"\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\x3C/ul>\x3Cp>
1Next, Do pushed for deeper psychographic and professional insights:\x3C/p>\x3Cul>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Technological Acumen:\x3C/strong> What are their tech-related struggles? (For the 40-50 year old men, it was \x3Cem>\"bad with tech\"\x3C/em>).\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Business Type:\x3C/strong> What kind of business do they run? The attendee suggested \x3Cem>\"blue-collarish,\"\x3C/em> refining it to \x3Cem>\"service-based businesses\"\x3C/em> like \x3Cem>\"plumbers, electricians.\"\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Revenue Range:\x3C/strong> What is their annual revenue? (\x3Cem>\"Two to five million dollars in revenue.\"\x3C/em>)\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Geographic Location:\x3C/strong> Where are they located? (\x3Cem>\"US,\"\x3C/em> further specified to \x3Cem>\"Texas.\"\x3C/em>)\x3C/li>\x3C/ul>\x3Cp>Within minutes, a highly specific ICP emerged: AI and software solutions for male, 40-50 year-old, tech-challenged, blue-collar service business owners (plumbers, electricians) in Texas, generating $2-5 million in revenue annually. This seemingly narrow focus is, in fact, an expansive opportunity. As Do explained, \x3Cem>\"I like things that are difficult cuz it means there's less competition cuz everybody quits here.\"\x3C/em> This strategic focus is essential for \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-build-a-million-dollar-personal-brand\">building a powerful personal brand\x3C/a> and scaling a business.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Do also touched upon the concept of 'The Dip' by Seth Godin. This illustrates that initial excitement in a new venture often gives way to a challenging period of diminishing returns for increased effort before a potential breakthrough. Many quit in this dip. Specialization, however, provides the clarity and focus needed to push through, identifying the precise pain points of a specific market. It ensures that efforts are directed efficiently, leading to exponential growth beyond the dip.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>Leveraging AI for ICP Definition and Problem Solving\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>Do provided a practical, actionable strategy for refining the \x3Cstrong>ideal client profile (ICP)\x3C/strong> using AI tools. He specifically recommended Claude, rather than ChatGPT, noting that \x3Cem>\"the machinery knows all the language. It's much, much smarter than you in terms of its data repository.\"\x3C/em> However, the efficacy of AI hinges entirely on the quality of the prompt. \x3Cem>\"Sloppy input, sloppy output,\"\x3C/em> Do warned, underscoring the importance of precise language and detailed instructions.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>He outlined a structured prompt for Peter, the AI developer, to use:\x3C/p>\x3Cul>\x3Cli>\x3Cem>\"Claude, I'm 32, my name is Peter. I provide tech solutions for this specific demographic (describe your ICP here). I need help in defining my ideal client profile. Feel free to ask me a few questions before you make a suggestion. Be sure you check that there's enough potential customers in the market before you make this recommendation.\"\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\x3C/ul>\x3Cp>This prompt is effective because it provides context (Peter's background), defines the core request (ICP definition), explicitly grants permission for clarifying questions, and embeds a crucial constraint (market size validation). The AI, leveraging its vast data, can then generate a comprehensive ICP. The next step is human validation: \x3Cem>\"Now use your human brain to decide, does this ring true? Does it survive the pressure test?\"\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Once the ICP is solidified, AI can be further leveraged to identify and prioritize client problems. Do suggested a follow-up prompt: \x3Cem>\"What problems do they have that they'd like to get rid of?\"\x3C/em> Crucially, he advised using language that the target audience would naturally use, not marketing jargon. This ensures authenticity and relevance. The AI can then be asked to rank these problems by pain level and willingness to pay for a solution. This data-driven approach often reveals unexpected insights: \x3Cem>\"What might surprise you is you offer none of those solutions. This is an opportunity.\"\x3C/em> This precise understanding of client pain points, facilitated by AI, becomes the bedrock for developing compelling offers and narratives that truly resonate. It's about solving real problems for real people, in a way that feels deeply personal and highly valuable.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>The Storyteller's Mandate\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>The journey from mere promotion to impactful storytelling is not a superficial adjustment; it is a fundamental reorientation of how businesses connect with their audience. It demands a shift in mindset, away from judgment and towards empathetic observation. It requires courage to specialize, rather than chasing every potential client, and the discipline to document transformation rather than just features.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Chris Doâs framework is a clear mandate: understand the universal story formula, embrace the before-and-after narrative, and leverage modern tools to define your ideal client with surgical precision. This approach transforms marketing from a battle for attention into an invitation for connection. It positions businesses not as vendors, but as facilitators of profound, meaningful change. In a world clamoring for authenticity, the most powerful offering is not a product, but a compelling, honest story.\x3C/p>",transcript:"We have a short 4 hours together. This is my favorite format of working together. I have whiteboard. I have markers. I'm a happy boy. The way this works is I have some slides. But the slides are only here as a visual aid to what we're doing. I want to begin this masterclass by delving into the problems, the challenges that you're facing, cuz this is all about you. I've been talking to so many of you guys the last couple of days that I want to make sure you leave this event with no FOMO. You've not missed anything. Yeah? Is that okay? >> [cheering] >> All right. We can do this together. So, what I want to do is I want you to really think about the problem because most presenters, when you ask a question, they just go into answer mode. So, you feel like you have this one shot to package all the information, but I'm not most presenters. See, I have a dialogue with you. So, give me a little and we start to dialogue. We're in rapport and we'll show you how this is done. I really want you to think about the problem cuz that's all I listen to. We'll start with you guys. Can we get the mic runners here? By the way, before we get started, I just want to say can we just give it up for the mic runners, please, everybody? It's a difficult job. Difficult job. Somebody give them the mic. >> [applause] >> Give give them a mic. And then also the AV team, the audio team, the video team, they've been amazing to work with. You guys are amazing. Thank y
1ou. >> So, we have a product in travel business. And we are focusing a lot on experience. But how can you brand this experience in a world where there is so much noise and everyone is trying to cover their products in experience, you know? Like make them look like everything is experience, you know? Like >> Okay, let's slow down. The way you begin this is I want you to put on your your best trailer voice. In a world of experience design. Okay, and then you ask the question. Go ahead. >> So, in a world full of >> [laughter] >> noise. That's pretty good. Would you watch that movie? Give it a little more gravitas, bro. Use your chest voice. Let's go. In a world Give me some bass there. >> full of experience and noise, how can we make the most of our actual plan? >> [laughter] >> He's really good, guys. I don't know what he has, but he's really good. First of all, hey, yeah, give me a give me a fist bump here. That was really good. You guys look Okay, this is the example. We play. We're going to play together. Somebody might get hurt, more you than me, but somebody might get hurt. That's okay. It's always funny for everyone except for that person. Okay, I don't understand the conflict. You say it's a very noisy world. >> Yes. >> Okay, so I'll write the word noisy. Now, what else? What else do I need to know? >> You need to know that we are focusing on experience. That's basically becoming the product. >> Okay, and you're in travel, right? >> Yes, in travel business, yeah. >> What kind of travel? >> Uh well, we are taking people to adventures like in Iceland or in destinations that are different that what they usually do. Yeah, and we do it like with small groups, so the experience is like more customized. >> Okay, high-end bespoke. >> Yeah, somewhat, but we try to keep the price low, so we make people come back. We have like a 90% rate of retention, for example. >> What's your price? Roughly? >> Like four Like 2,000 euros, like I would say. >> That's great. How many days? >> Like you get like seven to 10 days. >> Wow. Chris, we got to take a trip. I think this is a sales pitch for this room. >> [laughter] >> This is a fake question, I believe. Okay, seven to 10 days for 2K. That's fantastic. >> Yeah. >> You good at doing this? >> Yeah, actually we are really good. >> Can you make money doing this? >> Uh yes, we got to seven figures this year after five years. >> Wow. Well, first of all, congratulations. >> Yeah, thanks. >> Seven figures euro, not roan, >> Uh yeah. >> Oh yeah, okay. Just double checking here. You know what? We should talk later. I I want to do experience travel for people to travel with me. This is an excellent price. We'll charge 8K. We'll pay you the two. >> Yeah, no worries. Yeah. >> You're good, right? You're happy? No, this is real. I'm not kidding around. >> Yeah. >> Will you connect with Drigo, my right-hand guy? >> Yeah, sure. >> For real? Okay. So, what's your problem now? >> So, >> [laughter] >> my problem is that I want to show people that we are doing things differently. >> Okay. >> But, there is so much hypocrisy I see. >> Oh yeah, okay. What's that? Okay. There's a mindset thing here. >> Yeah. >> We have to be very mindful of how we use words. He's like, \"So much noise, hypocrisy.\" Is anybody excited to work in that space? No. So, what we want to do Krishnamurti said this, \"The highest form of intelligence is to observe without judgment.\" >> Yeah. >> So, words that are judging that assign value to things like noisy >> Mhm. >> and hypocrisy, that's very violent language to describe something. >> Yeah. >> If you show up every single day and say, \"I hate my job. I hate my clients. I hate my life.\" Guess what? You're going to be really miserable. Uh people backstage a little concerned for me like, \"How you doing?\" I said, \"Excellent. Best day of my life.\" And I mean that. I am just glad I'm alive. And I have an opportunity to speak to so many of you, right? Yeah. It could be because there's a lot of sunshine in California. So, I'm just happy. A lot of rain and clouds here. But, let's just change our disposition on this a little bit, okay? We have a problem. We just want to solve the problem. Strip away all the emotional language here. And please pay attention, everybody, cuz we're going to do this for the next 4 hours. Let's not have me repeat this over and over again. Drigo, am I doing okay? >> You're doing great, Chris. >> Great. When I need your help, will you be ready? Perfect. >> [laughter] >> Okay. So, you just need to show the experience. Yes? >> Exactly. I want to show >> you tried? >> Well, we've tried to show a little bit behind the scenes. >> Wow. >> And all the photos and videos >> Yeah, and all the content we have on the website, all the photos are actually made by us. We don't use any stock or something. >> Well, I wouldn't brag too much about that, but okay. >> Well, I'm just saying that we are trying >> use AI or stock. It's okay. >> No, I'm just saying we show the whole process. Yeah. >> Okay. Are they really sexy images and videos? People doing like exciting amazing things? >> Uh somehow. >> See, somehow I don't believe you now. Like somehow I don't believe Drigo saying nice things about me. >> Well, we try to put the perspective like if you were there with your eyes, like POV perspective in the areas we show. >> That's not the question I asked. >> Okay. >> It's like I ask like say, are you married? >> Uh yeah. >> Uh say I'm your wife and like, where were you? And you're like, I had drinks. Where were you? You're not answering the same question. We have to be on the same wavelength here. You got it? Let's stay married for a long time. Yes? >> [laughter] >> I mean, that's a good thing, right? I've heard some rumors, but okay. Oh, we'll talk about that later. So, the videos have to be so exciting that I just want to book it now. Cuz I tell you right now, based on my experience, this is a very compelling price. >> Yeah. >> Drigo, we were just in Japan last year. How much did we charge for people to travel with us for 6 days? >> $7,500. >> That is a bargain. >> flights >> a bargain. >> is. I know. I know we have >> So, this is one of those things where in my experience, this is a bargain. It's an offer so good that I should be stupid to say no to. Fantastic job on that. So, all you have to do, in my opinion, is to show people the experience that you say you're giving them. >> Yes, that's the hard thing. >> No, because you can hire people to do that. Are you a cinematographer, editor? >> Mm, no. I'm basically a graphic designer turned brand strategist. >> The answer is no. Just say no. That's fine. >> So, what we do is we try to do too much ourselves, and so then the work doesn't look right. And I I tell you something, historically speaking, we are the worst judge of our own value. Everybody feel this? We are the last one to say we're worth something. >> Yes. >> Right? So, when you have someone with fresh eyes who can look at you objectively like me and say, \"This is a bargain. This is amazing. If you can deliver a great experience.\" Now I need proof. Guess where the proof is. Where's the proof, my friend? >> Well, in the actual product, right? When you come with us >> No, it's too late. I need to see the proof. >> So, then in the content. >> Be more specific. >> Pictures, videos, right? >> Yes. These things that are not stock. >> The content >> need to see great photos and videos, and we need to see testimonials. >> Oh, yeah. >> We need to see it written, and we need to see it in video form. We need to see people having the best time of their lives. >>
1 Yeah. >> Okay? >> don't have a lot of that. >> So, here's the problem, and this is what everybody here has. Human beings have an imagination gap. We cannot imagine things the way that you see things. Okay? For example, there was a time which I did not do brand strategy at all. But it was really clear I could do this. But I didn't have proof. So, every time I asked a client, \"Would you like to hire us to do brand strategy for 30K?\" they would say, \"No.\" Because there's an imagination gap. I had to close the gap. How do we close the gap? We agreed to do a project for less money than we would. So, then now I have proof. I show that proof, and now people say \"Yes.\" So, you just have to document the proof of people having an amazing experience in all forms of media. Photos, videos, illustrations testimonials audio everything that you can think of, you share. >> Okay. >> Okay? Now, I imagine you're sharing this on your website. >> Oh, yeah, and mostly social media. >> What what platform? >> On Instagram mostly. >> Okay. Lot of views? >> Uh yeah. >> How What's the How big is your following? >> Well, I don't remember exactly. Like >> So suspicious. This is the guy his name is Morgan Jay. Do you guys know the comedian Morgan Jay? He's the auto-tuned comedian and he sings a song suspicious as >> [laughter] >> You know the words. >> I don't know. I think it's like around 10K or something like >> Okay. Are you ashamed of that or are you proud of that? >> Well, I mean I don't know what to think about it. >> Doesn't feel like he's that proud of it. 10K is not that easy to get these days. >> Yeah, I know, but like I feel we are so much more >> 10K, bro. >> We are so much more. >> Okay, there's a lot of work. You know the cool thing is these kinds of videos with a strong emotional hook are highly watchable. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Let's get into content marketing, everybody, okay? Now, many of you are using social and you're probably using it the wrong way. So, if you just use this as a promotional video, no one will watch it cuz we know it's a commercial. We know this, but we keep doing things like this. What we want to do is to show a story. It's called the before-and-after story. Okay? Before and after. Okay? Do you know what that means? >> Well, I I can guess. >> You can guess? Okay, well, let's test your guessing. What are we going to show before and after? >> Well, it's before you go into I I mean before you experience like our product or what? >> Well, you're running out of enthusiasm. >> No, I'm just I'm I'm I'm going into thinking mode now and I'm >> Okay. Brain processing. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> [laughter] >> It's the beach ball on the mic. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, okay. The before-and-after is we want to see great change. We want to see an arc. >> Okay. >> Okay, so I'll draw a red marker here. We want to see this arc. How were we before? How are we after? How we transformed by that experience? So, you can interview some some timid people who talk about like, \"I've never left my country. The farthest I've ever traveled is 200 mi away from home, and I I drove in a car. I'm afraid of flying. I'm afraid of spiders. I don't like ice. I'm not good with cold weather.\" >> Okay, yeah. >> Okay? And you build up the tension. So, like what's going to happen to this person? And then you you drop them into the ice, and they're like drowning, and then they're climbing an ice mountain. You see now that story, those visuals have a lot more weight because I set up the story. Drigo, you've mastered this. >> Yes. >> Tell me a time when you had a story that you needed to work on and how you found that contrasting point. We talked about this recently. >> I think the recent story for me was the filming at the airport where I wasn't really sure how to tell that story and how to tap back in and into a moment when I was >> [snorts] >> younger. >> Which story was this? >> The airport one. >> You got to set it up so the audience knows. >> You know, I wasn't ready for that question Chris so >> It's pretty easy to be up here, yeah? >> It's a little bit harder than you make it look sometimes. >>
1 Okay, okay. So, does everybody have this thing here? So, what we do is we like to tell the story looking forward, like how things are great. And if we do that, that's totally okay. And we often forget like there's something that happened previously that sets up the meaning of the story. I'm on a request for love, for adventure. I've always been told I can't do this. I'll never accomplish this. And then we get to go again. Watch this, okay? There's a Let's say there's a Navy SEAL. Okay? And they're super athletic. They can do everything, and they have this reputation as badasses. Not only are they strong, they're tough, and they're smart. They can do everything. Pretty boring story. Right? But let's say that you're like undersized, picked on all your life, and you experience a car crash when you're young, and you were in a coma for 7 days. And you got out of it, and you asked yourself, \"What's the meaning of my life?\" And you started to exercise, and you got fit. And you decided to take on the biggest challenge of life. And that's how I became a Navy SEAL. See the difference there? >> Yeah. >> So, what we do is we pull those points apart, the past and the present and the future, and we find that one node, cuz there's a million nodes that make that story more dramatic, more interesting, and set up the motivation for why we do what we do. >> Yeah. >> So, you have a very common problem. I do something cool at an affordable price. Everyone should say yes to. So, you've done the hard work. >> Yeah. >> Okay? >> Yeah, I'm doing good. >> The The next part is you have to be a better storyteller. And I have some slides for that. So, I'll show you, okay? Thanks Drigo. >> All right, bro. >> Round of applause for Drigo, everybody. >> [cheering and applause] >> Okay. I I only have like 67 slides here. So, let me find the one that's right. Okay, here we go. Story formula. Can we see this? Yeah, okay, cool. All right. There's a story formula. I used to teach sequential design for almost 15 years at Art Center. And as far as I can tell, I've taken the most complicated structures. I did not invent this, but I just made it simpler. That's my job, to make complicated things simpler. So, it looks like this. Okay? Every story has these three components. And you just need to remember this is easy easy that I actually taught my children this when they're 5 years old. There's a character, and they want something. Something stands in their way. There's a character, they want something, and something stands in their way. Notice the way I set up today's workshop with you is what is it you want, and what's standing in your way. It's called an obstacle or a challenge. Something's holding you back. Often times, we think it's a physical thing, but most of the times, it's a mindset thing. Okay? Without the obstacle, there is no story. Robert McKee, who wrote the book called Story. He teaches and consults with Hollywood screenwriters. No conflict, no story. Somebody wants something and can't get it, right? So, the classic love story is boy falls in love with girl, boy can't get girl because that's the beginning of the story. Because why? Because their families hate each other. That's Romeo and Juliet. Right? Uh boy falls in love with girl, but can't get girl. Why? Because he's rich and she's a maid. That's Maid in Manhattan. Boy falls in love with girl, can't get girl. Why? Cuz she's a prostitute and he's a rich dude. This is story like it's the same freaking story over and over again, right? Uh cuz boy is um owns the giant mega bookstore and woman owns a small independent bookstore. That's You've Got Mail. It happens over and over again. And when we deviate from the formula, those movies don't perform. I used to go to art school and the cool thing at art school was to go to art house movies. Experimental art, you know, French avant-garde, unwatchable. But I had to pretend like, \"Oh my god, that's so amazing.\" So, I like, \"What happened?\" I don't know. They just ended the movie. She dropped the donut and it was done. I'm like, \"What?\" That's why they're not popular anymore, okay? You just need to know the formula. So, what happens then is we hit the obstacle and instead of getting what we want, we get what we need. Oftentimes what we want is something external and what we need is something internal, okay? Uh boy wants girl, can't get girl cuz boy's nerd, girl's cheerleader. Happens all the time, right? And what he does is he has money, instead of buying the instrument like a flute or a saxophone, he uses the money to say, \"Hey, can you pretend to like me? I'll be really popular in high school.\" And then all of a sudden people start to like him. And then the girl actually has real feelings. She catches feelings for him, right? But he becomes a jerk. Cuz he's like, \"Now I'm popular. Girl, I don't need you.\" So, what he thought he wanted was to be popular. What he needed to do was to be confident and to learn that he is enough. Make sense? >> Yeah, it's >> There's a want and then there's a need. So, at the end of the story, the character is transformed. So, character want, obstacle, instead of getting what you want, you get what you need, and
1you're left transformed. That transformation is what makes us emotionally engage with the story. Everybody understand? Without that transformation, we're like really angry. Like, \"Why won't you learn the lesson?\" Okay. Have you guys seen the movie Whale Rider? It's a really old film. I think it's from New Zealand. It's a beautiful film. I watched it and I like cried like a baby. I don't even cry. It was internal tears. But the story was the father thought this small village was too small for him. So, he went to the city. So, he abandoned his girl because he's out there trying to make money. And the grandfather became bitter that the boy left and betrayed the village. And because she was the only child of this this man, >> [clears throat] >> he thought she was an omen for the village. So, whenever they couldn't catch fish, when when things were going bad, the grandfather would blame her. And now I'm sitting there so mad. Like, \"What does little girl ever do to you?\" And she works so hard to prove herself against all the boys. They're on the water and they would dive for pearls, I believe. And she could hold her breath longer than everyone. She would find everything and she would risk her life all the time just to prove that she's as good as the boys. But no matter what she did, her grandfather never loved her. And it was heartbreaking. I mean, I'm just getting choked up thinking about it right now. Okay? So, one day there's there's a whale that beaches itself on on the shore and it's not a good sign. Not a good sign. And so, they don't know what to do. They're like praying, they're they're doing all the kinds of things they can do. She decides to go out and touch the whale. And for whatever reason in the story, she climbs on top of the whale and she holds onto the whale. For whatever reason, movie magic, the whale wakes up and it starts to swim out into the ocean. So, she saves the whale. In the process, all the villagers are going crazy. They're running after her and they're like, \"Let go of the whale.\" And she won't let go of the whale. And the whale goes underwater. And she's down there for a long time. And then they go after her with the boats and everything. And eventually her body floats up. Sad story. They do save her. And in that moment, the grandfather finally sees her for who she is. And forgives her for what her father had done. That's the story of a man transformed. We needed to see that. Because in ourselves, we seed ourselves in the character on the screen. Like we need to learn to love and move beyond what things look like, our prejudice and our ideas about that. That's how you tell a story. Does that make sense, everybody? Okay, you got that? Okay, great. Okay, that's storytelling. Okay? Are we good? You got some ideas? >> Yeah. >> Okay. What you need to do is you go on the internet and you look for formats. When you find something that works structurally, you have to understand and break it apart. Like, why does this work? They had a wide shot for the opening scene. There was a um what what is called a non sequitur, a random weird moment that really hooked me. And you get people involved in the story. Okay? There's a guy, I forget his name. Uh he's a young guy. I think he's American. He's white boy. And he goes out into poor parts of America or the world. Really poor parts. And he pretends to be homeless. If you've seen his content, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. He'll sit on the floor like this and he'll have dirty socks on. And he'll wait outside of a supermarket or something in a really poor part of town. And somebody will come by, usually a black person, he goes, \"Um, excuse me. Um, could you give me some money so I can buy a pair of shoes?\" And he goes, \"Ah.\" The person's like, \"Yes, what do you need?\" \"I just need a pair of shoes.\" And he goes, \"What's happened to your life?\" He goes, \"You know, I'm homeless. I'm just trying to figure things out.\" He goes, \"Wait right here. What shoe size are you?\" He goes into the store. He comes out. He gives him a pair of shoes. And he goes, \"I got you some water and I got you a sandwich.\" And the And the And the guy's like really touched. He goes, \"Why would you do this for me?\" He goes, \"You know what? I don't have a lot myself. I I can't even pay rent, but I know when somebody needs help, I'm going to help them.\" Like right now I'm like, And you go into the whole thing like, \"Don't do it, Chris. Just don't do it. It's just a video. I know it's a video.\" It's staged for me. I know. Stop. Stop. And I can't help myself. Okay? And they get into this whole dialogue. And he goes, \"You know what? I I'm not poor. I'm not homeless. I don't need this. Take this back.\" He goes, \"No, no, it's for you. It's for you.\" He goes, \"You know what? I was just waiting for some the first person to do a nice thing for me.\" He goes, \"You know what? Here. Here's a thousand dollars.\" And the man's like, \"No, no.\" You know? And they're often very religious. They're like, \"Oh, Jesus. I needed this money.\" They go through this whole thing. I'm like, \"Ah, pull it together.\" You [snorts] know, rocks and hammers. Rocks and hammers. I got this. Right? We can do this. And so all of a sudden they're I'm hooked into the story. And then he goes, \"You know what? Hold on. I got one more surprise for you.\" He has a blue duffel bag. Brings the duffel bag out. It's ten thousand dollars now. He goes, \"You know what? Are you a fan of the blah blah blah team?\" And he goes, \"Yes.\" He goes, \"You're going to have front row seats. I'm going to take you. You know? And you know
1what? We're going to go in this car. That's your car.\" It was like, \"It doesn't stop.\" >> [laughter] >> It doesn't stop. And I love this message because it is great for people to do random acts of generosity, random acts of kindness. So we so see so many negative things. This young man has raised more money for charity than any other content creator. It's amazing. So you have to find your story. And that's a format that all of you can use. There's a problem, there's expectations, and the stakes get higher and higher. I give you it back. Here's a thousand, here's 10,000, here's the car, here's the tickets to the favorite game that you've always wanted to go to. Actually, I bought you a house. It is amazing. Yes, he actually does crazy things. Isn't it amazing? And you know what happens? Companies give him money. So we talk about things like the attention economy. You guys know the attention economy? You know this? Yes, okay. If you don't know, just say I don't know. Attention economy, okay? I think there's something called the thank you economy. And I think it's cooler than the attention economy. Attention feels empty sometimes, but the thank you economy is you do good in the world with no expectations, and we the audience thank you for it by watching it, by supporting you. So when these videos get 10 million views, sometimes they get even more than that, a corporate company will come in like, \"We like what you do, young man, young lady. How much money do Oh, okay, Hyundai, you want to give us the car? Cool. Um Chicago Bulls tickets? Great.\" Isn't it amazing? We can just do good for other people, and because of the views via social media, we can build completely different kinds of businesses. I'll give you one more example. I I love to share this example. There's a series of videos that go around about people doing really humble things, like blue-collar stuff, not white-collar, blue-collar, like washing the car, mowing the lawn. Um what else do they do? Uh washing the rug. You seen these things? Carpet cleaners? So what they do is they go to a poor person and they mow the lawn and it's out of control. And they're working on for hours. Now, you think they're okay, how long did this young person work on mowing the lawn? Maybe 5 hours. At the rate in which blue collar work is paid, what do you think they get paid? 20 bucks an hour at most. So, he might have made 100 150 bucks for that day. But instead he helps someone, usually an elderly person, usually a poor person, he takes care of their lawn and the video gets 2 million views. And if you do the calculation of the CPM, that's thousands of dollars, not to mention the brand deals. So, he's not in the lawn mowing business. He's in the helping people business that corporations then pay for, that we pay for by watching. That is the thank you economy. I share this with you because many of you are locked into what you do and what you sell. But if you make a small pivot from what you do and what you sell, you can have a completely new business that's 100% aligned with who you are. And to me, that's the wealth that I want to have. To be paid to help people. Cuz I think I have the best job in the world. Yeah? You guys understand thank you economy? Okay. Beautiful. Let's have another question. Thank you. Let's do this. Another question. >> Hello. Hi. I do AI and software development and I have a huge challenge niching down. >> What's your challenge? >> I don't know what niche to pick. >> Have you tried? >> Yeah. I tried education because that was my previous business and it was pretty [snorts] terrible because most of coaches turns out they don't make enough money for my services. Okay. So, you tried education, it didn't work out? Yes. How long did you try it for? A few months. That's a good effort. >> [laughter] >> Are you married? >> Yes. >> Was it easy? >> No. >> How long did you try for? >> Three years and going. >> So, you really wanted her or him? >> Yes. >> No judgement. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, or they. Okay. Uh so, three years was a good time. How long would you have tried? >> Forever. >> Right, that's a good answer. Is she here? >> No. >> Okay. >> [laughter] >> Cuz I would say blink twice if you feel safe. Okay. I thought that was a lady I could get. Don't look at me. Okay, fine. She's not here. That's s
1ad. She didn't want to be here? >> She has a more successful business, so. >> Good catch, bro. Good catch. >> [laughter] >> He was running fast after her cuz she was running faster, but he eventually caught her. Right? >> Yeah. >> I think that's how tigers eat deer. They eventually get tired. >> [laughter] >> If you keep running. >> I like that. You know, a side note here, I have this theory. Are there any single men here? Raise your hand. Give it up for the single men. >> [clears throat] [laughter] >> Oh my god, that was so sad. It was like, single men. >> [laughter] >> Holy cow, no judgement. There's like five single guys here. Any single women here? Raise your hand. Let's hear it for the single women. Woo! Holy cow, hold on. Lower your hands. Boys, pay attention. There's way more of them than you. This is called a seller's market. Do you understand this? My gosh, are you getting hit on at the bar all the time? See, in America we have to try really hard. Here, you just stand. >> [laughter] >> No? You shower and you stand, that's all you need to do. Cuz there's like 200 to five. Is it true or not? Yeah? Ladies, oh my god, it's a tough job out there, huh? Welcome to our world. >> [laughter] >> You have to get a personality. You have to be charming, and you have to be successful. So, this guy will chase you. Okay. Well, okay, what were we talking about? Oh, 3 years and 3 months. Do you really want it? >> Yeah, for sure. >> So, why did you stop? Mhm. So, I suspect Okay, go ahead. Sorry. >> other niches where like the need is higher because if you're a coach and you have two or three clients, you're not thinking about automating and doing all that. >> Okay. All right. I mean, every [clears throat] time somebody tells me they want something and give up, my argument is you don't really want it. Because I want something, you cannot stop me. You know that expression, if you don't want to learn, you cannot be taught, but if you want to learn, no one can stop you? >> Yep. >> Okay, so some reason you don't want it that much. That's okay. That's okay, I'm not judging you. Okay? I just happen to have the next slide, it's called specialization. It just worked out this way. Okay. Most people suffer from the lack of clarity about who they serve. They try to serve too many people, and when you serve too many people, you serve no one. You serve nobody. So, we got to pick, and picking is kind of hard, and I'll talk about that later, right? But, specialization, in my opinion, now, feel free to argue with me. Some of you guys like to argue with me, and that's okay. I find that almost everybody that I know, with the exception of a very small percent, the more specialized they become, the more successful they become. There is, I believe now, not just correlation, but causation. Who here is a generalist and is doing really well, is just crushing it? Just a couple of people. And who is a specialist and is crushing it? Look around the room. Look around the room. There are I mean, there should be more than that. Maybe some Everyone else is in the middle. Okay? >> Yeah, I I have another business and I crush it because it's specialized. >> And what's your problem then? Is that a flex on us? You already got the girl. You already got the girl. >> No, like I want I want to do this thing because I resonate way more with it. It's just I I look at my other business, I see how well things work and how everything is has a process, but in here it's like super difficult to create it from scratch because I don't know >> Of course. >> who to focus. >> Yeah. Difficult things are worth having. Easy things are not worth pursuing. You pursued this woman for 3 years. She was difficult. Did it work out? >> Yep. >> You don't have to say that, but yes. The answer is yes, of course. Okay, [clears throat] so here's what we can do. You have a business that you're crushing it in. You have this other thing you want to do, it's called education. They're They don't have to be one either or. You can do both. So, you know that expression there's your 9:00 to 5:00 and there's your 5:00 to 9:00? Have you guys heard that? What you do [clears throat] for your money, 9:00 to 5:00. What you do for your soul, 5:00 to 9:00. You have more hours than you think. Do you have kids? >> No. >> Good. And keep it that way for a little bit. No, for real. Having children complicates everything. The cool thing about you and your wife or your partner is you can say, \"Honey, I need your support in this. I know y
1ou make a lot more money than me, so you understand. But I'm all for feminism. Is it okay if I be the wife for a little bit and just work on my personal thing? So, I'll do my part here, but I need this extra time to do this other thing. And I'm going to ask you for 2 years where I get to explore this cuz it's deep in my heart that I need to make this work. I'm going to make a lot of bad decisions along the way, but it's a learning process. Can I get your buy-in on this? What would she say to that? >> She already encourages me. >> What? >> She already encourages me. >> Oh, I thought you said she already divorced me. >> No, no, no. >> That was a pretty sad story. No wonder the long face. Okay, so she So why did you quit then? >> I I didn't. I'm still trying things. It's just I I feel I have this intuition that there's a way better niche than education or my automations. >> All right. Have you read the book The Dip by Seth Godin? >> Uh no. >> Okay, good. I've read it. I'll tell you all about the book right now. I'll tell you the whole book. And then you should buy the book to support authors and artists, okay? I'm not trying to take money from people. This is result. Uh this is effort. Okay, the longer the effort this is greater result. I believe this is effort, okay? In the beginning whenever you try something new, it's not a lot of effort and you get a lot of results. When you start to post on social media, in fact, the algorithm on most social platforms rewards you when you're new. Create a new account, you make a post, it it goes it goes and it goes. And it's pretty cool. And then it feels like you've been shadowbanned and all of a sudden it's like I'm not having a lot of fun anymore. And over time I'm just putting more and more effort and I'm getting less and less result. And it goes here. And in here Seth calls it the dip. This is the dip. This is fun. I'm a happy boy, happy girl. Everything's great. Down here it just feels like so much work and it's no longer fun. So what do we do? We quit. We start again. We pick a new hobby. What's your next business besides education? >> I teach people how to code and become programmers. >> So you're still teaching then? >> Yes. >> So that's working? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's pretend you said I became a chef. So Oh, it's so fun to cook. I'm making great dishes and Oh god, it's getting really hard again. It's getting really hard again. We quit. And Seth says we do this over and over again. We just quit all the time. So you know what? Every time you quit, you start over. Everybody Anybody here do this? Does this sound remotely Yeah, we're being honest with each other, right? Yeah. So, what he says is what we have to do is we have to push beyond the dip. I know this is not your question. I'm just going to use this as a way to talk, okay? I got you. Cuz I I see your eyes. Okay? So, he says here it's really hard, but all of a sudden there's this like hockey stick growth where you do this and it's like wah. And everybody dies here. Right before gold. Like that 3 ft from gold. Just 3 more ft and you would have found gold. >> Yeah, my first business I didn't make money for 2 years. And it's exactly like what you drew. >> Okay. And they're like, \"Woah, it's so hard.\" See, I like things that are difficult cuz it means there's less competition cuz everybody quits here. So, if I am just persistent and determined, I will get that result. And I've done this over and over again. I'll give you an example, okay? I'll get to your question eventually. Okay? Here's Here's the numbers if I can remember it. Okay. 2014, start YouTube, okay? Um during this time I think we're between 4 to 5 million dollars in revenue as a service design business called Blind. Okay? Initially, for the hardcore fans, the company was called The School. It was not called The Futur. And I was doing it with my business partner back then. I think that first year we made 17,000 dollars. 17K versus 4 and 1/2 million dollars. Year one, year two we made something like 48,000 dollars. Still not enough to hire anybody. This is barely enough to pay for lunch for the year. So, this is usually where people quit. They're done. But we keep sticking to it. So, by the third year I think we're at 150K. And I can only sort of remember this because every year we would grow by 3X. And 3X growth is wild. But if you only take into consideration the first year was so terrible. Right? So eventually the company becomes a $4 million company because we just keep doing this over and over again. Right? So this is you and your primary business. This is you and your secondary business. And you can do this. I've done this so many times. I'm not really talking about you right now. I'm just talking about everybody else. You want to get back to niching, we'll talk about niching. Okay? So the niching is People say it's so difficult to niche, and I'm going to show you how easy it is. If you trust me. Do you trust me? Will you do it? It's okay. I'll pretend like you said yes. Everybody ask the question no one wants to answer. Okay. Anybody here struggle with niching, picking a niche? Great. I have good news and I have even better news for you. Okay? I'll I'll first share the good news, okay? We're going to draw a graph like this. Okay? That's the graph. And these are dimensions, okay? People are like, \"I can't pick. I can't pick.\" I said, \"Well, would you rather work with men or women?\" And what would you say? Who said both? You're fired. You have to pick one or the other. When it's A or B, it's either A or B. It can't be, \"Well, let me think about it.\" Okay? So some people prefer to work with women, some people prefer to pick with men. But in theory, if we're split, not in this room, clearly 50/50, we've just eliminated half the market. This is pretty good. Now what we can do is we can say, \"Are they early in their career? Are they middle? Are they late in their career?\" Was they early? Was they middle? Are they late? And what would you say then? Both. Middle. Okay, so you you said men? You prefer men. What what what? Okay, late. You didn't you say middle? Pick one. Late. Okay, this is good. So, how old are they? Perfect. I love this. My my people. 40s and 50s, yes? Great. Serve us, please. Okay, so this is your your demographic now, okay? Notice how we've eliminated most of the market already. I've only asked two two questions. It's not that hard. Okay, what's the thing that makes the that's common to these old dudes? >> They don't know technology. >> Oh, screw you. I know technology. >> Sorry. >> [laughter] >> Some of them don't. We're Gen Xers. We should know technology. We grew up with some internet. Okay, so they're um technophiles? No, what are they? Uh what do we call these people? Not technophiles, that's the opposite. Neophytes. Okay, they're they're bad with tech, okay? And how do we know this? Ooh, this is good marker. Oh, it's so juicy. I love it. Bad tech. Okay, what else? >> They know they need tech to be more efficient in their business. >> What kind of business? >> Probably something more blue collarish. Not necessarily a internet-first business. >> Okay, I like this. Like roofers, electricians, that kind of stuff? >> Yeah. >> No, I don't believe you. That was a pregnant yes. What Tell me more. Blue collar what? Like give me an example. Yes? Give me an example. >> Yeah, service-based businesses. >> Like? >> Like yeah, plumbers, electricians. >> What I said before. >> Yeah. >> Did I convince you or you convinced yourself? Okay. >> me. >> Okay. He feels the heat. Plumber, electrician. This is great. How much money are they doing a year? In revenue. >> Seven figures. >> Give me a more specific number. >> Two two five. >> That's perfect. That that works for me. Two to five million dollars in revenue. Okay, so you can start to see now the market got really specific. Do they live in a specific region in the world? >> US. >> US. Where in the US? >> Texas. >> Okay. >> Pretty good place. No, for real. There's a lot of opportunities in Texas. Okay? All right. Okay. What problems do they have? Now we get into like solving their problems. So every morning they wake up and they're like, \"God, I just wish this problem would go away.\" What problems do they have? >> Speed to lead contact. >> Speed what? >> Speed to lead like how fast >> regular regular language here. Don't use marketing language. >> do you contact the lead once they inquire? >> Oh, I see. Okay. So they have So what do we call that? >> Responsiveness. >> Yep. >> Okay. So they have a challenge with responsiveness and how are they getting inquiries? >> Probably they have some online presence and Google Maps and that. >> Like email? >> Email, inquiry forms, website. >> Okay, email, website, stuff like that. It's perfect and this is ideally aligned to what you do, right? >> Yep. >> Okay. So this is how you pick a niche. You guys got that? It's not that hard. The problem is we just don't want to make decisions. We really don't. It's hard. A simple question of where would you like to eat sends us into a 30-minute discussion. Yeah? Okay, so what else do you need here to pick y
1our niche? So you do educational content for blue-collar people working in Texas doing between two to five million dollars. >> Yeah, it's You helped me a lot. >> I've helped you a lot? >> Yeah. >> What time? Shoot. CG Eagle, this is how you do it. Where are you? And he's gone. Okay. Anyways, so what we can do is we need to figure out our ICP, our ideal client profile. Okay? And a lot of people struggle with this and I'll just tell you some hacks to do this, okay? Think of the best client you've ever had in your life. They paid you a lot, they paid on time, they're easy to work with, they made decisions quickly, and there's a lot of them. Who are these people? Just look into your history. And make an educated guess. And here's what we do. Okay, I'm going to freestyle live prompt with you right now, okay? So you're going to go on Claude, don't use ChatGPT. Go on Claude and say, um uh I'll pretend I'm you. What's your name? >> Peter. >> Peter. Uh 36? >> 32. >> 32. Hey, um uh Claude, I'm 32, my name is Peter. I provide tech solutions for this specific demographic. And you describe it. I need help in defining my ideal client profile. Feel free to ask me a few questions before you make a suggestion. Be sure you check that there's enough potential customers in the market before you make this recommendation. See, the machinery knows all the language. It's much, much smarter than you in terms of its data repository. But when you activate certain keywords, it understands. But when you start using loose language, it doesn't know what to do. So sloppy input, sloppy output. Okay? So use this term. You don't even have to type in ideal client profile, you can just say ICP. It knows. And whatever it spits out, now use your human brain to decide, does this ring true? Does it survive the pressure test? I have to check to see if it's true or not. So sometimes it spits out something not good. I don't blame the machine, I blame you because you gave it poor input. You gave it conflicting data. You didn't ask it to ask you clarifying questions. We need to do that. Usually, I'm almost a one or two shot prompter because my prompts are very detailed and they're very specific. Language does matter. Okay? So, you describe it this way. And then you should get your ICP. Then, once you have an ideal client profile really clearly defined, you can say now, \"What problems do they have that they'd like to get rid of?\" And use the language that they would use, not the language of marketing. Cuz I want to hear it. So, they're going to use things like, \"I struggle with this. I hate this.\" Those are all their problems. Then you can even ask it, \"Rank, based on what you know, those problems from top highest to lowest in terms of how much pain it's causing them and how much they're willing to pay to make this problem go away.\" And what might surprise you is you offer none of those solutions. This is an opportunity. >> [music]",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPaVFBEIhI",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/FFPaVFBEIhI",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FFPaVFBEIhI/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:2715,duration_display:"45m",view_count:139374,published_at:"2026-08-29T13:00:26+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"",meta_description:"",status:"published",created_at:"2026-08-31T06:00:07.798575+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:07.782832+00:00",faq:$R[28]=[],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:8638,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"storytelling in marketing",secondary_keywords:$R[29]=["before and after story","niche selection strategy","attention economy vs thank you economy","ideal client profile"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[30]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[31]={id:"4c396c1f-d079-4e0c-ae74-aa287c555662",video_id:"RnJ02DGOaxw",title:"You Don't Need a Personal Brand. You Need an Offer.",slug:"you-dont-need-a-personal-brand-you-need-an-offer",topic_tag:"PERSONAL BRANDING",secondary_tags:$R[32]=["CONTENT CREATION","ENTREPRENEURSHIP","MINDSET"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do and guest Matt Gray discu
1ss building profitable personal brands by focusing on offer, shipping consistently, and mastering platform-specific content.",pull_quote:"You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[33]=[$R[34]={headline:"Ship Consistently, Not Perfectly",explanation:"Prioritize building the habit of publishing over achieving flawless output. Embrace the process of shipping, viewing it as a practice rather than a performance. This consistent action builds momentum and muscle for future growth."},$R[35]={headline:"Understand Your Ikigai and Offer",explanation:"Align your personal brand with your core purpose, identifying what you love, what you're good at, what the world needs, and what you can be paid for. This foundational clarity helps craft a sustainable, long-term offer that serves both you and your audience effectively."},$R[36]={headline:"Master Platform-Specific Tactics",explanation:"Each content platform has unique operating systems and audience expectations. Study outlier content and adapt your packaging, hooks, and formats to resonate with the specific algorithm and user behavior of each platform. This strategic approach maximizes reach and engagement."},$R[37]={headline:"Perfectionism Is an Avoidance Strategy",explanation:"The drive for perfection often masks a deeper fear of judgment or failure. Acknowledge this internal battle and seek support from trusted individuals or coaches to push past resistance and commit to consistent action. Real progress comes from iterative learning, not flawless beginnings."}],episode_summary:"\x3Cp>In an insightful conversation, Chris Do sits down with Matt Gray, an entrepreneur who has built and exited multiple companies, scaled audiences to millions, and now guides founders in building profitable personal brands through his program, \x3Cstrong>Founder OS\x3C/strong>. Gray's journey, marked by both significant professional success and profound personal transformation, offers a compelling perspective on the intertwined nature of self-mastery and entrepreneurial achievement. This discussion challenges conventional notions of personal branding, asserting that a compelling offer, not just visibility, is the true engine of growth.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Gray, who splits his time between Bali and Europe, reveals an 18-year career in business, exiting his first company at 24 and subsequently building three other profitable ventures with combined audiences of 14 million. He started his personal brand at 30, rapidly scaling it to three million people. His current focus is Founder OS, designed to help founders build profitable personal brands to drive organic content for their businesses.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>His early career was fraught with challenges, including operational bottlenecks that impacted his mental health and led to substance use. He initially sought external solutions, hoping a COO or head of ops would be a magic pill. However, repeated failures taught him a crucial lesson: \x3Cem>âI need to start wrapping my own head around this stuff.â\x3C/em> This meant understanding the intricate machinery of business, from clear responsibilities to workflow and the journey from awareness to transaction. His analogy is sharp: just as one gets screwed by a mechanic if ignorant about cars, one gets screwed in business if oblivious to its inner workings. \x3Ca href=\"/watch/build-brand-equity-buy-back-time-dan-martell\">This commitment to understanding the core mechanics of a business is a recurring theme explored in other Futur episodes on entrepreneurial success\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Unvarnished Truth of Personal Brand Growth\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Do acknowledges Gray's explosive growth, noting how rapidly his follower counts swelled to millions across platforms like X (formerly Twitter) and Instagram. He probes Gray for the lessons learned during this accelerated ascent.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Gray describes the genesis of his personal brand as messy and deeply personal. Eight years prior, he was lost, struggling with substances, and drinking heavily. A pivotal moment came after a relationship ended, prompting self-reflection and a desire for change. After numerous failed attempts to quit, he reached out to Andrew Huberman, a neuroscientist he had heard on podcasts. Unexpectedly, Huberman responded, offering health insights and referring him to Dr. Kyle Gillette for blood w
1ork.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The results were sobering: his testosterone levels, at 30, were critically low. This data point became a powerful motivator. He gamified sobriety, seeing it as a challenge to restore his vitality. He quit cold turkey and, with the guidance of a sobriety coach, read \x3Cem>The Artist's Way\x3C/em> by Julia Cameron.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This book introduced him to daily morning pages, a practice of free-writing three pages every morning. Initially daunted by writing, he found liberation in this private, unedited flow of thoughts. Through this practice, he realized a suppressed artistic side had been contributing to his struggles. \x3Cem>âThe artist in me was kind of being like muffled and suppressed.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Personal Reckoning:\x3C/strong> Acknowledging personal struggles and seeking help.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Data as Motivation:\x3C/strong> Using objective health metrics to drive behavioral change.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Creative Unearthing:\x3C/strong> Discovering a suppressed artistic side through consistent practice.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>After 90 days of self-discovery, he began sharing lessons and thoughts on X. His early content was unpolished, reflecting his morning journals. There was no grand plan, only an impulse to share and potentially help others. The positive feedback was a crucial reinforcer. This sparked an obsession with the craft of writing, leading him to study works like Stephen King's \x3Cem>On Writing\x3C/em> and Joseph Sugarman's \x3Cem>The Adweek Copywriting Handbook\x3C/em>. \x3Ca href=\"/watch/communication-frequencies-erwin-mcmanus\">The mastery of persuasive communication, as discussed in other episodes on communication and brand building, became central to his content strategy\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>From Soulful to System-Driven: Branding with Intention\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Do questions Gray's initial intentions: was it purely sharing, or was there an underlying motivation to build a brand for a program? Gray confirms his early approach was simply to share, but a significant inflection point came during a conference hosted by Eric Sue in LA. Chris Do, Alex Hormozi, and Cody Sanchez were among the speakers. Gray, then an audience member, observed the power of personal brands firsthand.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He realized that while he had built media companies for others, generating millions of content pieces and 14 million organic followers for his second business, Herb, he hadn't applied the same rigor to his own brand. This conference spurred him to move from the \x3Cem>âfarm leaguesâ\x3C/em> to \x3Cem>âgo proâ\x3C/em> with his personal brand, viewing it as a blend of art and sport.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>His content strategy emerged from listening intently to his audience. They sought systems, tactical advice, deep dives into content strategies for YouTube and lead generation, and guidance on brand positioning. Gray responded to these needs, creating what he initially called \x3Cem>Soulful Entrepreneur\x3C/em>, a six-week program that combined self-care with business growth.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This early program, which he describes as sounding like a yoga studio, served as a testing ground, much like a comedian honing bits. Feedback from 15 initial participants, gathered weekly, shaped its evolution. A mentor, Alex Lieberman of Morning Brew, suggested the name was \x3Cem>âwoowooâ\x3C/em> and advised leaning into the systems aspect. This resonated with Gray, leading to the rebranding as \x3Cstrong>Founder OS\x3C/strong>, focusing on the systems behind entrepreneurship: team building, structure, workflows, and strategy.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Audience-Led Development:\x3C/strong> Building content and offers based on direct audience feedback.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Iterative Refinement:\x3C/strong> Treating initial programs as testing grounds to refine and evolve offerings.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Strategic Rebranding:\x3C/strong> Aligning brand identity with a clearer, more marketable value proposition.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>Despite the rebrand, Gray clarifies that the \x3Cem>âsoulfulâ\x3C/em> aspect remains integral to his DNA. He views his niche as \x3Cstrong>Soulflow Entrepreneur\x3C/strong>, where systems create freedom, allowing the artistic, passionate self to flourish. Itâs a symbiotic relationship, where the freedom granted by effective systems allows for meaningful creation, a theme that resonates with \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-do-more-in-a-week-than-most-do-in-a-month\">productivity and personal development strategies\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Perfectionism Trap: Shipping Over Flawless Execution\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>The conversation pivots to a common creative barrier: the fear of shipping imperfect work. Do challenges a participant, Gil, on their struggle with perfectionism. Gray addresses this directly, stating that the reluctance is normal. He draws an analogy to starting at the gym: the initial goal isn't muscle gain or fat loss, but simply showing up consistently.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For content creation, it means understanding if you are \x3Cem>âcamera firstâ\x3C/em> or \x3Cem>âpen first.â\x3C/em> If writing, start with platforms like X or LinkedIn. If visual, begin with YouTube or short-form video. The key is to start with a medium that excites you, ensuring sustainability. Gray emphasizes: \x3Cem>âThe best content strategy is the one that you can stick with.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The first 90 days should be viewed as a \x3Cem>âspiritual exerciseâ\x3C/em> in shipping. Emotions, self-doubt, and comparisons will arise. Gray advises playing with these internal voices, seeing shipping as a practice, not a performance. He points out that the current content landscape values authenticity over polish. \x3Cem>âWe're actually living in a day and age right now where the more actually imperfect it is, where you can just feel the humanity and the authenticity behind it is like where humanity is at right now.â\x3C/em> His own team is experimenting with a second YouTube channel with no editing, prioritizing rawness.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do presses Gil on his admitted perfectionism, labeling it an \x3Cem>âavoidance strategy.â\x3C/em> He uses Gil's experience as a pianist: one doesn't achieve mastery on day one. Do highlights the gap between taste and skill. Creative people often have refined taste but lack the initial skill to match it, creating an unbearable gap. This sentiment echoes the wisdom shared in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/confidence-is-trust-not-a-feeling\">discussions on building confidence and overcoming creative blocks\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Commit to Practice:\x3C/strong> View content creation as a muscle to build, not a performance to ace.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Prioritize Learning Velocity:\x3C/strong> Focus on how quickly you can learn and iterate, not the initial outcome.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Reframe as Play:\x3C/strong> Shift perspective from content as performance to content as playful exploration.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Address Fear of Judgment:\x3C/strong> Understand that the opinions of a select few truly matter, and gain their support for your growth journey.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>Gray notes that even highly successful entrepreneurs grapple with these same fears when it comes to personal branding. He compares the journey to an Apollo mission: not a straight shot, but a constant process of correction. \x3Cem>â97% of success is about correction.â\x3C/em> This requires coaches or accountability partners who can ensure commitment despite limiting beliefs. The power of play, as offered by Gil, helps dissolve the fear of judgment. Do concludes with a powerful reframe: \x3Cem>âYou don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>From Shipping to Strategy: Ikigai and Business Models\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Once the habit of shipping is established, the next stage involves intentional strategy. Gray introduces the concept of \x3Cstrong>Ikigai\x3C/strong>, a Japanese philosophy for finding one's reason for being. This sweet spot exists at the intersection of:\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n \x3Cli>What you're great at.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>What you can be paid for.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>What the world needs.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>What you love to do.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>This exercise ensures that the personal brand built is both financially viable and personally fulfilling, sustainable for the long term. The greatest returns in personal branding, like any venture, come from compounding effort over time. Gray points out that successful entrepreneurs like Do, Hormozi, and Sanchez share a long-term mindset.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>After identifying your Ikigai, the next step is to align it with a suitable business model. Options range from digital products, software, online communities, to in-person masterminds. By combining Ikigai with a chosen business model, a tangible offer can be created. Gray suggests drafting a one-to-two-page offer, even using AI tools like ChatGPT for an initial draft, and then testing it with your nascent audience or existing network. \x3Ca href=\"/watch/proven-strategies-to-attract-ideal-clients\">This iterative approach to offer development aligns with strategies for client acquisition\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The goal is not just a quick buck, but building something enduring, a business you would want to run for decades. Gray's own Ikigai involves helping founders with systems, building distribution, traveling, viewing entrepreneurship as a
1soulful journey, and fostering communities.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Platform-Specific Tactics for Audience Growth\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Gray then dissects audience building on different platforms, emphasizing that each has its own \x3Cem>âoperating system.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>For \x3Cstrong>YouTube\x3C/strong>, 90% of success lies in \x3Cstrong>packaging\x3C/strong>: the idea, title, and thumbnail. Most people fail by making these afterthoughts. He advises starting with ideas, then researching effective titles and thumbnails using tools like \x3Ca href=\"https://oneof10.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">oneof10.com\x3C/a> to find outlier content that performs well. The video's first 30 seconds must fulfill the promise of the packaging, and a clear call to action (CTA) is essential, whether for a newsletter or business engagement. \x3Ca href=\"/watch/cracking-the-youtube-code-a-playbook-for-viral-ideas\">This approach to YouTube content is further detailed in other Futur discussions on viral content\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>LinkedIn\x3C/strong> success hinges on four aspects:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Long-form value:\x3C/strong> Provide substantial insights.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Amazing hooks:\x3C/strong> Captivate attention immediately, as David Ogilvy noted, \x3Cem>âYou've spent 80 cents on the dollar by the time people have read the headline.â\x3C/em> Tools like Taplo X (a Chrome extension) help identify outlier hooks.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Images:\x3C/strong>
1 Utilize infographics or carousels. Gray found success with simple hand-drawn notes shared daily.\x3C/li>\n \x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Clear CTA:\x3C/strong> Encourage reposts (LinkedIn's key metric), follows, or lead magnet sign-ups.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>On \x3Cstrong>X (Twitter)\x3C/strong>, consistency is paramount, with Gray posting twice daily. The platform, though volatile, is a hub for sharp ideas and copywriting. Success demands excellent ideas packaged effectively. For example, instead of stating an advice directly, frame it as \x3Cem>âmy father always instilled in me...â\x3C/em> Learning X hooks is crucial, as it is \x3Cem>âthe Olympics of copywriting.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Instagram\x3C/strong>, in Gray's experience over the past six months, thrives on \x3Cstrong>carousels\x3C/strong>. These swipeable square images, often concluding with a CTA, are highly effective for growth, even more so than daily Reels, which he also publishes. The formats and algorithms are dynamic, but common threads emerge: good ideas, studying platform outliers, and mastering hooks across all channels.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Offer: The Indispensable Core\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Gray and Do conclude that while personal brand visibility is important, it ultimately serves a greater purpose: to drive an offer. The true value of a personal brand is not just in follower counts, but in its ability to attract and convert. The journey from sharing personal insights to building a multi-million-dollar business is paved with consistent shipping, strategic alignment, and an unwavering focus on solving real problems for a defined audience.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>A personal brand is not an end in itself. It is a conduit. The constant pursuit of perfection and the fear of judgment are internal battles that prevent potential impact. The solution lies in a radical acceptance of imperfection, a commitment to learning, and the courage to put your work, and your offer, into the world.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Stop merely building an audience. Start building an offer that audience needs.\x3C/p>",transcript:"Matt Gray is my guest today and we're going to talk about how to build a profitable personal brand. I think we're going to get into his story and we want to start to unpack the things he's been able to do to help a lot of other people. Now, normally he speaks to I think you have a program called Founder OS that the average person there does what $2 to3 million a year and then you help build their personal brand and you have a lot of uh frameworks [music] and strategies and even AI tools to help them do that. We'll get into that in case you want to find out about that. But make sure you stick around. Let's get to know the man first. Okay, Matt, you look like a super chill guy who's got like very meditative vibes. Where are you before you do any of this? Like, who is Matt? >> Currently living in Bali, Indonesia, and then split my time there and then in Europe. Uh, typically in the Doommites in Italy, mountain biking and doing my thing there in the summer. And uh, yeah, I've been building businesses for about 18 years now. Um, exited a company that I first started when I was 21 and exited at 24. Um, since then I've built three other profitable companies, audiences of 14 million around those companies. Um, and when I was 30, started building my own personal brand. I've now scaled that to three million people and currently focus most on a company called Founder OS, which uh really helps founders build profitable personal brands to help them feed their businesses with organic content. So, in my own career, as an example, early on, I didn't know operations. Um, didn't know how to build systems. Um, I was the bottleneck in everything I did. It cost me like not just business success, but cost me like a lot of just like mental health struggle, addiction, all that kind of stuff. I thought for a while like I could just hire a COO or just hire a head of ops, like believing in this vibe of kind of there's some sort of magic pill, you know, like some some person I could bring on that would just finally s
1olve this issue for me. Um, and having tried that time after time after time, I finally kind of learned the lesson that I need to start wrapping my own head around this stuff, right? Wrapping my head around what does a great operation look like? How do you have clear responsibilities for people? What's the workflow when you're building maybe a media company? How do you drive people from awareness through to transaction? Right? You can't be oblivious to this stuff. You really got to understand the machine you're building. Um, the same way that people when they don't know much about a car bring it to a mechanic and can get screwed. You know, it's the same thing that happens to you in business if you don't understand the machine you're building, right? You're bound to get screwed. Um, and if you're planning to play the game for the long term, you know, most of us are 50 years, 100 years, what have you, you know, something's going to come up and that ignorance like, well, initially it can be bliss, you know, ends up becoming a real risk. I I've seen you grow really really fast in terms of millions of followers in a matter of like a year, a year and a half, two years, right? That is not something that we see every single day. And oftentimes people will send me your content like, \"What's Matt doing?\" I'm like, \"He's doing something good. I could tell he's doing it.\" What have you learned in the process of taking your account from nothing to like where you're at now? You have millions of followers and I just checked on X or Twitter. It's like you have 600,000. You have a lot of freaking followers on Twitter, which is not easy to do. Millions on on on Instagram. What did you figure out in this process? And then we'll we'll I want to set up the credentials and then we'll like get into like the tactics. I mean, I started my personal brand around 5 years ago. Uh the process to getting to that point uh was kind of actually quite messy. Uh so uh about eight years ago um was using substances, drinking too much. Um I had become kind of a little bit lost. Um and I had gotten out of a relationship. Um and had this opportunity to kind of like look myself in the mirror and go like, \"Okay, something's got to change.\" Um I had tried to kind of quit um 40 plus times um and knew I needed to get some help. And so I started looking at my phone, starting to think about who do I know, who can I reach out to? And I was uh probably listening to too many podcasts at this point in time. I was like, \"Okay, Huberman could help me.\" And so um I picked up Instagram uh you know, sent a voice note to Huberman 2 minutes long and sure enough the next morning um randomly didn't expect this. I have no relationship with him. He got back um sent a voice note and acknowledged the situation I was in. um kind of told me some of the health issues that were likely to come up if it continued. Um and then uh made a referral to a guy named Dr. Kyle Gillette and was like, \"Hey, you should go get blood work done with him. I think it'll help you understand the impact you're making on your body.\" And so sure enough, uh you know, few weeks later, had blood work done, realized that the substances I was using caused my testosterone to drop from 800 to 200 as a 30-year-old male, which is super super low. And so decided in that moment and something clicked. I think it was like this idea of almost gifying sobriety which for whatever reason worked for me which was like okay it's at this level now if I can just sober up maybe for a few months um I can get those levels back and then get back to a level of vitality. And so sure enough that's exactly what I did. Um I quit cold turkey, stopped drinking and other stuff. And around that time, I got like a kind of a sobriety coach essentially. And this individual recommended that I read the book The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. And so read the book. For those that don't know, it's this like kind of eight-week journey. Um there's like a 10-page reading. Um there's about 10 different prompts at the end of each chapter and you essentially just write three pages of morning pages every single morning when you first wake up. No social media, no nothing. Wake up, write your morning pages. This was a new habit for me. I had always thought of writing as really scary. Um, I had no idea really how to write that well and you didn't need to. This book was really liberating in that sense. You're just writing privately to yourself and just letting it flow. And so that's exactly what I did. And there was a lot coming out of me. And a re throughout that experience started to realize that I think part of what was going under underneath all these substances was that like the artist in me was kind of being like muffled um and suppressed um and I had just kind of gotten lost in building things and life and struggles or whatever um and hadn't given that artist much of a voice or an opportunity to like exist and create. After going through these 90 days, I just as an experiment was like a screw it. why don't I start sharing some of these different lessons and things on X at the time Twitter and it was messy. I was just putting stuff up there. Had no idea how to really do it all um how to look good or how to make it good or whatever. I was just sharing the same way I'd been sharing with myself these random thoughts um in these morning journals. And so I started sharing it along that kind of journey. It was messy at first. nothing was growing and I wasn't really in it for the growth. The whole thing was like just the process of just putting the stuff out there. Maybe I could help other people like me. The kind of creative expression of it all was interesting. Uh there was no grand master plan and people started to enjoy though the things that I was saying and there was a little bit of positive feedback which did feel great which was like a little bit reinfor
1cing to continue the journey. And along that way, I started to kind of become a little bit more obsessed with like just the craft of writing um like reading random books, whether it's on writing uh by Stephen King and uh you know other books like um the ade copywriting handbook by Joseph Sugarman. And then that brought me in a little bit more of a wormhole of just like wormholes do, right? of just looking at hooks and looking at ways of doing it and realized there's like a whole art and a craft behind this that was actually quite fascinating to me. And so I just was both learning the practice of expressing myself more and letting this artist kind of unleash while also like applying the tactics of copywriting to package it in ways that would travel online and that would be digestible and sharable by folks. And so that was kind of the genesis for then building this audience. Um, and it worked. Um, and on X grew, you know, to a 100,000 plus. And then just started literally taking that exact same content and just putting it onto LinkedIn. No different edits, no nothing new. Literally just putting it over there. And it actually started growing even faster. Um, LinkedIn apparently really likes the similar type content that's on X. And so that journey kind of continued and it was this gradual process of just iterating and putting myself out there. It was only about you know 14 months into that journey then that I started bringing it to short form video um Instagram and Tik Tok and YouTube shorts playing around with that looking like an idiot short form videos in the backyard of a Porto Escandido Mexico Airbnb I was staring staying at you know then about nearly 18 months into the journey when I started YouTube. So, it's been like a step-by-step um journey, but that's kind of how it all unfolded. >> Mhm. Was your intention just to share what you were learning at the time or was there another motivation in terms of building your brand so that you can get people into a program or something or coach them. >> Initially, it was really just sharing stuff. I figured, you know, we've learned these things, right, where it's like, you know, first- time founders focus on product, second time founders focus on distribution, right? Um and actually when I rewinded this period, this initial sharing on X period, um I actually had met you. Um I went to a uh sort of a conference hosted by Eric Sue um here in LA. Um you were one of the speakers there along with Hormosi and Cody Sanchez and some others. I was just in the audience. Um and there because I was curious actually a friend Steve from pray.com was like, \"Hey, you should come check this out. Come with me. Like it'd be fun.\" I was like, \"Screw it.\" So I actually flew from Toronto just for that. >> Wow. >> Um and uh and went to it and I was just there for the three days for this conference. Um and it was part of like one of those inflection moments in this whole journey because I started realizing I would was watching Hormosi on the stage and then watching Cody Sanchez and it started to become obvious in my own brain. And I was like, you know, Matt, you haven't built a personal brand, but you have been building media companies now for nearly a decade, having built Herb, my second business, to an audience of 14 million people organically and produced, you know, tens of thousands of pieces of content, not for me, but for that brand. And it felt really liberating to some extent to go and take my own brand that much more seriously. Kind of move from approaching it maybe more in the farm leagues and be like, \"Oh, no, let's go pro. Um, let's give this a shot.\" And so around that time was when I was like, \"Okay, I'm gonna really lean into this more. Um, and start viewing it almost like one part art and one part like a sport. Um, and just having fun with it all.\" Um, and the whole journey has really been like this more kind of falling in love with the process and the artistry behind it all. Hence, like a lot of the content there's not that I'm putting out. It's not there's rules around this stuff. I'm just doing what I enjoy putting out stuff I feel like needs to exist and then listening to the audience. And I feel like that's where a lot of the content strategy has come from is listening to folks. They wanted systems. They wanted things to be tactical. Um they wanted deep dives in things like content systems to grow on YouTube or they wanted content systems to go and drive more leads. They wanted to learn how they could go and you know nail their brand positioning or brand, you know, statements. And so it was just really kind of listening to these folks and then just responding and helping and serving these people. Um and that kind of compounding over time. And then sure enough, at some point about six months into the journey, I was like, I'm going to go and put together something. Let's try and just see if a bunch of people would get on six weeks of Zoom calls with me and learn a little bit more about my own approach to entrepreneurship and how I built companies. This kind of symbiotic relationship between taking care of yourself. At this point, I'd been, you know, maybe almost a year sober. and how when you take care of yourself, you know, it kind of helps your business flourish. I called the thing soulful entrepreneur. Um, sounded like a yoga studio. Um, sure enough, I got about 15 people in that from my audience and it served as this awesome kind of just testing ground. I felt kind of like a comedian testing their bits before like a Netflix special. Some things bombed, some things really caught on. And I just paid attention to those patterns, surveying people every week. what did you like most about what I just went through and what did you like the least and just responding to that and adjusting accordingly. And so did that a couple times and then that evolved into something more formal. I ended up listening to a few mentors, one of them, Alex Lieberman, founder of Morning Brew. I had been talking to him every other week and he's like, \"Matt, you know, this thing is a bit woowoo. Um, and the name, you know, again, sounds like a yoga studio. Uh, I like the systems aspect of what you do.\" And it wasn't so much that he said this or that his advice was like, you know, what really mattered. I think that most advice, like you got to obviously run it through your own filter. So when I ran it through the filter that I had, it just clicked with me. Like, yeah, the systems thing that you're saying you think I should lean into, that resonates with me. I I like that. And so that became more of sort of how I started building my brand is around the systems behind entrepreneurship. Helping folks build profitable personal brands, helping them do it in a way too that doesn't all come down to them and helping them build the right team, the structure, the workflows and the strategy behind it all to make it much more simple. >> Okay. Is that then the rebrand founder OS? >> Exactly. >> The systems operating system. >> Yeah. >> Okay. You know, you call it soulful entrepreneur and uh you live in Bali. You've got the hair for it. You got the vibes whenever I see you on a t-shirt. You're sweaty in some tropical environment. >> You do throw out yoga vibes. You're aware of that, right? >> Yeah. >> And even though you change the name, is that still a part of your DNA? >> Yeah. So, I mean, in some senses there's been a bit of a full circle kind of journey in this world going from like, okay, I should probably really niche down, you know, let's be known for this like systems guy stuff, right? And doing that and then kind of moving the sort of say soulful side of it to the side. um when people work with me or get to know me, there's no splitting these two things, right? Like I'm one part kind of system so that you can have the freedom that you need in life, but then one part like yeah, the soulful side of it, building something that you love that invigorates you and making sure that that artist within you is not ignored. And so yeah, these days I mean there's a much more symbiotic relationship between those two aspects. I would see my own personal niche like I have it written down on my own vision board as soulflow entrepreneur whereas like you know my presence online is more of this kind of like you know founder operating systems for founders looking to get to $5 million and beyond. >> Yeah. Well if your brand is what people say about you or I got feeling my buddy Neil Dingra who runs Ford Academy he's like oh you have Matt on. Isn't he that hippie guy? Like I never thought of you as a hippie guy but as soon as he said yeah he is the hippie guy isn't he? Maybe. I don't know. But now that we're talking about all this stuff, it's like, okay, there's there's that part to it. Okay, here's what I want to do now because I've teased it. I've promised people I don't even think we even need to tell people why they should care about brand because if you're this deep into this episode, I'm going to just make the assumption you do care about brand. And people are a reluctant to make stuff. Help us get over that part first. Let's just say like I love the idea. I've not done things because I have all this fear inside of me. Help me get over that and then we can move on to the next parts. I think how do you help people get over that? >> Yeah. So, I think it's kind of breaking it down like it's that's completely normal, right? Like anything any important thing you do in life, right? It's always like that nervous feeling before like starting to get that muscle going. And so I think of it like someone just starting to go to the gym, right? You don't need to worry about gaining a bunch of muscle or losing a bunch of fat initially. I think if I was advising someone to get fit, it's like let's make sure like for the next 90 days, you just walk through the gym door, right? And so the analogy then there on like the personal branding side is first off to know are you more of a camera first person or are you more of a pen first person, right? Does it excite you more to start writing with, you know, your words and pen then maybe get going on a platform like X or LinkedIn with a maybe a newsletter eventually? On the other side of things, if you're more comfortable on camera and that's what excites you, then get going on that direction. Maybe publishing a YouTube every month to start with and remembering along the way too that the best content strategy is the one that you can stick with. So don't try to go too hard in the paint too fast, right? Like one step at a time. From there, I think like for the first 90 days, view it as almost like a spiritual exercise of just getting going and building the muscle of shipping. Like, as you ship a YouTube video, emotions are going to come up, right? Oh my gosh, what are people going to think of this? Am I doing it right? Oh, mine doesn't look like Chris's do. Um, oh man, like what's my team going to think of this thing? Right? All of that stuff's going to come up. And I think it's playing with that voice in your head, right? And viewing it as a as a practice, right? The same way that when you go out for a night and you're dancing and you're not a dancer, it's a bit of a practice. Or the same way that, you know, when you're even hiring early in your company and it's nerve-wracking, you're not just not going to hire. You got to view it as a bit of a practice and a skill that you're picking up. It's a bit uncomfortable. And so, same thing. It's like you're likely watching this because you know that it's a valuable thing for attracting talent and driving cash flows and leads and you know serendipity and new opportunities in life. Like people know these things cuz it's the truth. And so not letting those voices creep in your head and stop you from actually shipping the thing and getting started. Realizing that no, that's part of the practice is that there's stuff going to come up. And so, you know, maybe it's having something on the wall where you're just tallying out just the consistency of it and just seeing it as don't worry about the quality of it. Don't worry about what people say. You're literally just doing this as an internal practice just to start shipping some stuff that you feel good about. >> Okay. I'm going to turn this over to our audience here. I what I hear you saying is let'
1s just first develop the habit of shipping. >> Yeah. and do it in a way that's sustainable and do it aligned around something that excites you. If we accept that as a critical first step, what would be stopping each and one of you from doing that? Do you have anything? If you do, let's talk about it so Matt can address it before we move on. What the next step is >> perfection. >> But what did he just say though? He said just get into the habit of shipping. >> Yeah. >> Not shipping perfectly, just shipping something. I have to come to terms with not shipping perfectly. >> There was no word about perfection. Can you just ship something? >> What I'm trying to explain is that that >> um perfectionism prevents me from shipping. It stops me from >> Fair enough then. Okay. Matt, how do you want to respond to that? >> Yeah. So, when people are building their brand, right, something that's going to come up is this idea of like, you know, is it good enough? Right. And perfectionism is something that can often creep into people's brains and stop them from just taking that step. U you know something I've been thinking about just a quick story on this is that you know sometimes this whole content game online it goes through like these different pendulums and the pendulum swings from a world of kind of super authentic off-the-cuff um imperfect content and then sometimes swings to like more polished content. In this day and age, you know, when we're looking at most content online, one of the first questions people have when they see something is, \"Was this created by AI, right?\" And that's the world we currently live in. You know, rewind five years ago during COVID, everyone's locked in. They start seeing Chris's content. They're like, \"Oh, he's got a Sure Mic and he's got an FX3.\" And they start getting that and then they're looking at color grades and they're going and they're nerding it out. And that was like a wave that we had that's now kind of coming to a halt, right? And so I would say first off to deal with like I think it's the right side of the brain that's more logical maybe getting it wrong is like we're actually living in a day and age right now where the more actually imperfect it is right where you can just feel the humanity and the authenticity behind it is like where humanity is at right now. They want to know it's you. Even with my own content that was polished for a sec. We're unwinding it. Um we just started a second YouTube channel. It's the rules are no editing, you know, off the cuff and just keep it real, keep it simple, right? And so that's that piece. Okay. On the other side of the perfectionism, you know, I first off, I get it, right? It's tricky. Um, I've been writing a book now for the last three years and wanting to ship this for a while. Um, and I've been viewing it though as more of an art project, not any business or anything. And so I'm just giving myself the time to just, you know, go through the fifth draft, go through the sixth draft. So I definitely understand perfectionism because I allow myself um to be a perfectionist in certain aspects of my life. This being kind of the one to be honest. That said, I think when you're going and doing the content side, the thing that's the most important is not where you start, it's the learning velocity. And I think that's true with most things in life. I think it's actually one of the most important things for us just as humans and founders to compete over the next 20 years. It's just how fast can you learn, right? Because if you can learn, you can iterate, you can build a better product, you can get results, you can get cash flows, you can reinvest that in areas of your company and also in your own lifestyle and continue to flourish. And so I think when you kind of begin this journey and as you're there realizing that if you can just have more of an insatiable appetite to just learn, then maybe it allows you to ship something because you're more obsessed with the learning you're going to get from it than the reaction or outcome you're going to get from it. Um the last thing I'll say on it too is that I've struggled with this again in many areas and I think it's also about a reframe, right? going from reframing things as this content is a performance where I need to show up and look a certain way to how can I approach this like play and it's about you know I'm just going to show up as I am um you know no no performance not trying to look good not trying to be perfect just like I am who I am I have things to share that can provide value for someone let's do it let's press play right and trying to just approach it and kind of loosen the grip grip on the whole experience. That's some things I have a note in my phone called filming checklist and sometimes when I'm overthinking it, I just read these points in it to kind of Okay, right. You're all good, Matt. Just turn the camera on and just speak to a friend. >> Yeah. So, Gil, you are a lawyer. You're also an artist. You play multiple instruments. >>
1 Piano and keyboard synthesizer. Okay. Um, did you get good at playing the piano on day one? >> No. >> Okay. So, if a young student wanted to learn how to play the piano, he goes, \"I don't want to start unless I can play perfectly the first time.\" How what would you say to them? >> No. No. I agree with you. It's It's just uh >> No, I'm I'm I'm asking you a real question. What would you say to them? A student says, \"I love the way you play and perform. >> It takes practice. It takes years. >> But I want to be perfect. I can't start playing. >> You can't be perfect on day one.\" So why does it make sense there but it doesn't make sense to you in your own life? >> It's it's an interesting question. It does not make sense. Sure. >> So I have a theory and you may not like me for saying it is I believe your perfectionism is an avoidance strategy. >> I agree with you 100%. >> Okay. So when you can talk to your therapist say why am I trying to avoid this? Because we know that everybody who's good at something, they started out really messy at the beginning and it's their persistence and how they practice that gets them there. And it's a really unrealistic for anybody to say, I'm going to be world class at something on day one. >> And to your point, if I may share for your audience, what you are saying is 100% true. Because in my own experience, the videos that I do, if you show it to uh to someone else, they would tell you it's above average. It's not bad what I'm doing. There there's something in me to try to avoid. Thank you. >> Yeah. And have you seen that Iraglass interview? He's does this American life. Irag Glass is the host and he goes, \"There's this thing about creativity.\" and he goes, \"I want to play for you a clip of me doing an interview.\" He's the one he hosts one of the most beloved podcasts, okay? Very popular podcasts, this American Life. And he plays it for for you and he's stuttering and stammering through it. There's a lot of ums and filler words in there. He goes, \"That was five years after starting.\" He goes, \"The problem with a lot of creative people is we have really great taste, but we don't have the skill. So we there's that the gap between your taste and your skill is enough for it to you to start. >> So he goes, I'm still not that good. And he's been doing this for decades. But people love it. So maybe we shouldn't use our own taste as the barometer for whether or not we're going to do something. Cuz often times, I don't know about you, when I'm creating something, I'm like, dang, it was so good in my head. It's just, how do I make this? And we just grind on it. either it becomes what we want or we settle and we learn something and the next time we're a little bit better. So, it's just this gap between your taste because in the world of music you're at the highest level and in the world of content you're above average and that is just unbearable gap that you just can't get over. So, if you can just let go of that, I think you're going to learn so much more. >> I'd love I'd love to hear your views on uh the fear of being judged. Okay, we can go there if you want. >> Yeah. >> I mean, let me ask you this question. The entrepreneurs that you work with that are part of the founder OS system that are doing two to3 million dollars a year, do they voice these same concerns? >> Yeah. I think the interesting thing about you all the stuff we brought up, right, it's like it doesn't matter whether you're that successful entrepreneur running a $400 million company or you're that person that's, you know, just got a school community to $100,000 a month or you're someone just beginning all this journey. The interesting thing is that when it comes to building a profitable personal brand, what I've noticed is that everyone's kind of a beginner, right? And as such, yeah, all this stuff um comes up. Um I think it's why too, this stuff is a skill, right? It's a craft and it's complicated and it's messy. You know, when you look at, you know, as an example, the first mission to the moon, I think it was like Apollo 13 maybe. Uh people think it was like a straight shot to the moon and then back to Earth, right? But when you actually look at the journey, the whole time it was wiggly like this, right? And so what's the lesson there, right? It's like 97% of success is about correction, right? Not about getting from here A to B, right? The journey of whether it's building a business, the journey of most relationships, the journey of personal branding. It's inherently kind of messy, right? And so how do you ensure that you're course correcting along the way? Well, you just brought up as an example, you know, you're a piano teacher or sorry, you play piano and if you were to teach someone piano or if we were to learn a new sport or any new skill or a new language, right, you would find a coach or an accountability partner of some sort. And there is a difference in my eyes between a therapist, a friend, a family member, and a coach or an accountability partner, right? someone that's like weekly or bi-weekly like really checking in and making sure that you did what you said you were going to do irregardless of maybe what came up or you're expressing these limiting beliefs and the perfectionism and the worries that come up um and being able to then like kind of work through it but then still commit right and I think that's inevitably what is needed I think in this area right and where people sometimes downplay because it can sometimes for some people be a natural thing and some People downplay it because, you know, they haven't done it much. So, they don't realize how much fear comes up sometimes just to press publish, but then they start to experience that fear and they realize, oh, damn, like now what? And they get really in their head. And I think if you can find someone to keep you accountable, you can find a coach, a consultant, whatever it is that's right for you, you're then able to externalize a bit of that and then have someone that's still making you actually move forward with it and hit the goals that you have in mind. >>
1 Wait, wait, before you do that, can I can I do one more thing and then you add >> Okay, you win. This is her show, man. >> Yeah, it is. And to your point, if I may add only one word, P L A Y, play. The power of play is so powerful. When you're playing, you go into the zone and you're creating and you're just flying. And that fear of judgment and being perfect dissolves. So that's the magic where it happens. So think about it. every time you're doing anything. Play play and you just lift off. Thank you. >> Okay. Um I want to acknowledge how scary it is to put out content because even in my me asking you about playing piano. When we practice, we have someone to teach us. It's very private. You do it in your own home or some small place. It's not on stage in front of 300 people. Could you imagine just learning scales in front of 300 people? And now I understand there's pain there. Okay. So that's a very real thing. So it's not just imagine. And I want to ask you this question. In your life, in your circle, people you know, friends, colleagues, family, how many people do you really care about their opinion? Can you put a number on it roughly of the people in your life that really matter to you that if they said, \"I I I think you're becoming someone I don't really like,\" that would actually affect you. How many people do you think that might be? Not very many. >> 12? >> Not even. >> Six. >> Three. >> Probably not. Yeah. Probably two, three. >> Two or three. >> So, we really only care about the opinions of two or three people. And And maybe by proxy when you put it out onto the internet, some idiot that you don't know is going to say something to you that you're going to take and carry with the weight of the two or three people as if they were saying it to you. Perhaps. My very practical thing for you is to talk to the three people and say, \"I'm going to go on an adventure. I'm not going to be very good at it, but I intend to be good over time, and your opinion means so much to me that I just need space to grow and fail without your condemnation and judgment because I know that'll really derail me. Could I get your permission to do this and invite you to like give me grace during this time?\" And if you could do that, that'd be fantastic. If you give me a support, that would mean even more. Could you do that? >> Sure. Yes. >> If you did that, what would they say? >> I'm I'm sure they would fully support me. >> They have to. >> Yes. >> You matter to them. They matter to you. >> So, if you did that and you have the support of the three people that matter the most to you, >> don't you think you can conquer the world that way? >> Absolutely. But in my case personally, I think I care about what uh the people not within my circle say about me than within my circle. >> But you only care about the opinions of two or three people. >> Within my circle, yes. But what my worry is about being judged by those who don't know me. >> What impact will they have on you? In my head not real impact, but in my head it does. >> How do you separate in your heart or your head? Is there a battle between those two or they the same? >> No, they're not the same. My my head is different from my heart. >> Would your heart care? >> No. >> So, would your head cares? Yes. The logical part cares. >> Correct. >> What is the logical part saying if you could give advice? >> That you need to be perfect. that you need to show you have no weak weaknesses. >> I thought we established that in the process of doing something new, it's very natural for it not to be perfect. There's no such thing as perfect beginnings, >> right? Yes. Yes. >> There's like um an expression, I hope I say it right, you don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great. So, you're trying to find the loophole in that expression. It seems way yes. >> You find Are you going to spend the rest of your life trying to find that loophole? >> No. That's the component. >> Do you believe that though? >> I do. I do. >> Okay. >> Your logic says this is not your heart by the way because this these are I don't know how to make heart arguments. I know how to make logic arguments. So twice now you've agreed if if a student was trying to learn to play the piano, you you're going to suck for a long time. Just deal with it. And your logic also says you have to start to be great. So when you say the logic part is not connecting, is it the logic part or is it an emotional part? I suspect it's more emotion than is logic, but that c
1ould just be my logical brain trying to explain that. >> Tyler, you want to say something? >> I think perhaps it's because he has a very big following who follows him. Like he's a celebrity musician, right? And now he's going to pivot to do something else. So I think that's he's already on the public stage, right? He has half a million Instagram. I think that's the difference between like a founder, right, Matt, that has no following and they just have to start. So they're like, \"Okay, I'll just start.\" But I think for you, right, do you think that's true? It's like you already have a big following. People know you as this really great pianist and musician and now you're pivoting to do something else and kind of maybe sucking at it. I'm I'm not saying you suck, but like in the beginning, right? So I think that's that's what I'm noticing. Maybe. >> Is it? I don't see it. No. >> Okay. Wait. Take the mic. Take the mic. >> Just giving him more reasons. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Don't open it. >> I'm joking. I'm joking. >> Thanks, Tyler. >> Thank you for the therapy session, by the way. I appreciate it. >> I don't think that that is it. It's not uh like I've been practicing law for a year. It's I'm into eight years of my practice now. And uh >> I think I'm I'm a great attorney. I I I'm not sure what it is, but what you last mentioned makes me think whether it's an emotional thing. >> Yeah. And I'm I'm no therapist, but almost all decisions are emotional. So, we think it's logic, but it's really hard, >> right? >> And it's harder to admit that, especially for guys, that it's emotional because they're like, \"Why am I being so emotional about this? Get over it.\" >> So, you and I, we can talk later and trying to figure this thing out. But, >> you know, we're not getting any younger any day uh every day. And I I know both of us sometimes our health is like reminds us of our mortality. >> So will you be 70 years old before you wake up and say today's a good day. >> You know you age like fine wine but still you don't want to do this when you're 70. Right. >> Absolutely right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's get into the next part. Okay. So we have to develop the habit of shipping imperfectly. Something doesn't have to be great. Let's say we get into that rhythm and we we start to feel the feelings of like yes, I can do things. I know this just in my own life. Every time I check off something off a list of a to-do list, it feels so freaking good. It didn't even matter if like wash the dishes done. It feels like I've accomplished something right. We hold oursel accountable. We have agency. We're doing things. Let's get into some of the the deeper tactics, the things that you have been able to help other entrepreneurs do and build their following. >> Yeah. So I think you know you've got the shipping muscle going you're starting to build things. >> I think the next stage that you want to be thinking about you know when you're just getting going is >> for me early on in my journey it was effective to kind of go and think about uh you know my icky guy. I come across this in a book this idea of you know your reason for being um this Japanese philosophy around really kind of like finding like what sets your soul on fire and like your calling in life. Um, and it kind of sits at the intersection of really thinking about what you're great at, what you can be paid for, what the world needs, and what you like really love to do. The kind of stuff that you lose track of time doing. If you're going to be on this journey, right, like any journey, right, whether it's building a business, a personal brand, the greatest returns are going to come from the long-term compounding of the thing, right? the best folks I've ever met in the space, whether it's yourself or or Horoszy or Cody Sanchez, and this is one of the biggest things I learned actually five years ago when we first met, was that I could tell the pattern in the one mindset that every single person had and they made decisions around it was they had a long-term mindset with this stuff. So, this icky guy exercise can be really effective because it helps you then make sure that you're building something that is going to make you money, that's going to be fun, and that you could see yourself doing for the long term. Um, I think it's important that then once you've done that exercise, right, you've gone and journaled maybe 10, 15 things in each of these four quadrants, right? And then started to pick up on some of the patterns in the middle, then you can start to form that as a more around your kind of initial content strategy, let's say, right? Right. So for me that's things like helping founders with systems, building distribution around founders and myself, you know, going and traveling the world, viewing entrepreneurship as a
1soulful journey, building communities. That's the stuff that sets my soul on fire. And I've essentially been doing that in some way, shape, or form for almost, you know, 18 years now. And so I'm building this audience and I'm building now a business too around just my own like natural passion and curiosity. and I'm building a business that I could do and will do until I die. And so I think that's a useful exercise because now we're starting to think about the longevity of this all and now that we've got comfortable with like the actual exercise of publishing daily or publishing consistently at whatever schedule makes sense. We're now starting to think about okay getting a little more intentional about everything. Similarly, on the business side of things, right, there's a lot of different business models out there. And at this stage, you may be thinking, well, I actually want to make sure that this is serving the financial side of it because I have ambitions to eventually have more of a team around me to get some help so I don't have to just do this all alone. I think it's looking at, you know, what business models make the most sense for what you're trying to do, right? Like, are you into building a digital product? Are you into building a software product? Do you want to have a online community? Do you want to have an in-person mastermind? Right? There's maybe one or two of these business models that are most attractive to you. And so at that stage, you can start to think about, okay, you've got maybe a business model that's interesting to you. Say it's a mastermind, as an example, and you are really into empowering female founders in LA. It's like, okay, well, now we can kind of mix this icky guy, right, with a business model that seems attractive to you. and kind of experiment with mashing these two things together and putting together just even initial Google doc offer, right? Just simply writing a one to two pager. Better yet, if you need some help with that, just enter it into chat tbt to get an initial draft and edit it. And then whether it's pulling people from the audience you're just o oh so humbly starting to build and also not being afraid of just hitting up people in your network. You know, nothing better than just looking at your phone contact list, some people that maybe you follow on Instagram, some folks on Twitter, wherever, and just getting on some calls, running that by them, and seeing if they're interested, right? Maybe none of them are, and good news is you learn and you refine it, and maybe some of them are, and you get your first customers, right? But I think that's a way of not just making money, which I think is e the easier thing. It's actually making sure that you're building something that you're going to want to do uh for 10 20 years. You know, the average business, I think, to get real successful can take like five to seven years. And so, not just focus on making a quick buck, but actually building something that's more enduring as I see that stage. Um, well, you were talking about this kind of sweet spot that exists between these four circles. That's the guy. And if you can f figure out your business model and your offer and the audience, the market you want to speak to. I that sounds like entrepreneur step. What about the personal branding part? How do you build an audience around? Let's just say I've identified that. Now, how how do I build an audience? >> Yeah. So, let's double click into like the different platforms you can build audiences on and maybe some of the different tactics there. So, every platform is going to have its own like operating system as to how you go and start building an audience on it. Okay? Okay. And so we can deep dive onto a bunch of that on YouTube as an example. The thing to understand when you're going and growing on YouTube is that 97 90% of the success on YouTube is your packaging, right? It's your idea, title, and thumbnail. And this is where most people screw up. They as they're trying to scale, they have an idea, they publish it, the title, thumbnail is an afterthought at the end, and it goes nowhere. You actually want to start with that, right? You want to start with really thinking about what's my what are a bunch of ideas I have and then when I think about titles for these ideas uh you know and researching titles that actually work on YouTube which you can use tools like you know oneof10.com for this which is the one that we use internally you can go and look at other outliers that exist on the platform which means you know different titles and thumbnails that have performed much better than a given channel's average amount of views. You can then kind of mash up your best ideas with outlier packaging to make sure that you start with the title and thumbnail before actually creating a given idea and thereby able to make sure that the first 30 seconds of the video actually fulfill the packaging of the video. Um that there's a clear structure to it that people understand whether it's five systems, four steps so people can follow it right and you get retention. And then ideally making sure as well that there's a good CTA in the video that leads people maybe to join, you know, your newsletter via lead magnet or go and maybe work with you in your business. And so that's kind of I think the 8020 of like the YouTube growth approach on LinkedIn um which is a platform we've grown to about 900,000 in the last 5 years. The key thing on LinkedIn is four aspects. Number one, making sure that you have long form value. Two is making sure that you have amazing hooks. And so to double click into amazing hooks, right? David Oggovie, the famous copywriter, said that you've spent 80 cents on the dollar by the time people have read the headline. And what that means is that you got to get people to read that first sentence, right? You're trying to stop the scroll. And so, how do you do that? The easiest way to think about doing that on LinkedIn, and this is kind of for every platform, you'll see the same pattern. You want to go and you want to actually understand the outliers on that platform. So on LinkedIn there's a similar tool to one of 10. It's called Taplo X. It's a Chrome extension whereby you can go and see the biggest outliers from the biggest creators. Again, these tools exist for every platform. And so essentially this pattern that I just want to double click into is what you're trying to do is you've got these great ideas around this thing that you love to talk about. You're trying to get smart now around what actually performs on the platform so I can package these ideas right to work. And the issue is when people are thinking about packaging, they think they can just wing it, but you can't, right? It's like we all have those friends, right, that will recommend restaurants, right? And you have that one friend maybe that you always trust their perspective, right? They say, \"Oh, there's this new amazing spot in Santa Monica. You got to check it out.\" And why is it that that friend's so good at figuring out that that spot in Santa Monica is actually a banger versus that other friend you have that recommends some spot and
1you're like, \"Yeah, sure. I mean, definitely not taking that wreck out.\" It's I think because they've really refined their pallet, right? Like they've probably gone to a bunch of spots. They've developed a maybe an exquisite sense of taste and they know now like a really really good spot from a bad spot. And so early on what you're trying to do on say LinkedIn and really all these platforms is I think develop a good pallet. And the best way to do that or one of the best ways to do it is to go and start looking at the best people and looking at their best content and starting to study the patterns like what are the hooks here? How have they structured their stuff? So we got hook, we got long form value, there's images as well, right? So I use a lot of infographics or carousels all even and what actually led to some of my most you know fastest growth on the platform was actually just handdrawing just a little bit of value on a pen and paper with an iPhone image every morning for about 20 minutes as again a little practice and then just sharing those. And then the fourth thing is then making sure that you obviously have a CTA in it, a call to action that leads people to repost it, which is the number one metric that LinkedIn is looking for. You're getting them to follow you and then they're again driving them to a lead magnet, which we can get into the whole lead magnet strategy there, I'm sure, in a second. On the X side of things, very similar, right? Every single day on X, I post at 8 am and at around 2 PM. Um, and the kind of content I'm posting are my best ideas and then making sure that we're also refining them based on what we're seeing work on the platform. X right now and it kind of has been this way for about the past year. It is a squirly platform. Um, love it. I think it has some of the best ideas on there. I think it's got the best copywriting in the world you can find on X. it's typically then what travels to other platforms from my observations. That said, growing on the platform right now is extremely hard. Um, it's just a tricky tricky platform. Lots of change, lots going on. And so the game there I think is changing a lot. I think inevitably though what always works on the platform is just really good ideas mixed with then the right sort of way of packaging it, right? So, you know, whether it's, you know, you can have an idea that's maybe a piece of advice that you got when you were younger, but maybe it's better to package that in a way that's like, you know, my father always instilled in me, you know, and then something something something. And that just being like a good way of leading into the value versus just starting with some story and people are already lost and they scroll by. So, it's learning the hooks on X is like the biggest part um because it's kind of like the Olympics of copywriting. And then on Instagram then when I look at the past uh six months of performance on my Instagram account that's like around 950K and again has grown to that over the last few years. They're all carousels. Carousels are a format where it's just you know a generally a square image that you can swipe through. Chris does an incredible job of these and oftentimes there's then a CTA at the end of it. And so you see a lot of reels being made. I still push a reel a day on the platform, but if we're looking to get up and going and growing on the platform, I think carousels are the format of the year so far. And all of this, like anything on these platforms, is subject to change, right? Because platforms evolve, algorithms change. The beautiful thing about some of the things I just laid out is that there are some commonalities between them all, right? All these platforms require you to have really good ideas. They require you to study what the best people on the platform are doing and really be good and intentional with your hooks. You know, whether it's your first line of your LinkedIn post, a subject line of an email, the title of a YouTube video, there are some commonalities here. Um, and you know, amidst all of these like little growth tactics we just went over, um, I think it's also again not losing sight of the fact that there's like the I, you know, doing things that you love, putting out stuff that you love, um, and, you know, balancing like the algo with like the art of it all. >> Yeah. I I think the theme across all these things is it usually begins with words and images. And if you can't get someone to consume the first part, you have zero chance of them consuming the last part. And so whatever the platform leads with is what you need to understand. >> Okay. Uh I I couldn't write fast enough. You mentioned something on LinkedIn and using an extension on Chrome called Tacio. >> Tapio. >> Tap. >> Yeah. T A P L I O X. There we go. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> And there's a similar tool again for X. There's something called Tweet Hunter X. Um that's the same thing. When you go to someone's profile on the right side, you see all their best posts ever. And so, same deal, you're kind of developing this exquisite understanding of like, okay, this is what performs best, right? So, you can imagine then the next time you write, you may see a swipe file you've made of like you've saved all your favorite stuff and all of that stuff has gotten a million views minimum. Well, now when you're going and trying to bring, you know, these seven habits that have really helped you over the last year of your life, you can look at how other people have written stuff like that and then leverage that as inspiration as to how you kind of go and format what you're about to go and put out there, which is going to help it kind of at least stand on the shoulders of giants that have put out great stuff and package in a way that helped it take flight online. one of your standout things and it's hard to miss if you've been on Instagram LinkedIn or U or X is these I would call them crazy infographics that look like you wrote. And I have some questions for you about that because they're really neat. Even the spacing, the design of them is really neat. And it got me to think, is Matt doing this? Is AI doing this? Is a designer doing this? And how many versions of this is he doing? So Matt, spill the tea. >> I was at like an artist retreat in Eselin Big Su in like I think it was October 2023. Um and after going and building random mosaics and weird artist stuff after that, you know, I got back to building on these platforms and at the time, you know, LinkedIn was one of those things. And so it was about January 2024 at this point. I just actually had been sharing again all my same stuff on X onto LinkedIn like I'd said and I was like okay well let's spice this up a bit. One one approach that I sometimes have on these platforms um is like the JLo approach. You know JLo she can act, she can sing and she can dance. Okay. >> Kind of >> kind of. [laughter] And so it's like [clears throat] this idea of like being a triple threat, r
1ight? And I think sometimes like that's an interesting way over time as you start to get more comfortable to kind of think about your content strategy and what makes you stand out, right? So I had really good hooks. I had great value in them, but there was like something missing. And so I was like, well, what if I just go and put a drawing together around this concept? I'll time it. I'll give myself like 25 minutes this morning to get this done and then take a photo off my iPhone, attach it to the thing, and put it live. Sure enough, did this for a week, things just absolutely caught fire. And so, like most things, when it starts to catch fire, well, I kind of stick with it, right? There's like some good signal there. And as long as you're enjoying it and you're having fun, like, you know, no harm, no foul. So, I did that for another around a 100 days. Okay. So, really putting in the work, really doing this. And again, approaching it more like I just got back from this artist retreat. When I was younger, I loved to draw, so I was kind of just getting back to just writing neatly. I mean, if you've ever seen me write anywhere, if I really want to try, I can write rather nicely. So, that's what I I was doing. It continued to work, continued to go, continued to grow. And then, like most things, when we're at that scale, it's time to delegate. At this stage, um I have uh a couple actually, they're uh they're married, um that run my social media, and Anna also has really neat handwriting. And so, Anna had been seeing these images for some time. and she said, \"Yeah, I could definitely take this over.\" Like, \"Beautiful.\" So, uh, that was that. I just explained the process to her, made a loom around it. She obviously had the whole bank of, uh, infographics I've been making up until that point. And now Anna is the one, um, going and creating all these. And I think she's done it for again around like a year and a half now. Okay. So, um, they're not AI generated, although most of those that you see online are. Um, these are just the good old old school handwriting. Um, and that's how we do it. Okay, this explains some things. And I'm going to pull Milo back into the conversation here. Have you seen his work before? No. Okay, that's cool. Don't worry about it. Because if I think I was there at the beginning, I'm assuming the things I've seen are not what Anna made, but what Matt made, but I don't know. But it's almost like a designer architect. like he's drawing charts and diagrams and illustrations and his writing is it's it's crazy because one of my friends was asking me like how's he doing? I was like I think he's just spending a lot of time making them because the spacing is good. There's not a widow or an orphan in in the writing of it. So, I say this because this is our zone of genius in design, but instead of using a computer, the analog way, it's like he kind of beats the AI question because I think we're we like things made by humans and we like imperfection, but not sloppy. And so there's something really beautiful and I I had not really I'm not saying he's the only person who's done that, but to to my mind he's one of the first people who had did these super intricate infographics made by hand that was so dense that blew up that blew up because I was thinking my presumption prior to that was this is too much information who wants to read this much right now. But I think you triggered something else which is the save function. So people weren't maybe consuming it on the spot. they would like it likely they would share it and then they would definitely save it because this is save worthy and I think you were hitting the algorithm real hard and it was just sharing it to more and more people. So I I I want people to think about that if your content is really good and it looks good, people will save it and that's the whole point of it. >> Yeah. I think something I've learned over time with these two because I've obviously got a lot of feedback on this specific format which is handwritten infographics is that I first off I my my feeling on it is that there's something psychological too just about like human writing has existed forever r
1ight it's like so primitive and so I think there's something like when you're scrolling LinkedIn as an example you're seeing like this polished thing and a job announcement and then this like beautifully designed Figma intentional perfect spacing thing and then you to see this weird lighting iPhone photo. Some of it's dark, some of it's bright. There's like a handmark here. There's ink there. Yes. It's decent writing, but there's something so catching to it also because it's this primitive form of, you know, it's handwriting. >> It's a pattern interrupt. >> Yeah. So, it's a pattern interrupt. Exactly. So, that's a big thing. And then, yeah, it hits the save function and that gets going. And then, weirdly enough, I've had so many people say um that they print these out daily um which is really interesting. So yeah, >> is that good? >> Yeah. So the they print these things um for value. And so I think that uh gets me thinking, you know, with your content. It's kind of knowing what like your signal metric is more than like the platform metrics. Like it's kind of sad in a way like what the platforms kind of like brainwash us to think sometimes, right? Like it's all about the likes and the comments and the views and all this stuff, right? versus to me like one of the things that jazzes me up the most I mean yeah if someone says they're printing off something I made like that's badass that's worth 10,000 views to me 100,000 views also like just getting a text like if I got a text from Chris saying like man that image was cool that to me is better than like a month of like high performing content and I have a lot of friends you know over the years that you know we'll message you something or I'll message them something when I see it and that matters that signal is way bigger than any of the noise that you see from just a bunch likes or comments. You know, my core metric these days is like if I can the core signal metric is essentially if I can see on a platform or a friend goes and texts me sorry and is like hey like we just shared this in our company Slack. It was maybe a post I had made or the team had made that they were sharing with the rest of their company. It's like that's the signal that we're after. We want a piece of content to be shared with 20 other people inside of Slack. And so kind of understanding maybe what that signal metric is for you beyond just like the platform growth metrics. >> Um the thing I wanted to say uh and and then give you opportunity to kind of hit any other thing that you think people miss a lot on personal brand building is what you're saying sounds exhaustive to people like okay so you're posting this many times you're doing this and you're writing hooks and people are like I didn't get into this business to be a social media person. I want to focus on my core business. How do you address that? >> Yeah. So, we're kind of getting to stage three here, right? Stage one was kind of going and being able to build up the muscle of shipping. Stage two is then starting to go and get, you know, pick a platform or two and learn the game of the platform and then also what like really sets your soul on fire and make sure that you're getting that early monetization going. The reason that stage two is important because as we get to stage three, right, yes, we're trying to get out of the stuff that we don't enjoy. And so stage three I would say is it's moving from being a personal brand to a personal media company. And so I think that wanting to build a personal brand long term actually in a sense is a bad idea. Okay. What you're really trying to do is view yourself as a media company. You're not trying to be a creator, right? That every day is waking up making things, thinking of ideas, and feeling like it's just this neverending treadmill, right? You want to be the CEO of a media company and have the right people underneath you and systems, right, that can help you go and build what you're trying to do so that you could take a week away or, you know, a month off eventually and come back and that thing is still cranking along. And so, how do you start to view yourself as this personal media company and build that profitable personal brand, right? Well, first off, obviously at that stage two aspect, you got to make sure that you have an offer that can scale beyond just like 15 20 customers, but be able to scale to hundreds um depending on the pricing to get you to, you know, real profit numbers per month. Let's just say 30k plus in profit per month. So, when we start making that profit, depending on that route we've gone, right, we've either gone camera first or we've gone writing first. On the camera first side, there's going to become a point probably that you want to bring on a social media manager and probably a video editor, right? So that you're not editing all your own stuff. You have more leverage around you. Someone going and creating the stuff that's ready to post on the given platform and then someone to go and handle the posting for you, right? So that you can get yourself out of the operations of it all and the workflows and be able to focus on basically being one part CEO of a business that has to keep scaling likely. and then have to show up, you know, maybe it's once a month, you know, for a few days to film a bunch of videos in a batch, you know, all at once, and then be able to have content now loaded up for the next 60 days and then have that handed off to your media team to then use all that for all the social media content you're going to be putting out. Um, similarly on the writing side, you may go hire a social writer to go and take some of the longer form content you have out there and package it for platforms like X, LinkedIn, carousels on Instagram and long form LinkedIn posts. And so that you don't need to worry about constantly writing all the time and scheduling stuff on platforms and replying to comments all the time. You have someone supporting you with all of that stuff. This stuff should get you back if you do it right. you know, we're talking like 30, 40, 60 hours a week. Um, that you're not doing that stuff. You're just the face of the thing. You're the one that has to show up maybe to shoot a video once a month or to maybe write and ideulate with your team, but then you have people taking care of the rest. So then you've got the profit. You kind of understand at least the minimum viable team structure to have this personal media company. Then you need to al
1so have like the systems behind it to make this level of leverage happen. And so a couple things there. Number one is something I talk to founders a lot about is having first off on the content side a bit of a content waterfall system. In my companies this idea of like waterfall is a verb, right? When we see a good piece of content that we've created, typically a long- form piece of content, whether it's a YouTube video, a Substack article, a long form LinkedIn post, we'll waterfall that content, meaning we'll take that pillar piece of content that, you know, that's done well, and we'll make sure it turns into about 20 plus other pieces of content, right? It may turn into a few different carousels on Instagram. We'll turn it into a few Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, Tik Tok videos. It may become a couple newsletter videos and also the formation of a YouTube uh video script in the coming weeks, right? So, we're trying to get as much bang for the buck of that kind of kernel of genius that went out into a given piece of content. And what this allows you to do is obviously get more output from a given piece of content, thereby not having to constantly just create and create and create, right? Because we want to do kind of less but better as we're scaling. And so the next aspect, we've got kind of the content side. That's like one core system. There's a lot there, but that's kind of a quick and dirty of it is then your nurture layer. Right? So you've got this audience growing. We need to actually go and own that audience, right? You don't want to go and rely on Zuck or on Musk, right? There's something called platform risk. At any point, you could just get rug pulled and you know, who knows what happens. The real value of building an audience when we talk about building a personal brand and eventually a personal media company is owning that audience. Any entrepreneur will tell you the most valuable asset in their business is their email list, right? something like 32x more of an ROI um than the next marketing channel in most founders business, right? Like it's your email list that you control. When you send out an email, 100% of people that you email get it, maybe 60% open it if you have a good strategy there. On social media, you post on X, maybe 2% of people see it. On Instagram, maybe 5%, right? So, you don't control that distribution. Then when you understand the value right of really owning and growing your own email list and it doesn't matter the platform Substack or you know Beehive or Kit doesn't matter right just something we then want to make sure that we're building that infrastru
1cture right there to go and grab that attention and convert it into emails. And this is where most people screw up. They start building an audience. They get that part down. they start have they have an offer that can sell, right? It's that middle layer of getting people to go from attention through to conversion that they screw up. One of the best strategies here is what I call contextual lead magnets, right? So, you have content going out now. You've maybe picked a few areas of say your icky guy that you're going to start creating around. So, say for me it's things like personal branding, content systems, and some personal stories. Let's say when I'm going and publishing content in Instagram that month, I'm talking about those three sorts of pillars, right? I may go and create a lead magnet that is uh say the content waterfall system. That's this powerful system I've made that people can learn about if they go and DM me on Instagram. when they DM me on Instagram, it then goes and there's automations in place like ManyHat that can allow you to go and give people a lead magnet in exchange for their email. And now you've brought that eyeball on Instagram into an email you now own that you can now engage with that person for the next three, five, 10 years versus, you know, maybe showing up on their feed every couple weeks on Instagram. So, it's that infrastru
1cture middle nurture layer that then leads you to the having the ability to eventually send out a weekly newsletter in there in the PS section, maybe mentioning the offer that you've created, the business you have, the product, the service, whatever, and start to actually drive leads to your business, which leads to the third layer, which is then monetizing. And obviously, we're trying to build a profitable personal brand here. And over time, I think the most important metric when you're building a profitable personal brand is essentially like your profit per piece of content, right? Cash flow is king in any business, right? It's the lifeblood of a business. And as you scale, as you build this media team around you, as you have maybe fancy studios and lighting, you want to make sure that you've got really great cash flow coming in. And thereby the content that you're creating is driven around, you know, what really your dream customers want. So I think when you start to kind of see more cash coming in the door, one thing I like to do, you have more customers, survey these people, right? Asking them, you know, what is it? What's your biggest goal this year, right? Um, you know, what is your uh biggest challenge right now? Um, what's keeping you up at 2 am? And if I were to solve anything for you this year, what would be the number one thing you would want my help with? So now maybe you're going to your top customers. Maybe these people are paying you $10,000 a year, maybe 5,000, maybe 80,000, right? Depending on your business. Well, similar fish swim together, right? So these people that have paid you a lot of money, let's just say 10 to 20 of these survey responses, that's gold inside of those responses, right? Because they're telling you what they want to see more of. And if you can serve those fears or serve those wants, desires, dreams in a really, really solid way, you're likely to go attract more people like them. If you need even further help coming up with ideas off that, you could simply, you know, use type form, download the results, upload them to chat GBT, and ask it to help you come up with ideas to serve this market. And so what we're trying to do essentially is make sure that we're building content around yes, what we want, but also making sure that we're being conscious of what's actually bringing in cash flows. Because as I've looked at the patterns here, and I've looked at this across 18,000 founders that we've helped with just this stuff, the pattern that's oftenimes obvious but counterintuitive initially is that essentially it's not the stuff that gets the most views that makes you the most cash. Um, oftentimes it's stuff that you wouldn't expect that doesn't get that many views that's actually like the biggest bread winner. And so being able to measure that over time, you know, is really important and paying attention to like the most important thing, which typically in these brands, I think, is cash flow. >> Great. I think you laid it all out for us. With these entrepreneurs that you work with inside Founder OS, where does it usually break for them? Yeah, the area that breaks most often um is I mean folks um don't have the structure in place for their team. They don't know who to hire and they don't know when they've hired someone the rhythm by which they kind of delegate with this person, how to onboard them and the rhythms that they should be running in their content team. What we help with there and to kind of help everyone in the audience is first off, you need to make sure that you're not guessing at what someone should do when they're coming on board, right? Like you need to have a really tight onboarding as to what you expect from someone in the first like 30, 60, 90 days of working with them, right? Um what tasks you specifically need them to do? Um and I don't think you should be trusting people's taste out the gate. That's [clears throat] my own perspective, right? You should be laying out what you do, how you work, get them to execute the task, get them to prove themselves before you start, you know, really requiring them maybe to kind of come up with some crazy new ideas or reinvent the wheel. Um, too many foun
1ders bring people on with vague job descriptions um and kind of bring them on and tell them to figure out figure it out and it ends up just failing. And so getting your onboarding right and then writing your job descriptions and what you expect out of the role is key so that the job descriptions as well are not vague. You've got your values in there, what 30, 60, 90day success metrics look like. So you're bringing the right people on with the right expectations and then ensuring they hit the ground running. Um and then along the way you know obviously when you brought them on as well like do you have the right meeting cadances going on board? How do you run those meetings? Um, so that you're actually, you know, running a tight team versus things being all over the place and quickly feeling like you got to make some tough decisions and change some things. >> Perfect. Before we move on to what Tyler wants to talk about, is there anything that you guys want to ask Matt about this this um the different four phases? >> Three. Yeah. >> Three. >> Yeah. Content, nurture, or monetize. I want to take a step back because I think the part that gets me and a lot of the people that I work with is getting in your head about views. I really like what you just said about the money, but how do you keep that mindset? It's not just about the views. Good things can happen even when the views are low. And also just that long-term mentality, the marathon, not a sprint way of going about content. I'm just going to be like yeah real honest on like about this part. So there's a documentary I watched about six years ago called Icon and it's about Carl Icon um the famous investor um at one point I think he owned about 12% of Apple um and it's a awesome documentary to go check out and uh you know he's this old kind of keragin you know of a guy about 88 years old in this documentary loves what he does though and he's amazing at it. Um, and you know, he has this pillow um, in his office and he's just casually talking to the camera, but you can't help but notice what's on this pillow. Um, and it just says um, happiness is positive cash flow. And >> when I study a lot of people that are successful, there's another podcast I love called Founders where it just talks about some of the most successful founders of all time. The thing that you can't help but notice is that like yes, you can be an artist and you can build great products and you can do crazy things, right? But like the business runs off of cash. And so at least as I'm building businesses and when I'm talking to other founders about it, the one thing I'm oftentimes trying to just remind people of is like go and get the money, right? And it doesn't mean to go and get the money and then be salesy and then be weird or short-term thinking. It's not that. At least how I see it at all, right? It's about abundance thinking, right? Like you can have a world where you get the views, you get the cash, you have a badass team, you have fun, it's play, you love your customer, like you can have it all, right? It's not an or conversation. You can be and about how you live your life. And so when it comes then to, you know, how do you get views out of your brain and focus on the cash? I mean, I just at least come down to like like don't you want the money? like what do the views do for you? Right? Um you're going to go and spend time on say a Friday and go and make some content and you know that maybe when you look at your schedule, you really wish that you could also make a hire that would get you out of a couple more things in your company. A chief of staff maybe to handle your calendar. Maybe you want to hire another video editor to help you get out of some more of the, you know, stuff there, right? These people, they cost money, right? And so why not go and gain leverage with a given video by focusing it around something that can actually both be fun and serve your customers and make you money. It's not a sacrifice here. You can have it all and then thereby make cash, invest that in a great team, get more of your time back, and make more great that's also abundant in these ways. >> Do you find yourself iterating on what you find fun at different parts of things? Yeah. So, in terms of like when I approach fun, I think one of the people online that I most admire in this kind of area is Tim Ferris. Um, he's the person that inspired me to get into entrepreneurship 20
1years ago. And I think when I look at Tim Ferrris, one thing that stands out, at least in my awareness, is that he built a brand around his own curiosity. It's really in a sense it's not like a niche in the way that we would typically think about it like oh targeting $3 million a year software founders. Instead what I think he owns is a bit of a psychographic you know the kind of person that's like looking to grow looking to values lifestyle design wants to take care of their health but also try the new things and be a bit of a guinea pig. He's kind of own he owns that space and in that sense it can continue to kind of grow and morph with just his own curiosities. And so when I think about building my brand and I encourage founders to kind of do this too. I think it's the beauty of building something around more your icky guy is that it also can just evolve with what you love because you attract people that resonate not with like some core niche you have per se. They resonate with more of like a core identity, right? And you know, for me, that's founders, as an example, that want to be able to travel and also enjoy taking care of their health and want to have abundance in their lives and spend time with their family, but also enjoy making an amazing cash flowing business. They're high growth, but also intentional. It doesn't necessarily come into like a specific niche. It's a bit of a psychoraphic. And so, I think in that sense, I've built something too that I can keep on pursuing my own passions. you know, recently, as an example, made a video where I was just in the Doommites, sitting on a rock while on a hike, and I just put the tripod down and just pressed play and just talked about how I think relaxation is important to success. Um, and it was mixing kind of a fun part of my life with just pressing play and not really overthinking it. So, um, yeah, that's how I approach it. Hope that makes sense. So you talked about content waterfall system, a nurture layer, monetization. That's where I have no clue. Could you deconstruct that a little bit for us? What do you mean by monetization? Do you mean when I post things, I get sponsors and they pay me? Do you mean uh I go after uh venture capitals to get money from them? Can you please shed more light about what do you mean by monetization? That's something that's totally abstract for me. Thank you. >> All right. >> Spoken like a true creative, by the way. >> Yeah, I love it. >> You went over this and the fact that you asked that question is super fascinating to me, but fantastic for asking. >> Yeah, I love it. Okay, so you know, the monetization layer, right? Like the the pot of gold, the gold mine, like we're trying to crack the code on this, right? And yes, it can be like the trickiest layer for folks, especially, you know, creatives oftentimes that, you know, it's really scary asking for money. And I, you know, Chris has some unbelievable content um around that. I know a lot of the creatives um I've spoken with always refer back to some of Chris's amazing videos on that on that front. But to give this a shot, I think I definitely don't recommend that it's ad dollars that you're relying on. Although that's fine. Um I think that a purely adbased model is what I'd call like more of a creator than a founder. Okay? And there's nothing wrong with any of these things. Um but creators typically make a business based on views where I see founders build a business based on some sort of offer that they have right and so then the question becomes okay well what's your offer right and I think that's where it comes down to what is it that you want to deliver right so an offer is essentially just something that you're delivering to someone that they want to buy at a certain price so the most simplistic way to think about this at least that I think about is we need to go and create a one or twopage Google doc that is a thing that you are selling right and so are you selling a course are you selling a mastermind are you selling maybe it's a SAS tool that you're going to eventually build whatever we need to at least first document like what is the thing and contrary to what most people tell you I think you can sell a lot of things off of a Google doc initially. You can keep it simple. A Google doc and a Stripe link can work wonders at least to get you to your first 15 customers. Okay, why 15 customers? Why did I bring this up? My brother, who's a product manager and now like a chief product off officer of a company? I don't know
1whether this is like real news or this is fake news, but we're going to go run with it. is um he told me years ago that 15 customers is product market fit. And to me that really settled in my brain. I was like okay you just need 15 people, right? I think that's where something sort of starts to transition from like more of like a hobby to then like an offer to like no you have a business now, right? You have something that you sold to 15 people. This is real now and now we can start to scale this thing, right? You sell 15 people, you can get to your hundred, you may even get to a thousand, right? So, simply documenting the offer, getting it in front of people, trying to get those first 15 people. I think that's like layer one of monetization, right? Layer two, as we start to now scale it up more, is like that offer becomes a landing page on your website. It may have a video sales letter attached to it as well that allows people to learn more about what you're doing via video and then copy around what that offer is. If it's something that people can buy immediately, maybe that's under $2,000, they can just click a link to buy and check out with Stripe or whatever payment layer you want to use and that's that. If it's above $2,000, it may be considered what's called a high ticket product and thereby the typical way of selling that is on a sales call. And so peo
1ple would then go and click instead of a buy now button, maybe it's an apply link to work with you and they'd click that link, maybe fill out a few questions on their stage and what they're looking for and whether it's right for them or right, you know, what you have is right for them or not. And then either if they qualify, get on a call with you or eventually maybe a salesperson that you hire. And if they don't qualify, you could say that or you could actually go and sell them something that's lower ticket that is right for them. And so it's kind of that layer that we're talking about in monetization. >> So Mila, I'm going to help you. Okay. >> Because I know a lot about her. Yeah. So your offer could be uh I'm going to help you to get into it could be like a portfolio workshop >> where you're going to get high school students who want to go to art center or Otis or one of these private art schools. And for $4 or $5,000 over the course of four weeks, you're going to review the portfolio. you have a system in place, you have a framework, you'll do some some video like asynchronous courses and you'll do some some uh personal feedback and critique and that's your offer. So, I think when he said offer at the beginning of this thing that just went right over your head, you have to have something you're going to sell or do for to for people. And it could be oneonone, it could be one to many, it could be many to many, whatever it is. You understand that part? >> Okay. What does that mean? Organically, >> can you take the mic? Sorry. >> I am doing the portfolio workshop organically, meaning people are reaching out to me and they're asking me if they could do a workshop with me oneon one. >> So, when you say organically, organically, you mean passively, not asking for it. >> Correct? >> Let's use the right words. So, now we have to be active and asking for it and creating a sales page or an offer doc. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you understand when he says like just do a sales page or sales sheet on Google Docs. That's the ugliest, dirtiest version of this. You don't even need a website for this. So, what you would do is like say for example, you because I know so much about you. You can say, \"Okay, here's one of my students work. Here's how you make it better.\" And at the end of that piece of content, you can say, \"Hey, uh, I I have I can help your child get into Art Center. Click on this link or say this word and I'll DM you the link.\" They go to that dock and the doc says whatever it says and then they can either pay you or jump on a sales call with you and that's how you would do it. That's the monetization layer you're missing. So many creative people have a problem asking for work. They really just rely on word of mouth advertising >> and so that's very passive and that's why we can't control that. It comes and it goes and we just like okay it's feast and famine all the time right you know. Yeah. So you you build a system around it so you can get more consistent lead genen deal flow cash flow. >> Yeah. In a sense like to relate this to a quick analogy, right? It's like you have like a piece of real estate you bought that could maybe one day be an amazing restaurant, right? And people know that you're a great chef. So they see you around this restaurant, but there's no menu and they see you, they know you're an amazing chef. So, you have some people sometimes pass by and go, \"Hey, like you going to serve anything or anything? Is there a way that I could like just get a meal with my wife with you? Like, I I I know you're legit.\" That's what you're saying is like organic, right? You have people kind of coming by and being like, \"Hey, like I know you're legit. Like, I'd love to do whatever.\" Or they're getting referred to you. What I'm proposing with this offer thing to bring it down to this analogy is like put a menu outside, right? Put a sign on the wall like set the tables, right? so that people can walk by, see a menu like any restaurant we'd go to. This is interesting. I'd like to work with you or I'd like to eat this. And then they sit down and you've got your customers, right? And so your offer is like your menu, right? You need to start giving people a way to understand how they could work with you because there's a hell of a lot more organic people that are walking by. They're looking at the sign. There's no menu outside and they're just walking on by. And now you're able to start capturing more of these customers. And then eventually as you start doing that, you know, at this digital restaurant, you eventually have a person that's actually outside as well and they're near the menu. And as people pass by, they look at the menu and they're kind of curious. But then they start walk by. They're like, \"Whoa, whoa. You want to eat here tonight?\" They want to You have any questions? Oh, yeah. Is it, you know, is it gluten-free? Yeah, we got a gluten-free menu. Come on in. Yeah. Okay. Oh, you know, I I only eat fish. Yeah, we got sea bass. Come on in. You know, that's your first salesperson, right? Right? So now your salesperson, you know, has the offer and they can sell it for you. The same way the person outside your restaurant has a sign, has table set and a menu there, you can start saying, \"Yeah, we serve this, we don't serve that.\" And can start pass, you know, getting even more of these organic folks in. So it's great and it's for those creators out there that have that organic traction as you're speaking about and are getting those referrals and are getting that thing you beautiful. You do have product market fit. You have a business, right? And so imagine the potential if we can just now put that offer out there as a landing page on your website as something you've going gone and documented somehow so that more and more people could discover you be
1cause right now you're hiding. Yeah. Okay. You good? >> I also inspire >> That's amazing. Okay. I'm glad you said that to camera. >> It's okay. It's okay. Don't worry. Don't Don't worry about it. We're good. Well, so to draw this string all the way through, you know, I do with a lot of creators who interestingly are startup founders, but they actually have uh something that most founders don't have, right? They don't have a product. They have the organic reach, but they don't have a product. So, I often have to ask creators, what is the pain point that most of your audience suffers from? And so, we do this, you know, exercise of like, what's the pain point? So for me, right, I I'm my channel is about servicing creators. At first, I thought the pain point was copyright strikes, brand deal, you know, contract provisions. But when I started doing the M&A work and working with creators on exits, I realized that most YouTubers and creators want to get off the hamster wheel. They need to have the product. They need to monetize. And so really asking your audience, doing the surveys, asking them, you know, I did the scorecard for the $und00 million video and I asked them, \"What's your pain point? What do you want?\" And they're like, \"I want off this hamster wheel.\" So that means I need a product and I need to monetize, right? Because they're so relying on AdSense and brand deals and that if it goes if if they get kicked off of YouTube, then they're done. And I love what you said, Matt. You know, I was in a room with 10 huge YouTubers a couple months ago, all 10 million plus. I asked all of them, \"How many of you have an email list?\" Only one person raised their hand. It's terrifying. And I I said to them, \"So, if your channel goes away, you have no way to access your 10 million plus subscribers, right?\" Um, so one other question I had for you because this is something that a lot of founders um struggle with is I think my favorite phrase right now is capital is very easy to raise. Human capital is very hard to raise. A lot of creators and founders have a real hard time finding the best talent, right? So when you work with founders, are you actually helping them hire too? And where do you look for those, you know, people for them? So yeah, inside of Founder S, we help folks hire anything from chief of staffs to social writers to video editors to social managers. Um, and so yeah, we have a whole kind of vetted talent network that way. What I tell founders though in general is that number one, I mean, if you're building a personal brand, um, no better people to go hire from than ideally like putting it out there to your audience, right? I think about 85% of my team has come inbound um from me putting out messaging that we're hiring certain roles um and then they were really solid and we brought them on board. And the beautiful thing is when with those folks what you typically find is like they're already on board your values. They've been following you for some time. There's like an aspect of like cultural onboarding that's just happened by nature of them following you online. Um, so typically depending on your offers and your company and all that, you know, it can be a really good hotbed for A+ talent. The second thing is what I've always noticed is like A players hang out with other A players. And so when you have a role that's open, it's really good to have a list of like 30, 40 maybe friends, contacts, acquaintances, whatever that you can go and just even text or email and let them know that you have the role open. Those folks don't need to be doing what you're hiring for. Like, you don't need to go message 40 A player social media managers to find a social media manager, right? Just go literally email or I like to text, you know, just a bunch of other really solid folks I know, right, that, you know, are really good at what they do. they're craftsman there or they have good taste or um you know they're just really solid because maybe it's their sister, a cousin, someone they were at dinner with last night that they vetted and they were like, \"Oh, actually, you know
1what? This person I know does that.\" And you know that they have solid judgment, solid intuition for it that can potentially bubble up um some really solid potential hires. And so that's how on a lot of teams, you know, my team at Founder Rest is approximately 30 people now. A lot of those hires start to come just from their friends, right? Because great people hang out with other great people. >> How many people you got right now >> at the team? >> Yeah. >> 30 at Founder OS and about 30 at Herb. >> And 30 what? >> 30 at Herb, the other company I run. >> Okay. All right. >> So like over 60. >> Yeah. Okay. Cool. >> Tyler, your question before was something else. Did you give up on that question or No, >> I do need a social media manager, by the way. >> But that's not your question [laughter] either. >> Sorry. Um, no. Is it This is going to be your last chance. >> Is it too late to start on X now? And and the second was about your book, right? About it's taken you three years to write it. For me, it's I think 3 years most of everything I might be talking about might be outdated. >> Okay. So, is it too late to grow an X, right? Like the ultimate question for those that are maybe seeing the platform and all the action going on in it and want to get into it. I don't think it's too late. I will say it's the hardest platform right now. So, um, when I think about a founder prioritizing and if I was to go down a list of all the things you could do or maybe another platform you could focus on, you know, um, typically it's like, can we go a lot deeper on what you're already doing, right? Again, like less but better. Um, or is there another platform that maybe is a lot more easy that we could get going on? So, it wouldn't be the first thing I would go to and I'd be careful with it because yeah, it's very, very, very hard to get started on. Um, so that's that piece on the book side of it. Yeah, every book's different. I get a sense. Yeah, yours is like this mix of kind of creator, CEO, and yeah, I think it depends on what kind of book you're trying to write, right? Is it something that's going to be more timeless around that subject with timeless principles that even 100 years from now would still be relevant or is it like very much like the algorithm is this right now and as a creator, then you got to do this to be a CEO, right? If it's the former, then you don't really need to worry as much, I think, about the timing. Um, if it's the latter, yeah, the timing is going to matter a lot. And I think it's figuring out what kind of book you're writing. Personally, I think a lot of the people that I admire typically try to write the former, which is something more timeless, something that could be a perennial seller, something that will still um have a level of relevance even a hundred years from now. You know, and examples of this are like on advertising uh by David Oglevie um or scientific advertising by Claude Hopkins, right? They were there's some references in there that are pretty old school, but the books are still classics today. And so that's what I would try to default to with a book if you're worried about when it's going to come out and if it's going to matter. Yeah. Try to make it more of a perennial seller. Um and read a book called Ryan Holiday from Ryan Holiday called Perennial Seller. Um that's good on kind of wrapping your head around that concept. I think the thing I've learned on the book journey that I'll just leave you with too um that I screwed up or not screwed up, it's been the hardest part because really my journey why it's taken so long is not procrastination or perfectionism although that's been you know it's come up. it's actually that I didn't have the right sparring partner, uh, an editor. Um, I've had editors, it didn't work out. Um, and I finally have found someone that's unbelievable. Um, and that's really what I needed all along. I just couldn't find it because I'm really just new to this whole game. I'd never written a book before. So, really make sure you have a good editor that can then help the project move along, help it get out there. I think similar to how whether you're struggling on social media, have an accountability partner, have a coach. You know, you're struggling with a book, find an editor. Make sure you're not going solo. And so, for me, too, it's I wish I had met this existing editor three years ago. The book would already be out. >> Tyler, are you good? >> Yes. >> You sure? Drile, I know Drigo wants to ask. >> You want the editor? Yeah, I'd be happy to make the intro. >> Diggle, you want to say something? >> Matt, how involved are you with the content strategy for what you guys are doing on YouTube right now? >> So, yeah, I can describe the content strategy and how how involved I am. Go for it. Well, just because you said you have a 30 person team as I'm trying to scale my own a agency. I work with Chris and as I scale I'm I'm having more issues with scaling certain things and I'm trying to assign people to do certain tasks. I just wanted to find out at least from your perspective. Are you still involved with YouTube strategy or you have somebody that does that for you? >> I have someone that does all YouTube strategy for me. Um, now that said, again, everything I'm building in the team and the systems and be able to remove myself, it's really to get to optionality, right? It's freedom. But I do love this stuff, right? So, I do get involved still sometimes in different aspects cuz I want to, right? So, you know, I want to know what ideas we have coming out because I want it to make sure it feels like me and it's the stuff that I would want to watch. So, I'll get in there in the first like 10% in the ideation phase just to see like what we got cooking. And then typically these days to really make sure that it's super dialed, um, I'll also send just a brief Loom video on the concepts and how I'm feeling about them and what comes to mind when I look at the title and the packaging so that as we start to kind of get ready for the filming day, my team already knows the kind of things I want to touch on. So it's not some person formulating what I'm going to say that day. It's my thinking, my thoughts, and what I genuinely want to show up like. Um, so in terms of like that process though to bring it down to earth
1with someone that's scaling an agency and looking to, you know, figure it out, right? So they're not getting stuck in the weeds and they're still involved but they're not involved in stuff they don't need to do. I think all these things when you look at a business, you look at a media company, it's an assembly line, right? It's a machine. And when you look at the assembly line of video, right, it goes from ideation pre-production uh to production um to editing to then um distribution analytics and then is like fed back into ideiation, right? And so when you look at that all like who owns each piece of that process, right? And if you're trying to get more out of the weeds, you want to be making sure probably that you own no more than maybe one or two of those. And if you're a founder brand, a personal brand, you're going to have to be involved in production, right? Because it's your face. So you got to make sure then that the other pieces hopefully you have other owners that are owning that piece. Doesn't mean you can't have an opinion or share an insight or something you'd like to do, but you know that if you were just to vanish for a few weeks and, you know, go snowboarding somewhere and, you know, kind of do your thing that the process would still run without you. And so, you know, running this agency, getting it to 30K and trying to do it in a sustainable way, I'd be looking at, you know, do I have owners for each step? Who owns ideation? Who owns pre-production? Who owns production? Who owns editing? Who owns analytics? And can I make sure there's an owner for all those that's not me, right? And that maybe I can get it to a stage now where I've got owners there. They're learning from the documentation we have as well as any videos I've made that describe those steps. and I'm now just available on an hour content meeting per week where any questions that come up, opportunities, issues, I can flag them and help with them. But other than that, this team starts to get to a point where, you know, its steady state runs without me. >> Love that. What are some like non-negotiables you look for when you're hiring people for these positions? So, the non-negotiables that we have and that I recommend folks have is I think number one, you need people that are extremely reliable, right? You have dates you're going to be shipping things or shooting dates that are going to happen. Like these people must like ship on time, be reliable, have a history of strong performance. One question I love to ask folks in the interview process is tell me a time you've done something exceptional, right? Like I want to know like what have you actually made? What have you put out there? Let me see it. Show me it. How are you involved in that? Run me through the process. Why did you make these decisions? And really see how this person makes decisions, their judgment, their taste, their intuition, right? So extreme reliability. Second thing is we want people that are entrepreneurs, right? People that view their area like I'm bringing this person on to run a business unit, >> right? So I'm not running, you know, I'm not bringing as an example memo, the editor on my team behind you. He's not just an editor on our team. He is running our editing department and running the second channel we just started. So he's running a business unit within our business, right? And the kind of people then that you can give the reigns for certain outcomes like, you know, we want this second channel to drive this much cash flow to the company and that person can actually own it. And so you're kind of asking yourself when you're looking at someone, say you're trying to create a million-dollar business, you need a few people in there that maybe could run a 500k company, a couple people that could run a 250K, and then maybe a couple others, but maybe not. And so you're kind of looking at someone maybe being like, would I trust you to run like a 250 to $500,000 business? And if it's someone that doesn't hit that mark, they're a bit sloppy, they're, you know, rough around the edges, it's like maybe it's a no. Um the next aspect that I look forward to is I mean just like raw intelligence honestly I think that's something that sometimes gets overlooked in smaller companies but when you look at big c
1ompanies right they're giving IQ tests they're looking at where this person graduated from they're looking at their marks in school and so I think just using even there's a test called brick BR IQ um giving someone an IQ test and making sure that they can they're smart because there's a lot of decisions you're making when we Think about say editing as an example. There's so many micro decisions along the way and also these spaces are being reinvented right now with agents as well, right? And so do you have someone that can go and say Memo who's running our second channel, he can use agents to go and look at all these podcast appearances I'm on and long form content I've made and come up with 80 clips a month without even touching an editing software and then just put the polish on it, then just put the packaging on it and make it proper. or do you have something that like that would just be mind-blowing to them and they would never be able to do that. >> And even in 6 months when agents are democratized, they're still just like I just got to do it one by one by hand and my max output is two per month. Like this is a tale of two different companies. And so you're trying to find those folks that have I think the intellectual horsepower to keep up. I >> I want to make sure I ask this. There's a serious question and a super stupid question. >> Perfect. >> To lower [clears throat] the IQ of the room. The serious question is this. What you're saying makes a lot of sense. If I'm a soloreneur, I want to be able to go and and build the content and then have a way to monetize. And in order to do all this stuff, I do need help, but then I don't have the money to get help. So, I keep telling myself, I make enough money, then I'll get the help. Help me get out of that routine because I think I'm voicing it probably for 85% of our audience right now. >> I know our audience, right, Milka? Yeah. They're stuck in this weird loop. >> Yeah. So, my approach to the weird loop is first things first, you got to get the money. That's how I see it, right? It's like you're you're building something. You're in this loop. What's the most important thing? You're building a business. Okay, we got to get some cash, right? Because you get some cash in the door, then you can start getting the help you need around you. Whether it is get that first hire so you're off a bit of the treadmill or it's getting a coach or joining a community or whatever, getting the support you need to stay accountable so you're not just spinning your tires. And so then it's just looking even just getting a pen and paper out for a second like let's just keep things simple, right? I know when I get a little anxious or overwhelmed going and just pen and paper kind of writing things down and I don't mean journaling. I mean even just writing down some bullet points, maybe some to-dos, maybe drawing something helps just me get out of my head, right? What are like maybe the next five, 10 things you think you can do that would drive you some cash flows, right? Is it getting on 10 sales calls? Is it actually talking to that person that's been saying, \"Hey, I'd love to work with you.\" Um, is it launching something new because the existing thing's not working right? Different businesses, different cash flow generating activities, but always good when you're a bit confused to get grounded and just like, what is the highest cash flow move I can make next? And so, you've now kind of documented some things in your journal. Some are really bad and been there, done that, do that all the time. and some are actually a kernel of something amazing, right? You want to then prioritize those things. And I think a way to think about this to bring that even more granular, right? If I'm really trying to dial this is what is the lowest effort thing that I think that could produce the easiest amount of cash, right? So like, oh, there's literally someone that emailed you that you just haven't answered yet that wants to work together. Get on a call, try and close the deal. let's get this done, right? And so that's the next step because then the cash flow brings
1you the leverage and the optionality to start investing in some areas that may be able to support you. But without the cash, you're just in this cycle of constantly spinning your tires. You're speaking perfectly logically like from a business person point of view. The creative person, God bless you all, can't hear this. They just can't hear it because like no better than I do this. Yeah. I want to do this thing instead. Or when they have money, it's like, well, I'm going to hoard it and I want to use it because money is scarce. >> So, they have a poor money mindset. Or my friend Orwin McManis would call it a system of thinking that's designed for failure. That's a much bigger, deeper topic to talk about. We're not going to be able to solve right now. Yeah. >> So, I think you may have solved some of that problem in selecting your audience. If you're a 3 million a year entrepreneur, you've already solved these problems. You don't have to deal with that. you can just help them achieve and scale more. And so it's a realization I've come to myself. Serving soloreneure creative people has been a massive challenge because there are systems of thinking that it's just so hard to undo. >> Now before we ran out of time, >> you you created an open loop. You said you're drinking, you're on substances, you got some blood work done, and your testosterone level was really low relative to your age. How's the testosterone level now? I told you I'd ask a low IQ question. >> Testosterone >> open loop, bro. It's bugging me. I'm like, yo, what happened to that thing? >> Testosterone's pumping. We're back. Sober sobriety works. Sobriety works, I guess right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you do blood work often? >> Every six months. >> Okay. So, you're at where you're supposed to be. You're above average, below average. Where are you at? >> We're in the pocket. We're in the pocket. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Love it. Go to the gym. There we go. Lift some weights. Get some sunshine. Get some good sleep. >> This is not true. I wish that were true. Yeah, it's chemistry. >> How are you doing on the testoster? >> Okay. >> Yeah, there's two kinds. The kind that I need to grow muscle is not good. >> Okay. >> There's like free testosterone and there's the other testosterone. Whichever one you need to build muscle, I'm like, but let me try everything I'm supposed to do. Sleep, diet. Let me try that first. >> Yep. >> Before I get into therapy. >> Y >> Matt, I appreciate you taking the time to to talk us through it. I I love the way you present information. You are who you present yourself to be online. U you're you're more clothed today than you normally are. I think when I see you and I appreciate that everything you said checks to me. There's a clear logical system. You are very good at creating systems and you've just proven it to me and I I hope our audience can probably you probably need to replay this several times and go through this. And if you're ever stuck, you just take the part you're stuck and ask AI, I understand this. How do I apply this to my line of business? And it will help you. You don't need to get all the answers from one person, but I like this really high level kind of CEO executive level looking at a problem. So, we understand the architecture of how this is supposed to work. And then each person's going to have to determine does this fit for me, what I'm doing, uh my my financial goals, my work ethic, and then find the right answer for them. Now, before we get out of here, people are like, \"This is super cool. Is there a lead magnet or is there someplace that we can send them to that they can then go deeper with what you're doing?\" >> Yeah. So people can find me Matt Gray on all platforms on my YouTube. You can see a bunch of different topics there. Go and peruse them. Eac
1h video also is accompanied by either a worksheet or some sort of deep dive system that you get for free. So you can go and check those out there as well. And then if you're interested in going a little deeper on how we work with founders and creators inside of Founder OS, you can just go check out founder os.com. >> Perfect. Thanks for being here, man. >> So much appreciate you. >> Thank you. >> [music]",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnJ02DGOaxw",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/RnJ02DGOaxw",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RnJ02DGOaxw/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:6400,duration_display:"1h 46m",view_count:19989,published_at:"2026-08-12T13:23:35+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Build a Profitable Personal Brand with an Offer | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do and Matt Gray discuss building profitable personal brands by focusing on clear offers, consistent shipping, and mastering platform tactics.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-08-13T06:00:05.999301+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-29T10:20:20.366056+00:00",faq:$R[38]=[],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:21634,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"profitable personal brand",secondary_keywords:$R[39]=["personal brand strategy","content creation tactics","entrepreneurship mindset","overcoming perfectionism"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[40]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:"Matt Gray",pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[41]={id:"65b3afad-178c-4489-9a9c-38506fdfde63",video_id:"j8yGn1v8OgU",title:"She Cracked the YouTube Code. Here's Everything She Knows",slug:"cracking-the-youtube-code-a-playbook-for-viral-ideas",topic_tag:"CONTENT CREATION",secondary_tags:$R[42]=["MARKETING","SOCIAL MEDIA","BRANDING"],one_line_summary:"In a live workshop, Chris Do and YouTube strategist April Lynn reveal a business-first framework for engineering viral video ideas.",pull_quote:"The idea sets the ceiling. The execution determines the result.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[43]=[$R[44]={headline:"Ideas Set The Performance Ceiling",explanation:"The potential of a video is determined at the idea stage, not in production. A brilliant idea with average execution will always outperform a weak idea with flawless execution."},$R[45]={headline:"Filter Ideas By Reach And Remarkability",explanation:"A good idea must have a large Total Addressable Market (TAM) and a high degree of novelty. You must ask: how many people care about this, and is my take different enough to be noticed?"},$R[46]={headline:"Separate The Idea From The Packaging",explanation:"The content of your video and how you package it (title and thumbnail) are two separate things. A video's success or failure may be due to its packaging, not its core idea."},$R[47]={headline:"Systematize Your Title Creation",explanation:"Generate 20-30 title variations for every video using a four-part system. Analyze competitor formulas, study outlier videos, and use AI as an accelerator, not an originator."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>The Most Sober Conversation About YouTube\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Most conversations about YouTube success are clouded by myths of passion, luck, and mysterious algorithms. Creators are told to find their voice, follow their curiosity, and wait for the platform to bless them with viral fame.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is a fantasy.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI have to say this, this is the most business sober conversation Iâve ever had with anybody about YouTube content,â\x3C/em> Chris Do remarked during a workshop with YouTube strategist April Lynn. His surprise is telling. The creative world often treats content as art, but on a platform like YouTube, content is a product. And products require a business-first approach.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>April, who has spent five years reverse-engineering what makes videos succeed, lays out a framework that treats YouTube not as a lottery but as a market to be analyzed and won. Itâs a system built on data, psychology, and strategic filtration. It replaces hope with process.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For creators drowning in inconsistent views and struggling to understand why some videos soar while others sink, this is the playbook. Itâs time to stop guessing and start engineering success.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Idea Sets the Ceiling\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Every video begins with an idea. Itâs a simple truth that masks a profou
1nd reality.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThe idea itself that you start with is, I would say, probably the single most underrated part of the entire video,â\x3C/em> April states. This is the foundational principle of her entire methodology. Before you worry about cameras, lighting, editing, or music, you must confront the quality of your core concept.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>April frames it with a powerful maxim: \x3Cstrong>The idea sets the ceiling. The execution determines the result.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This means your idea establishes the absolute upper limit of views a video can possibly achieve. Your skill in production and editing only determines how close you get to that ceiling. A weak idea, even if executed by a Hollywood-level production team, has a low ceiling. A brilliant idea with mediocre execution can still capture interest because its potential was high from the start. A clear path to building an audience of engaged fans is a foundational piece of any modern business, a strategy Do also explores in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-build-a-million-dollar-personal-brand\">How to Build a Million Dollar Personal Brand\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Most creators get this backward. They pour their resources into execution, hoping a slick package can save a flimsy premise. It cannot.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The first step is understanding the difference between a value proposition and a video idea. One workshop attendee, Gwen, pitched her channel as bringing \x3Cem>âpractical knowledge and wisdom to new age situations for younger women who want to be inspired yet have self-doubt.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>April immediately course-corrected. \x3Cem>âWhat you just described to me was a value prop,â\x3C/em> she explained. \x3Cem>âThe idea itself is kind of like, okay, a single video idea. What is this video about? What is the format?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>A value proposition defines your channel: who you serve and the value you provide. A video idea is a specific, single instance of delivering that value. It requires a topic, a format, and an angle.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>To make this concrete, April breaks down common YouTube formats:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Tutorials:\x3C/strong> The classic âhow-toâ video. (e.g., How to Make a Pizza)\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Challenges:\x3C/strong> Framing an activity as a test or experiment. (e.g., I Tried Making the Worldâs Biggest Pizza)\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Commentary:\x3C/strong> Reacting to or analyzing an event or piece of media. (e.g., We Rated the Top 5 Pizzerias in LA)\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Breakdowns:\x3C/strong> Deep-dive analyses or video essays. (e.g., The Scientific Anatomy of a Perfect Pizza)\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Vlogs:\x3C/strong> A day-in-the-life or experiential narrative. (e.g., A Day in the Life of a Pizza Maker)\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Podcasts:\x3C/strong> Conversation-based interviews or discussions. (e.g., The Worldâs Best Pizza Chefs on What Makes a Perfect Slice)\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>Generating ideas is not a passive activity. It is a daily habit. April points to top YouTubers like Ryan Tan, who sets a timer for 10 minutes every day just to generate ideas. An idea is simply a new combination of familiar things. By systematically combining topics with different formats and angles (beginner vs. expert, money vs. time, etc.), one core topic can sprout 50 potential video ideas.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Stop waiting for inspiration. Start building a system for creation.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Two Pillars of a Winning Idea: Reach and Remarkability\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Once you have a backlog of ideas, the next phase is filtration. How do you separate the breakout hits from the duds? Aprilâs research points to two critical factors: Reach and Remarkability.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>First is \x3Cstrong>Total Addressable Market (TAM)\x3C/strong>, or Reach. This is a term borrowed from the venture capital world, and its application to YouTube is what makes the conversation so âsober.â It forces you to ask: how many people on Earth could possibly be interested in this video? This isn't about your personal interests. It's about market size. The same principles that help you define your ideal client in a service business apply here, a concept Do covers extensively in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/proven-strategies-to-attract-ideal-clients\">Proven Strategies to Attract Your Ideal Clients\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>To gauge TAM, you must look for proof of prior success. Search your topic on YouTube. \x3Cem>âHow many views do those videos tend to get?â\x3C/em> April asks. But raw view counts can be misleading. A massive creator might get a million views talking about a bug, but that doesnât mean âbug videosâ are a high-TAM topic. The creator is the draw, not the topic.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The key is to find outliers. An outlier is a video on a specific topic that significantly outperformed a channelâs average view count. If multiple channels have outlier hits on the topic of âhow to pick a mentor,â itâs a strong signal that the market for that topic is larger than the creatorsâ individual audiences.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Gwenâs idea, âhow to pick the right mentor,â was put to this test. \x3Cem>âIf the highest viewed video you can find on picking the right mentor has like 15,000 views,â\x3C/em> April warns, \x3Cem>âand your view goal is I really want this video to hit 100,000 views, that is a lot riskier.â
1\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The second pillar is \x3Cstrong>Remarkability\x3C/strong>, or Novelty. Humans are wired to notice whatâs new and different. If your idea is just a repeat of what everyone else is doing, itâs invisible. Your idea must be novel enough to be remarked upon.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For Gwenâs mentor video, the angle could be the source of remarkability. \x3Cem>âMaybe other people have talked about picking the right mentor,â\x3C/em> April suggests, \x3Cem>âbut no one else has brought on Chris.â\x3C/em> Adding a well-known, respected guest can be the novel twist that makes an old topic feel fresh. The research then extends: how do other podcasts featuring that guest perform? Does their presence correlate with outlier views elsewhere? This is how you validate an angle.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Of course, views arenât the only goal. Perhaps you want to attract a very specific type of client for a high-ticket offer. In that case, you might intentionally choose a lower-TAM topic. \x3Cem>âYou may prefer that this video gets only 10,000 views because those 10,000 viewers are going to be much more qualified,â\x3C/em> April notes. Other valid goals include experimenting with a new format or deepening the connection with your existing audience.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Different strategy. Different outcome.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Final Cut: Feasibility and Brand Alignment\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>After an idea passes the TAM and Remarkability filters, it enters what April calls the âidea elimination phase.â This is where the aspirational meets the practical. Two final trials must be passed: Feasibility and Brand Alignment.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The first trial is \x3Cstrong>Feasibility\x3C/strong>. Is this idea possible for you to create right now, with the resources you have? An idea to interview Elon Musk about his Mars colonization plan is a high-TAM, highly remarkable idea. It is also, for 99.9% of creators, completely infeasible.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Chris Do highlights this by pushing back on the hypothetical idea of being a guest on Gwen's show. \x3Cem>âIâm not getting on anybodyâs podcast,â\x3C/em> he states bluntly, half-joking but making a critical point. Your grand idea depends on the consent and availability of others. If a key component is outside your control, the idea is not feasible. This is the discipline of working within constraints, a core tenet of professional design and business.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do praises this systematic approach. \x3Cem>âIn creativity, in traditional design creative circles, we separate the two processes. When youâre thinking of ideas, donât limit by anything, and then after the fact you can judge. You canât create and judge at the same time.â\x3C/em> Aprilâs framework honors this: generate freely, then filter ruthlessly. Feasibility is one of the final, most ruthless filters.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The second trial is \x3Cstrong>Brand Alignment\x3C/strong>. Does this idea, even if it promises a million views, align with your channelâs mission and values? A bait-and-switch or controversy-for-clicks video might have a massive TAM, but it could alienate your core audience and damage the trust youâve worked to build. Chasing views at the expense of your brand is a short-term game that ends in ruin. Similar to running a business, every public action must be weighed against your core strategy, a lesson that's key to building a sustainable enterprise like a \x3Ca href=\"/watch/secret-to-running-a-million-dollar-solo-design-agency\">million-dollar solo agency\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>An idea must pass all these tests. It must have market potential. It must be novel. It must be feasible. And it must serve your long-term vision. Only then is it ready for production.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Case Study: The Peril of a One-Hit Wonder\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Sometimes, success is the most dangerous teacher. When a video blows up, creators often struggle to replicate it because they misdiagnose the reason for its success. This is the exact situation workshop attendee Tyler faced.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Tyler had a massive hit with a video titled \x3Cem>â$100 million YouTube exit.â\x3C/em> Now, he wanted to launch a new series of case study breakdowns, interviewing YouTubers live to show them how to grow their business for an investor or an exit. He saw this as a natural continuation.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>April saw a critical distinction.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is where she introduces a crucial concept: \x3Cstrong>Idea vs. Packaging\x3C/strong>. The idea is the core content of the video. The packaging is the title and thumbnail, the wrapper that presents the idea to the audience.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The success of Tylerâs first video was rooted in its packaging. \x3Cem>â$100 million YouTube exitâ\x3C/em> creates a powerful curiosity gap. April quickly channels the viewerâs internal monologue: \x3Cem>âWho was it? How did this happen? How long did it take them to get there? Who did they sell to?â\x3C/em> The title promised a piece of remarkable, accomplished news. Its TAM was huge, appealing to anyone interested in the creator economy.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Tylerâs proposed follow-up, \x3Cem>âViews will not get you to $100 million exit,â\x3C/em> while related in topic, has fundamentally different packaging. The curiosity gap is smaller, and the TAM is narrower. April explains, \x3Cem>âThe audience is not now to everyone in creator economy. The audience is specifically you as a YouTuber who are already looking for an exit.â\x3C/em> This distinction is critical. He was targeting a tiny sub-niche of a broader market that had made his first video a hit.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Chris Do puts it perfectly. \x3Cem>
1âSometimes we have hits and we think we know why it's a hit, but we actually don't.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Tyler believed the success came from the case studies *inside* the video. And that content was valuable; he was flooded with comments from viewers saying, \x3Cem>âI didnât even know this was possible for me.â\x3C/em> That feedback validated the *idea*âthat creators are hungry for business strategy. It did not, however, validate that this idea alone could be packaged as the primary hook.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The viewers came for the news of a $100 million exit. They stayed for the education. Tyler was about to offer only the education, removing the explosive hook that drew the crowd in the first place.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The solution isnât to abandon the idea. It's to repackage it. April suggests alternatives: continue to package videos around \x3Cem>âbig sexy exits,â\x3C/em> perhaps analyzing a new one in each video. Or, package them around a \x3Cem>âhypothetical sexy exitâ\x3C/em> that creates the same level of curiosity. The content insideâthe case studies and strategic adviceâcan remain the same. But the promise made by the title and thumbnail must be bigger.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>You may be delivering valuable information. But if no one clicks, it doesn't matter.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Art of the Clickable Title\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>If your idea sets the ceiling, your title and thumbnail are the gatekeepers. You can create the greatest video in the world, but as April states, \x3Cem>âif no one clicks on it, it doesnât matter because no oneâs ever going to watch it.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is why top YouTubers obsess over packaging, often creating the title and thumbnail before they even shoot the video. If they canât find a clickable angle, they know the idea is dead on arrival. This mindset shift is one of the most important a creator can make, moving from an artist to a marketer. The psychology of what makes people click is universal, as explained in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/marketing-psychology-create-new-markets\">The Marketing Psychology Behind Smart Brands\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Most creators make a fundamental mistake: they think a titleâs job is to describe what the video is about. It is not. A titleâs job is to present the video in a way that maximizes a viewer's desire to click while ensuring they are satisfied with the content they receive.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>April uses a brilliant analogy. Imagine you have some broccoli. You can offer it by saying, \x3Cem>âHey Chris, I have some broccoli. Do you want this broccoli?â\x3C/em> The response will likely be lukewarm. Or, you can reframe the offer based on a desired outcome. \x3Cem>âHey Chris, do you want to increase your testosterone? I have something for you.â\x3C/em> When he says yes, you present the broccoli and explain how it helps him achieve his goal. Heâs now excited to eat the broccoli.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The broccoli is your video content. The first offer is a descriptive title (e.g., âEating Broccoliâ). The second offer is a benefit-driven, curiosity-inducing title (e.g., âThe #1 Food to Triple Your Testosteroneâ). Both lead to the same content, but only one gets the click.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Your title is not the broccoli. Itâs the promise of what the broccoli will do for the viewer.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>A System for Generating World-Class Titles\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Writing a great title is not a moment of divine inspiration. It is a systematic, high-volume process. Aprilâs advice is blunt: \x3Cem>âYou should be coming up with at least 20 to 30 title variations per video that you make.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This sounds daunting, but it can be done in under 30 minutes with a structured process. Here is Aprilâs four-step playbook for title generation:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Step 1: Brainstorm Blind (5 minutes).\x3C/strong> Start by getting your own unfiltered ideas out. Set a timer and write down every possible title you can think of for your video. Don't judge, just write.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Step 2: Analyze Your âModel 5â (10 minutes).\x3C/strong> Identify five channels that have a similar format to yours, but are in a different niche. If you make educational tutorials about YouTube, look at educational channels in productivity (like Ali Abdaal), cooking, or fitness. Study their most successful video titles and extract the formulas. Is it âHow to X without Yâ? Is it âThe 5 Mistakes Everyone Makesâ? Apply these proven formulas to your topic.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Step 3: Hunt for Outliers (10 minutes).\x3C/strong> Use a tool like Oneof10.io to research your video's topic. This tool surfaces outlier videos that have overperformed for their channels. Scroll through and look for patterns. Are there âpower wordsâ that appear repeatedly? Does a specific timeframe (e.g., âin 30 days,â âfor 90 daysâ) show up often? These are signals from the market about what resonates. Incorporate these elements into your titles.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Step 4: Use AI as an Accelerator (5 minutes).\x3C/strong> Now, and only now, turn to AI. Feed ChatGPT your original brainstorm list, the formulas from your model channels, and the power words from your outlier research. Then prompt it: \x3Cem>âHey, this is what my video is about. These are title ideas Iâve generated so far... Can you give me 50 more?â\x3C/em> By providing this context, you steer the AI toward high-quality, relevant suggestions instead of the generic, colon-filled titles it usually produces.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>At the end of this 30-minute sprint, you will have a list of dozens of title ideas. Youâve moved from hoping for one good idea to choosing the best from many. You can now test your top two or three using YouTubeâs A/B testing feature, letting the audience tell you which package is most compelling.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is the difference between an amateur and a professional. An amateur waits for a good title to appear. A professional builds a factory to produce them.\x3C/p>",transcript:"April's in the house. We're here in Santa Monica with a few friends. It's a very intimate conversation. It's going to be very meta today because she teaches people how to grow on YouTube and so we're going to try to apply her formula as we're doing it. So, it's a little bit weird. So, just hang in there with us. Without further ado, April, do your thing. >> All right, let's do it. Hi, I'm April and I've spent the last 5 years studying what makes YouTube videos tick. With my videos, I've helped thousands of creators start, grow, and scale their YouTube channels. And today, I'm going to share all that knowledge with you. We're going to be covering the five core areas that have the highest impact on YouTube growth. And by the end of this video, you'll know exactly what you need to do to grow your YouTube channel in 2026. Let's get started. >> Let's get into the five things. What do we need to know? What's number one? >> Number one, ideation. Every single video starts from the idea. And the idea itself that you start with is, I would say, probably the single most underrated part of the entire video. So we have to start with the idea. >>
1 Okay. How do we know we have a good one? Because everybody has an idea. Ideas are a dime a dozen. >> Ideas are a dime a dozen. So first, why why are ideas are like why are ideas so important? We'll just start with that one. Uh there's this the saying that like the idea sets the ceiling. The execution determines the result. And so from the idea stage, you basically determine right from the very get-go what is the upper cap of views that this video could possibly get and then how good of a job you do executing on that determines how much of that you actually get. So that's why ideas are so important. So but I'll answer this what makes up a good idea. I would say when we think about ideiation we have to split it into two different areas which is idea generation and idea filtration. You say that ideas are a dime a dozen and that is true to an extent. I do think that every single person needs to be generating more ideas than you do. I would say most people think of ideas as like very passively. So they kind of sit down. They're like, \"Okay, what is the video that that I want to make this week?\" Think about, okay, I might have this like little list of ideas or I'll think of an idea right now. Let's do it. Ideas should be something that becomes a daily habit. I know some of the top YouTubers like Ryan Tan for instance will literally have a timer on his phone that goes off and will spend 10 minutes every day just writing down ideas and he'll make sure that that happens every single day. An idea is basically just a unique combination or of two or more familiar things. So it's really about getting a lot of inspiration from things around you and seeing how you can connect them or combine them in different ways. Usually this means connecting some sort of topic. So, what is your video about with maybe different formats? Are you doing it in a tutorial, in a challenge? Are you doing it in a vlog, in different angles? Are you doing it in terms of a like a versus a comparison? Do you have like a money angle on it, a beginner angle on it, an expert angle on it? And combining these different things to generate from maybe one original idea into 10, 50 more ideas that come from that. So that's kind of an overall thing to think about when it comes to generating more ideas to begin with. And then we have idea filtration. So once you have all of those ideas, which you should be doing again a habit every single day, you should be having so many ideas. Then how do you filter into which ones are the good ones? And with that, I would say when it comes to what makes up a good idea, through my research, I've determined that it's really two main factors. Uh, one is what is the reach that this has? What is the TAM? What is the total addressable market of this idea? And that is really like okay, how many people can this idea reach? We'll talk about that. And the second thing is remarkability. So, how novel is this idea? As humans, we are drawn to novelty. We are drawn to remarkability. And so, you want to make something that is different than what people have seen before. And those two things make up a great idea. >> All right. It's very good. So, we have a couple people in the studio audience with us. How many of you want to grow your YouTube channel? Show hands. Okay. So, pretty much everybody. And can we try and freestyle workshop this? >> Yeah, let's do it. >> Why don't you guys pitch an idea? Don't worry too much about it. And then April Lynn will tell us the uh using her filtration and she'll give you like a critique and maybe some advice. >> Yeah. >> When why don't we start with you? >> The pitch is bring practical knowledge and wisdom to new age situations. um for younger women who want to be inspired yet have self-doubt. >> So I would say what you just described to me was a value prop which is still very important. So like you know in a channel we like to think about things like who is your audience? Who are you speaking to? Uh what's the value? So why are they watching your videos? What do they get from watching your videos? That's what you just described. Then there's a format which is how do you deliver that value to your audience which is still not an idea. The idea itself is kind of like okay a single video idea. What is that video like? What like what's what's what's the topic? So what is this video about? What is the format? How are you delivering that topic? Is this a tutorial? Is this a podcast? Is this a challenge that you're doing? Um, and maybe we can like pop an angle on there as well, but like those specific things like what's the topic like this video is about blah in this video I will blah. That is your idea. >> Got it. More more generation needed. >> No, let's do it right now. >> Oh, do it right now. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. >> Do you Do you understand her feedback that you were talking about a value prop, not an idea? >> Like what they were going to get from it, not how I was going to or even Yeah. We need a format. Let's just come with a format first. >> Okay. So, I'm sorry. So, could you >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, let's let's let's talk about format. Uh I like to break an idea into three main things typically. So, that's your topic, what is your video about, your format, how you're going to deliver that value. We'll talk about those. I'll give you a list. And then angles. There's a lot of different angles. I can give you some examples. So, a topic. Let's let's give you an example about a to
1pic. So, let's say um for this conversation, the topic is how to grow on YouTube. That's that that's what we're talking about. Um let's say you are uh you're having a challenge and the challenge could be I want to try to make a pizza in 50 different ways. Making a pizza would be the topic. So that's kind of what the topic is. Then we have the format. The format is how you deliver that. There are I would say five or six main different formats that we tend to see on YouTube. There's a there's a tutorial that's a classic howto. So you know how to grow on YouTube. Let's take the the pizza example. This would be how to make a pizza. That would be a tutorial. Then we have challenge. So with the pizza be like I tried making the biggest pizza. That would be a challenge for instance. Or I tried making a pizza for each of my friends. That would also be a challenge. Then we have we have commentary. So this is often like react creators can be commentary or the uh some some video SCEs can be commentary but it can be what what would a video idea about pizza be? It could be like uh >> we rate the number one pizza in LA. >> Exactly. It's in LA. I love that. Um there's breakdown. So this could be like a video essay. I guess it's like uh it could be like the the anatomy of the perfect pizza and like I like that idea >> going into like okay like what exactly scientifically makes up the perfect pizza. That's that's a breakdown. >> Uh you could have a >> vlog. So maybe it can be like day in the life of a pizza maker for instance and kind of like what is that like? that that that can be a vlog and then there can even like be a podcast perhaps where people come in and maybe like talk about pizza on the podcast. So those are a couple of different formats. >> Yeah. Like we invite the top four chefs who make pizzas to have a conversation about what makes the best pizza and then you're the host. >> Okay, >> that's the format >> that's that's I think that would work because I the first topic I can think of is how to choose a a good mentor. >> Okay, great. >> You know, how do you nail it down? How do you how do you know if this is the right fit for you? And then I could invite different mentors how they've mentored and I could interview. >> Let's pick one format. >> Okay. >> You just pick two now. Tutorial which is the how-to how to pick a good mentor or let's invite people and talk about >> invite people. >> Okay. So it's more like a podcast. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So now we have to get to her topic, right? And then her her angle. >> Yes. So right now we have the format. The format is going to be you're going to be inviting people to your show to talk about mentorship, right? Um, okay. Then when it comes to like an individual video, when it comes to a conversation like this, you can go about it in two ways. Either you could start with the person and that can be how you decide what exactly like what more specific topic you want to talk about or you can try to be like, okay, this is a specific topic and let's invite the right people for this. So you said like the topic is overall how to pick a good mentor. Um that that could fit. So we could like the the topic of picking a mentor with the format of inviting people in your show. So that we have we have the start of something here and then we need some sort of angle on this. So why are people going to be interested in this? What do they get out of it? What can we do to add more interest to this thing? And this is still in the generating an idea phase. We've not started filtering this idea yet. >> Yeah. >> A great way to define an idea is a a video title of this idea. And so like for you, what is a does not have to be a good title, but it's like a very basic title for this video? >> Um, mentor me. I don't know. >> Okay. Um, let's mentor me is interesting. this kind of we're still in the idea generation phase. Mentor me uh put this concept in my head of like you could be live mentoring people or they could be live mentoring you and you could be you know talking about how to choose a mentor through your experience of being mentored. Um and that could be one way in which they do it. We're still in the idea generation phase. That's like a slightly different I say angle and a slightly different format there too. Let's start with the most basic version of this. This could be a, you know, like how how to pick the right mentor parenthesis featuring Chris Do for instance, right? It says it's like, okay, like you're having Chris on your show. You're talking with Chris about, hey, Chris, what does it mean to be, you know, how how
1what's your best advice for finding a mentor? What is the best advice that you would give young people when they're trying to find a mentor? Is that like a a basic understanding of kind of like the most basic version of this idea? And >> you said, \"I want to teach people about how to find a mentor.\" >> And the format will be a podcast where you're talking to someone. >> Yes. >> And then she asked you, \"What might be a sample title?\" And you're like, \"Mentor me.\" >> Yeah. >> Mentor me does not take into consideration that you have a guest. >> Oh, I was thinking about me, the PE people listening. >> No. Okay. So, you're trying to come up with a title that sums up what I'm about to get. You're creating an expectation of the experience. And so, we need to land that plane. So what she's like why don't we try on the title for example pick the right mentor with my guest. Now that's the first title or an idea that brings some of your ideas together. How to find the right mentor but with the context of this other person I'm bringing in. >> Okay. So at this point we have we have an idea. We have a topic. How to find the right mentor. How to choose a mentor. We have a format. This is going to be a conversation a podcast. Um, we potentially like Chris Doe himself might be an angle because Chris might be a well-known figure and so you're bringing us maybe some familiarity bias. Maybe some of the people that you want to target knows Chris. You can bring that in. Great. Okay, we have these things. Now, let's filter this idea. Let's determine is this a good idea or not? And let's start with the the the first thing which is what is the ceiling that this idea can possibly get up to? How many views if this was the best executed video? Like the best executed version of this idea, how many views could that get? How would how would you go about finding this ceiling? Well, first I would look for is there any proof of prior success for topics like this? look up other videos on the topic of picking the right mentor. How many video how many views do those videos tend to get? And when looking at this, I wouldn't just look at the absolute number because there could be some people who like maybe every single video they get, no matter what, even if they just talk about a bug gets a million views. If they also made a video about mentorship that got a million views and every of their videos get a million views, but it's all like very random, I would not use that as great proof of prior success because it's like anything they make because it's more about them versus the topic. So I like to think about this concept called outliers which is if you look for a topic and there is signal that previous channels have made videos about this topic and those videos have outperformed that channel's view average that is an outlier. And when you can find evidence of outliers about the topic of picking the right mentor then there's like okay there is some proof of prior success here. Also, how many views are those getting? If the highest viewed video you can find on getting on picking the right mentor has like 15,000 views, then it's a question for you of what is your view goal? If your view goal is, you know what, if this video gets a,000 views, I would be so happy. That is and and and if other videos have gotten 15 20,000 views, great. That is enough proof of prior success. If your view goal is, I really want this video to hit 100,000 views and all you're seeing are videos hitting 15 20K, that is a lot riskier to take on this idea because the ceiling might be so low that even if you execute upon it perfectly, you still wouldn't get those views. Got it. >> And then the other part would be the remarkability. So, is this video remarkable? Have other people made this video? That's why the concept of bringing on Chris potentially is like a great angle because maybe other people have talked about picking the right mentor but no one else has brought on Chris. And if Chris is someone who has a lot of familiarity, if Chris is someone who you think a lot of people would respect to and would would want a lot of people to hear from him, that c
1ould be something. And you could also take a look at, hey, what are other podcasts that have featured Chris as well? How do those podcasts perform other like their average view count? Maybe every single podcast that Chris is a guest on overperforms their view average or for the most part they do. That's a great guest to bring on. Maybe for the most part, every time Chris is invited on a podcast, for some reason's episodes get fewer views than the rest of them. Maybe I would rethink bringing on Chris as a podcast if your goal is views. Now, not everybody's goal or number one goal is going to be a high view count on a video. So, that's really important to go into, but that's how I would filter this idea and determine whether or not it's a good one. >> I have to say this, this is the most business sober conversation I've ever had with anybody about YouTube content. >> What do you mean? [laughter] >> I really like your approach. You're talking about TAM. Like, people don't even know what TAM is. You're looking at this like like you're a a venture capitalist investment banker. So on that note, do we invest in this idea or no? >> You would have to do the research. So you you would have to go >> what's your gut telling you? >> For Gwen specifically knowing that she everything is contextual, right? Like every the answer is going to be it depends. For her, I would say yes. Like you are starting your channel, you need to try new things to get off the ground. Maybe your criteria is going to be different. You also need to figure out what you like. If you are just starting out, you have to try different formats. You have to try different things because maybe you love podcasting. Maybe you realize, I hate talking with other people on camera. I would rather do it just myself. And that becomes a different format. But you need to try it. So for you, I'd be like, \"Yeah, go for it.\" >> Okay. Before we move on to the next person, first of all, do you have any quick followup or you good? >> I just have one followup. >> Okay. >> And she You said goal is views. What might be another goal? >> Yeah. I mean, I think >> Good question. >> I was sitting there thinking, why are we making YouTube videos without [laughter] views? >> Hey, you're redeeming yourself. You're back on the train. You might be in the the engine room right now, girl. Good for you. >> One, let's say you have some sort of paid offer that you want to convert viewers to. You may not care if this video gets a 100,000 views. You may prefer that this video gets only 10,000 views because those 10,000 viewers are going to be much more qualified and much more willing to convert to your paid offer after watching this video. And so for you, you may intentionally decrease your TAM, limit your total addressable market because you only want business owners with eight figure businesses to be watching this video. you're probably not going to get five million views on that video, but the people who do, if your offer is targeted towards them, much more likely to convert. So, that's one, again, very business sober version of this. There's also more wishy-washy goals that I personally think are really great. For instance, maybe your goal is, I just want to experiment with this new format. I've never done this before. I want to see if I like it. That can be your goal. views might you might not care about at all. You're like, \"Hey, let me try this format. I just want to see if I like it.\" That can be a super valid goal. Maybe your goal is, \"I want to deepen my relationship with my current audience.\" You could cap your TAM because you don't want to attract new viewers to this video. The goal of this video is to deepen that relationship, to connect more with them, to let them more into the way that you work, share more about yourself. That is also a valid goal. So, not every video the goal has to be views, >> but for you, let's keep it on views. [laughter] It's good to play. Let's play to win. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Good job for getting back on the train one more time. All right. Ver
1y good. So, I I have a question for you. You threw out this whole like angle. I'll just get this guess. Is some part of your thinking process working within the constraints and resources that you have or do you just pie in the sky this thing? because I'm not getting on anybody's podcast. I'm just putting it out there. >> Yeah. So that [laughter] that's that's I would say after filtering your ideas, you're going to have some ideas left over. And then there's actually a third secret phase which is the idea elimination phase. You go through the your you send your idea through the elimination trials. What the very first of those trials is is feasibility. Is this idea feasible? Um if the idea is not feasible, you can't make the idea unless you do something to make it feasible. So that is one of the things that I would say I would like eliminate. Another thing in the the elimination trials is simply does this idea align with your brand values. Maybe you you come up with this great idea but it's like oh if I if I made this idea it would actually kind of throw off my mission and my values and what I'm trying to do with my brand to begin with. So there are other things to think about beyond just will this get views and is this remarkable? I love the way that you said that in creativity in traditional design creative circles we separate the two processes when you're thinking of ideas don't limit by anything and then after the fact you can judge. You can't create and judge at the same time. This is true about writing and design. So I'm just putting it out there. So I love that you clarified that for us. Okay, we're going to move on to Tyler who definitely wants a gazillion views. The biggest TAM I believe. So Tyler, give us your pitch. um case study breakdowns. I want to start a new format basically of doing a podcast interview where I bring on YouTubers and I I break down their business live and I show them, you know, how do they grow out their business so that they're attractive for an investor or for an exit. So, that's sort of my new that's my pitch is what do you think about that idea? You I think a lot of people are interested. you know, I did the scorecard and over 2,000 creators have taken the scorecard wanting to be, you know, part of case study or to work with me. So, what do you think about that idea? >> Before you answer, it's really interesting to me that we're all like in the jar and we can't read the label. You're like, \"Oh, who w
1ould watch a video hundred million dollar YouTube exit? Everybody would watch that video. What are you talking about?\" >> So, you can't you can't judge your own stuff. Well, well, so, so that was the experiment for me, right? I was going to just put it out there. I wasn't going to care on how it was going to do because I couldn't predict it. And now I have signals from the market saying there's a lot of people interested in this. >> Every time you're confused about a title, I did just call me. [laughter] >> I'm like, that's a loser. That's a winner. >> Okay. >> You don't have to be like, well, I don't know. I'm going to just bump around in the darkness. >> I will say what's different from $100 million YouTube exit versus what you just pitched. One of them it already happened, right? You're you're breaking down an exit. You're breaking down something that happened in industry. We talked about TAM. Talking about copyright strikes can impact people probably people who have previously been impacted by copyright strikes or are very sensitive to copyright strikes. Unfortunately, most creators, unless they have firsthand experience getting burned by a copyright, they're not really going to care. It's not like the sexiest thing. They care. They're talking about growing their channels, not protecting it, unless something bad has happened to them. $100 million YouTube exit. YouTubers could be interested in that, but a lot of people related to the industry could also be very interested in that because that's like a state of affair with the industry as a whole. I would say that TAM is way higher for this. Um, plus it's something that has already happened. So, they're getting news from you. They're also getting a breakdown of how is this possible? Where is this industry moving? what maybe could they dream about in the future? What you're the series that you're talking about or the format that you're talking about that is really interesting. I will say it is different from your prior proof of success. Not saying that it's bad or wrong, but just saying that it is I would say distinct. >> Okay. Because I thought it was just a kind of a continuation of that video, right? Because in the video I actually gave to three case studies of of creators I I talked to and how I show them where their channel is either going to grow or not grow. So that's that's sort of it is connected to that video. >> Know how to thread it. >> Okay. >> The next hund00 million YouTube exit. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I would say that potentially for sure. I think that it here we're going to format. So, like if you did like in that video that did so well, you had case studies with creators who had not yet exited, but like setting them up to exit or something that is that's getting a lot of views, that's getting a lot of great feedback. >> That's great. I do think that >> what's really an important distinction here is idea versus packaging. >> Those are often thought about together, but they are different things. And so here when when we're talking about this idea, it seems like the inside of this video that did really well for you was very similar to this type of thing, which I think is great proof of prior success. >> Can you break that down? >> Does that make sense? Okay. >> Oh, I want to do it. I have >> Sorry. [laughter] No, no, not selfish. I'm trying to prove myself here. >> Just I just want to say you're such a nerd. I admire you. >> Thank you. >> I don't know what I was expecting. I spent the last 5 years of my life. Such >> a freaking nerd. I love it. I I've never heard anybody talk about it in such a investment banker way before. You understand the difference between packaging and the idea itself? That's what she was asking. You're like, \"No, no explain.\" >> Well, I I do understand [clears throat] like packaging, you mean like thumbnail and title? Because I I do know I have to talk think about that 80% of the time before I even start my video. I didn't do that with my first 50 videos. Now I have. Now I do, but um I think I'm still not quite clear. >> I am. >> Okay. >> That's why I just asked you. You're like, \"Yeah.\" And then you're like landed like I'm not clear. I'm like I think I am. I want to impress teacher here. >> Okay. >> And if teacher says, \"No, that's stupid. Get back on the line.\" I'm like, \"Okay, so sorry. I'll go take more notes. >> Impress us.\" >> So here's the thing. When you first said, \"Hey, this video blew up. I don't know
1why.\" I'm like, \"Man, that's pretty obvious. $100 million YouTube exit.\" and they're like, \"Okay, I want to continue down that path like case studies, breakdowns, and I'll do them live.\" So, we're that was it sounded like a different idea until you explained, \"No, actually, in the previous video, I did breakdowns.\" So, me being a packaging guy, I'm like, \"Well, you just need to call this something that's similar to the other one because the actual idea is the same.\" >> I see. See? Okay, I got it. >> You know, the Asian. >> Brilliant. Brilliant. >> Now, teach them a gold star. >> I am pretty brilliant. Oh, [laughter] she's brilliant. I'm just like jumping on top. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that so mostly Yes. >> Oh, shoot. >> Good. No, no, no, no. Hey, hey, hey. >> We all have Asian parents here. I will never threaten you with a B minus. [laughter] >> I won't be able to go home. That's the problem. >> Uh, okay. Can you explain to me, Tyler, why this video was titled $100 million YouTube exit? >> Because I was talking about how I'm how I worked with my client to get him to that hund00 million evaluation because 18 months ago, we got to 35 million and I convinced him to not sell and we did certain things in the last two years to get him to the hundred million. So that's what I'm doing with creators. You know, this what I do every day. creators come to me and ask me, get me to an exit. So, I'm just taking those case studies and I don't do them exactly verbatim because I'm I'm trying to sometimes protect, you know, privacy and and who they are. >> And so, I break like in that video, I broke down two clients, you know, I kind of changed their niches, but I kind of explained what I did for them and why I gave them revenue streams that they hadn't thought about. And I think that's maybe why it was so interesting to viewers is that's the most comment I got was I didn't even know this was possible for me. >> So, but like in the video itself, did you talk about a client you worked with who did get a $100 million YouTube exit? And then you also talked about >> other creators. Did they also exit or >> Oh, no. They're they're just on the on the path, >> right? Okay. So mentioning that right because we have packaging versus idea um inside of the video versus outside of the of the video. The outside of this video, why people clicked on this video is probably because they were really interested in in what does a $100 million YouTube exit look like? What does that say about the industry? Who did this? How did they do this? These are curiosity gaps which are created and we're kind of digging into packaging, title and thumbnail which we'll get into later. Um, how are we going to get through all five of these things? >> I don't know. [laughter] You guys brought your lunches, right? Um, so the reason why people clicked on that is probably a different curiosity gap than the main value that they actually received after watching this video. So they came for what was this $100 million exit? How did this happen? What channel was it? Who did they sell to? Like what's the plans? like that's why they probably came. But then once they were in it, they're like, \"Oh, hey, I didn't realize I was going to learn about all these things that I can do to grow my like my own channel's valuation. I didn't even know that was possible.\" So that's all the comments that you're getting. And that's why I think that for an idea, I do think that the the fact that this resonates so much with people, that's a little bit about the concept of remarkability, like what it what does it mean to be remarkable? means that something is novel enough to be remarked upon. And so the fact that people are leaving all of these comments being like, \"Wow, I didn't even know this. I didn't even know this.\" That was novel information to them, that was remarkable to them. But that does not mean that that is the main thing that is going to get them to click in the first place necessarily. More so that we we don't have proof of that from that video. Maybe we can go out and we can find different videos that package it and frame it in that way. But if we can't, then what you got with this from this video is people are interested in these big sexy exits. So, if we can package more video around big sexy exits, like maybe each one talks about one big sexy exit that has happened and then talks about maybe these or potentially we can frame it in a way where the packaging itself is around a hypothetical sexy exit that the viewer doesn't know is hypothetical until after they click on the video, but it's satisfying and useful enough to them that they don't feel click baited. But those that's more of a packaging conversation than an idea gener uh conversation to I guess wrap this up when it comes to the idea section itself. You have your idea. Great. Uh two things that we're going to look at. Uh one, what is the TAM on this? And I think that I would say you probably have enough proof of prior su of success to at least try this format again. It seems like people really liked it. It seems like it got a lot of views. At least enough. It depends on what your own view goal is, but it sounds like this is like if you have more videos like that. That would be a great idea. Um, I would maybe look to see is anybody else also making videos around YouTube valuation, YouTube exits. See if those if no one else is doing that, that can be your remarkability factor. And that's one of those things where just because proof of prior su success does not exist does not mean that it's a bad idea. It just means that maybe you need to create your own proof of prior success. It might be a little bit more risky, but you already have some from your own video. So, I would say I I I would green light that idea. I would work on the packaging of it, but I would green light that idea. >> Are you going to say something? >> There there's a lot there that you just said that we have to slow down. We had to pump the brakes a little bit. >> Okay. >> First, I just have to address you put a lot of sauce in there when you're like, \"Oh, who's this? Who?\" the way you said that part, you know, when you were saying that the title, the hundred million dollar YouTube exit had a lot of hooks that create this curiosity gap. >> Did you notice how her body language changed? So, she's like embodying the the the the end user, the viewer. >> Here's the one thing I want to point out to everybody. >>
1 Sometimes we have hits and we think we know why it's a hit, but we actually don't. That's why it's so hard to have, you know, sequels that are equally as good as the original. We think we know what it is. And that's one thing that she brought up. It might have been this. It could have been several different things. But I think the hundred million dollar YouTube exit has a lot of novelty in it in the title. So that would get you over their first hurdle, which is get people to watch the content. Then you delivered the goods, but as because I haven't seen the video, it may or may not have delivered on the promise of the hook. So now we go and replicate the ingredient. And then we can either find out really quickly if it was the video or it was the hook that got people in. Right. >> Yeah. So, so yeah, it's like okay, do you is it exactly what you were saying? Was it the format and the way in which you delivered this value, the the reason why this video did so well or was it the outside? Was it the packaging? Was it the like the big sexy exit framing that made the video do so well? And then I would experiment. I would try both of those two things and see which one of those gets closer to replicating the success of that first one. >> So now you want to say something and then Gwen wanted to say something. >> So the case study, you know, that's probably a few videos down the road because I I do want to experiment a little more to see what from this video made it do well. So the next one is already I already recorded. It's being edited right now. The title is something in the R realm of views will not get you to 100 million exit, right? And that that the idea that huge views or huge numbers, that's not what like AdSense and brand deals, that doesn't get you to the $und00 million exit. That's what most YouTubers don't understand, right? It's actually other revenue streams. It's a product launch. It's a technical app. Those are the things that get you to 100 million. Something I'll say with this the framing. So the what what was the exact title of the first video? >> Uh 100 million dollar YouTube exit. >> And then the title of the second video is >> views will not get you to $100 million exit. >> I'm I'm I'm going to test you. Uh [laughter] >> what's the difference between those two titles? >> Oh snap. This is an open-ended question >> in terms of specifically >> the curiosity gaps that were created by those two titles. >> All right. Shoot. I was just sipping my tea. My Asian sisters are feeling the my the heat that you just threw on me right now in in this room. Right. Okay. What's the difference between those two? First, let me write [laughter] Sorry. Well, your second title is why views won't get you a $100 million exit. >> Views will not get you to a hundred million exit. Okay, I like this. Do you guys know that? Do you know why they're not the same? Do you maybe? No, I'm not asking you to tell me the answer. She's like, Chris, I asked you the question and you just threw it to the audience. No. Do you know? Oh, but do you say yes? You kind of know. Rox, you know. Gwen, do you know? Drigo, you know. No, I I know. [laughter] I know. Okay. $100 million YouTube exit has this like what? I didn't even know that was possible. Which YouTuber has all those things that she said. And when you said views will not get you to $100 million exit, I'm like duh duh. Because if I had a lot of views that there's not that same surprise factor and the curiosity is now not so great. >> I bet you if you rephrase that a couple different ways, you can create a stronger curiosity gap to hit a higher TAM. My answer is different from yours. >> Okay. >> Um, $100 million YouTube exit. There is that novelty factor there of somebody hit a $100 million YouTube exit. The curiosity apps created. Who was it? How did this happen? How long did it take them to get there? Who did they sell to? Uh, it's notice that a lot more of these questions are around the piece of remarkable news. itself views will not. So the audience of that is people in industry who are just interested potentially in the creator economy as a whole. That would be news to them. They w
1ould watch that video. Views will not get you to $100 million exit. Audience is not now to everyone in creator economy. audiences specifically you as a YouTuber who are already looking for an exit like you are already thinking about oh I'm thinking about exiting my channel and I'm thinking about exiting my channel for a lot of money you know or I might be thinking about exiting my channel one day but again large majority of people are not actively interested in exiting their channels or not actively thinking about it right now to the point where if it came up on their homepage, they would be like, \"Oh, yeah. I'm interested in that.\" And click. So, can you see how the audience of these things are different? And the curiosity apps are different. The curiosity gap of the second one is what will get me to a $100 million exit, which is still a curiosity gap. And once again, we're saying views are not the only goal. So if you want to decrease the type of person who is watching this video to only people who are personally interested in exits in order to convert to your own offer, then that is something that's worth considering. But just that is kind of what the difference between those two things are. >> And that is actually my goal. Bigger views is not better conversion. I want I want those creators who want to exit because I want to talk to them and I want them to come talk to me and potentially work with me because I have billiondoll funds who want to buy YouTube channels and we do not have enough inventory. That's my biggest pain point right now. Yeah. So, I think we're we're we're going to talk through packaging next and we should get going on packaging. We're already talking about this. I I would still pro I would still package this video in a different way, but I like the idea for all the reasons you mentioned for what your purpose of these videos are, for the concept that other people have been really interested in the topic of exits. I think the angle we can still work on, but like the topic of YouTube exits and big YouTube exits, validated, love it. The format of case studies, validated, love it. The angle is something that we can tweak and we'll talk about that in packaging. Don't love it, not validated. >> What? No, >> I'm just kidding. Because you did two love it and validated it. The third has to be don't love it, don't not validate it. >> Just following the pattern here. I'm on the train. >> Yeah. The the the the angle uh not necessarily validated yet, I
1would say. >> Yeah. Going with you. >> The angle of the concept of views will not get you like that concept of that angle. I think I might switch into for instance like you know I how this YouTuber tripled her valuation or tripled her exit. That's another case study but a different type of angle on that. So but we'll talk about packaging with that. >> You have to say to the mic otherwise it doesn't exist. >> You're a genius. >> Thank you April. >> Thank you. Oh you're talking about April. >> Yes. >> Oh okay. >> Clear. Clearly >> I'm just catching on. Okay. [snorts] Let's go to number two. Let's go to number two, titles. So, let's say you have your idea selected. You've generated a bunch of ideas. You've filtered it down. You're like, \"Okay, this is feasible. This aligns with with with my brand. This idea is selected. I want to make this idea. What comes next?\" A lot of people will jump straight into making the idea first, uh, like making the video first. And I think that's fine. I actually like I I I it's very common YouTube advice. You may have heard like make sure you make your title and thumbnail first. Why do a lot of people say this? Well, because your video doesn't matter if no one clicks on your video. You can make the most well polished, the most beautiful, the most valuable, the most like heart-wrenching, emotional masterpiece of a video, but if no one clicks on it, it doesn't matter because no one's ever going to watch it. So that's why a lot of people like to work on their title and thumbnail first because if they cannot come up with a clickable enough title and thumbnail, then what's the point of even investing all the time to make the video? So that's why a lot of especially the bigger YouTubers will do this. I understand that in reality it's tough, especially if you're doing things yourself to be like, \"Oh, I have to come up with my title and thumbnail first before I do everything else.\" That's not realistic for a lot of people. However, title and thumbnail very high leverage. I think most people do not spend nearly enough time thinking about their titles and thumbnails. And even if you don't do it first, this is still one of the highest leverage places to put more of your time and effort in. So, that's why titles and thumbnails are so important. And we'll talk about titles first. >> Let's do it. >> Most people think that your title is what your video is about. That is not true. Your title is the presentation of your video that will best get people to click on your video and be satisfied watching your video. It's kind of like I can have a present and the present could be um some broccoli and I could just say, \"Hey Chris, I have I have some broccoli. Do you want this broccoli?\" And Chris might be like, \"Okay, sure.\" But he's not going to be very excited about it. And he might be like, \"Ew, no. Why Why would I want broccoli? I want chocolate instead.\" Versus if I tell Chris, \"Hey, Chris, I have something that is going to increase, I don't know, your lifespan by >> a testosterone.\" >> Is that is that what what broccoli does? >> No. >> Okay. But >> Well, you're just giving an example. Broccoli doesn't increase your lifespan either. >> Okay. Well, okay. >> Uh, hey Chris, I'm going to What is happening? >> What the [Â __Â ] is going on? Asian women in their snacks. Can you just open all your snacks right now? Not only open it. Just open it right now. Is it open? Drile. We have to make a new rule. It's like the movie theater. Only silent snacks. [laughter] People bring in their crinkly bags. All right. Go ahead. >> Good. Um, so yeah, I guess I don't know enough about broccoli to know what what broccoli does, but let's say for instance, it is something that would increase his testosterone. I'm like, \"Hey, Chris, um, do you want to increase your testosterone? I have something for you if you do.\" And then Chris is like, \"Yeah, yeah, I do actually.\" Cuz that it aligns with something like a desire that he wants. Then it could be like, \"Okay, here's your present.\" And then he'll open it, be like, \"Wait, it's broccoli.\" And then I'll tell him, \"Yeah, this is all the cool things about broccoli and how this relates to your testosterone.\" He's like, \"Oh, sweet.\" He's going to feel a lot better about eating the broccoli. So that's kind of what a title does. It's not just point blank saying, \"This is what my video is about.\" It's presenting the video in the way that a viewer would feel happy clicking on it and feel happy having watched it. Let's talk about titles and getting titles right. And once again, we're going to talk about generating titles first and then criteria of what makes for a good title. First of all, similar to ideas, most people are not making nearly enough titles for their video. Most people think about one, two, maybe max three titles for a video. You should be coming up with at least 20 to 30 title variations per video that you make. I know that sounds like a lot. I know that sounds like a lot of work. It's not that bad. You can do all of this within 30 minutes of a brainstorming session. Like it does not have to be that long, probably less. How would you do that? Well, one, I
1would spend the first five minutes just brainstorming from your head. Okay, here is what my video is about. I'm just going to like brainstorm all the titles that you can think of. Great. After those five minutes are done, maybe you only have five titles. That's better than two. Amazing. Second, set another timer and this time it's going to be like for another five, maybe 10 minutes. And this does require a little bit of pre-work before. There's this concept called your model five channels. And what this is are channels that make a similar type of video as you do, a similar format, let's say. So if you make educational tutorials, this is another channel who also makes educational tutorials. If you are making breakdown case studies, these are another channel who does breakdown case studies, but these are people. Try not to pick people who are in the exact same niche as you are. Try not to pick people who are doing the same topics as you are because you don't want to rip them off too much because that's just like a not so great thing to do. Like we like taking inspiration from people but not just stealing from them. So for instance, I could be like, okay, like one of my model channels is Ali Abdal. I make educational kind of like how-to videos and breakdowns. Sometimes Ally will do the same thing. I talk about YouTube, he talks about productivity. And when I look at these channels, what am I looking for? I'm looking at their videos. I'm trying to extract formats. So, let's say Ally makes a video titled How to be more productive without having time. That's a really bad title. But like pretend pretend he he has like a video like that and that video has a bajillion views. I can take that and be like, hm, that's really interesting. How can I extract a format with that from that title? It is how to blank without blank. And I think okay, this is a format that he's done. How could I apply that to the video that I'm thinking about titling right now? And so that's when I would spend again the I I would have pre-written down my five channels I like to check and I would uh spend 5 to 10 minutes just looking at their channels, looking at their videos and seeing if there are any title formulas that they've used in their videos that I might be able to apply to my topic and my idea that I'm working on after that. So now we're like 10 15 minutes into our brainstorming session. I'm going to set another 5 to 10 minute timer and this time I'm going to look at outliers. So, there are tools I like to use for this. I personally like using a tool called one of 10. Uh, it's a YouTube tool and basically instead of you having to manually search for outliers, it presents them all for you. And I'll look up my topic in one of 10 and I'll spend again five 10 minutes just scrolling through how are these videos talking about this topic positioned. Are there any similar words that pop out either in their title or in their thumbnail? So, maybe I'm I'm doing something. I'm like, hm, I realize that they use days a lot. Like, it's it's all about like I'm seeing lot many videos that are outliers on this that talk about 30 days or 9 months or some sort of time frame. Maybe I should think about, can I fit some sort of time frame into my video title, which the upside of doing this before making your video is maybe you might see something there that sparks an idea or you want to even transform your video to make it better positioned. So maybe my original idea didn't have any sort of time element in it, but I'm saying, wait, there are a lot of similarities here. A lot of these power words are related to time. Maybe I should adjust my video idea so it has some sort of time element as well because it's all of this within 90 days. Great. So that's what your next 5 to 10 minutes is. And then finally, your last five minutes, take everything that you've generated in those first 20 minutes, 25 minutes or so, pop in the chat GPT. Now, I have lots of thoughts around using CHBT and AI for video creation. This specific way I like using it to be like, hey, this is what my video is about. These are title ideas that I've generated so far. These are what I like about my ideas. These are what I don't like about my ideas.
1Can you give me 50 more? And then Chachbt will give you a lot. I like giving it your list first because it'll tend to use simil similar formulas or similar power words that you've already picked up in your list and apply it to their own versus like chatbt just asking it to give you a YouTube title. Terrible. It will not stop using colons. It's bad. Terrible. But that's why we give it everything else that you've already generated so far. See it typically from that I'll come up with like another maybe five 10 that I like. And by the end of this period, I will have at least 30 title ideas for my video in under 30 minutes. So that's how I would start with generating that volume of titles. >> So the thing that you're talking about titles and studying other the model 5 channels, >> what you're referencing there, I believe, is um headline copyrightiting 101, which is if you use RO format, are you familiar with this? >> ROT. No. >> Okay. RO stands for results, objections, and timeline. >> And you can do it in any order. You can do just one, and sometimes you could do two or all three. So, learn Spanish as a result. The objection is even if you've never spoken a foreign language before, and in nine weeks would be the time. And you could do it in nine weeks, learn how to speak Spanish, even you could do it in any order. And you could just play around with that. So, copywriters know this basic copywriting, RO for headline. And that's what we're talking about right now. >> Yes. Yeah. Um, and you know that different channels will have different formulas and you can just kind of put yours into that and it can really work. So after this point you have 30 plus titles. Great. How do you choose which one is the right one? Fun fact, you don't have to choose just one. You can choose up to three because we have AB testing in titles and thumbnails. But some overall title rules to help you narrow it down. One, in general, I'm not going to give you an exact number, but in general, the shorter the title, the betterish. Try to [snorts] keep it under I know I just said I wouldn't give you a number, but try to keep it under 65 characters if you can. It's less of a hard and fast rule. What matters more than length is skimmability. So, the problem with really long titles is that people are going to be looking at your title, like they are just scrolling on their phone or really like browsing or it's on the sidebar of a video and they just like glance over for like half a second ever so often. So, if your title is too long and they cannot skim it, they are not going to read it. And it's just as well as not having any title at all. So in general, the shorter the title, the easier it is to skim. And also to that point, if people are skimming your titles, you want to keep the more curiosityinducing, the more important words towards the first half of the title, specifically in the upper left corner because we read left to right, top to bottom. So in the upper left corner of your title, you want the more important words there. the worst place for an important word is going to be at the bottom right because like we don't we we barely get to that point anyway. So just like read make sure that your most important words are there first and make sure that your title opens some sort of curiosity gap. I've mentioned this term before. What is a curiosity gap? A curiosity gap is the gap between what we currently know and what we want to know. It's kind of like a unfinished story or a question without an answer. Your title should invoke some sort of questions for your viewers. For instance, let's say a title is, let's take Tyler's example actually. Um, so we have uh this this concept of like uh how this YouTuber doubled her valuation, let's say. Okay, like what are the questions that come up from this? Okay, how did she double her valuation? What was her valuation before? What was it after? Like what were the things that she did? Um maybe some like supplementary questions of did she sell, who did she sell to, why did she do this? But the biggest curiosity gap is going to be how did she double her valuation? And that was like the is the largest curiosity gap. Uh in general, your title should evoke at least one major curiosity gap. And the stronger the question, the more the viewer wants to know the answer to that question, the better the title is going to be. We've used a lot of educational examples in this talk so far, but this goes for entertainment as well. So, let's say you have um you know, like I tried making like I tried eating a pizza every day for 30 days. Okay, this is not an educational video whatsoever. You're watching this for pure entertainment. What's a curiosity gap that comes from this title? What happened? What happened to you after 30 days of eating a pizza every day? That's probably the biggest question that comes from that, which gets them to click. There also some supplemental questions like why did you do this? Maybe what kind of pizza did you eat? But most people are not going to be interested in that. Most people are going to be in what was the result of eating a pizza every day for 30 days. That is the curiosity gap. And if your title does not have a curiosity gap, if you're looking at that that title and like you kind of have to guess of like like maybe this is the question that they'll have to get them to click, it's probably not a strong enough title. >>
1 Do you put in there also in your rules for titles to use simple language versus complicated language? >> 100% 100%. This this kind of goes to skimability as well. Like in general, try to aim for a fifth grade reading level or below was pretty standard. But if you want that high TAM, you want a lot of people to be able to understand what your video is about. And if you use really complex technical language, it'll probably turn off a lot of people who just maybe are not familiar with that or get intimidated by that. So yeah, the more simple and simple is more skimable as well. So, also shorter words, ma maybe there's a word that is within a fifth grade reading level, but it's like 15 characters long. See if you can find a synonym that's only 10 characters long or less. >> All right. Do we have questions for April on this part? >> So, when it comes to title, um, when is a good time to use complex title, complex wording over simple wording? I would say there are a couple of reasons why you would. One is if you are talking about the thing itself that is very technical. Like let's say you're making a programming tutorial and you're talking about a specific thing. Especially when it comes to searchbased versus browsebased browse-based titles, people are coming at it and they are typically not already aware like they are not actively looking for this video. They are maybe as we can say like problem aware but not solution aware. they are aware that they have a certain problem that they might want to solve um passively but they are not actively looking for a solution. Uh this goes for again both educational with literal problems and entertainment when it comes into the problem of like I want to be entertained but they're not searching for something specific to entertain them. But when it comes to solution aware, this is when if someone is very solution aware and that solution is something that is technical, then I would put that technicality in the title because usually they're searching for it. And so you want to use that technical term in your title so it shows up in search results. >> So how often can you optimize your title for SEO? And what is like the best strategy? >> How often can you optimize? You can do it with every video if you want to. Um, it depends on what your goals are and what your strategy is. I suppose I think that there are a couple of reasons when you would go for search. One, when you are just beginning is a great time to go for search results because the odds of you making a great enthalling piece of content that will beat out in interest everyone else on someone's homepage is probably pretty low. But the odds of you making a video about a specific problem that is better than other people's videos on that specific problem are higher if your problem is specific enough. When you're searching for what to rank for, you're looking for keywords with a high search volume and low competition. There are in general tools that can help you find this. Like I think like Vid IQ and TubeBuddy both have free extensions that can you can like look for search terms and see how they rank in that. Um but that's kind of it's it is a different strategy to go for search versus browse. Uh in general the most views on YouTube come from browse based videos. And even in my own experience and the experience of many of of the other creators that I've worked with most of their videos that even do do well in search eventually also do well in browse. And so I think that search is a great way if you're like, \"Okay, I have a specific video that I want to make. I know that there's a lot of search volume for this thing or maybe just like, hey, I really want people who are interested in specifically this thing to click on my video.\" That's a great time to optimize for it. Otherwise, in general, I would say aim for browse first and maybe just take a little peep into the search results. maybe add a like change a keyword or put some stuff in your in your description or spoke in your video out loud to try to rank for that search result. >> I want to clarify something because I thought you said it one way but then you said it a different way afterwards. So when someone is browsing, they're not solution aware. >> Mhm. >> Not when they were searching. Just wanted to clarify. >> Yeah. So they you you were solution aware when you were searching. >> Yes. Yeah. I just want to clarify. Okay. In case I heard it wrong. Woo. We got through two. >> Two. >> Amazing. Okay, let's let's do one more. >> One more. >> I think we can do one more. >> Are you okay? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You sure? >> Yeah. No, I'm I'm I'm just the the the last three are all my favorite. So, it's tough. >> Let's do all of them. >> Okay. >> How can we improve this title? Here's the title. Once you learn this, clients, stop choosing your competitors. >>
1 I might flip it. Clients will stop choosing your competitors once you learn this because you have the most important part first. Um there are three main click triggers um or like click click yeah click triggers or emotions of why people click in the first place. There's desire, fear, and curiosity. Desire is because they want something to happen. They want to get that thing. If I'm telling Chris about this thing that I have and I like, oh, his desire is to increase his testosterone, I want to package it around that. And there's fear. You want to avoid something. So I was say, hey, Chris, if you don't want to die in the next 30 years, you should probably eat this. It's like, okay, he's something he's really concerned about. That's going on his fear. There's that. Then there's overall curiosity. Again, it's these are the things like novelty of like, oh, this is something that's really interesting. The curiosity gap that is opened. What happened after this guy ate 30 pizzas in 30 days? That's curiosity. So for you, your clients will stop choosing your competitors after you learn this or something, you know, once you learn this. Is that the thing that they're afraid of or are they actually afraid about losing money? Are they afraid about growing too slowly? Like what is the main fear there? They have a lot of fears, but the video specifically addresses a way that you can win when you're in a competitive bid situation. >> Okay. And do you think that is the audience for this are they already got problems aware solution aware? Are they already aware of the solution of like, okay, like I like my my [clears throat] problem is maybe I'm not growing fast enough and I know that it's because I'm losing clients to competitors. Therefore, I need to go and find something to help me not lose clients to competitors. >> I I think they're problem aware, but they might not phrase it that way. They're just like, I'm losing bids. That's probably the most base way I can think of it. Are they are they phrasing it as they're losing bids? >> I'm losing jobs. I'm losing clients. >> Okay. >> Those are all things that they would probably say. >> Okay. Um then then yeah, I I I I would say that's if that's like the thing that is that they are like aware of and that's like their fear that they are trying to avoid, then you could title it around that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I want to take it back to this thing and I you gave me some ideas. So you you say like the curiosity can exist I think in desire, fear and cur Oh I'm sorry. What would you what was the category for these three? >> Desire, fear, curiosity. >> But what was the category? What did you say that there's three things that >> click triggers? >> Click triggers. Thank you. All right. >> Yeah. This this was also not my term invented by me. This was a term invented by Jake Thomas who's like a great YouTube titles guy by the way. >> Legal disclaimer. We're done. Okay. a click trigger, desire, fear, and curiosity. So, I want to get back to the example. I mean, hypothetically speaking, Chris wants testosterone. >> Chris wants to what? >> Chris wants testosterone, >> right? >> Back to broccoli. >> So, uh do this to boost your testosterone. That's the desire. >> The fear version of that is um something around not having enough testosterone, why you're losing muscle mass. >> Yeah, exactly. And the curiosity could be um two things you can do that are natural that'll boost your testosterone. >> Yeah. >> So I just wanted to stick with like desire, fear, and curiosity around the same topic versus pizza. >> Well, yeah. >> Testosterone is something else. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I'd say curiosity. This is again I know nothing about testosterone but like you know like milk milk versus protein shake testosterone challenge as like an idea of like okay like you know you the idea of you are drinking you know do you have you have two people they are each drinking this thing and seeing who is testosterone is increased most. So you're you're thinking of like you know uh two ways to naturally uh increase your testosterone. I would still say that's desire. I see. There's still the desire to increase it and maybe increase it naturally versus curiosity is is less so based in in a desire but more so around what is the outcome. >>
1 Do you guys get that? >> Explain that back to me. >> Right. The there the desire is the outcome being I have more testosterone. Right? So, like if they're chasing an outcome and this video is describing how to get that outcome, that's a desire. But she's not describing in the in the latter half of, you know, it's protein shake versus something. They're not necessarily chasing an outcome. They're just more so entertained around a topic. More so interested in a subject that is less specific. So, it's like, oh, cool. I wonder which of those two things is better as opposed to I'm coming to this video to learn how to get protein. >> Yeah. It's it's it's it's it's less of a how can I do this thing or how can I get this thing and it's more of a what happens is curiosity. >> Okay. What happens? >> Cuz I would argue that the outcome is still the same. I'm not tuning in to milk versus protein bars for any other reason to know which one is better for me to reach an outcome. >> Yes. >> But your your description of like what happens? >> It's the type of curiosity gap. So for instance like you know one like how to increase your testosterone in just 20 days. The curiosity gap is desire based because the main question you get from that is how can I increase my testosterone that quickly for something that is you know like let's say like a competition between two people brother verse sister testosterone challenge you you look at that and the main curiosity gap is who will win or like who testosterone will increase the most or what will increase the testosterone the most but it's not that that's more curiosity versus the main thing being desired. I guess the reason why they care could be because they want to increase their testosterone, but that's not the main point of the curiosity gap. >> Okay, perfect. Let's move on to number three. >> Thumbnails. I love thumbnails. Okay, let's talk about thumbnails. >> Apparently, other people love it, too. >> Um, thumbnails are thumbnails are [clears throat] always fun to talk about verbally because they usually involve pictures that we can just visualize all together. Thumbnails work with your titles to help open curiosity gaps and get people to click. We already talked about why they're so important. I don't have to rehash that. A lot of people get really stuck with thumbnails because there's a lot of different directions that you can go with your like 1080 by 1920 pixelated rectangle like what do you put in there? And I would say the biggest thing to start with is once again kind of going with your titles. What are the main curiosity apps that you want to create? So, let's go back to say how to increase your testosterone in 20 days. Great. What are like that? That's the main curiosity app that's created here. What are like the you start with your contents. So, what are the elements that you could put into your thumbnail? and you think about what are maybe images, visuals or text phrases that can help contribute to this curiosity gap. So let's take their example how to increase your testosterone in 20 days. Uh we have 20 days. So maybe some element of a calendar for instance could visualize 20 days. How can testosterone be visualized? Maybe there's like a pill or supplement or something. Maybe it's like muscle and that is how you visualize testosterone. Then how can you visualize an increase? Maybe there can be a before and an after as an instance. Um and that is like one type of like comparison thumbnail that you can have. There's maybe the like the the result itself. There are a few different main thumbnail formats that you can look at. So one is the result. So you just show the results. Show So you show someone being super jacked and say in just 20 days or something and like that is you're you're very visually seeing the result. You can visually see a transformation. So it's like a result but it has a before. So you see like what is the before state and what is the after state. That's another type of thumbnail. You can do a novelty thumbnail which is just showing something that people have never seen before. That's like another thing that typically goes well with a curiosity based curiosity gaps. Let's see. There's there's comparison thumbnails. So, it's not a it's not a transformation. It's on a before and after, but maybe it's like a left and a right. It's a this person just drank milk and this person just drank a protein shake. You're showing them on the left or the right. A like a tier list is also an example of like a type of comparison thumbnail where you're showing many different things. And I think when you're thinking about from the base, what sort of curiosity gap do you want to invoke? What thumbnail format can best fit that curiosity gap? And what different visual elements can best represent the elements that go into this video or the parts of the title. So that's where I would start in terms of contents. >> Okay. Can we apply this to Tyler's example? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, her next video is going to be called what? >> Let's say her next video could be like uh how insert YouTuber here doubled her YouTube valuation maybe in just one year. Is that >> So, the problem is the video is already done. Mhm. >> I focused on sort of the reasons why views will not get you to 100 million, right? Um, so how do we package that in a way knowing the video's already done and the next video I will do that? I will go find somebody where I was able to double or triple their valuation. But I never want to clickbait my audience. So, I I want to make sure the video the title >> What is the video about? >> It's about how you have to launch a product basically and um why views like AdSense and brand deals will not get you to that exit. An actual product launch will. >> Great. Okay. So, there are a couple of ways that we can go about this. So, first let's start with the contents. Let's start with the visual
1s. Okay. So, uh, I see a $100 million valuation. How can we represent that? Well, there's the text. You could literally write dollar sign 100 million. Um, maybe having that be in like green. There's just the visual of like money. So, like cash stacks or some sort of money stacks could be visuals with that. Um, you're talking about so views. How can views be represented? Maybe there's like a down arrow or an up arrow or like the the the UI the the the familiar UI that every YouTuber knows of like the you know viewers are higher than average or lower than average with the green arrow or the gray down arrow. Um that's like one way to visualize views. How else can you visualize views? Well, there's the the like uh if someone has high views, they probably have a YouTube play button. They might have like a a a silver one, a gold one. They might have a diamond one. What other ways of like visualizing success in views could be like the the verify check mark that people get if they've done really well if they have like over 100k on YouTube. Those are some things that pop into my mind. But we're not just talking about how it doesn't. So that is like success, but maybe how can we visualize that that is not working. Maybe it's it's like lots of views, but maybe that's like grayed out. Maybe another thing that just popped into my mind because we're talking about this is a whiteboard. We're you're talking about like uh you know what this doesn't but this does. And so maybe you're holding a whiteboard or having some some sort of whiteboard with the bottom or top having the $100 million valuation and under it you're like writing down all of these small things that do contribute to it. And maybe views is even like xed out or something and then all of these other things are underneath it, for instance. Or some sort of comparison there of like high views and like uh $100,000 valuation and then all of these other things $100 million valuation. Maybe that's visualized on a whiteboard. Maybe that's visualized on the thumbnail itself. Um, what I'm getting from this is it's probably not enough to have just the views and the sad valuation. You probably want some sort of teaser of what does, which goes into that curiosity app. Okay, views don't do this. So, what does Can we give them like a little bit of a teaser in the thumbnail to show them something that they that it doesn't give it away? They should not be able to guess the answer by just looking at the thumbnail because otherwise, why would they click? But tease is something that they don't understand yet, but they want to understand and then they click on the video to understand that thing or to understand what that thing means. So that's kind of how I would think about like the contents in terms of what is what are the elements being shown, which is the first step of thumbnail generation is like what do we want to even visualize? What are my options of things that I can even put on this canvas to make my thumbnail? Tyler, you have a any feedback or follow-up questions? >> So, I was taught the across the room test, right? That you should be able to see a thumbnail across the room and know what's it it's about. So, I typically don't do any visuals on my thumbnails. It's usually me, my face, and then so for the last one, I actually wrote out a 100red million. I wrote out all the all the zeros, right? And then I wrote um I think YouTube channel and I did repeat YouTube in title. I said 100 million you but I did I counted as like 16 characters, right? I did you know the dollar sign one 1000m YouTube exit 16 characters. It was really short and I knew kind of my spidey senses when it was short it was going to do well. So, this next one, um, I don't quite know like what to I you just gave me a lot of great information, but it it seemed really busy in my mind, like all these things on a whiteboard. Could you see that across the room and actually understand what that is? And maybe it's the views being grayed out and that that's like kind of the primary. >> Yeah. So, I'll say for one, everything that that I said, you don't have like >> don't put all of that into one thumbnail, right? So, so I I start with like these are options. So, that's like step one. Step two will be let's put let's combine some of these elements onto this to see because you know one one element could be your face. One element might not even be your face. So, like there to to represent a $100 million exit um or a valuation or a low valuation, maybe you're taking you're showing YouTubers with uh who like if you talk about them. If you don't talk about them, don't show them. that maybe for the future you can show a very familiar YouTuber who maybe has a high valuation or maybe has a not so great valuation because they're not doing things right yet or valuation that could be lower could go into the familiarity bias there. What you're talking about is like I I I have a similar test called the glance test, right? So if someone sees this for only like two seconds, would they be able to see what was on it or make sense of it? When it comes to this, it kind it's if your words are meant to be read, they should be legible and very skimable in that time, but not every element in a thumbnail needs to be completely seen. So for instance, let's say you had some sort of like whiteboard
1with an equation of like or or or or not even like a whiteboard like uh something like blank plus blank plus blank equals 100 million. like that by itself can maybe be on the top and you could like see what that is and then maybe on like underneath that you have some visuals that people don't really know what they mean but they don't have to you don't have to be able to read everything if it's not meant to like a whiteboard that has a bunch of stuff drawn on it is not meant for people to like see every single element they're supposed to see oh there's stuff here to learn and that is like the element is is in and of itself the thing um another instance I'm thinking about for your hundred million dollar valuation too you're talking about what views doesn't so for instance it can maybe even be like a pie chart or a donut chart with different colored elements around it each adding up to a hundred million and the smallest one you can see is views and maybe that's labeled views and that is the thing that that they see but they instantly see, oh, look at all of this other stuff around it that makes up a big a much bigger portion of the 100 million, but what are those things? You click to figure out what those things are. So, I don't know if that fully answers your question, but but basically, yes, thumbnails should be understandable at a glance. It should not be in order to understand this image, you have to spend a long time looking at it. But that's different from you have to be able to individually know in a read and understand every element in this thumbnail within two seconds. Do you see that difference? >> I'm going to be sending you money later for this session because it's [laughter] amazing. Um >> I'll give you my Venmo later. >> No, no, hers. >> Oh, sorry. I thought you were looking at me. Um, April, one of your best performing videos has that amazing like um like that color scheme in the back. Do can you can you talk about that because it's so compelling and it's such a good thumbnail and I think >> Wait, before we get to that, can we land this plane? >> Oh, okay. >> The [clears throat] ladies on the trains, you know, they just want to go to another train. >> Yes. Um, very quickly to to drill in on the something plus something equals 100 million. Are the two things actual words that they get to see or are we blurring them out so they don't actually know what they are? They could be blurred. I actually don't love blurs in thumbnails that much. They just never look great. For some reason, they never look great. You you could pixelate them. Um, you could like put boxes over them. You could just leave leave it blank. just had like underline plus underline equals thing and there's just nothing there. >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> I'm good. I I have my thumbnail now. >> Let's break down what I did. So, we we what what we started with was once again thinking about what are the different elements that we could use to visualize this thing. We got a little bit deeper into like not just her title, her title is like views are not this, which makes me think okay what is then? So how can we visualize some sense of there is a greater hole here and views are maybe not contributing the majority to this thing to show what is. So that's why my mind pie chart or donut chart that is all actually just step one in the thumbnail process. Um the step two after this becomes composition. So we have our contents now we need our composition. We got to figure out where do things go. And when I think about composition, you think about what elements do you want the viewer to see first? Where do you want your attention to go? What is the most important thing? In Tyler's case, in that instance, it's either the text itself or what's probably going to be is like whatever the chart is, for instance, like that. That's going to be the main visual. We want that to be seen first. If we want things to be seen first, we want to put it there are a couple of different places we can put it. Uh things in the center tend to be seen first. So where things are at, things on the top of the thirds tend to be seen first. So those are the two places you want things to be seen first. Your main characters are probably going to go either in the center or in the top. If you just think about hierarchy which is the order in which you see and understand things from composition but composition is not the only or position is not the only place that's not the only way to establish hierarchy. You can also do it through size. So let's say the biggest element of your thumbnail is over on the left third. Even if something is centered but is much smaller, your eye is going to go to the biggest thing first. You can establish hierarchy through position. You can establish hierarchy through size. You can establish hierarchy through things like blur and depth of field, things closer to the camera. You're going to focus on first versus things further away from the camera, foreground, middleground, background. Uh you're going to think about things typically in that order in the way that things are closest to you. Um as long as they're not blurred. So that's kind of what I would think about like where do you want to place things? In general, thumbnail text is very rarely going to be your main character. Why? It's possible you can, but as humans, we interpret and understand and are able to evaluate images much faster than we can read text. So, if possible, you want text to be a supporting character for your thumbnail, not your main character. >> Go ahead, Tyler. >> My question was about using us as sort of edutainers, right? I notice in most of your videos it is your face >> and I use my face because people recognize me as the creator's attorney. So when I tend to use other people's faces like Mr. Beast or whatever, it doesn't tend to do as well. And I love to hear your thought on how do you choose? >> Do you believe in the spirit of like generating 30 titles before you zero in on the one that you're going to use >> me? >> No, no. I'm asking people here like generally we are like that's a good idea right >> if we're going to take this seriously we're not just messing around it's not a hobby we want to get really good >> and we want the video to be seen by as many people as we want it to be seen by yes generally speaking yes >> yes and the one thing I would add to April's um suggestion was to use Gemini because Gemini is owned by YouTube so I'm just saying I do the same I do five or 10 and I feed it through Gemini so if we if we think that's a good idea for titles We probably then logically would then conclude that maybe we have to do the same for the visual
1s. I'm going to throw out a warning for folks. Okay? I've seen a lot of channels, I'm not saying yours is that channel, where they do the minimal. They put your face and they put just all text and the text is the the worst thing is it's redundant to the title itself. So now I'm like doesn't add anything. There's no curiosity here and you're wasting a lot of screen real estate. And when you start to develop in your own personal brand and people recognize your face and they want to see what you have to say when they see the exact same thumbnail with different type sometimes they get confused like did I see this video already and is it's really not that good. So don't waste the opportunity. There is a cliche a picture is worth a thousand words and it's true. If you try to communicate something really complicated with words it will use a lot of words but you can do it with one image even an icon or a symbol. So, what I want you to do, I want to encourage everybody to just open up your mind and take the visual part as seriously as you do the title part. Here's an example. Our most viewed video ever, something about how to price a logo or something like that. I've gone through a 100 different thumbnails and the thumbnail that we were with now isn't even my idea. A young designer, I don't want to say young, a designer, she made a thumb for this thing like visual notes. I'm like, I love that. I messaged her on Twitter back then and said, \"Hey, can I use that idea?\" And the idea was this because before I had my face had all kinds of weird stuff in it. The idea was this. On a balance beam, a scale on the left was a diamond. On the right was an hourglass. What's more valuable? That's all. And and that is then took it to the next next level. And so don't ever rest. just sit there and think how can I communicate this? So, she gave you photographic illustrative symbolic and even symbols and equations and then the pie chart seem to tickle you a little bit. And here's the other thing I want to warn everybody about as as as experienced as we are. We can never predict what them works. We will just try. I'm like, dang, that was really clear to me. And you might do the pie chart, it could just bomb. We just don't know. So, you have to have like idea three, four, five, six, seven ready to go and just drop them in. keep doing tests. In fact, there's a video that we did that Drigo and I had high hopes that would just take off like a rocket ship. It did seven out of 10. That's terrible. But we keep changing it. Different titles, different thumbs. We're at four out of 10 now. We're not going to rest until it becomes one out of 10. And that's the kind of dedication we're talking about. So, a lot of people think the work is done once you record the video or edit it. The work has just begun. plus one to so much of that. I think that it's thumbnails matter so much. YouTube is a visual platform and it is optin content. It's not content that is served for you. It's the main difference between short form versus long form content. On Tik Tok, there's no thumbnail. It doesn't matter what your title is. You you're it's served to you. You're instantly watching on a thumbnail. Literally, as we said before, if people don't choose to click on it, they will not watch it. So, thumbnails are incredibly important. I think that visuals 100% a practical tip. If you're like, I don't even know where to start with this. My producer and I, we always start our thumbnail ideation process by once again looking at our model 5 channels and looking at outliers of similar topics. We're like, okay, what are their visuals? Even if we don't do exactly what they're doing because we don't want to copy, what are visual elements that tend to show up on these things frequently, that's like goes into our like image bank of things that we can add onto there. So it just like helps generate. But 100% visuals whenever you can. Text can be fantastic for supporting things, for labeling things, for clearing things up. Very, very rarely should text be the main character of your thumbnail. If you can avoid it, try to avoid it. Okay, now let's answer Tyler's specific question about what are your thoughts about featuring your face versus other people. >> Yeah, I think that faces in general as a visual image is great as what I call a scroll stopper. So, biologically, humans are wired to pick out and identify faces. That's just the way that we work. We are really good if there's like a completely empty room and there's a face in there. our brain will just find the face amongst the other stuff in the room because we're really really good at that. And within faces, we are even better at identifying familiar faces. So within a sea uh like we're really good of like looking at 50 people and finding our mom or our significant other in that sea. That's just what we're built for. So when it comes to faces in general, great. Our eyes stop on that. Our scroll stops on that. a fam
1iliar face even better. So then it comes the question of which is better the familiar face of the creator or the familiar face of maybe a different YouTuber or a different figure. I would say it unfortunately it kind of depends. What does it depend on? Well, for one, who is the audience that you're trying to reach from this? Uh if it's your own audience who you want to watch this video, great. your own face is probably going to do a lot to be able to bring them in versus someone else's face. If you're trying to reach a broader like a much broader audience than just your own audience, it might be worth putting in like the the other more familiar face. They're going to be a different type of people. I've even seen YouTubers do both. So, in like the first week that a video is out, they'll do their face so they hit all of their audience who already loves and knows them. And once it start to slow down, being pushed out to less people, they'll do that thumbnail swap to the familiar face of the other person that's not them. So, it has a chance of uh being more clicked on by people who might not recognize you as the creator because they don't really watch you very often. But, hey, this face of Mr. Beast, I know who that is. They might click on that. Really quickly, I'll just say the third C of thumbnails. We've talked through content. We've talked through composition. Really quickly, I want to talk through contrast. is like the last way to focus attention or direct attention to make things stand out in a thumbnail is to make thumbnails pop. There are different types of contrast. There's luminosity contrast. If everything else is dark and something is light, the light thing is going to stand out. There's color contrast. If everything is one color and one thing is not, that thing is going to stand out. Specifically, when it comes to complimentary colors, but you don't have to do complimentary colors. And then finally, there's saturation contrast. So, if everything is low saturation, something is high saturation, that high saturation thing will stand out. to Tyler's question and because just because it fits so well in here in my most viral thumbnail, everything was very low saturation grays except for one very highly saturated colorful rainbow color palette element that drew a lot of attention to that one element and that helped that thumbnail stand out. So those three C's of thumbnails, contents, composition contrast. >> Perfect. What's number four? >> Number four is hooks. I'll try to do this quickly. So, after you have your idea and you have your title and you have your thumbnail, fantastic. Let's make your video. We got to start with the beginning of the video. Uh, similar to the logic when it comes to titles and thumbnails, if people don't make it past your first 30 seconds, they're not going to watch the rest of the video you spent so much time and effort on. The largest drop off in your retention graph is going to be those first 30 seconds. So if you can increase that, if you can like decrease that drop off, if you can increase that retention just your first 30 seconds, you will by default increase your retention for the rest of your entire video, which we want to do because average view duration is great when it comes to sending happy signals to the YouTube algorithm. So how do we do that? How do we prevent that drop off? You can never fully prevent it, but you can do things to decrease that drop off. Number one, by far the most important thing to do in your hook is confirm your click in your first five seconds. What does that mean? Well, your title and thumbnail together make what I call the plot promise. The promise of what is this video going to be about? And if in your first 5 seconds you do not mention anything to do with that plot promise, people are going to click off. So if I say this video is going to be about growing a YouTube channel in the first 5 seconds I do not mention growth or YouTube or channel people are going to drop off instantly. So first five seconds you have to confirm your click. I would recommend doing this with your both audibly with your words and also visually with the things that they see on screen. So, if I'm talking about starting a YouTube YouTube channel, the first five seconds should probably see some sort of like YouTube logo maybe on there. Maybe it's like an overlay that you have, maybe I have something YouTube related in the background within like in my background as well, but some sort of like visual to represent can confirm the click. A lot of people scroll over on auto
1play. So, they don't even hear what's being said, but visually they should see they even scroll over autoplay the first five seconds. Ah, yes, this video is going to talk about what I thought they were going to talk about. after your first 5 seconds. A one of the biggest mistakes I see in hooks are people make them way too long. There's this term I like to use called time to value. So what is the length of time it takes before you start giving the viewer the value that they came for. The longer the time to value, the more people are going to drop off. In general, you want to make your intros at least like 30 seconds long or shorter. Any longer than that, you sort of get into the danger zone. Where most people go wrong on this is adding way too much context in the very beginning of their video. Most context you can actually drip feed to them later on as they need it. So really really think about with discernment like does this viewer need to know this piece of context right here right now in this prime spot in the very beginning of my video or can I tell them to to them a little bit later once the value has already begun. Um, and then after your context, what you really want to do, once again, we're talking about curiosity gap. You want to help extend once again rehear like uh reiterate, make that curiosity gap that people want to know even bigger within your intro. Let them know, yes, that was what you clicked for. And once again, we're opening that. So, you want to keep watching until the end. The last thing I'll mention when it comes to intros is really try to frontload your stimulus. So, anything that you associate with a good video, let's say like maybe it's visual effects, maybe it's pacing, maybe it's music, maybe it's a sound effects, maybe it's a visual variety and your shot types changing, any cool thing you do later on your video, make sure you do that cool thing in your intro even more. Otherwise, if it's not there, people are not going to assume it's going to be there later. to really frontload all of your uh all of that stimulus, all of that value that that that signal of value and effort in your intro. I know I said that was the last thing. One last thing to mention about intros as well. Uh some sort of differentiator if possible can be really great to put in your intro. I call this your USP, your unique service proposition. So basically, if there's a lot of other videos on this topic that people can be choosing from, why would they want to watch yours? There's a lot of different types of USPS you can put in there. Maybe it's uh your expertise. So you could say like if you are talking about uh nutrition and food, maybe you can say that you are a certified dietitian. Maybe you you've been studying this for so long. Like what is your expertise that makes you worth listening to on this thing? There was also input bios the efforts like how much effort did you put into this video? Maybe you spent a hundred days working on this video or maybe you you watched a hundred videos to learn for this video like what is the effort that you put in that makes that value more that that makes the video more valuable and makes it worth watching to your viewers. Even just proof. So, if you say you did something and then you prove that you actually did the thing that you said you would do, that can be a great USP as well for people to want to keep watching. So, yeah, I know that was like a lot, but those are general intro thoughts. >> What's the quiz question to throw out the audience? >>
1 Um, >> be ready. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh, what's what's the biggest mistakes that people make in their intros? >> Here we go. Oh, just give me one second. Yeah, go ahead. >> That they don't they spend way too long to get to the point. They don't talk about what they promised in the thumbnail or the title and they don't That's the main thing I remember. >> Yeah. How h how long should your intros be at max? >> 30 seconds or less. >> Great. Yay. >> Another question for them. >> Another question. Uh, what are different ways to signal your unique service proposition in your intro? >> There you go. Throw throw her the mic. She just said this. Um um think of how like look at uh your your model channels and look at how other people are uh differentiating themselves and think of ways how you um uh position yourself and think of you know uh your own differentiators and put it up front. It's my understanding. >> Yeah, those that's that's that's that that's a way. Yeah. >> What is your differentiator? Um, I ran a podcast uh called Two Set AI. I responded to the the channel yesterday. I have no idea what to expect at this event. Sorry I'm late. Was >> No, that's not the question to ask you. >> Sorry. [laughter] I I want to Can I >> No, no, don't don't worry. We're No, no apologies necessary. That should be at the door. >> I interview. >> What is your differentiator? What makes you so special? >> I interview uh AI founders. I'm an AI researcher myself. I live in Silicon Valley and that's what I do. I run a podcast and I want to ask you like I put a trailer of the all the highlights of if I say I interview Crystal I'll I'll put all the uh really insightful things of Crystal said in the interview up front. Uh I want to ask is that the correct way of running a good podcast like the DOAC style? >> Hold on, hold on. Sorry. You still haven't answered my question. You're an AI researcher. >> Yes. >> What are your credentials? What makes you qualified? Um I've been working in AI search um for more than 10 years. I built the first um version of Fargo bot at Wells Fargo. I used to work in a banking industry. Uh I led AI development um over there and I'm also a winner of um anthropic developer tournament. Uh published two books in AI related stuff. >> Okay. Let's just do the shorter version of that. Let's do that one more time. What's your differentiator? What is your name again? Uh, Angelina Young. >> Sorry. Slow down. >> Sorry. Angelina, I'm I'm Angelina Young. >> Angelina. Okay. So, Angelina. >> Yeah. >> What is your differentiator? >> What? >> I'm very honored to meet with you guys. [laughter] >> Go ahead. give us your >> um I try to leverage my extensive experience in AI uh and get get the best stories from people who are actually building AI and helping them to get the you know the the visibility that they deserve as well. >> That's not your differentiator. Can you just hear differentiator for her? [laughter] >> Yeah. Every once in a while Drigo wants to throw himself into the the lines. >> Angelina, [laughter] go ahead. I got this. Go ahead. I want to try. Hey, my name is Angelina. I've been in AI for over 10 years. I built Wells Fargo's first bot and won a competition with Entropic. And today I'm going to interview some of the top founders in AI. >> Perfect. >> Yeah. Little long, but good, right? >> Yeah. So, like I I I I don't think you would need all of that in in your intro, but like the the >> specifically I love I like the expertise of how long you have been in the industry for. Um, I think like that is the strongest the single strongest differentiator for me is how long you've been. Especially because it contrasts so much with like AI. So many people are like, \"Oh, like AI, like I just got into AI six months ago and I'm an expert.\" Like the fact that you've been doing it for 10 years is the single biggest differentiator, like the most important differentiator to me. So that's the thing that I would highlight in your intro. But with that being said, a lot of people like we're going through this as we're looking for designers like I've been designing for 10 years doesn't mean that you're good. So like for her s >> No, but hold on. I already know where you're going with this. AI for the general public's like a new thing >> to say like you're an OG means something. Just by the fact that you were doing AI 10 years ago means you're so far ahead of the curve. >> I did AI before it was cool. With that being said though, the fact that she built the first AI for Wells Fargo or that she won a contest for >> she could have built the first AI for Wells Fargo a year ago. We don't know that. >> But with me, I could say like, \"Hey, I got featured in Gary Ve's book and I work with uh influencers like Chris Doe. Don't you want to tie some kind of name and credibility?\" I'm just trying to say like she done some incredible things along with the team. >> Okay, I got you. She listed five things. Why did you choose I want explain to you one more time. Of the five things she could have listed, why did you choose the one you did? >> Yeah, I would say there are five things to choose from. That's another intro mistake. Do not list your resume in y
1our intro. That is too much credibility and no one really cares about you. The only point of what you're doing is so they get to care about what you're saying a little bit more or trust you a little bit more. So don't list all five things. Let's narrow it down. We could maybe list up to two verbally. That's another thing. You can list, you can list more visually because it doesn't take up space. So, of the five you mentioned, I chose the 10 years more. One, when I heard you say things out loud, at 10 years, I perked up a bit. Why did I perk up a bit? Because AI has not been trendy for too long. So for someone to be in industry for 10 years, I'm like, okay, her perspective on this is probably going to be really freaking interesting versus people who call themselves an expert after 6 months. I do think that the credibility of a like a name brand like Wells Fargo, I think with Drigo's point like mentioning that he's mentioned like in car Gary Vee's book and then he works with Chris Doe. I think those are people that a lot of people associate with the things that you're thinking about. I don't think a lot of people associate Wells Fargo with being like popping and hot in AI. Um, they think about it in a different light. So, if you wanted to mention that, I would maybe have it be like like a quote like a newsletter clipping or like article about like, you know, Wells Fargo's first AI bot or something. It doesn't have to be a real one. You can like make your own and it like highlight certain keywords and put that up there with you, but I would not mention it verbally. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it's embarrassing. So what she's saying >> of the five things she said she's looking for the most remarkable novel thing Drigo and the answer will be different for each person and the reason why he brought up the fact that somebody's like I've been working in design for 10 years because everybody has so what but if maybe they judged art director uh British design and art direction then that that's something then that's the part you would bring up. So every industry is going to be different and your individual accolades will be different. We're just trying to like get credibility really fast and move on >> if that is the USP that you want to focus on, which is credibility, which is just one of them. Number five is going to be storytelling. And some people roll their eyes at the word storytelling. They're like, oh, like it's very much a buzzword. Maybe story is important if you're an entertainment channel, but if you're an educational channel, why would you care about story? Like you're not really telling a story here. You're teaching something. When I think about story, I think about the rhythm of information that is going to keep people retained and caring about what you have to say. And storytelling is a very complex thing, but we can really simplify it into what we call story cycles. A story cycle is just a promise, a progress, and a payoff. A promise, a setup, what is coming up, a progress telling you about the thing or getting you closer to what the thing you were promised was the payoff. You receive what you were promised. That is a story cycle. And all a video is, all a story is is just a series of story cycles. So typically you have the overall I'm doing this because in my head a story cycle is kind of like a parenthesis. So you have the outer parenthesis of like the main story. So let's say in higher's example like the main story of what this creator did to double her valuation. That is the main promise. I'm going to get that the main payoff at the end. I'm now going to understand within that you're probably going to have separate smaller story cycles like first we have to talk about this then we're going to talk about this then we're going to talk about this. each point of your video, almost like if you're talking about an essay, each body paragraph, each of those are going to be its own story cycles with their own promise, progress, and payoff. Uh there there's a little bit more I have to talk about this, but the easiest way to do it is going to be through an example. So, Chris, do you want to give me an example about a video topic? >> I I'd love to give the opportunity to our audience. What makes a brand uh tied to you emotionally? >> Perfect. That's great. Great job. Okay, so >> I'm getting points with Chris here. I'm like, >> okay, so let's say we're making a video about how to um make your brand high to emotion, like how how I'm I'm I'm I'm going to rephrase this a bit, but like how to create super fans of your brand, we'll say. Okay, so you have the overall story cycle where in your intro you're going to the last line of your intro you're going to set up that main curiosity gap that big promise of let's say you are going to learn the uh fourstep system for creating an irresistible brand. Great. That sets up that's the promise that sets up the payoff of at the very end of the video. This is the four-step system or you now know the four-step system for creating an irresistible brand. That's the payoff, right? Everything in the middle is going to be progress. So after that first promise, you're going to learn that. Then we starting to go to like mini like the first of the inner story cycles. And to do this, I typically start with the purpose. So what is the purpose of the next thing that you're going to be talking about? Why does this thing matter? So we can say like step one is give me a step of of making irresistible brand. >> You can do it. >> A memorable experience. >> Okay. Step one is architecting a memorable experience. That's like the setup, the promise. That's the the premise. This is what we're going to be talking about. Then we're for some videos that will be enough. For some videos, we're going to need a little bit more. We're going to need proof of why. So, the first thing is this. Because a memorable experience is what blah blah blah blah blah. That is like the why. Like, we're going to talk about this. Why are we talking about this? Why does this matter talking about this versus this? Because this is the thing. And then at that point we're like now now now we know that that so a memorable experience is or so to get or to so to form a memorable experience you need to and that's like that promise that's coming in that's what we're going to learn in this section. Then comes the progress where you are actually teaching the framework or giving them anything they need to get to the payoff. Then they have the payoff. Now you have a memorable experience but and at the end of that payoff are going to open the next story cycle make them care about the next thing. What is the why here? But a memorable experience does not matter without what's next thing >> emotion. >> Without emotion. So or like perhaps it's like because emotion is a blah blah blah blah. So to evoke emotion with your branding, you need to and then you go into the framework, the thing that you're teaching. And I know this is like a very educational example, but this can be applied to entertainment as well. It can be applied to anything. But that's like the main I guess concepts or frameworks to understand when it comes to building any story. >> This is interesting. I hope it's not semantics. what you're describing to me doesn't sound like actually story structure. It just sounds like essay structure. There's a thesis or topic sentence, supporting paragraph, and a conclusion because I do teach storytelling. It would be a very different c
1onversation the one you're having. So, I would love to get nerdy with you if possible. >> Yeah, let's do it. >> Okay. What it sounded like was like you said, it's very educational. So, I'd be curious how this applies to like a real story. >> Yeah. So, let's take another example and let's apply before I I I find the friction point between where you or I may or may not disagree. I don't know. Somebody else want to try? Oh, look at that. Oh my god, Angel's raising her hand. I just can't even believe myself right now. How about the time that you won the anthropic prize? >> Um, it was very boring. >> Well, we're going to make it interesting. >> We are going to make it interesting. >> You have to trust us. >> So, um, please. >> So, yeah. So, it was early 2094. >> Wait, wait, wait, hold on. >> We don't need you to tell the whole story. We just need to know what the the shape of it is. So then April's going to do her thing. >> Okay. The shape of it is format is uh it was announced it on Twitter >> and then open to all developers. Uh I accidentally saw that. Um and it was it was open has some some choices that you can do and I go ahead and did it and I submit it. That was [laughter] it. >> Great. Okay. Cool. Because >> okay, wait, wait, wait. Before we go, pretty boring story. The way it was just told >> on a scale of interesting from zero to 10 or 1 to 10 is pretty low. I'm sorry. That's why you don't want to tell that story. >> Right >> now, we're going to watch the doctor at work here. >> Dr. Cornell just working her magic. You know what I'm saying? >> No, no. Cornell University, right? >> I just went to art school. So, what do I know? Why? Let's go. I love this. Um, what's really interesting I'm really interested to see what your storytelling framework is because I think mine is very YouTube like YouTube. >> Um, yours like I feel like conversational storytelling probably looks different from YouTube storytelling. But from a YouTube storytelling brain like okay first off this is a story. What are the payoffs? The main payoff you're going to get is Angelina wins the anthropic competition. Incredible. Okay. within that, what are different payoffs that she gets along the way? Well, I think probably at some point she completes the thing that she submitted. So, that's probably going to be a payoff cuz there's there's probably there's probably going to be some turmoil in her like uh seeing like trying to make the thing in the first place. I think that's probably going going to be the payoff that's like closest to the final payoff. Um, the other step she said is, uh, like her deciding to apply to begin with is probably going to be a payoff. That's probably going to be like a a turning point at this point of like why she decided to go for it. Those are probably going to be like I'm trying to think if there's a payoff earlier in this story. I think those are probably going to be the main like smaller story cycles within the bigger story cycle from what I remember about your story. Okay. Each of these payoffs now need a setup. So the payoff of she wins the enthropic competition. There has to be some setup in the beginning probably around your intro about you can either have it directly of like the story of how you won the anthropic competition or maybe like how one uh application or how one uh submission or how one thingy changed your life and that can be the thing that you set up and like what we actually get is the anthropic competition you winning and then a little bit about like how that changed your life. So we can do that. Let's think about that first story cycle. It's it ends with the payoff of her applying. So you need to have some sort of setup. The setup can be what was your like emotional state or her who were you in the before you decided to apply. So before maybe you were hoping for X Y and Z. Hey sounds like another setup that you should probably get at the end at that payoff. Now you have that X Y and Z. So you're hoping for this. Maybe you are struggling. Maybe you you're you have been applying to places and haven't been getting in. So, you need something to like amp up your your resume. You're like unsecure about your job. Maybe you have a great job, but you've always felt like you haven't been doing enough. I don't know. Like, you know, kind of what is that before? And then boom, this thing happens. You see this thing on your Twitter feed? And then we get into that that like payoff of do you decide to apply? Yes or no? That payoff that goes with the oh but you thought all of this and this was your chance to maybe get that. I decided to apply. We feel good as as viewers. We feel satisfied. You're like oh like yay a story beat happened. I'm excited. Then you set up the next thing which is now that you've have applied we have a problem. I have to actually make this thing. So, how? Um, when when I say so, how, that sets up the next thing of like you making the thing. Um, maybe they're even smaller story cycles. Well, first I need to do this, then I had to do this, and then I had to do this in order to make my submission. Each of those will have their own. First, I need to do this because this needs to happen, and then you do it. And then, okay, step one is done. Now, we have to move on to step two. And maybe that's how y
1ou make your application. Then finally you apply and we get that satisfaction of you are finished. You are complete. You have all these hopes writing on it. You apply and then we set up the next thing which like I don't know how long you had to wait after you applied you know. So I applied. There's the story concept of uh yes but no and did you do the thing that you wanted to do? If yes you achieved it. Yes, but and then thing. So, yes, you acco yes, you submitted, but you had to wait x weeks to hear back and then what happens during that waiting period or maybe uh the opposite is a no and so let's say you applied, you waited, you had the interview, did you do great on an interview? May maybe the answer is no. So, it's like no, I thought I bombed it. No. And so no, this thing did not work out and because of that worst thing happened. So and so no, I did not do well and because of that I felt like the worst human on the planet or something, right? And kind of like dig into that experience a little bit. So that's kind of how I would build up these different parts of the story. A lot of this to me in the YouTube sense is let's say you have a lot of different clips. you are understanding as you're building out your timeline like what story cycle does this is this a part of and is this part of a setup a progress or a payoff and that kind of can help you build out your timeline if you have a lot of footage to work with and then in terms of scripting out you can look at your script and be like okay does each payoff that I have is there a setup to support that um for each setup do I have is there a payoff to support that and that can be like to help you shape up your script >> my approach is going to be very different >> yeah I'm I'm really interested to hear what yours is. >> And I'm all nervous. Dr. Canel's here. Okay. >> Oh, >> here's what we're going to do. I just have to ask you a couple of questions. >> Number one is let's pretend like you wanted to tell the story because it seems like you don't want to tell the story. But in order for this to work, I need you to like feel like you want to tell the story. Is that okay? >> Right. >> All right. So, just pretend. >> Okay. >> If you tell the story, what is it you want me to learn by you telling the story? >> You have a lesson. I think the lesson I want to share is you know at the um when you think something is maybe not achievable um it's still worth a try. >> Okay. So then you can say like the lesson is you miss 100% of the shots you never take. >> Right. >> So take your shot. There's a thousand ways to say that. Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. All stories need conflict. If there's no conflict on board out of my mind. So, I want you to try to find the greatest point where the conflict is the highest between the time in
1which you first thought you wanted to do this and the time in which you're the winner of this. Where's the conflict? Because there's no conflict, there's no story. I think I think the hardest part is um you know as a technical person at the time I was struggling with um because because itself is very open-ended. It's like you're going to an essay competition and you're given a piece of blank page and it's like I'm going to make my first YouTube video. What should I do? and my end goal, my payoff is I I want to win the contest and then now I'm handed over a piece of blank page whereas you know I'm working with the most prestigious company in AI space. >> Okay. So your your conflicts I don't believe I can win. >> Um I don't know what to do to win. >> Which is the stronger emotion. I don't I guess it's more more impostor is >> Yeah. I don't believe I can win. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Is that true though? Did Did you not think or no? >> I think it crossed my mind, but I didn't really think too hard about it. >> Well, my question is did they give no instructions? Is is that what you're trying to say is they didn't tell you h like what what the actual >> It's an open brief. >> It's open. You can build basically whatever you want. That would be very hard. I mean that to any normal human would be like, \"Oh my god, what do I do here?\" >> Well, it depends which human. Creatives like open breeze. >> They really do. >> I I'm an attorney. I hate that. >> Yeah. [laughter] That's why it says depend on which human. Now, Angelina, I'm just curious. What did you study in school? >> Uh um data science, machine learning. >> Data science, machine learning >> course. Where'd you study at? >> Uh sorry. Uh >> where'd you go to school? Uh, Ohio State and uh, Stanford. >> I knew it. I knew it. >> I knew it. >> Do you know why? Well, how'd you know it? >> You said you knew it, too. >> Oh, no, no, no. I just statement was crazy. >> My statement was crazy. >> Well, we'll get into a little bit. I mean, I don't want to do derail the whole conversation, but you're like doing data science, machine learning, nerdy stuff. My brother went to Stanford. It's kind of like there's a few schools you go to to to do that at the highest level. And I don't know anything about Angelina, but I just feel that she's already at the highest level, >> you know, just put it out there. Just she didn't know how to believe. Okay, now we get into storytelling part. Okay. The thing that we don't often realize is we don't take inventory of the emotions and the feelings we have. So, we communicate very complicated things. So, you just have to boil it down. We all have the same fears. We all have the same hopes. want to take care of our family. We don't want to be ostracized by society. We we we we want to be loved and appreciated. It's just some basic things. And these are the things that other people want to hear in you because in telling your story, they see themselves. So when you're like, well, you don't know what it's like to go to Stanford. You're right. I'm not really that interested. But if it's just like, I don't believe I can win. So now I'm going to totally make up a story for you to see if we can make it more interesting. And then I'll break down like why I would tell the story this way. Okay, I would start off with something like this. Uh, and I would just drop people into the story right away because too too much of a setup is really boring. That's why in movies they say start at the car chase or the crash. You have to just begin right there where the highest point of friction is. Something that you can say something like this. Um, I've never won anything in my life. In fact, when I was growing up, my mom would always tell me, you're the unluckiest person you I know. Something like that. something super abusive like verbal like violently tiger momish things to say. >> She said she said I destroyed her life. >> Yeah. Yeah. See you stuff like that. You would drop stuff in there like that. Everybody's like fudge. What a mom. You know, and then you're like so I'm on X or I'm on Twitter and I see this thing and I keep thinking to myself, well, who am I to even to apply? There's all these big companies and I just don't think so. But then I see something or I know something and then I can do this thing and I just take my shot and I spend all night and then you can tell the some of the details of the story. The details are not that interesting but you're just looking for all the conflict points and then at the end of it I hit send and I don't want to. It takes me like 10 minutes to hit the send button. Then you just highlight all the fears that you're feeling like what if people see this and they're like I can't believe Angelina submitted this piece of crap. just go through all the inner demons, all the conflict, and then whenever the announcement happens and to my surprise, my friends text me, \"Did you know you won this thing, and it's hard to believe?\" And the reason why I told you the story is because like Michael Jordan said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So, I hope to encourage you that when you don't think you're ready, if the brief is too open, to shoot your shot and then you end the story. Okay. Now, we'll stop there and we'll go back to April Lynn's breakdown of that perhaps >> of your story. >> No, no, no. Of like the structure and >> yeah, I think there's there there are still payoffs, but I think like what what's interesting about that is that the the actual payoff is an emotional one versus the thing that happened. Um, which I think is a super super fair approach to it. And honestly, in today's day and age with how much content there is, the more emotional pull to things tends to draw us in more than just necessarily things happening by themselves. A lot of people love an emotional message. I don't think every YouTube video on YouTube needs to have a moral to it. I think that's like a type of YouTube video. It's a type of YouTube video that can be great and that I love watching. I'm sure you love watching as well. Not every video has to have a moral, but every video should have a payoff or multiple payoffs. And it's up to you what payoffs you want and also a good understanding of which payoff is going to be most interesting to your audience. Do you think an emotional payoff is going to be more satisfying to your viewers than a payoff of I won the competition and I was happy. Um, you know, it's like, okay, what's what's what's the more emotionally satis like what's the most the more satisfying uh payoff to your viewers? Not every audience is going to want to have an emotional payoff. Like some educational videos, they don't want to, as they're looking up a tutorial about how to use Procreate, have an emotional arc at the end of like, and n
1ow your life as an artist is beginning and you can do I mean, like they might, but some like, bro, I'm here to learn Procreate. like I I don't want more of this. So, I think that I like your framework when it comes to those types of stories. And I think that for anyone who's looking at that, like I I love that. I'm going to use that for sure. I think for anyone who's looking at that and it's like, \"Oh, but how does that apply to my video? My video is not blah blah blah blah blah.\" I would think about like what what is the payoff? Um and there's a lot of opportunity for more emotional story beats payoffs than a lot of people give their videos credit for. So there's uh I think it's because we just used the word story. If we were talking about teaching frameworks and I'd have a totally different thing and in a tutorial, you got to get right to it. In fact, when I search for it and you tell me a story, I'm just skipping to the next video because I don't really need to see that right now. So if your the promise is to learn something, teach it to me and there's a lot of different teaching frameworks you can use. But I I I guess I we have we use similar language but different applications and meaning of the word story. >> Yeah. So, I'm thinking like um the Moth Radio Hour storytelling or TED storytelling. Yeah. >> And it's like really just hooking human emotion and and that's that's the only difference. So, now we understand that, right? >> It feels very like um conference keynote >> or just human to human. I'm telling a story versus now there's there's you're right. I think 90% of the stuff that maybe I just pulled that number out, but >> content on YouTube should try and teach me something. there's a structure to it and a smaller percentage is like what you would consider like what you see on HBO or the Disney Channel where there's a story and then you're kind of wrapped up in it and emotionally tied to the characters and their vlogs are more like that >> where it's like you have to learn how to set up the story. >> Yes. >> Okay. So I I just made that assumption that the word story meant that you don't always have to to make a point. It's not necessarily like a moral, but you crystallize it by saying the reason why I tell you the story is because I wanted you to know I love you. There's not a moral or a thing, but just that's why I told you that story. Otherwise, people can't always connect the dots. So, you just land the plane that way and they're like, \"Oh, I get it. That's why she told me that story.\" >> Yeah. I think a lot of what I think about story 2 in my definition of it is related to plot as well which is similar but different because that framework that I got came from Brandon Sanderson who's like my favorite author um and he's the author of the Stormlight Archive and Misborn. He's actually getting a TV show soon but anyway that's his storytelling framework for building out plot as well. And I think that a lot of it can be applied to YouTube but not necessarily the same way. Okay. Do you have a question? >> Um, but it sounded to me very interesting even though you guys have different perspective on storytelling, but I could totally see Abro's structure in your own storytelling. Structure if that makes sense. >> I could see it. I wanted April to see it but >> I saw it. >> Did you? >> Yeah. >> Okay. What is the structure? >> So, because April was talking more about, you know, how to build the plot and so that's why you have all these different like subcategory. You introduce one idea and then you give more context and it leads to the other. And yours talks about how you have a very beginning, you have one goal and you're trying to hit that conflict point and at the very end you go to resolution. And so in that whole story like again when I was just listening to you guys it just really sounded like there are so many ways you can play around with it and you guys can even combine the two method that you guys just mentioned when it comes to storytelling to both a emotional storytelling but also educational and also all these different variations just >> yes you just reminded me something I really wanted to say and kind of make a point to you know uh professors who speak in the academic realm They're very good at downloading a lot of information to you and they may be the foremost expert on XYZ subject, right? But what we don't get with them a lot is an emotional connection like I want to get to know y
1ou. I'd love to have you over for dinner or to introduce you to my friends. It's just a lot of information. So, I'm guilty of this a lot of times too. You go on stage, you do your thing, like I'm just teaching all the time. And then I've recently realized in the last couple years like no one cares about you at all. You just are the uh like Johnny pneummonic. You're an information courier and you just bring them information and then they go on with their lives. But you notice like especially as I watch my now adult children how they consume content like dad you know this creator and it's like all they're doing is watching them all day long. I don't know what I'm learning but I'm fascinated by the character. >> So there's like plot driven and now there's character driven story. So yeah maybe April Lynn will get into that. Well, a a couple things with that. I think that one um if we look into memory formation, emotion is highly linked with the formation of memory. And so I think even if you are an educator and you're like, \"Oh, like the only thing I care about is my viewer getting this value, know that if you evoke emotion, you don't have to tell a soft story, but if you evoke emotion, the likelihood of them retaining the information that you impart them is even higher.\" So even with educators, there's a case for evoking emotion. Also, there was a Colin and Samir episode recently where they were talking about the two different types of creators being idea creators and relationship creators. And the idea creators, there's a lot more to do with like the plot and the idea of like, okay, the novelty of this idea. The idea is the reason why people watch these videos. They come back to watch more of these ideas. Relationship creators, people come back to watch more of the creator. even if they're doing lots of different types of ideas. And I think that when it comes to longevity, a relationship creator is going to have a much more deeper relationship with their viewers and be able to have more longevity, more sustainability on the platform. And honestly, in the long term, we'll have to try a lot less for each view that they get than the idea creators. everything you guys are talking about in terms of like storytelling emotions. It's really like I would love to incorporate some of that into my content, but it's hard for me to do that because like what am I going to share? You know, I I want I want to share all this information about how you exit as a creator for $100 million. Now, I could say something like, you know, when I started this law firm 2 and a half years ago, everyone in Hollywood told me not to do it because they said, \"You'll be babysitting kids. There's no money in the space.\" I suppose I could say something like that in my video, but does that like does that evoke an emotion? Does that connect my audience to me? Do they care? Like, so I'm I'm just trying to figure out like how would I evoke emotion? How would I make myself more of a character that, you know, people would care about? because I actually don't know how to do that. >> Yeah. So, I think there's a couple different ways to go about it. One option is if we kind of hero's journey this type of thing for your particular format. What's really interesting is that I think the protagonist of your videos are not you. The protagonist of your videos is the case study. Getting a $100 million valuation or a high valuation is a highly emotional thing. There's so much emotion with like why do they want this in the first place? Like what do they hope for? What do they strive for? What are their fears? What's holding them back from doing that? You are not the protagonist. You are the mentor that comes in. You are the supporting character that comes in to help them get like you are the Gandalf to their Frodo essentially, right? And you're there to like help them along to help get them to the place of self-actualization through YouTube valuation or whatever it is at the end. But I would argue and I think Chris will probably say something similar that like trying to exit or get to a point where you can exit your business that you've worked and built for for so long is a highly emotional process that a lot of people would relate to. I don't think the emotions need to be your emotions in order for the emotions to be present and to resonate with the viewers. >> So do I just tell it in the third person? not in the third person, but you're you're you can talk about like the creator in different stages. And then think about promise, progress, payoff, right? The payoffs are she's getting to the next step in her valuation, right? So if if the goal of the the payoff at the very end, the goal set up from from the very beginning is get this valuation. All right. Along the way, the many payoffs are she does this, she does this, she does this. there's probably certain emotions that happen in each step of the way that like yes but and n
1o and as she tries different things and then you come in and the progress piece. So I would say in terms of like third person first person I would still I mean I guess part of it would be in third person cuz she's doing this she's doing this or she tried this but a lot of it is also the I like she had this problem so I did this blah blah blah blah blah like this is what we did we did these things and because of that she now does this what's that transformation and that's where the emotion can come in >> so the one part that I don't actually share share in the last video is we we're actually not going to sell because my client understands now what it means to have an investor or a buyer in the room which a lot of create YouTubers don't understand right because it means losing losing their channel losing how they want to do their videos how they want to run their business and so then I advise them then don't sell you know you don't need to you have all this cash flow coming in why do you want to So there is a story in there of like why did we do these evaluations twice, right? Because it's almost like he wanted to know what his value was. It was like his self-worth was was being confirmed by the marketplace. So I guess there is like a story there, but I just didn't really tease it out because I just wanted to get to like here's how you get to 100 million. >> This is fascinating to me that you think you have no stories to tell. Just like who knew a hundred million dollar exit would be interesting to anybody. [laughter] M >> it's wild because okay there's a couple of things I agree with April about this. It's like you're not trying to insert your story into every story only when is relevant. So when you're telling the story about how everybody told you you're just going to be be baby babysitting kids is a dumb idea. You tell that story to the fullest but you can use the exact same formulas and there's a lot of formulas here in the story or in you telling case studies. You just have to figure out where all the tension and the conflict exists and then decide what is the biggest conflict you want to tell and then create story beats that support that and edit everything else out. The mistake that a lot of people make is like here's the big arc but then they want to tell this irrelevant detail and it's often a repetition of how we speak in real life. Like people want to give you so much freaking context I'm bored out of my mind already. So just get to the parts and edit everything else out. The other thing that you can learn in in telling stories is that um what my coach used to tell me all the time, don't let facts get in the way of a good story. It doesn't mean you make up things, but you can exaggerate certain things because that's what storytelling is. It's the expansion and contraction of time with a focus on what is important for us to know at the moment in which we need to know it. Basic formula structure is character one obstacle. every case study the character wants something. What is it they want? What is preventing them from getting that? And that's how you tell the story. And if you are you a fan of Robert Green, uh 48 laws of uh power, okay, he's a writer, researcher, he's super nerdy, brilliant at getting up there in age these days. But in in the 48 laws of power, the first law of power is um never outshine thy master. That's law number one. But he doesn't tell you that. He tells you this whole story about in France there was this noble person who was like built in a lavish home. Did you guys read this 48 laws of power? Okay, it's freaking fantastic. I'm going to totally butcher the story and guess what? I only read one law of power. It was like so freaking good I just closed the book. It was not good. And he's known for a very specific style of writing heavily researched. So because there's a guy in France, I'm assuming it's France. I don't even know. And he's like he he built this amazing palace. It's like state-of-the-art. It's just beautiful. and everybody loves it and he decides to throw a party and so he wants to invite the king of France to come over and he's like I want to source the most amazing food so they go to Africa they go to Asia and they get all he throws the most lavish party ever they come everybody's he's like talking to the town everybody's like you're amazing this is incredible we never what what do you even call that dish and so the next day for whatever reason uh the king sent over his his finance person and audited him and found he was guilty of embezzling money and then he was thrown in jail and he lost his house and then the next thing you know the king built a house just like his house. So the 48 laws of power the first law is never outshine thy master know your place. He reached too far like Icarus to the sun he his wings burned and so that was so it was just a fascinating story of history and like super well researched and he's talking about all these things. Your case studies can be like that. My recommendation to you, and it's in keeping in theme with what April's been saying, is find somebody else who's doing something really cool and just bring it over to what you're doing and no one knows the source. It's called originality because the source. So, every single person that you're talking to has a very interesting thing about what they're trying to achieve, but why they can't get it. You just need to highlight that part. Then you become a masterful storyteller. You're not the part of the story. You're just a storyteller. So, you want to have it rich with dialogue and and sensory details. That's what you want because you're painting a picture. You want to drop us in there so we feel what that person is feeling in that moment. >> But the problem is every single one of my case study, they all have the same problem. Every creator >> Oh, okay. Hold on. I'll I'll dispel that right now. Every romantic comedy is the exact same story, yet you've seen most of them and
1you feel like, \"Oh my god, it's a new story.\" And I'm the most annoying person to watch a film with because I'll tell you what's going to happen next even though I've never seen it. To the point in which I actually literally say the lines before they say it, literally. And my son sometimes like, \"Dad, how'd you know that?\" I'm like, \"Every freaking story is the same.\" >> Back to Romeo and Juliet, it's the same story. So, your belief that they all have the same problem is just how you're limiting your ability to tell your story. I promise you it's similar but not the same. >> Okay, >> next challenge. >> How do I make my case studies interesting if it's sort of always the same problem? >> Uh, have you watched Gordon Ramsay's show, Kitchen Nightmares? >> Have you ever seen it? Yeah. >> Yes, >> you have, right? >> Yeah. >> Is it not the same show over and over and over again? >> Sure. But >> what are the problems that he always encounters? Do do you remember any of them? >> It's almost the same problems. If you've seen one Kitchen Nightmares, you've seen them all. >> What's the What's the problem? And in fact, if they deviate too much from the formula, we won't watch anymore, which is the weird part. >> I actually I just always remember him screaming at people. >> Well, maybe you can say screaming is part of it. When will when will Gordon lose his S, right? >> Because he will at some point, right? >> Almost always. The menu is too complicated. almost always and he has various ways of showing you how complicated it is. Right. Number two, the food quality is always bad. There's reasons why no one eats there and someone's cutting corners. So, we're always looking for where someone cutting corners. This is Oh, this is the bad chicken. You're going to kill somebody, mate. You know, the whole bit, right? And problem number three is like like who's the idiot? Is it the husband? Is it the wife? Is it the head waiter? Or is it the bartender? Somebody is the idiot in there is messing up their business always. And if you watch them now with this perspective, you'll see it's very very formulaic. Hollywood is the most formulaic industry in the world. So one thing to help you here because I've been talking about formats in a different way than April has been, which is a format needs four things. What's the constant? The things that never change that you can do over and over again. You got to figure that out. It could be the opening question. It could be I will always talk to one guest. It'll always be underwater. It'll be on the street or whatever it is. What is the constant? And there could be more than one thing, but it needs to at least have one thing. Number two, what's the variable? What are the parts that change? Sometimes it's just a person that you're talking about. That's all it is. >> Okay? And because people are people, that's usually enough variation in there. We're in Jersey. We're in Las Vegas. It's a burger joint. Oh, they make sandwiches. They're an Italian place. It's a fusion place. Those are the variables. Number three, where can tension be created and expanded? Because without tension, there's no story. >> So look at your variable, your your your format, say like where can I drive greater tension? And it could just be that we don't find out what happens to each one of these creators until the very very end. So we just delay that conclusion, the payoff until the very end. And then lastly, what is the payoff? >> Did they or didn't they? And that's all you need. Did they or didn't they? Did they stop doing this? Did they listen to you? Did they make a million dollars? Did they make a hundred million dollars? Whatever it is, I think you're getting caught up in this that every story is original and different and it's really not. There is a place in the cinema where the original stories that don't have formats. They're called art movies and no one watches them [laughter] 100%. You understand? >> Yes. >> When was the last time you saw an art movie? I know when I was going to school was like, \"Oh my god, I see an art movie.\" I'm like, \"My god, they're terrible. I don't even know what the point is. >> Yeah. >> Where's the camera again? It's pointing in the corner. It's like, what are we doing? >> Okay. >> Yep. Got it. >> You are you okay with that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Now, there's questions. There's two questions and we got to run. >> Trailer highlights for a podcast. Is it a good idea? Um, and how to increase retention for a long form video like podcast. >> Okay, great question. And once again, I'll say podcasting specifically as a foreground is not my like area of expertise. So I'll give my two cents. Interested to hear yours seeing as you do much more of this than I do. Um, one I would not keep your trailer too too too long. Um, I think that again that longer that time to value of people like wanting to get to the point, the more frustrated they will be and like oh just start the thing. I think that typically s
1ome clips that open curiosity gaps either like tease things that are coming in the future, but they it can't just be like things that people know. It can't just be normal statements. It has to open some sort of question of like, oh, they're talking about this. I want to know more. I want to know what the three C's of thumbnails are. I want to know this thing that this person is talking about later on. Uh those clips can work. I do think that we're starting to veer away a bit from like just a series of clips as the intro in videos. I've seen more VO of people like introducing their guests. For example, like uh for like this is Chris. Chris has um done like you know a sentence about his credibility and then maybe that's followed with supporting clip from podcast and then maybe another line of VO from you about what you're talking about and then uh a clip from him to support that and then maybe a little bit about you and your own expertise and and what you're here to do and then another clip from him and then starting into the beginning of the intro of of the of the podcast itself. So, that's another format that I've seen do a little bit more more like a a mixture of voice over and clips versus just clips. But, yeah, I'm really interested to hear what you have to say. >> I'm not an expert at it either. I just made a lot of them. If you're I I think podcast fits into a whole different category and that's why Netflix is now bringing on is it Netflix or Amazon? Somebody's like Netflix is doing podcast, Spotify is doing video podcast. So, I think you just have to play the podcast game like the way it was meant to be, which is a slow burn. Long-term audience building. I I think the the competition for celebrity guests and for you to interview them means that everybody has the celebrity, but what makes it different because you interviewed them and so you have to go back into your differentiator. And I think about this a lot. The top podcasters seem to have a fairly dedicated setup. They do it in person. there's a certain lighting and vibe that they create in their pod. And we started thinking about that. The reason why I'm moving away from doing, for lack of a better term, like Zoom podcast, it's not the tech we use is because something else happens here. So, I thought, what are our constraints and what are our resources? What we have that most podcasters don't have is we're we're in LA. We have a big studio space and we can invite people to come and have a live conversation. So, if you were to watch this back, it should sound and feel different than if we're just April and myself just chopping it up. And that's what we're trying to embrace here. And so, you have to think about what are your constraints and what are your resources and what makes you different. I think for me, what makes me different is I'm a conversationalist. I'm not a big prep guy. I'm not a big research person. I just want to listen to you. And if you're an interesting person, we're going to have a great conversation. If you're a boring person, this podcast will end exactly on time. That's usually how it goes, right? Sorry for everybody else who's ended on time. I wasn't talking about you, of course. I meant somebody else. Okay, you follow. >> So, you kind of have to figure that out. We found that in our podcast, the episodes that typically get the highest views or replays or downloads are the ones where I'm doing most of the talking, which is weird because as a podcast format, I'm usually having someone else do the talking. So, I'm trying to figure that out. But that's just something we're trying to work through. >> I enjoy listening to you, Chris. >> Well, thank you. >> If April would give me a shot, I would talk a little bit more. >> This is just very dense session. So, learning a lot. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah, >> it's a totally different animal. >> Oh, yeah. Very, very different. I liked it. That was great. Great job, guys. >> Good job. >> That sounds so forced. >> What do you mean? >> Oh, is that you? >> I promise you. >> Okay, Rox, we got it. Okay. Wow. >> No, I loved it. >> I I did it super deep. >> It was very cool to like apply things to things live. >> Yeah. >> Like Yeah. working real examples and also to get your opinions on things cuz like I have my way but as you said it's like >>
1 we don't know like you know we're we don't have all the answers. We just try just based off of the things that we've learned but it's been very cool. >> What I've learned is this format works really well when this person knows what they're talking about when they don't. This is a I won't call it disaster. It's too violent but it just is not that fun. I'm like what time is it? Oh, I'm so hungry. I need to end this. Let's wrap this up. Drigo, we're out of memory space, right? And he was like, \"Yeah, bro. We're out. We got to we got to end this.\" So, I I like that April Lynn brought in such specific information in in the the way that she phrased things and the way she packages it makes it really easy to understand. And I just love like I'm sorry if it it's it's a compliment, not an insult. like her nerdy kind of investment banking kind of techy wave talking about it because we've heard a lot of creators come here and talk about stuff and it just feels like it's a lot of feelings and not really you've you've not thought about this have you because you're making it up I feel like you're making up as we're talking right now where she has systems right and she can break it down and she could she could survive the pushing and the proddding that I have just to pressure test her ideas which is remarkable especially because she's so young it's fantastic So, thank you for doing that. >> Hey, April, quick question from the audience with you launched your YouTube channel not too long ago and from there you kind of had instant success. Was there any learning or takeaways from that experience that you could share with us? >> I think one is really important to know instant success is not instant. A lot of people look at this current channel. It's like, wow, you got this far in just one year. Completely either forgetting or not knowing that I had a first channel a year or two before this one. So, I think that's really important to know. The biggest thing that I can really impart is that once you find your thing, get into it deeply. I think for me, I went through these three phases that I would recommend a lot of people do when they're just starting out. One, the experimentation phase. So you can start with like your general ideas of these are the types of videos that I want to try and do those things first. Once you have something that starts to hit, really niche down in that thing. Really try to understand what made that video do well. What is the differentiator that you're starting to really be known by and do that thing very very well. And I think that those are really the main two steps that I focused on. And once I had my hit, I was very strategic about focusing in on why that hit was a hit and repeating that success. And I think that's why I was able to grow so quickly. >> So, April, from last year to 2026, what's the biggest shift you've seen happen in YouTube? >> Yeah, great question. I think the biggest shift that I'm seeing is the definition of what makes a good YouTube video. I think previously a good YouTube video was a well prodduced YouTube video. It was a polished YouTube video. It was a video that looked and feel and felt good to watch. Now there are different definitions of a quality video of a good video. I think that a video that makes you feel something, a video that makes the audience want to keep watching more of you is often a better video than just a polished and well prodduced video. Especially becomes more easier now than ever to achieve that polished look and feel. And so I think especially moving forward, we're going to see a lot more less picture perfect videos and more, you can call it raw, you can call it authentic, you just could call it uh maybe even less structured, maybe less scripted, more personality in videos and that being deemed as a very quality good video. Now, >> why do you think that's the case? >> Why is that the case? Yeah, >> I think that, you know, with the rise of AI and AI generated content as well as just much more access for people to be able to make better looking videos a lot easier and sooner in their journeys. It's becoming more ubiquitous. It's content is in a way becoming a little bit commoditized. There's never any shortage of a video to watch. There's literally endless scroll. there's endless amount of content to watch. So because of that, the well polished videos are no longer scarce. So there's less of a deem of, oh, this is what makes for a good video versus a video that makes someone want to keep watching more is really what the best type of video is. Now, >> April, that was awesome. My my mind is fried, but in a very good way. If people are excited and they want to work with you or find out more about what you're doing, where should we send them? >> Yeah. Uh YouTube at youtube.comappril and alter. And I actually have a YouTube cohort if you want to work more closely with me. >> What's it called? >> It's called 90day breakthrough. >> Any other details about it? >> Yeah, it's a 12-week guided program across three phases and from the very beginning to end. You can either use it to start a channel. It's also good for beginners and intermediates. And across 12 weeks, three phases, foundations, upload camp, and by the very end, you're going to be making and submitting your very own banger video.",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yGn1v8OgU",y
1outube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/j8yGn1v8OgU",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j8yGn1v8OgU/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:9261,duration_display:"2h 34m",view_count:22128,published_at:"2026-07-21T12:30:10+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"YouTube Growth Strategy: A Viral Idea Playbook | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do and YouTube strategist April Lynn share a business-first framework for engineering viral video ideas, focusing on reach, remarkability, and packaging.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-07-23T06:00:08.689588+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:01.765081+00:00",faq:$R[48]=[],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:29190,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"YouTube growth strategy",secondary_keywords:$R[49]=["how to grow on YouTube","YouTube video ideas","clickable YouTube titles","YouTube content strategy","total addressable market"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[50]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[51]={id:"840f6e47-6e5e-42bb-ae58-4e32e39faed4",video_id:"dOZkAqR_2lA",title:"How I Get Unlimited Leads (No Ads, No Outreach)",slug:"unlimited-leads-the-trust-grid-method",topic_tag:"LEAD GENERATION",secondary_tags:$R[52]=["CLIENT ACQUISITION","BUSINESS","MARKETING"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do and guest Matt Essam unveil a system for generating unlimited leads through strategic partnerships.",pull_quote:"The person who makes the least amount of money is the person who actually makes the thing.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[53]=[$R[54]={headline:"Your Business is Your #1 Client",explanation:"Stop deprioritizing your own business development. Schedule and protect non-negotiable time to work *on* your business, just as you would for your most important client."},$R[55]={headline:"Stop Chasing Attention; Build Trust",explanation:"Visibility is easy to get, but trust is what closes deals. Shift your focus from the crowded attention economy to the more valuable trust economy, where credibility is your currency."},$R[56]={headline:"Find Partners, Not Just Prospects",explanation:"Instead of chasing individual clients, find partners who already have the attention and trust of hundreds of your ideal clients. One strategic partnership is more powerful than a thousand cold calls."},$R[57]={headline:"Engage Problems, Not Your Services",explanation:"Your clients aren't looking for 'branding' or 'a new website.' They are experiencing symptoms. Speak to their pain points to meet them early in their decision process and become their only logical choice."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>Your Leads Aren't Inconsistent. Your System Is.\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>For most creative entrepreneurs, the number one question is always the same: how to generate leads.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The resulting anxiety fuels a destructive cycle. You say yes to work you donât want. You lower your prices out of fear. You neglect your best clients while chasing the next project. You hesitate to hire, trapped by the uncertainty of next month's revenue. Stress becomes your default operating system.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Most creative professionals get their work from referrals. This feels good. Itâs a vote of confidence. But itâs also dangerously unreliable. Referrals are random, unpredictable, and rarely scalable. This leads to the classic feast-or-famine roller coaster: a frantic scramble for work, followed by a period of intense delivery where all marketing stops, which inevitably creates the next famine.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>It feels like a personal failing. It is not.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>During a workshop at The Futur, business coach Matt Essamâwho has guided executives from Disney, Spotify, and Hyper Islandâshowed that even the most accomplished creatives face this exact problem. \x3Cem>âEven though they were the top of their game creatively,â\x3C/em> Matt explains, \x3Cem>âeven though they had these big names on their portfolio, they still struggled with inconsistent leads.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>This is a symptom of what he calls \x3Cstrong>the talent limit\x3C/strong>. Your skill as a designer, strategist, or developer can only take you so far. Bey
1ond that point, craft is not enough to build a predictable, oversubscribed business. You need a new system entirely. Not one based on spammy DMs, expensive ads, or the relentless hustle of content creation. You need a system for generating an infinite number of high-quality leads.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>Your Business Is Your First Client\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>Success in business is 80% mindset and 20% strategy. Before you can fix your lead flow, you must fix your thinking. The first and most critical mindset shift is a direct challenge to the service-based instinct to please.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Who is more important: you or your client?\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The honest answer for most is the client. This is the root cause of the feast-or-famine cycle. When a new project lands, you throw everything at it. All hands on deck. Your own business, the one that needs consistent nurturing, is forgotten. Like a plant you flood with water before a two-week vacation, it withers from neglect.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The solution is a simple, non-negotiable rule: \x3Cstrong>Your business is your number one client.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>This is not a metaphor. It is an operating principle. If you have the capacity to handle four clients, your actual capacity is three. The fourth slot is permanently reserved for your business. Mattâs first instruction is brutally practical: \x3Cem>âOpen your calendar... and schedule a minimum of 30 minutes a day, which is a meeting with yourself or with your business.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>This two and a half hours per week is sacrosanct. When a potential client asks for a meeting during that blocked-out time, the answer is no. \x3Cem>âI have a meeting at that time, but we can schedule for later in the week,â\x3C/em> is the correct response. You have an internal meeting. It is just as important, if not more so, than any client call.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The Futur's founder, Chris Do, pushes this logic to its extreme. \x3Cem>âWhat's more important and more valuable to your business, getting the work or doing the work?â\x3C/em> he asks. While many reflexively say they are equal, a simple thought experiment proves otherwise. An entrepreneur who only focuses on *doing* the work will eventually have no work to do. An entrepreneur who focuses on *getting* the work can always hire others to execute. They have options.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>This reality is explained by Stan Shihâs Smile Curve, a concept from the manufacturing industry. The model shows that the least profitable part of any value chain is the middle: the actual assembly or creation of the product. The highest value is captured at the beginning (R&D, design, sales, marketing) and the end (branding, customer service). As Do bluntly states, \x3Cem>âThe person who makes the least amount of money is the person who actually makes the thing.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Prioritizing business development isn't selfish. It is the fundamental responsibility of a business owner. Do himself blocks two full days a week where no one can schedule his time. That time is reserved for thinking, strategy, and working *on* his business. Treating your business as your primary client is the first step to breaking the cycle of inconsistency, a principle he explores in \x3Ca target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" href=\"/watch/how-to-do-more-in-a-week-than-most-do-in-a-month\">his weekly planning system\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>From the Attention Economy to the Trust Economy\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>The second mindset shift is to decide you will always be oversubscribed. Most agencies stop marketing the moment they get busy. They turn off the tap, not realizing thereâs a 90-day delay before the hose runs dry. To escape this, you must generate more demand than you can handle.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Itâs simple supply and demand. When supply is limited and demand is high, prices go up. Your time is a finite resource. By creating a waiting list, you not only stabilize your income but also gain the power to charge what you're worth. You should be turning people away. You should be telling new inquiries, \x3Cem>âThe earliest I can take you on is in two months.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>But how do you create that demand? The conventional advice, popularized by figures like Gary Vaynerchuk, is to dominate the attention economy. Create more content. Post more. Message more people. For many creatives, this feels like a relentless, soul-crushing hustle.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>There is a better way. As marketing theorist Seth Godin argues, we no longer live in the attention economy. We live in \x3Cstrong>the trust economy.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI don't think the challenge is about gaining attention,â\x3C/em> Matt says. \x3Cem>âI think it's quite easy to get attention these days... but I think it's very difficult to build trust.â\x3C/em> This distinction is the key to a more sustainable and powerful lead generation strategy. Matt maps the options on a simple grid:\x3C/p>\x3Cul>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Cold DMs:\x3C/strong> Low trust and low scale. Ineffective and feels spammy.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Referrals:\x3C/strong> High trust but low scale. Wonderful when they happen, but impossible to control.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Paid Ads:\x3C/strong> High scale but often low trust. You can reach millions, but a cold ad promising 10 clients in 90 days is met with deep skepticism.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Partnerships:\x3C/strong> High trust and high scale. This is the most underrated and powerful quadrant.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3C/ul>\x3Cp>This is where you shift your focus. Stop asking, âWhere is my next client?â Start asking, âWhere are my next 100 clients?â\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>The Power of a Single Introduction\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>Mattâs mentor, the author and entrepreneur Daniel Priestley, once told him something that changed his entire approach to business: \x3Cem>âSomeone, somewhere woke up today with exactly what you need.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Matt reframes this for lead generation. Somebody, somewhere today woke up with the attention *and* the trust of your ideal clients. Your job is not to find those clients one by one. Your job is to find that one person a key partner and get them to introduce you.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Instead of going from your agency directly to a prospect, the model shifts:\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Agency â Partner â Prospect\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Think of it as the difference between showing up to a house party alone versus being introduced by the host. Alone, you have to shake every hand and explain who you are. When the host stops the music, clinks a glass, and says, \x3Cem>âEverybody, this is Matt. I need you to meet him,â\x3C/em> you gain instant credibility. The party comes to you.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>When Matt started his coaching business, he had zero credibility. He was known as the marketing agency guy who built websites. He applied this principle, asking himself who had the trust of his ideal clients. He thought of his friend Laura, who ran a local co-working studio filled with entrepreneurs and creatives.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>He didnât ask for referrals. He created a valuable offer for her community. He ran a workshop, and before he knew it, he was presenting to 30 of his ideal clients. From that single event, he landed his first six coaching clients. He went from zero to a full roster in one day through one partnership. This strategy is central to attracting premium clients, a topic Daniel Priestley himself discusses in \x3Ca target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" href=\"/watch/strategies-attract-high-ticket-clients-daniel-priestley\">a masterclass on high-ticket sales\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>There are three primary types of partnerships:\x3C/p>\x3Cul>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Delivery Partnerships:\x3C/strong> Subcontracting for another agency or white-labeling services. This is a common starting point for many businesses.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Brand Partnerships:\x3C/strong> Associating your brand with another, like George Clooney and Nespresso. This builds prestige and recognition.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Distribution Partnerships:\x3C/strong> Gaining access to another brand's audience, like Nike selling its shoes through Walmart. This is about reach.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3C/ul>\x3Cp>The goal is to focus on distribution. These partnerships are the most powerful for rapid lead generation. One client, Izzy, used this method to get his startup-focused agency in front of 80 potential clients by partnering with a single venture capital firm. The VC introduced Izzyâs brand audit to their entire portfolio. One relationship, 80 qualified leads.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The question is no longer whether this works. The question is how to make it work for you.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>Crafting Your Magnetic Message\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>To make a partnership strategy work, you need two things: a crystal-clear message that attracts your ideal client and an offer so valuable that partners feel compelled to share it. This happens through a three-part process: \x3Cstrong>Magnetic Messaging\x3C/strong>, an \x3Cstrong>Irresistible Offer\x3C/strong>, and \x3Cstrong>The Trust Grid.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>It all starts with specificity. You cannot create a compelling offer for a vague audience. You must choose one ideal client to target for a specific campaign. This doesn't mean you have to niche your entire business forever. It means you are running a focused campaign to get more Bobs, not just more âB2B service companies.â\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The first step is a client audit. Look at your last 10 clients and score them based on three criteria:\x3C/p>\x3Col>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Revenue:\x3C/strong> How much did they pay you (High, Medium, Low)?\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Impact:\x3C/strong> How impactful was the work you did for them?\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Enjoyment:\x3C/strong> How enjoyable were they to work with?\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3C/ol>\x3Cp>This simple exercise will reveal a pattern. The client who scores highest across all three categories is your starting point. This is your Ideal Client Profile (ICP). Not a composite, not a generalization, but a real person. Bob, the 50-year-old CEO of a sales training company with 25 employees and $5 million in annual revenue. You should be able to visualize this person. If you canât pick them out of a crowd, you aren't specific enough.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>As Do emphasizes, many get this wrong by creating a bland composite. \x3Cem>âThey usually get it wrong because they build a composite of too many different types of clients and it's not any one person,â\x3C/em> he notes. The other mistake? \x3Cem>âThey really don't know their clients at all. So, they just make it up.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Once you have your specific ICP, you can move to the next, most crucial step: understanding their world.\x3C/p>\x3Ch2>Mapping the Gap: Speak Their Language, Win Their Trust\x3C/h2>\x3Cp>The biggest mistake creatives make in marketing is talking about themselves. They talk about their services: branding, web design, strategy. But clients don't buy services. They buy s
1olutions to their problems. And often, they don't even know what solution they need. They only know the pain they feel.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>To connect with them, you must understand their journey. Every considered purchase follows a six-phase decision-making process:\x3C/p>\x3Cul>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Phase 1: Satisfied.\x3C/strong> They are unaware they have a problem.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Phase 2: Dissatisfied.\x3C/strong> Something happens, and they become aware of a problem or a pain point.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Phase 3: Decision.\x3C/strong> The pain becomes unbearable. They decide to actively seek a solution.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Phase 4: Research.\x3C/strong> They are now in the market, comparing options.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Phase 5: Purchase.\x3C/strong> They make a choice and buy.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3Cli>\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Phase 6: Review.\x3C/strong> They evaluate their purchase and either become a promoter or return to phase two.\x3C/p>\x3C/li>\x3C/ul>\x3Cp>Most marketing targets Phase 4. This is a mistake. Only 8% of your total addressable market is actively looking for your service at any given time. This is also the most competitive phase, where decisions are often made on price. As Do points out, \x3Cem>âYou're kind of too late to the game. They've already picked who they're going to consider at this point.â\x3C/em> This is a race to the bottom. For a deeper dive on this, check out Do's proven \x3Ca target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" href=\"/watch/proven-strategies-to-attract-ideal-clients\">strategies to attract ideal clients\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The strategic move is to engage clients in Phase 2. To do this, you must stop talking about your services and start talking about their symptoms. This requires \x3Cstrong>Mapping the Gap\x3C/strong>âunderstanding the gap between where your client is now (their frustrations) and where they want to be (their desires), all in their language.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>For example, a creative studio niched in motorsports identified their ideal client: a young racing driver rising through the ranks and looking for sponsors. They didn't offer âbranding packages.â They created a âSponsorship Assessmentâ that told a driver if they were ready to approach major sponsors. The offer was irresistible because it spoke directly to a critical, high-stakes problem the driver was experiencing.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>Your task is to swap services for symptoms. Instead of âlogo design,â what is the business pain they feel? Maybe itâs embarrassment when handing out a business card. Instead of âwebsite redesign,â maybe itâs losing sales to competitors with a more professional online presence. When you articulate their problem better than they can, they instantly see you as the expert and the only logical choice for the solution.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>This is how you move from being a vendor in a crowded market to becoming a trusted guide. This is how you stop competing on price and start winning on trust. This isn't just a lead generation tactic. It's a fundamental shift in how you position your entire business.\x3C/p>\x3Cp>The work ahead is clear. Stop chasing clients. Start building the system that brings them to you. Your talent got you here. A strategy built on trust and partnership will take you to the next level.\x3C/p>",transcript:"The number one question I always get from people is how to generate leads. Today, we're going to have the ultimate master class on how to generate infinite number of leads. And here's the best part, you can do this without being spammy or reaching out to people in DMs. You don't have to create a lot of content. [music] Matt, tell us about the program. >> So, you're going to walk away with a really clear messaging that attracts your ideal client, an irresistible offer that takes interest and turns it into inquiries, >> [music] >> and something I call the trust grid, which is a strategy that [music] will get other people in your network promoting your business for you without you even asking them. [music] Just out of curiosity, how many of you here get most of your work from referrals or word of mouth? Okay, pretty much everyone, right? So, referrals are great. Yeah, we all agree that it's pretty nice when someone says, \"Hey, you should go do business with this person.\" Okay, so what would it be like if you could get referrals that were really consistent, they came to you seeing you as the expert, and they were willing to pay what you currently charge consistently every single month. How would that change your business right now? Wouldn't have to spend money on ads, yeah? How else would it change your business? What do you do now as a result of having inconsistent inquiries and miss the wrong-fit clients coming to you? What are some things that you do that you don't really want to be doing? >> Not following up on weak leads. >> Okay, not following up. What else? How many of you say yes to work that you don't really want to be doing, but you're like, \"Well, we kind of need some projects this month.\" Yeah, so taking on non-ideal fit clients. What else? What other behavior? Has anyone ever lowered a a price cuz they're worried like, \"Well, if we don't get this project, then where's the next one going to come from?\" >> All the time. >> Yeah, okay. Anything else? Have a lot of stress, sleepless nights. Maybe don't hire people cuz you're like, \"Oh well we kind of don't really know where the leads are coming from. So, if we hire this person, are we definitely going to be able to afford to pay them?\" >> May- maybe take on more of work that is is out of your scope. >> Take on more work cuz that's your >> Yeah, out of your personal scope. Like, instead of you building the business that we're talking about earlier, you're back in the business and you might be acting like your old
1self, your old skillset. >> Yep. 100%. Any- Anyone think of anything else that you do as a result of all of these negative things, like inconsistent leads, wrong fit clients, low low pricing? >> Stepping over dollars and uh yeah, to chase to pick up pennies. Like, not paying attention to your core clients. It takes you off the prize. >> Okay, so maybe neglecting some of your core clients cuz you're out chasing work. >> Sure. >> Okay. Cool. Any more for any more? >> Having to put myself out there to meet other people and get write new content. That's kind of like where I don't like to >> So, you're putting yourself What is putting yourself out there mean? >> Yeah, to to get more visibility. Um like, networking and yeah, something I have to like, you know, um and uh I'm an introvert. Like, I I hate having to do that. >> Okay. So, you're an introvert and you feel like you're pressured to constantly put yourself out there, create content, go to networking events. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So, let me just give you a little bit of context. Over the last 10 years, I've been lucky enough to coach some of the world's leading creatives. And just to give you an example, on this screen, we've got um an ex-VP of Disney, internationally recognized DJs, um guy who worked at Spotify, ex-Typeform, Hyper Island. I could go on. And I'm not telling you this to impress you. The reason I'm telling you this is because when all of these people came to me, they had the exact same problems you guys have all listed. Even though they were the top of their game creatively, even though they had these big names on their portfolio, they still struggled with inconsistent leads. They still hated putting themselves out there, always having to chase, under-pricing, all the things that we've just covered, these people struggle with as well. And I say that to know for you guys to know there's nothing wrong with you. You're not broken. It doesn't mean that you're not good at what you do. It doesn't mean that you're bad at what you do. This is a symptom of something I call the talent limit, which we talked about earlier, right? So, your talent and your craft only gets you so far, but it's not enough to get work consistently in your business and get you over subscribed. And so, this is typically kind of what as a cycle for a studio looks like. These referrals come in, but because they're inconsistent, I can't remember if it was Chris or Hector that said it, but we kind of scramble. We We win the work, we get excited, and then maybe we focus so much on that new client that we neglect some of our existing clients, or we focus so much on that new client that we stop doing the thing that got us the clients in the first place. And so, then we have this whole cycle that repeats and repeats and repeats, and it feels a little bit like this. And as creatives, that doesn't feel like a great place to be, right? Because when it when our income is like this, when our lead flow is like this, you like you said, it feels stressful, and stress isn't a good state to do our best work in, would you agree? Yeah. 100%. So, if we're going to break this Well, I mean, before we do that, who's like Chris said earlier, who's actually committed today? Like 100% in your body to breaking this cycle. Like you have come here today cuz you're like, I am bored of this. I want to do something about it. Just just by a show of hands. Is anyone not Is anyone like 90%? 90 okay. >> He's perpetually 90%. >> [laughter] >> Never gives you 100, man. >> What What would need to happen for you to be 100%? >> I think for me it's just more like of a belief thing. >> Yeah. >> What would you need to believe in order to be 100%? >> The most I've ever gotten paid for like a freelance that was like 2K. So, I haven't seen any bigger numbers than that, which for me that's just a very like limiting belief. So, I guess if I consider like the amount of money that it would have take to potentially pay for other people like 10K at least 10K projects. >> Okay. Let's just separate for a second running a business from this specific problem. >> Okay. >> Right? So, all I need from you right now, I don't need you to commit to growing a business or any of that like further. All I need from you is to be 100% committed to solve the problem of inconsistently flow. >> Yeah. >> Are you 100% on that? >> Yes, 100% on that. >> Awesome. Cool. So, we're all in. So, if we're going to solve this problem, those of you that came to the podcast earlier will know I'm big on mindset. And I believe that success in life is 80% mindset and 20% strategy. So, 80% how you think and how you behave and 20% what you actually do. And so, if we're going to solve this problem, there's two fundamental mindset shifts that we need to make. And these are the two things that I find keep people stuck in this roller coaster cycle. The first one is Let me just ask you guys actually before I tell you. What's Who's more important? You or your clients? Honest answer. Honest answer. What you really believe and what you really think. Who's Show of hands for me. Show of hands Okay. Two. Who's clients? Yeah. Okay. Cool. So, my belief is the reason that we experience this feast and famine cycle is because we make our clients more important than us. And so, the first mindset shift that I want you to make is that your business, you are your number one client. So, why do you think I say that? >> If we don't take care of ourselves, we can't take care of anyone else. >> Yep, that's kind of ballpark roughly, but let's get a little bit more nuanced. What does that really mean in the context of business? What do we just describe in this cycle? What happens? >> Not doing our best work. >> Not doing our best work. What actually creates the cycle if you think about our actions? What do we do that creates this cycle of feast and famine? >> Accepting lesser work. Lesser than what our expertise is. >> You're in the sales cycle and then you're not in the sales cycle. >> Yeah, we prioritize our clients over our business, right? That's ultimately what we're doing. Hey, there's a new project, all hands on deck. Everything to the client. So, I'll tell you what this means from a very practical perspective. How many clients do you think you can handle at one time at the moment in in let's say a month? Or depending on how let'
1s say your brand sprint is 6 weeks, like how many how many clients could you take through that sprint simultaneously? >> Four. >> Okay. So, your real capacity is three. Because it's three plus your business. >> Five. >> Yeah, right? So, we don't factor in our business as a client. So, when we're busy, we have no room, we have no capacity to keep doing the things that are going to nurture our business. It's a little bit like going on holiday, right? And you go on holiday and you leave all the plants, you give them a bunch of water, but they're probably not going to look great when you get back in 2 weeks cuz you just gave them a bunch of water and then you just left them. You have to keep gradually watering them every day or every week, right? And so it's the same for our business. And so the one thing that I'd like you all to do as an action right now is I'd like you to open your calendar, whatever calendar you use, Google, iCloud, or whatever, and I'd like you to schedule a minimum of 30 minutes a day, which is a meeting with yourself or with your business. And you can if you need to do this over a block, so if you need to, you know, do 1 and 1/2 hours on a Monday or 1 and 1/2 hours on a Friday rather than 30 minutes a day or whatever, I think that's the right maths, right? You can do that, but I actually want you to block out that time. And that time is the time for you and your business, like the way you treat your clients, \"Hey, we need a meeting on a Friday.\" or whatever your arrangement is, that's for your business. So I'm genuinely like that's your first action. >> 30 minutes a day? >> 30 minutes a day. So if you need 2 and 1/2 hours a week. 2 and 1/2, yeah. >> Can you describe what that looks like working on your business cuz I feel like that's a never-ending thing for me? >> Yeah, yeah. I will get to that in this process of what you actually do in that hour, but that's the first thing we need to do. And by the way, if you take nothing from this workshop and you just do that and that action is whatever you're currently doing to get clients, like networking events or posting on LinkedIn or whatever it is, that's better than nothing. And if all you took away from today was this action, I would be pretty confident in there in 90 days your business will be in a different place. >> I'll repeat. >> I'll repeat, right? Scheduled, repeat every single week. And so what, just quick shout out, what day is that? Is that Have you done it 30 minutes a day? Have you done it one particular day? When have you scheduled it? >> I scheduled it 30 minutes a day, but it will likely fall into a 2 and 1/2 hour block on Mondays. >> Okay. What time on Mondays? >> Um probably starting at noon, I would say. We eat in the office. >> Okay. So, if a really important client comes along and says, \"Hey guys, um we'd love to speak to you. Can you guys do noon on Monday?\" What's your answer going to be? >> It's tough. As of right now, I would say yes, but >> From today? >> being honest. >> Yeah, but from today, what's the answer going to be? >> It's going to be no. >> It's going to And what are you going to say? >> I mean, usually I don't give a reason. I'll just like reschedule. I'll say, \"Oh, we're not available during that time.\" >> Okay. >> What is the reason? >> It's I have it as a BD block, business stuff. >> Yeah, you have a meeting. >> We have a meeting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> With yourself. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, you have an internal meeting. >> Right. >> I feel so much tension already. Like, \"Oh my god, our business is going to fall apart.\" I feel like Chris wants to maybe challenge me on this a little bit. >> Oh, so many, but I'm not going to. >> Okay, why? >> I just want to say like, uh I want to rename the studio the crucible because we are only allowed to tell the truth here. >> Okay. >> So, if you're not going to do it, don't say you're going to do it. >> Okay. >> And if you're if you're going to give some like powerful answer that you won't say, don't say that either. We're only going to get somewhere we just tell the truth. So, Matt, myself, we need to know what you're really going to do or not going to do more importantly, that then we can think about maybe how to help you some other point in t
1ime. So, will you Have you blocked this out cuz you're like with the in theory everything feels very soft and ethereal with you. You got it? So, okay, you scheduled it. And so, when somebody says, \"Hey, we need a schedule for Monday.\" You will say what? Now, I need you to say it more emphatically so like I believe because I didn't believe you the first time. >> I have a meeting at that time, but we can schedule for later in the week. Here's my availability. >> Perfect. >> You know? >> Yeah. >> I actually have daily um already blocked out for my time and I don't get anybody to uh book on that unless it was a client I was a it's a sales call. >> Sales are kind of the other end of the flow. Like you've done if you think about lead generation versus sales, there's a delay, right? So your action, whatever you do today, it's not like you go out to a networking event and then tomorrow you have a sales call and sign a 50k client. Might happen once in a blue moon, but probably doesn't happen very often, right? There's like people need to get time to know you. So this time in your calendar is more for the upstream. So it's what is called a lag sales and sales meetings are what's called lag metrics. So they're a lag from what you've done like 90 days ago. So my preference would you would be that you had another day that you take sales calls on. And that day is still for leads and marketing. >> I think I don't have a problem with this one. >> So if you follow the logic and you're like if half an hour is good for me a day, wouldn't be an hour be better? And if an hour is good, wouldn't a day be better? And then at some point you say, well, shouldn't I be spending all my time on my meeting internally to me? Is this where this is going at? >> I don't think so. Do you want to come up here though? I feel like you know you've got no camera on you. So when we go >> I do have a camera on me so right there. >> Oh okay, sorry. My bad. My bad. >> Yeah. Rephrase the question, sorry. >> If half an hour is good for a meeting with ourselves if we're going to prioritize ourselves, if I am my own number one client, >> Yes. >> then could you argue that an hour a day is better than half an hour? And if an hour is better than half an hour, isn't a day better than an an hour? And then if meeting with myself is the most important thing, then 5 days a week sounds pretty important. What do you say to that? And there's there's a this is a real question by the way. >> Yeah, okay. It depends where you are, right? So if you have if you're really struggling like holy crap, I don't know where my next lead's coming from and you're like, man, I think I should spend an hour a day or 2 hours a day on business development.\" Then, yeah, sure, because you need leads. If you've got lots of work and you're booked up for a month, and you're like, \"Hey Matt, actually, I want to spend another 5 hours a day doing business development.\" I'm like, \"Well, lead flow looks pretty good right now.\" So, for me, this is relative, but it never goes to zero. So, a little and often every single day. And when you see the rest of the framework, I think you'll understand why 30 minutes a day is actually enough to achieve a high volume of leads. Because we're not doing We're not spending half an hour and an hour going to a networking event or doing cold outreach on LinkedIn or creating content or whatever. You can do all of that stuff if you want, but with the the final part of this, the trust grid, um you only need like two or three partners. And once you've got those established, you're really just checking in and maintaining those relationships. >> What's more important and more valuable to your business, getting the work or doing the work? >> I don't think they I think they are equal in merit. Because if you don't get the work, then you don't have any work to do. If you get the work and do a [Â __Â ] job, then you don't have more work. >> Okay. Let's use your logic. >> Okay. >> Earlier today, you said, \"Take one idea thinking, take it to its extreme.\" Let's say you do very little getting work and mostly doing the work. >> Mhm. >> If you keep doing the work, eventually you get no work. >> Mhm. >> Right? >> Yeah. >> But if you say you don't prioritize getting the work, and you're actually not prioritizing doing the work, and you just get a lot of opportunity, >> I didn't I didn't say prioritize not doing the work. I said if your capacity to deliver a delightful experience is four clients, it's actually three. So, you are a client. I didn't say >> No, no, no. I didn't say what you said. I'm just saying if we just say, \"What's the biggest priority for any business?\" And hopefully, we can get to some truth here. Is it getting the work or doing the work? You're like, \"It needs to be 50/50.\" So, I said, \"Let's just go extreme.\" I'm not saying you said this. I'm just saying let's go extreme where one let's say that between Hector and Ray. Hector is like I'm going to just focus on getting the work. Ray is like I'm just going to focus on doing the work. >> Mhm. >> If he focuses on doing the work, eventually he gets no work cuz he hasn't done any marketing or lead, right? Whereas Hector focuses on getting the work, so now he's got so many leads, but he's not prioritizing doing the work. >> Yep. >> Who is better off in these two situations? >> Hector. >> Of course. So that's why I said if focusing on generating leads is a priority, why not just make it your only priority? Because as you get money in for leads, you just hire people. >> Yep. >> Right? >> Mhm. >> That's what ad agencies do. That's what some production companies do. In fact, that's what most big successful businesses do. They focu
1s on getting the customer because as turns out the stand sheet smile curve is the person who makes the least amount of money is the person who actually makes the thing. It's the bottom of the value chain. And I know it's a hard message for people to hear, but I just wanted to go extreme so they cuz they're going to default to I don't want to work on getting the work. >> Mhm. >> I'm just trying to like pull them in there because I just look at this I don't look at it as lead generation, but your business my business is my number one most important highest priority. That's why I have two days. >> What's that? >> Client. >> Your business is your number one >> Client. >> client. >> Yep. >> And what's the difference between priority versus client? >> Priority is my business takes precedence over everything. Client is out of all my clients, that is number one. So in the context of clients, not in the context of everything. >> Okay. I'm not sure I understand the nuance, but I'm going to keep going flowing with that though. >> Okay. >> I was just going to tell people I spend two days where my calendar is blocked off that you can't book me. The team cannot book me. The only person who can break the exception is me. >> Mhm. >> And so that that's my default. So I was in there thinking I should have three days booked off and eventually five days booked off where no one could book me for anything except for me. >> Yeah, I mean that would be a true kind of owner way of operating versus Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, I agree with you. Um Okay, cool. So, that's mindset shift number one. Mindset shift number two is kind of what Chris just alluded to, which is we always want to be over subscribed. So, the common thing I hear agency saying is, \"Well, we don't really need to do any marketing right now.\" or whatever because we've got lots of work. And what they don't realize is they've stopped the tap down here, but they just haven't seen the effect of it yet because it hasn't caught up because there's a delay between when the water stops and when you see it not coming out of the hose anymore. So, we always want more people and it's just really simple supply and demand, right? What's happened to the price of oil right now? It's gone up. What's changed that's made it go up? Less supply. Demand is exactly the same. The only thing that's changed is supply. And so, all of you have a limited supply. And so, the more limited that you make that supply and the higher the demand is, the more money you can charge. And so, that's why I want you to have the mindset of if there's ever less people inquiring about working with us than we have the capacity to work with, there's a problem. You should be saying no to people. You should be saying, \"The earliest I can take you guys on is in 2 months or 3 months or whatever that is right?\" So, they're the two big mindset shifts. >> I'm still a bit concerned about time because we've we've only [laughter] just we've only just started getting into the concepts. I want you guys to do some stuff. So, this is the last few bits I'll say is I hear a lot of people, the Gary V's of the world, talking about we live in this attention economy, right? And so, a lot of the advice I see out there is create more, make more content, message more people, spend more money on paid ads. And it can work to an extent, but most creatives I speak to don't want to do this cuz it feels like hustle and B don't have time to do this. And so, I don't think that we live in the attention economy anymore. I think more in alignment with Seth Godin, I think we live in the trust economy. I don't think the challenge is about gaining attention. I think it's quite easy to get attention these days. Write a controversial post, do something stupid online, and attention goes. Chris biting his tongue again. Um >> [laughter] >> Uh but, I think it's very difficult to build trust. Right? So, what I want to talk about today is how we build trust at scale. But, essentially, there are kind of four quadrants. And so, on the left-hand side here, we've got trust. On the bottom here, we've got scale. So, how scalable is this? So, up here Up here it's up top a little bit. Can you see it now? Okay, cool. Um this is referrals, right? Referrals are super high trust. But, they're very low scalability. It's very difficult to to scale referrals. Down here at the bottom, you've got these kind of cold cold DMs, one-to-one. Hey, by the way, you guys probably get them all the time on LinkedIn and stuff, right? Hey, by the way, guys, we do this thing. Do you need help with it? It's like, okay. Low scalability. I mean, there are some people who will try and scale this by saying, \"Hey, we have this AI automation.\" There's a bit of a delay on this. Um we have this AI automation thing that can send millions of DMs or whatever, but it's pretty much low trust, low scale. Okay? Then up this end, there's lots of successful people who have scaled their business through paid ads. Very, very scalable. And combined with content, can be high trust. But, in general, a cold ad that you've never seen before to a cold audie
1nce, highly scalable, throw more money at it. But, I don't know about you guys, these days I see these offers that are like so good that you can't believe them, right? Oh, we'll get you 10 clients in the next 90 days or you don't pay me anything. How many of you have actually clicked on that thing, booked a call, gone and actually had the call with them, right? Probably not that many, maybe one. Right, okay. Now, there's something here which I think is one of the most underrated strategies that exist and that's what I really want to talk you through today. Um up here in the top right hand corner, there is a way to have high trust and high scale. And it's what I refer to as partnerships. Partnerships okay? So, this man here, does anyone recognize this guy? Daniel Priestley. So, Daniel's been one of my mentors for about 10 years now. This is when I still had hair, as you can see. And when I first started when I first met Daniel and when I first started working with him, he said somewhere something to me which really stuck with me. He said, \"Someone, somewhere woke up today with exactly what you need.\" Someone, somewhere woke up today with exactly what you need. And I realized that I had been thinking about this whole business development thing and marketing thing wrong. I'd been thinking about where is my next client coming from? How do I get my next client? But then I started thinking through the lens of Daniel and I started thinking, why am I not thinking about where are my next 100 clients coming from? And so, the new way, the way that I want to talk to you about today is instead of going agency to prospect, we're going to go agency to partner. And the partner has not only the attention, but the trust of your ideal clients. So, there's I'm going to rephrase this, which I put in the workbook, somebody, somewhere today woke up with the attention and the trust of your ideal clients. And what we're going to do today is we're going to find these people because what I can promise you is they already exist in your network. So, this isn't random people that we have to just try and find on the internet. These are people that probably exist within your network. And we're going to get them to introduce you to your ideal clients. So, it's a little bit like going to a house party and it's the difference between turning up to the house party not knowing anyone, going around, shaking everyone's hand, \"Hey guys, I'm Matt. Oh, how what do you do?\" blah blah blah. Versus knowing the host of the house party, him stopping the music, clinking a champagne glass, and saying, \"Everybody, this is Matt. I need you to meet him. He's an awesome guy. He does all of these things.\" And then, off you go into the party. That's going to be a different experience, right? Now, I've traveled with Chris for long enough to watch this in effect to the extreme. Chris gets up on the stage in front of hundreds, sometimes thousands of people, and as soon as he gets off that stage, people are in a queue to talk to him. Now, obviously, Chris has done a lot prior to that building up to getting on that stage, but I've even experienced this for myself. So, when I started this business, I the business that I run now, before I was I ran a marketing agency, and I decided I wanted to be a business coach/life coach. That was the thing that I wanted to do, and I came out into this market, and I had zero credibility. Cuz I wasn't known as a life coach or a business coach. I was I was the guy that built your websites, that did your social media management. And so, I thought about this principle, and I thought, \"Who has woken up today with the attention and the trust of my ideal client?\" And I remembered my friend Laura, and Laura ran a co-working studio just down the road from me. And so, I said to Laura, I was like, \"Hey Laura, I'm starting this new business. I've got all of these ideas. I think they might be useful for some of the people in your co-working.\" We had a conversation. I ran through a very specific framework, which I'm going to teach to you guys. And before I knew it, I was giving a presentation to 30 of my ideal clients. So, I went from knowing nobody to being introduced by Laura, who had trust and credibility, 30, and that was my first day with my first six clients. From those 30 people there, I got six clients. They're my first six clients as a business coach. Then, I just kept applying that strategy. So, then I thought, \"Who else do I know?\" And my speaking engagements gradually just got bigger, and so I was speaking at things like the Google campus. And some of you may have seen my videos on the future channel. And this keeps going, r
1ight? So I'm technically now borrowing Chris's audience. And I believe that if we deliver enough value to people that already have the attention and the trust of our ideal clients, they will happily share us with their ideal clients. And so that's the strategy that I really want to talk about today. I'm going to handle some yeah, buts in a minute. But does anybody got a yeah, but or a question that isn't on this slide? >> Is partnerships uh the same as like subcontracting with another agency? Because that's how I've actually built my business and been around for 20 years. >> It's a form of it. I don't want to get too much into the nuances right now, but there's essentially three different types of partnership. So there's delivery partnerships, which is subcontracting for another agency or kind of white labeling. There's distribution, which is literally just getting in front of other people's audience, and then there's brand. So if you think about, let's say George Clooney and Nespresso, that partnership with Nespresso is purely a brand partnership, right? People think of George Clooney, they think of Nespresso, they associate those two things. That's why they want that relationship. If you think about maybe like Nike for example, and they bring out a new trainer, and they partner with Walmart, that's purely a distribution strategy, right? They just want to get as many trainers in front of as many people as possible. Um and then if you think about a delivery partnership, that might be someone like uh Bose who partner with Porsche or Mercedes and they say, \"Hey, we we're going to have a deal so that our speakers go inside every car that you make.\" Does that make sense? So there's kind of different types. And so that is an example of a delivery partnership. My preference today is that you walk out of here with some ideas of distribution because they're more powerful in my opinion. If you can get something that ticks all three, then that's where the kind of real gold is. Another question is yeah, but I wrote some down here just from the I get from my clients. So like my example was speaking, I don't want to be a speaker, I run an agency. And so I'm just going to tell you about a few people that do this and don't speak. Um why would people promote my business? We're going to talk a little bit about how we get that. I tried this before, I asked for referrals all the time. Have you got one? >> I'm just going to make up one for the group. >> Okay, cool. >> Yeah, but why would the host promote me? >> Yep. So you're going to create an offer that is so valuable to your host that they can't help but introduce you to the party. You're going to have something that makes them look good and that brings value to the party so that they would feel stupid not introducing you. Okay, so I just want to give you a few quick examples and then we're going to do the first bit of homework. So these guys run a creative studio and their niche is kind of in the motorsport um area. So this client they got was from an asset they created which we're going to create today called a scorecard or an assessment and that person shared it with that uh with their network and they got something like 25 leads in about 3 hours. But from that they got a big client and the thing that I love about this was this was their Just zoom in a little bit so you guys can see that. Um this is the coolest part about this I think. So this was the first project, sorry there's a bit of delay on this I think. Or it's just not working. Yeah, there we go. Right, this is the first project that we've had which hasn't been through word of mouth or referrals in 3 years. Okay, and these are just normal guys that are speaking, they don't do podcasts, they don't do any of that stuff right? Um this is Adam and this I chose this cuz this was the funniest thing. He set up a little notification that when anyone filled in the form, he got this little note, \"Hey Adam, someone has completed the form for the free brand audit. This [Â __Â ] might actually be working.\" So that's a good example of someone that didn't maybe quite believe the strategy would work at the beginning. And this is Izzy. Izzy uh uses startups and scale-ups, that's his ideal clients, and he had a couple of VC partners that put in front of 80 startups in their portfolio. Right? So one person, 80 potential ideal clients through one relationship. That's what I want you guys to get, right? The power of this. You only need a handful of partners to have hundreds and hundreds of ideal clients or hun
1dreds of conversations. Okay. I'm not going to draw on this. I'm going to talk you through it cuz it will take me too long. But there's three parts to this that we're going to we're going to implement today. Um the first one is we're going to create magnetic messaging. So we're going to pick an ideal client who you want to get in front of, and we're going to really understand their challenges, their pain points, their desires, what's going on in their world, so that when you create an offer or you create something, it speaks directly to them. And what I want you guys to get is that we're not pivoting your whole business here. I'm not saying that today you have to walk away with a new niche or a new positioning. Think of this is like a So you guys are kind of website marketing. Think of this as a campaign. This is just a campaign you're going to run for a particular type of client. But specificity is the key here. The more specific we are, the easier this is going to be. So to give you to go back to the example of Jack and the creative studio, what they created within their niche, when we identified their ideal client, they realized their ideal client was a young racing driver who was rising up through the ranks and was looking for new sponsors. Right? That was their ideal client. And so what they created was this was a sponsorship assessment. And so they filled this assessment in and it told the racing driver whether they were ready to go after the big sponsors. Right? And so that was their assessment. So do you see how specific that is for such a specific person? And that's why it was so shareable. Like wow, this is really cool and really valuable cuz it's so specific to their challenges. Right? So I want you to not be broad. So we're going to get very magnetic messaging. Um I'll talk about the decision-making thing in a minute. Then we're going to create an irresistible offer. So we're going to use that messaging to kind of hook people in and then we're going to build today together we're going to build an assessment which I believe is the kind of first step, the easiest thing that you can build as an irresistible offer. Obviously you can come up with more ideas and different ways of skinning the cat, but I want you to leave today with something really tangible. And then we're just going to test this message with a few people and see how it starts to land. And then finally we're going to look at this trust grid, right? Who are the people in the in our network right now that already have the attention and the trust about ideal clients? How do we create something like Chris said, why would this person promote what I do? How do we create something that makes it a no-brainer for them to share? And we're just going to create a really basic agreement. Hey, we're going to do this for you guys and you're going to do this for us. So that's the overview of what we're going to what we're going to cover today. Has anyone got any questions on those three parts specifically because the next thing I'm going to do is get you guys to do some homework. So if you jump over to the workbooks, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go through your last 10 clients or the your latest 10 clients, however you want to think about it. And I just want you to fill out that spreadsheet. Right? Um and then you're basically going to going to rank them on a few things in that spreadsheet. If I So business name, what industry are they in? Who's the main contact? What's their role? And then total revenue generated for you. So, it's going to give you a a high, medium, or low option. So, in the scheme of all the clients you've worked with, did they pay you really well? Did they pay you okay? Or did they pay you really poorly? Um how impactful do you feel the work was? And then how enjoyable were they to work with? So, you're just going to rank them and then you'll get an automatic client score. >> Okay. And for clients, previous clients? >> Last 10 clients. Pre- Yeah, past 10. And if they're current clients, and that's working for you, then that that works as well. There's not I'm going to try and do this like quite methodically because otherwise people get lost. I know it might seem a little bit paint by numbers, but we created a little client avatar GPT. So, if you click that avatar GPT, it should open up in a a new tab. Um and you're just going to click help me pick an ICP. And then what you're going to do is you're going to take this Hate to if you're on an iPad, this might be a little bit tricky for you, so you can just describe it to the GPT. But for everybody else, if you're on a laptop, you can just go file and then download and just download this as a an Excel document. And you can just upload it into the GPT. >> So, does this exercise supposed to find the actual person that you did well with with that particular company? >> Yes. >> Because my GPT just spat back a generalization. You CPG CEO. I I should choose a an actual person and an actual company, right? >> Yes, correct. >> Okay, I understood. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. This information. >> Okay. So, if you You to the workbook There is uh something here which says client avatar form. If you click on that, then it should bring up this. We just need this filled in basically ASAP. So, I know this feels a bit tedious, but like this part is fundamental for making the rest of it work. If we don't have this specific person in our mind, then the rest of it just becomes really hard. Who is this person? Like, if I said to you, \"Who's this ideal client?\" you should be able to de
1scribe them and we'll go, \"Oh, yeah, I can imagine somebody like that. I can think of someone like that.\" So, not like \"Oh, CEOs.\" It's like CEOs is not an ideal client, right? We want Jeffrey, who's a project manager at this Fortune 500 company in the medical space. Yep, got it? Cool. Are we good? Okay, cool. So, the next thing we're going to do Oh, it's trigger. I'll stay standing up because Um the next thing we're going to do is we're going to do something called mapping the gap. Mapping the gap is figuring out where they are now and where they want to be. Most importantly, in their language. So, when we think about frustrations and we think about desires of our ideal clients, one of the common mistakes that creatives make is they talk about the frustrations and desires from their perspective, through their lens. So, they say things like they don't have a great brand or their website isn't good enough or all of these things. And that's fine, but your ideal client probably won't resonate with that unless they're looking for that particular thing right now. Okay? I'll talk a little bit about the decision-making process because I think it might be helpful. But Chris, like do you want to add anything here in terms of what when you do this with your clients' frustrations, etc. Any like common mistakes or examples that you can think of where people really get this wrong versus where they get it right? >> Yeah, they usually get it wrong because they build a composite of too many different types of clients and it's not any one person. And the second mistake they make is they really don't know their clients at all. So, they just make it up random things and it's not logical. It's not consistent. >> Yeah, cool. So, we've got a GPT to help you, but what I want you to do is once you've got these frustrations and desires, actually go talk to the person you just wrote down and see if these things actually resonate. Like, is this on the mark or am I totally off? Do you experience these things or do you not? Right? So, a little bit of validation there. So, I just want to quickly talk about the decision-making process just for 1 second because I think um it's really important. So, I talked about this earlier, but I'll do a very quick whistle-stop tour for you guys who weren't here earlier and YouTube. Um as humans, when we're making a considered purchase, there are basically six phases that we go through. We start at phase one where we're not really aware that we have a problem. We're pretty satisfied with life as it is. Then something happens and we move to stage two where we become aware that there is a problem or we're we're dissatisfied. Okay? So, if you think about anything that you've bought recently in your life that was a considered purchase. So, not like you just went to the shop and bought a new pair of jeans. Like, you've been thinking about it for a while. You can probably identify with this. Right? Then we stay in this stage two for a while where we're not really happy, but then something happens. The phrase the straw that broke the camel's back. And we're like damn it, I've had enough of this thing. I'm going to go and get whatever it is or I'm going to change this. And then we go out into the market and we start looking at the options. What am I going to do? Am I going to buy this phone or am I going to buy that phone or am I going to buy this car or am I Maybe we've already kind of got the thing that we want in our head and as soon as we make the decision we go from three to four and kind of skip to five. But most people do a little bit of research at stage four. They look at the options. Is this, you know, even within the range? is am I going to buy the MacBook Air or am I going to buy the MacBook Pro, right? We might have already decided on a MacBook. Then we make the purchase. And then we review that purchase. And if you're a weirdo like me, you actually go back onto YouTube and watch the reviews and compare it to your experience and see if those two things match up. Right? So, we're constantly reviewing this. And if we're not happy, we go back to stage two. Like, \"Ah, this thing isn't what I thought it was going to be.\" Right? And we either return it and then that person has buyer's remorse, or we're super happy and we become the referrer and we tell all our friends about it and we go back to stage one. Does this make sense? Can you think of something that you've purchased that kind of this cycle clicks for you? >> Yeah, it's like you're out shopping with your friends who are much more fashionable and they're like, \"Your pants are too tight.\" And [laughter] you're like, \"I was totally satisfied with the >> 100% satisfied, yeah. >> Then they bring you to your shop and show you other things and you still are not aware, so you stay in that unaware state. >> Yeah, exactly that. For example, >> Perfect Somebody, yeah, who knows? >> That may have happened at some point. Not real life. >> Definitely not real life. >> Um So, here's the crazy thing about this. Most people think that stage four is the best place to engage with our ideal clients because our clients are out there looking for a rebrand, they're looking for a website. The problem with stage four is number one, it's only about 8% of the total addressable market. So, only 8% of your market is at stage four right now looking for the thing that you have. The other thing about it is what? When people get to stage four, what are they typically comparing services on? Price. Yeah. They want to know, \"How much does it cost? Is this thing any good? Like, what's the quality like? And how fast can I get it?\" So, we fall into the good, fast, cheap trap. They're the only We What's the Do one, maximum two, but never do all three. >> I think also, in addition to price, you're kind of too late to the game. They've already picked who they're going to consider at this point, and you're a Johnny-come-lately to the situation. It's kind of like you found out the agencies bidding on these four firms, and you're like, \"Oh, I want to get on that.\" And you seem desperate, and it's like, \"No, we're not going to consider you. We've already gone through the not assessment, procurement period, and we already know who we're talking to.\" >> And even if you are one of those four agencies, there's only so many variables that you can pull, right? Um and it's the most competitive. If you think about it, right? Everyone's trying to get to that point, attention, spend money on Google Ads, SEO. If anyone's ever seen one of those posts on Instagram or Facebook or whatever or LinkedIn, \"Hey guys, I'm looking for a graphic designer. Does anyone know anyone?\" What happens within 10 minutes? There's like 100 comments. \"Oh, you got to speak to Chris. No, no. You got You can't You know, like you got to speak to Ray. No, you got to speak to this person.\" It's like, \"Well, who do I speak to, right?\" So, what we're going to talk about here is how do we engage people at stage one and two of the decision-making process, and how do we take them ourselves to stage four so that we be
1come the only choice? And when they assess the options, they're not assessing the options of the market, they're assessing the options that we're presenting to them, the options of our different packages or the way that we work. Does that make sense? Cool. So, if we're going to do that, when we talk about frustrations and desires, we have to talk about those frustrations and desires as symptoms that people at stage two would be experiencing, not as services which we provide at stage four. So, the big shift is swap services, websites marketing branding etc. for symptoms. And that's how we want to communicate, and that's what we want to write down here, okay? So, I have built a little GPT that's going to help you with this. You may know some of these answers already, but there are two things here. There's this map the gap exercise, so you can click on this. Um exactly the same every time. Make a copy. And then there's a client avatar GPT which you're already working with, right? So, once you've got this client avatar, you can either just upload the the sheet that we're working on here. You can upload this into the GPT and say, \"Hey, help me map out some frustrations and desires of this person. You might know some of these already. Now, the GPT isn't perfect. So, if you find it coming back with things that you think, \"Mhm, this is a little bit stage four. This is a little bit too close to like branding or websites.\" Just push the GPT and just say, \"Hey, this is These are kind of stage four or these are too much related to branding. I want you to talk more about the symptoms that they're they're experiencing, the things that my ideal client is saying.\" Once we get this part right, this is kind of the bulk of the This is the hard bit done. Everything else downstream from here becomes easier. This is the kind of hardest thing and most important thing to nail. So, I think this is probably the bit where maybe we we workshop a few ideas and just make sure that people are on track. So, if you think you know some of these frustrations and pain points and desires already, just get them down into this document. If you don't, then use the GPT and ask it, \"Hey, this is my ideal client. What do you think the frustrations and desires of this person would be?\" >> Um one of our ICPs are B2B services. Um they're >> Well, just let's just do it like this, right? Read out I I want you to read out exactly this document. So, what's the name? How old are they? What's the role? >> What is their name, please? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. First name is Bob. >> Yeah. >> Um age, I'd say around like 50s. Role is founder CEO. >> Cool. >> Business snapshot, um B2B services. Team size is about 5 to 25 employees. Revenue is 500k to 5 million annually. >> What industry? So, you say B2B services. What does that mean? I'm not 100% clear on >> Like, what would you >> Sales training. >> Be specific. Yeah. >> Okay, so put sales training. >> Sales training? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Do you want me to do a whiteboard on this? The problem with the profile you have is super generic and broad. The The way I do this is if I can't visualize this person in my mind, it's not good enough. Like, I want to see Bob walking down the street and say, \"That's Bob right there.\" So, if we're in a room of a thousand people and you say, \"Find Bob.\" and you read that, they would not be able to find Bob. >> Mhm. >> Make sense? Because a company doesn't make between 500 to 5 million. A company does 3.2 million. >> a person, right? >> It has to be a person. >> Okay. >> It's really critical because when we try to voice their frustrations, we're not trying to voice the frustrations of an industry. Bob, believe it or not, represent There's a lot of Bobs out there, but the way you're doing it is like it's so broad. >> Mhm. >> Okay? >> Yeah, I think I wrote this out a little more like about the company. >> Yeah. >> pinpointed to actually the person that we're >> Yeah. So, the person So, the person is still Bob, but what What Chris meant is like the company doesn't do that range either. Like, >> I wrote >> So, I mean, I don't know in America, but in the In the UK, like, on LinkedIn, it tells you what the the range is and like what Whatever you said it isn't a range, r
1ight? It's like I think it's like zero to 150,000, 150 to 500, 500 to a million Like, you know, the ranges are much smaller >> Mhm. >> than that. So, I think we need to get a bit more specific on that. And then in terms of the company or industry, it's like if they do sales training, it's sales training. It's not like B2B services. >> Mhm. >> Does that make sense? Cuz like loads of things are B2B services, right? So, when we When we create an irresistible offer, we're going to create an irresistible offer for Bob. We're not going to create an irresistible offer for B2B services cuz it's not going to be valuable because how can it be if it if it's just a mass appeal to B2B services? It can't be specific enough to be valuable. >> I think that's where we've struggled with our outreach or marketing is we are too broad and and we've helped a lot of clients >> Yeah. >> that we've enjoyed and we've also profited off of. >> So again, I don't want you to niche the whole business right now today. I just want you to run a campaign to get more inquiries from Bob. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah? >> We do need to think about the B2B services aspect of like who exactly within that we want to pinpoint. >> And just choose >> For today, just choose one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah? >> Yeah. >> Okay. It's okay for you to do this not perfect, but at least you're doing it the correct way. >> Mhm. >> It's more important that it be correct and then you can go back in and do a different one. But at least now you know what to do. So there's a general rule of thumb cuz a lot of people are like, I have no idea how much my clients make. Rule of thumb is in corporate America for every employee they have, it's about $200,000 of revenue. Rule of thumb. So a 25-person company should be doing about $5 million in revenue. Rule of thumb. Okay? >> Okay. >> And then you can also use Perplexity or Gemini or something else to cross-reference that to make sure Bob lives in Southern California, runs a sales training company with about 25 employees based on whatever data that is publicly available, what you guesstimate as to what they do in terms of annual revenue. >> Mhm. Okay. >> But general rule of thumb. Now, I I know business um averages, so that when somebody builds a profile and I listen to it, I'm like, it's off. I can tell you right now it's wrong. So try to do that as accurately as you can for one person. You'll see the benefit immediately. >> Got it. >> So for example, if I were to tell you my ideal client works in entertainment, do you know who that is? Um they work in the video game space and they are an execu- executive creative director. Do you have a better picture of who this person is? And if I tell you it's a man and that person's 34, does that help you? So, you That's what we're trying to get to because I can then start to predict the problems and the challenges, the goals, the hopes, and the dreams, and the fears of that person versus a really broad industry. >> Got it. >> Okay, who else has got one? >> So, the reason I got you to do the previous client exercise is cuz I actually want you to pick a previous or existing client. So, when you're thinking through this, I want it to be a real person. Cuz that's the only way to avoid the trap of what Chris just said, which is making it too broad. Right? So, we are thinking about uh we know this person because we've done work with them in the past. So, we should be able to answer some of these questions around the frustrations and the >> Client avatar, it should be a real person or should be a fictitious person that is like a real person? >> Should be a real person. >> Okay. And that we that we've all that we've worked with that we've worked with. >> Yeah, got it. Thank you. >> No problem. >> Cool. Megan, 38-ish. Uh 250 million CMO of 38. >> Now, of what CMO of what? >> Oh, oh, food manufacturing company. >> Okay. >> What kind of food? >> Uh big box food and grocery. So um >> Processed foods? >> Processed foods. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Cool, that works. So, let's just stick with you for a minute. What What frustrations and desires have you come up with for Megan? >> Oh, um let's see here. Frustrations, marketing and creative of work moves through an inconsistent workflow. Brand execution varies across customer-facing materials. Projects slow down because responses and approvals take too long. >> Okay. Thoughts, Chris? >> That one straddles between what they might say and what you would say. I would like for you to err more on how they would say it. A lot of times we we make the avatar say what we want cuz we deliver on those services. >> Mhm. >> You have to forget about you for a minute. >> Sure. >> And just really dive into that. So, if you plug in this information into whatever AI engine and ask them what are What's your name, Meg? >> Megan. >> Ask it what are Megan's most likely to say about their frustrations. >> Mhm. >> And using their language. And see what it would say and compare to your answers okay? >> Okay. >> Is that what it said? >> It That's what it said. What I put in based on what I know about her with Go ahead. I mean, she's complain is inconsistent workflow, inconsistent branding, slow response. >> Slow response time. Slow response time from >> Just projects. We're on retainer, so they're constantly getting us work. >> So, here here's how the difference might be and we can argue about this. She's a CMO. >> Yeah. >> Megan. Of a really big company. >> Yeah. >> I don't think she would say, \"Guys, we have a problem with slow response time.\" I just don't imagine her in a meeting and she would say that. What would she say? >> Well, she's like the coolest CMO ever, so she's like, \"Hey Hector, I've noticed that blah blah blah.\" >> No, you're not even in the room, bro. I'm talking about she's having a meeting >> Oh. >> internally. >> Okay. >> See, you already designed your situation for her to talk to you. >> Got it. >>
1 that's pretty awesome, but let's stay real. She's having a meeting, she's really upset, and and the heads of departments, senior vice presidents in the room. What is she saying? >> I expect this stuff to be done within x amount of days and I need to make sure that happens. And I'm frustrated because it's not happening on a consistent basis. We're not getting brand alignment. >> Well, just one thing at a time. >> Okay. >> So, you see the language change a little bit? Like, \"I'm frustrated that we keep missing deadlines. I can't be running a you know, quarter billion dollar company here when you all can't deliver.\" >> Right. >> As cool as you want to be, she's still the boss. >> Sure. >> Bosses don't be like, \"Well, strategically we're not hitting quarter four.\" They don't talk like that. >> Right. >> That's you, you know, like when you watch a movie and they speak dialogue that you're like, \"No human talks like that.\" You're writing like that writer. >> Mhm. >> Write like Quentin Tarantino. It's like, I think that's how they talk. >> Yeah. >> Okay? >> Okay. >> The more you can do that, the better we're going to be. Yes? >> Another mistake that we often make with these symptoms and these challenges is we talk about them very much as stage four in terms of when that project is being delivered. So, like, missed deadlines and all these things are only applicable when the project is on the table, when the project is being delivered. Now, the problem with that is, what happens for the rest of the time? And so, one of the challenges that creatives come with me and they say is, you know, I have all these great conversations, but the client doesn't have a project right now. They don't have any projects for me. So, they just sit there twiddling their thumbs waiting for a project. But, that's very much a kind of worker mentality. What we're trying to do is we're trying to shift up the chain so that we anticipate these problems and challenges before they become problems and challenges. So, before deadlines are missed, what mistakes are they making and what are they saying to themselves? What's happening in their day-to-day world before they get to that point where the project is actually being delivered. >> I guess it's a long process, so I don't know internally where they start. I just know when it affects me and what past frustrations have been like and how we've resolved them. >> Yeah. This is a fairly common response, especially the bigger the corporation. There's so many middle management between you and them, so it's really hard for you to figure it out. I'm pretty sure if you ask the machine, if I'm at stage four, what would stage two sound like, reverse engineer from that. >> Okay. Cool. >> That's what I'm trying to get to. See, so, it's one thing for us not to hit the bull's-eye, it's another thing for us not to know where the bull's-eye is. We're just spinning around in the dark taking shots. You all should know this is the bull's-eye and this isn't it, and then your creative brain will figure out how to find that answer. >> Okay. >> And you could do an informational interview. It's like, \"Uh Megan, uh if you can spare 7 minutes of your time for an informational review, I'm trying to figure out where CMOs like you get stuck. There's nothing to sell or nothing to buy, I promise you. And you know, coffee's on me.\" >> Mhm. >> Something like that. >> Yeah. >> Okay? >> Cool. >> Yeah, because they don't You know, I can tell because what you're saying has been sanitized through three layers of middle management, then you get the project. They're not telling you what it sounds like from their point of view. Right? It's like she might say something like, \"We are 60 days behind industry average from uh go-to-market strategy.\" She might say something like that. And she's not happy. >> Yeah. I wonder if I picked the wrong client because we've been doing work with them for 15 years and on retainer for 12 of those 15 years. I rarely speak to them. They send the It's almost like I rarely speak. We just have a >> You You didn't pick the wrong client. You just haven't taken the time to do what Chris just said. >>
1 You haven't had that 7-minute conversation with them. >> I have audited and I have heard and she hasn't had many complaints >> She hasn't had complaints about your service. >> Correct. >> Yeah, we're not talking about your service. >> Okay. We're talking about >> Their world. What's happening in their world. People only really care about their world. >> Sure. >> So >> Okay. >> You only become relevant when something in their world changes where you need to be relevant. >> Okay. >> I need you for this project cuz it's now all of a sudden relevant in my world. That time window is tiny. >> Sure. >> The rest of the time they're existing, they're just getting on with their lives. And what creatives find hard is to try and kind of crowbar themselves into their world so that all of a sudden there's work for them. >> Okay. >> Right? How many of you have felt like you're just not a priority? Like you're trying to talk to this client and you just Yeah. >> Oh, for sure. >> time. Why are you not a priority? Because you haven't said anything or you haven't positioned yourself in a way that is relevant to what is actually going on in their world. So, your project and your work is like number 10 in their priority list of [Â __Â ] that they need to think about on a daily basis. This exercise is trying to get you to make it number one. If you can figure out what is going on day-to-day that they are losing sleep over, that they're talking about in the boardroom, that they are literally pointing to with their team, and you can start meeting them where they are with that language, you all of a sudden go from a 10 priority to a one priority. Holy [Â __Â ] maybe Chris knows something that we don't. Hold on, what was that thing you just said? Oh my god, I had that thought the other day. What am I missing here? Hey Chris, you know that thing you just wrote on LinkedIn or you know that message you just sent me the other week about when you wake up and that's exactly what just happened to me. >> Hector, do you consider yourself a proactive person or a reactive person? Quite proactive. What you're doing is reactive. You don't respond until it's ready to be a real thing. And first of all, I want to say congratulations. Anybody who's had a client for 15 years and giving you steady work is an amazing thing. Let's not take that for granted. That's pretty cool. But you're only waiting for them to call you, that's called reactive. So, now we're going to be a dog that goes out to hunt and we're going to find new game, even if it's within the same client or clients just like them. So, we're going to go from a passive to an active role. And I'll tell you something, I'm going to pretend like right now you sell hammers. Sure. So, you're looking for nails. Sure. And all you only tune in when you hear a nail, it's like I got a hammer, but only at the point in which they have a nail and they they want to drive something into the wall. What When we do business strategy, especially for creative agencies, is we're like put away, you sell nothing. Let's go on onto more of a consultative level business strategy and try to understand what their needs are, some of which we're not interested in or nor can we service, but there's lots of other things we might be able to service that we never even thought about. And here's the cool part. If you wrote that article on LinkedIn that touched upon a pain point that she has, she might say, \"Hey team, check out this guy, Hector. He's doing his thing. We need to talk to him.\" And that's where they smile and say, \"We already work with him, boss.\" You've done your job. >> Okay. >> But right now, you're not even talking to her at all. You're so far down the food chain, you don't even know that. You're in the I've already identified a problem. We already set a set a budget, and we're going to call a couple of people. We'll just call Hector again. He always does good work. >> Perhaps I'm getting lazy, but >> Well, let's not use a label judgment. >> Okay. >> It's just you don't know any better until right now, which is cool. >> Sure. They bonused us out every year without us >> Congratulations. >> And raise our retainer every year even though >> you doing here then? No, I was just asking a question. >> the wrong This is my ideal client. >> Great. >> I love my I need 10 >> you like two of them or you'd like your ideal client to be your super ideal client? >>
1 I have four. They're my best, and I need five more just like them. >> Okay. >> That's why I'm here. >> Well, fantastic. >> Yeah. >> We'll do that exercise then. >> Cool. >> I hate skipping ahead with things, but I'm super conscious of time. Um there's one other thing we need to do, and then we're going to go and build an asset. So, imagine that LinkedIn post, and imagine at the bottom of the LinkedIn post, there's something that will assess where they are. We'll assess that gap between where they are now and where they be, and it's going to give them a score, and it's going to show them where they can improve to get from A to B. That's what we're going to build together. And the reason I'm going to get you guys to build an assessment today is cuz I believe it's one of the fastest and most powerful things that you can build for your ideal clients. So, think about when you have something wrong with you and you go to the doctor. What do they do? When you step into that doctor's office, what do they do? >> Ask questions. >> They ask you questions. And what are they doing? What are they trying to establish by asking you questions? >> Create a profile of you. >> Hm. >> Or or or um find a problem. >> Yeah. Well, they're trying to find the problems cuz you're coming in with symptoms, but what you want to know is what's creating these symptoms. Right? That's why you go to the doctor, cuz if you knew, then you would just know what the exact problem is. But we don't, do we? We Google the symptoms, and then we look at the things that are the worst they could possibly be that come up, and we tell ourselves we've probably got that thing. Right? But we're not the expert, the doctor is. And we see them as an expert, because they're able to listen to symptoms diagnose what's wrong with us, find the problem, and then present us with a solution or some options. Well, we're going to do that exact same thing for our clients. >> The metaphor is great. It's not accurate. >> Okay, why? >> Because, at least in America, Americans Western doctors don't actually treat the problem. They always treat the symptom. You got a cough? Oh, we'll get rid of the cough. You could have asbestos or mold growing in your house, they do not really address that. So, the theory is, and if you just really study how doctors work, it tells you a lot about how you might want to work. First of all, the doctor comes referred, right? And you go in there, before you can make an appointment, the the whoever it is asks you why you're seeing the doctor, so you have to tell them something. They write a report, and when you come in, you don't just get to see the doctor. They put you on the scale, they take your temperature, they do all the basic diagnostics first, and then you wait wait in a room. And then the doctor, who's reading the thing outside, is prepping right then and there for the sales call, goes in, has assumptions about what you may may not be uh be suffering from, and depending on how good they are, they ask you a series of very calibrated questions to eliminate possibilities of what it may or may not be, cuz you come in self-diagnosed. Right? And the better they are, the the fewer questions they got to go through, cuz it's like, okay. And if it's something really serious, they're going to go for more expensive tests or refer out to a specialist. Really study that. Now, you can ask yourself, do you want to be a general practitioner, or do you want to be the specialist, and how do you want to run the business? And and you know like there's a rookie in the room like they're a doctor in training cuz they're asking you all sorts of weird there's a wild goose chase when the real doctor is like okay cough one time okay chance are it's these two things I'm going to run one quick test and we'll know sit sit tight for 5 minutes. That's how they work and then they prescribe and you're done. >> So let's just imagine they're a good doctor. So I appreciate that is very true about medicine but let's imagine they're a good doctor, right? So before we create that what we want to know is what questions are we going to ask to figure out if this person needs to go to a specialist or if they're okay just here or or whatever, right? And so there's there's kind of two versions of this. The first one is the qualifying criteria. So what makes someone an ideal client? Now this should be quite easy because we've got the ideal client in our mind. So we should just be able to say well they're generating this much revenue they have these kind of frustrations and challenges but there might be a few other things that they have or we need to know about them in order to determine whether they're an ideal client. So just quickly this exercise we're going to do and then we're going to get into building something. If you just click here on page number seven the qualifying criteria template and there's kind of four to five types of qualifying criteria we want to look at. The first one is their current situation. So if your ideal client is doing 250 million in revenue and someone fills out a form and says that they're doing less than 100 grand are they an ideal client? No. Right? So we want to give them some options so that they can self-select and say I'm one of one of these people, right? It's a bit like if we stick on the doctor analogy if I'm a an adult GP and someone fills in a form and they're under 12 they probably don't want to see me they want to see a pediatrician, right? Cool. So, that's the first one. Then the biggest challenge, we just want to list the things that we've come up with. So, they're going to select one of these things. So, it could be three, could be five. This is more just data for us. As we're going to create this assessment, we want to collect some of this data. And s
1ame with the desired outcome or solution. So, hopefully this should be a kind of copy and paste exercise where we just get this in. The fourth thing we ideally want to know is how urgent does this feel. So, if you think about when you come with symptoms, the doctor's trying to figure out like do we need to send you to the emergency room or do we need to just give you some tablets or do you need to come back in 6 months? Like what's the level of urgency? Well, we want to figure this out for our clients as well. So, how urgent is this problem to solve right now? How quickly do you want to reach this desired outcome? Want to try and measure some kind of level of urgency. And then the final thing is kind of what I just did as custom qualifying criteria. So, there might be something that you need to know to apart from these four things to figure out if they're actually an ideal client, right? So, for me I ask questions like um how long have you been running your business? Because typically we don't really work with people that have been running their business for less than 3 to 5 years. So, our ideal client is someone who's been running their business for kind of 10 years plus. Right? So, that would be my fifth qualifying question. Does that make sense as a concept? That should be fairly easy. Just do your best to fill that in as quickly as possible cuz I want to get you guys actually building something. >> So, what is the average size of engagement for project for you? It doesn't matter what the number is. I'll just show you the math. Don't make crazy weird numbers. It'll be difficult to do. Yeah. Great. So, 20K right? So, this is an engagement and how often are they doing this per year you think? Once. Just once a year? >> For that particular engagement. >> Okay. Well, maybe this is not so bad. Because what you can do is you can say their gross revenue, right? Gross rev. On an annual basis will be let's just say it's a million dollars. Most companies spend on average about 10% for marketing. And that includes all the internal fees and vendors. So their budget annually would be 100k. So if you say okay, a company that's doing a million dollars in revenue, they might have a comms person internally or buyer something like that. What do you think they have to pay them? >> Uh 80? >> Probably, right? >> Yep. >> So they only have at this point minus 80. So the comms person they only have 20k left to spend on a vendor. So they're never going to give you that full budget because if you hose them, they're screwed. You know, contingency. >> Mhm. >> What is a safe number that they hold back for contingency? Back in the agency days, you recall? It's roughly a number or percentage. >> a a percentage of their overall overall? >> Yeah, if they have 100k, what would they hold back? >> Uh I would say 10%. >> It's usually 10 to 20%. >> Yeah. >> I've heard that it's 20%. I don't know if it's true. So they're going to take out uh what, 4k from this? Um 10% is 2k. So now you have 16k left. Okay. So we know first of all they're underfunded to do this with you. And there's other costs in here, just not that 80k. So we know that you cannot even approach any client that does less than a million, not even close. So all you do is do the math. So at 2 mil, they have 32k, still probably not enough. So that's why you kind of have to go up. Probably your client has to do at least 5 million plus. I'm pretty sure it has to be higher than that, but that's how you do this. You reverse engineer it. That's right. Okay? And you know, a company only does one shot a year, that ain't it. Cuz they have to What do they do the rest of the year? This won't work because the what you do for them might happen once a year, but they have other things they want they need to do. Social media posts and a whole bunch of other things. >> Mhm. >> So, when you factor all that in, this number is going to be like probably 20 million now. And that's why when somebody has a 300K annual budget of I mean revenue, they can very rarely afford anybody in this room. Rarely. That's why I like his answer 250 million, we can do something with that. >> That's right. >> Right? Now, some really innovative companies or some companies that work in a commodity space, they may spend 70% in marketing. Companies like water, commodities, or sodas, they spend a lot of money on marketing. Uh finance companies like credit card companies, they spend a ton on marketing. But most companies generally are around that 10% range. That's how y
1ou know. >> Yeah, this this object that that this product I'm selling it's it's more a startup strategy product. So, it's one-on-one. There's probably only one or two employees. And so that they don't really have >> I see. They're early. >> It's way early. So, that's like an early stage one-on-one, me and a founder. >> Yeah. >> That number should be 80,000 for let's say even even it's still a startup company for for the same product. >> Yep. >> 20 people. >> So, by virtue of you working with an early stage pre-funded probably company or angel investor, they very rarely have a lot of money and they spend it very cautiously. It's one of the problems. Cuz their investors say, \"What are you doing? Why would you spend all this money on this? What if you get that wrong?\" Did you want to say something real quick? >> Real quick. The only reason I have certain clients My my ideal client is 20 to 200 million. 80% of our clients are that. It's because in the manufacturing, they're consistently coming out with new products and that's how I >> CPG? >> CPG. >> Perfect. >> That's how >> industry. >> Yeah. >> Uh we are refreshing our packaging. We're launching new products. We're discontinuing as we're doing that. Always need need have a need. That's great. >> So, that's interesting. Let's just tie into that for a second because that probably ties into some of the frustrations and desires, right? So, if they're always launching packaging and new products, what it's that's okay. You know, I said before like oh, it's only becomes relevant when you've got a project. In your case, there's a slight exemption to that rule because that's part of their business model. They're always launching new things, right? So, what are some of the frustrations that they face as a result of constantly launching new products? >> New regulatory for packaging. >> Great. So, now we're talking. That has nothing to do with you. Has nothing to do with what you offer. That's probably a discussion they're having in the boardroom. Hey, this new regulatory thing just came out. Oh, man, are we going to So, just as an example, and this is just straight off the top of my head, it might be a [Â __Â ] idea, but what about if there was an assessment or a scorecard that they could run their ideas through to see if it would pass some of the new regulatory ideas, right? Hey, by the way, guys, I've got this thing. It's for CPD. Blah blah blah blah blah. You take this assessment and it tells you whether your new product launch is going to be a success. It measures in these three areas. Um, regulation, uh design packaging whatever right? And you take it and it tells you straight away. How valuable on a scale of 1 to 10 might that be for your ideal client? >> Oh, very very valuable. >> Right. Now, imagine that there's somebody who's got a bunch of those people in their network and you go to them and say, \"Hey, man, I know y
1ou work with a lot of these people and the idea of partners is that you don't have competing services. You I know you help them with this, but I also help them with this. And I just built this tool. And I from having these clients, I know that one of the things they're really concerned about is regulations. And one of the things they spend a long time trying to figure out is their go-to-market. Is this thing going to work? So, I just built this tool. I just built this assessment that looks at these three key areas and it gives them the score and it also tells them what they need to focus on before they launch that product. Do you know anyone that might get get value from that? It's totally free, on me. Beautiful. Right. Now you've got an irresistible offer that you've just shared with a partner, and that partner's like, \"Dude, Hector's got this really cool tool that does this thing, right? I wonder who else would find this valuable.\" It makes them look good cuz it's free. They haven't had to do anything for it. And then you get the people that fill out that assessment, you get all the leads. >> Sure. >> That's where we're going. That's what we're trying to build. >> Good. Thank you. Just for a clarification, did you say consumer packaged good or CBD? >> CPG, consumer packaged goods. >> I think I heard you say CBD, right? >> Yeah. >> So, CPG. >> Same difference. Tomato, tomato. >> I just wanted to clarify. >> They are. >> [laughter] >> In California, they are. >> CBD needs CPG. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Both need regulations, but one more than the other. >> Okay. All right. Matt, what's the next thing we're doing? >> Let Let's build something, right? Let's build an asset. I want you walking away today with something like that example we just gave for Hector that feels like, \"Man, this could actually be really valuable for my for ideal clients.\" Recently, ScoreApp brought out a tool which kind of changed the game because up until this point, it was quite a long process to build a scorecard, right? And an assessment. Um but now we have this AI builder that these guys have built. And it's a little bit like if you've ever used lovable or anything like that, right? You just kind of type your ideas in and it will actually build out the questions, it will build out the landing page, it will build out basically everything for you. So, if you go to the workbook, and you just hit the link that says ScoreApp AI builder, and we're going to see now that we've got an ideal client, what kind of ideas might the AI scorecard builder or the AI assessment builder come up with for our ideal client? Right? So, we're just going to I think I've got this prompt on here. Yeah, right? So, number two, you can literally just copy and paste this if you want. Help me create an assessment for your ideal client. And remember, the more specific you can make it, the better. So, it's not B2B services. Sorry, we're on page number 10. Yeah. So, we'll start with some ideas, and then we'll have a quick break, and then we'll come back and build something. So, the way I've designed this, hopefully, you can just copy and paste this into here, and you've got your top frustrations. You've got your top desires. You've got your ideal client. So, you're just going to put it in. >> [snorts] >> I might just use an example as one of you guys so we can build it. So, Yeah, let's build it for Hector. Oh. Help me create an assessment for Hector. Let's describe your ideal client. >> CMO. They do smart packaging. CPG. It is between 20 to 200 mil. >> I know his ideal client. They do CMO for a consumer packaging good, big box store. Processed foods, you said, right? Yeah. Like snacks and things like that. Like Frito-Lay? >> Like Reese's peanut butter foods. >> I don't know them. >> Potato salad, things like that. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. >> So, they do >> And they do the >> having a grand assessment for a CMO of a consumer >> package CPG, yeah. >> goods company >> goods company that does uh between 20 to 250 million dollars annually. >> Okay. >> Big box store. >> What's their Let's just pick one frustration for now. Like the biggest thing you can think of. >> Their biggest frustration. What do you think their biggest frustration is, right now? >> Uh consistent branding across all their >> No, that's your That's your We've gone back to >> Hector, you you're in the phantom loop again. Hector, hold on to the mic. It's not dangerous. >> Okay. >> [laughter and gasps] >> Yeah. >> Their biggest frustration uh >>
1 From their perspective? >> Getting product out super fast to the marketplace. >> So >> They're slow to slow to market. >> Yeah, struggle with uh being slow to market. Um why is that Why is that frustration what? What happens as a result of being slow to market? >> They'll miss They They get competition, so they They need to get their product out before. >> Okay, uh slow to market and have lost >> Lost their brand visibility. >> Sure, that's your language. And one more, so what are the Oh, actually, maybe we do that. So, be slow to market and uh want Okay, so we're just going to start broad and then we're going to narrow it down as we go, and it's going to give us some ideas, right? So, it's going to say Hey, pick from one of these ideas. So, it says, \"To shape a high-converting assessment for a CMO in CPG who's slow to market and wants more revenue.\" What's the assessment for your primary goal? Here are some suggestions. Lead magnets to book strategy calls with CMOs, uh internal diagnostic workshop/webinar. So, we're going to say lead magnets to book strategy calls, right? You want more strategy calls with CMOs. Of course, we're going to click this one. >> That's the quickest to making a sale path. >> Yeah, maybe not the exact right one, but quickest to make a money with some money. So strategy session. >> Well, it's a straight to booking a strategy call versus like, \"Hey, you got to take a webinar with me, or you're doing an internal diagnostic.\" In reality, that's probably the more more likely of the things that they'll do. >> Yeah. So, it says, \"Perfect. What do you do for your company uh that you want the CMO to book a strategy call for?\" So, we help them speed up innovation. We're a growth / brand strategy consultancy. I would say that one's pretty accurate, right? Pretty close to you guys. Yeah? Yeah, you could choose your own. Like, if none of these don't work, you can type your own in, but just for speed, does that We're We're a growth / brand strategy consultancy for CPG. >> Sure. >> Yeah? >> Yeah. >> Cool. >> That sounds right. >> Okay, so which type of CPG company is this assessment mainly for? So, this questions feel specific and credible. Here are some suggestions. Mid-market brands, 20 million to 200 million, enterprise CPG with complex innovation and approvals, challenger brands launching new products. Which out of those would you pick? >> Challenger. >> Challenger. >> Challenger brands? I feel like that's a little bit cuz didn't you say they were like doing like 250 million or something? >> 20 to >> Launching new products Oh, I suppose yeah, launching new products frequently. >> Yeah. >> Okay. DTC plus retail. >> So, what what Matt is showing you there is that the Score app will ask you lots of questions to help you build the assessment. It used to be that you would have to do this. Now, the AI prompts you through all this, and it's seemingly asking you a lot of good questions here. >> Nice. Last discovery question so we can tailor the scoring and the call to action. What does slow to market usually look like for these challenger brands? Pick the closest. Here are some suggestions. Too many hands See, this is great, right? This is an example of the Scorecard drilling down into the symptoms, not challenges. It's recognized that slow to market is a challenge maybe in your language, and now it's saying, \"Okay, well, how would they recognize that, right?\" So, it's saying um \"What does slow to market usually look like for these challenger brands? Pick the closest. Too many hand-offs and approvals so the launch is slip, retail readiness and packaging / compliance delays, they launch but messaging and positioning are unclear so velocity So, velocity is weak.\" >> Number two. >> Told you. >> Number two, retail readiness and packaging right? >> Okay. Sweet. >> Let's see it it do its magic. >> Awesome. Hector, can you see the screen from there? I know, it's a little small. Can you command shift plus or whatever that is? There it goes. Okay. I know that's a little bit better, but Okay cool. >> Okay, so this is another really cool feature. If you give it If you give us your URL, it will at least pull some of your branding and logo and stuff into this so that it pulls you automatically into the into the landing page. Do you want to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like one thing I coach a lot of designers and the landing pages and stuff it comes up with from a design perspective aren't the best, but it's a really good start that you can play around with saves you going and entering all the brand colors manually and your logo and everything, r
1ight? >> It's like a hand grenade, it's pretty close. >> Yeah. Hand grenade. [laughter] >> MBN Creatives >> Okay, so www.n for November >> Like Making Brands New MBN Creatives >> MBN >> Yeah. >> So M for Mike >> Making Brands New >> [laughter] >> M for night, B for Bravo >> There you go. >> N for November. Just teaching you the phonetical alphabet as well. You know, you know, I just like to keep people surprised about what I'm going to teach when I'm here. And then creative >> More bucks now. >> Yeah, yeah. >> creative.com >> Okay. Okay, so now it's going to give us some options to choose from for the scorecard concepts, right? So we're just choosing concept right now. So the first one, pretty close to kind of what what we suggested, right? So the retail ready launch scorecard, find out what's slowing your next retail launch and how to fix it. Right? Summary, a diagnostic built for challenger CPG brands selling DTC plus retail. Da da da da, you can read. Um your speed to shelf score. See, do you see how like specific it's getting because we've given it the ideal client and how how great this is. Um a fast high clarity assessment that produces a single score showing how launch ready your brand is for retail expression. Um what is your launch bottleneck? So any of those three really resonate with you? >> Yeah, B. >> Okay, B. Let's go with B. Continue with this concept. Isn't it so cool, right? We're just like clicking buttons and it's it's giving us ideas. >> The speed to shelf is like a cool name, too. >> Yeah. >> It makes sense. It's using kind of their vernacular and you got a little duration going. So it's pretty clever with how it's even naming this. >> Yeah. >> Right? A lot of this I'm not a lot of this all of this depends on you identifying an ideal client profile. You're welcome. >> Thank you. >> Right? >> Garbage in, garbage out. >> Right. That's why we spend so much time helping you try to figure out who your diet ideal client is and making sure it's accurate. >> Yep. So now what it's going to do is going to come up with a bunch of suggested questions. So you once it's created these, you can go in and edit them really easily, but it just saves you actually going and coming up with them yourself cuz obviously this is a big barrier to entry for a lot of people. Um I'm just going to scroll down quickly cuz it usually produces quite a few. But was what's Sorry, which best describes your role in launches right now? So is even kind of giving you some qualification questions a little bit, right? Cuz it kind of wants to know who I'm talking to. Am I talking to the the marketing manager? Am I talking to the founder? Right? What's the number one outcome you want from improving speed to shelf? So we're talking a little bit about desires. Now the cool thing about this and I'll show you a little bit behind the back end in a minute of ScoreApp, but if you imagine, let's say 10 people fill this out, it will start to show you patterns. It will say 60% of people that filled this out said that the number one outcome they want from from improving speed to shelf is fewer delays and surprises in packaging compliance. >> Yeah. >> Right? So you now know that your ideal client, 60% of them have this as their top priority. So when you talk to them or if you want to create content, you've got some really tangible things that you know are actually happening in their world and you haven't even had to have a conversation with anyone yet. >> Beautiful. >> Cool, right? >> Yeah. >> Um when launch slips, what's the most common reason? So, what it's doing here is it's like suggesting scores as well, right? So, it's giving kind of plus one here, plus one there. And essentially, what it's going to do is it's going to it's going to kind of score them. So, do you have a single agreed definition of retail ready packaging compliance needs to do that everyone uses? Yes, they're going to get a point. No, they're not going to get any points or unsure, they're not going to get any points, right? So, the idea is that if they're doing this really well, they score really high. If they're not doing it well, they score low. And so, if they meet your ideal client criteria, but they also have a low score, how easy is that conversation to start? >> Right. >> Hey, by the way, Hector, I noticed that you scored really low in this category. Would you be open to a quick conversation about how we might be able to improve that? And that's it. That's your sales conversation. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> Or they score really low, you have a resource you can send them with a CTA to then the resource. Most of our clients who score low on this find this resource to be helpful. They read that like, man, this guy know So, you're priming them to see you as an expert with solutions for them. So, the sales call is very easy. >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely right. And the cool thing about ScoreApp is that you can actually tailor the results page. So, when you add these scores up, it will give you an option to create what they call dynamic content. So, if somebody scores low in a category around your ideal client, so they're not really an ideal client, you can direct them to a resource. But if they score high and they're like, this is an i
1deal client, you can direct them to book a call with you directly. >> Mhm. >> Right? So, if you imagine, you go to sleep, a partner sends this out to their list, you get 50 people fill this out, five of them are your ideal clients, you wake up the next day and you've got three calls with your ideal clients booked in your calendar. >> Sounds amazing. >> Right? Cool. So, I'm just going to go ahead and create this cuz it's it's given us quite a few questions here. Um, it shouldn't have given us more than 20 or 25, I think. Um, but we're just going to click build the scorecard. And it's now going to go away and it's going to build the landing page, it's going to build the scores, it's going to build the results page, it's going to do it all for you, right? Now, like Chris said, it's it's a hand grenade, so it's going to do most of the work, but it's it's 80% and then as creatives we're going to put the the icing on the cake, okay? So, I'll show you a little bit what this looks like, but I'm not going to spend ages and ages going through and tweaking the questions and tweaking the design because you guys are creatives, you're intelligent people. I think you can figure that bit out. What I really want to make sure we have time for is how do we get this scorecard in front of our ideal clients without sending cold DMs, without spending hours creating content, right? >> Yep. >> Cool. So, I'm now building your scorecard. Your scorecard is now ready to build. So, we're going to just click go to builder. And this is kind of where the magic happens. Now, I would encourage you to just watch these videos on the back end of Score Score App cuz it just talks you through the platform. I'm not going to play them now, but if if you're watching this, I would have I would suggest that you do. And obviously, you can just click next through here. Um but I just want to I just want to show you this one feature. It's spat out a little a little test a little scorecard for you here. Um and again, I said it's rough, so don't don't judge this from a high-level branding, design, web perspective, but yeah, okay, it is what it is, right? So, stop losing retail launches to hidden bottlenecks. Miss the launch date, blah blah blah. Start your speed to shelf scorecard. So, I would suggest that we work the most on this. And I've in the workbook, which I won't go through massively now, I've got something called a hook generator. I would work on this cuz this thing here is the kind of hook that's going to get people to take the scorecard. So, stop losing retail launches to hidden bottlenecks is okay, but what I would probably do is have your pain point and your desire in this hook somewhere. And I've got a GPT where if you put this in, it will give you ideas of better hooks. So, this is this above the fold as the web gurus will tell you, is the most important thing, right? So, you want to try and get the the kind of desires and the challenges up here somewhere, and then start your shelf uh scorecard. They just put their name and their email in it, and it's going to um spit out a score for them. So, you probably want to add to this, but it's it's a really good start. I just want to quickly show you before we we go on to the partner piece. >> Wait, was that the whole thing? >> No, no, no. That's just the landing page. >> Well, can we just Oh, did you scroll all the way to the bottom or not? >> Well, that's what it just created for now, and then if you go to edit If you go to edit this, basically, um ba ba ba ba landing pages. It's just a kind of wizzywig builder, right? So, if you go into this landing page, you you can just add content and section sections here really easily. Um >> Is it using your colors? Is that your logo? >> Uh yeah, it's my logo. >> Okay. Is that your logo color? >> Uh no, it's close. That's gray, yeah. >> Okay, like we said. >> We're saying >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> You Well, that's not a color-accurate monitor, so you we're seeing two different things. >> It is >> It is color accurate, man. Pull the hex code on that. >> So, all of the content here is kind of in blocks, so you would just choose things here which you feel are a kind of relevant to the way that you typically display content, right? So, if you wanted some testimonials, there's like testimonial blocks. If you want a video, if you want the different categories. So yeah wizzywig builder. I'm not going to go into too much detail about that. The The thing I just want you to show to show you guys really quickly is the results page. Um so, it's going to spit out a result for them. For your ideal client, it's going to give them an overall score, um and it's going to give a bunch of copy and stuff here, which I uh would encourage you to change. Um one of the features here is is dynamic content, okay? So, depending on where they score, low, medium, or high, you can display different c
1ontent um on this page. So, one of the things that we do with our ideal clients is we create a section in here, which is essentially a a call to action. And the call to action is going to be something like book a strategy call, right? So, I'm going to click here. Um it's going to come in. We're going to make sure that this is dynamic content. And what we can do is we can go back into the categories if we want to, and we can have a category which is just for our qualification criteria. And we don't have to let the ideal client know that that's what it's doing, but it's doing that behind the scenes. So, here we say low, it says low content, but we can change it to what whatever name we want. Let's say we want this high because it means they're an ideal client. We can actually edit this so that this link goes to our booking calendar, for example. And this section will only be shown to people who score high in that qualified criteria category. Right? And so, why that's important is because if you've got this amazing tool, you don't want to be booking calls with non-ideal clients cuz then you're just back in the exact same situation you are when you get a crap referral. So, what you want is you only want to be offering your calendar and your time to people that are qualified. And that's why I love this tool. And the other thing you can do is you can create audiences. So, audiences are similar, but they're just a really quick uh kind of way to to qualify people, basically. So, they are like conditions. So, I might call this like qualifying criteria. And then, for example, um one of these, so which best describes your role in launches right now? I might select that. If the answer is um I own the brand marketing, but launches are mostly led elsewhere, right? I might say I might save that. So, I might call this say unqualified. And then save that. Okay? So, anybody who answers yes to this question is going to come into this audience and then depending on what CRM or whatever you use, you could have a different email sequence for unqualified which just sends them to your LinkedIn to consume your content, maybe you have a podcast, something like that. So, they're just kind of getting warmed up and then people that are qualified, we could create another one that says if they answer yes to this question, they're qualified, then they go into a completely different sequence and that could just be inviting you, \"Hey, have a conversation with Hector. He's got over 20 years experience. He can look at your results and he can tell you in 20 minutes exactly what you need to do on your next launch. Book your call here.\" So, you're only getting calls booked in your calendar with qualified prospects. Does that make sense? Cool. We could and Daniel, if you follow Daniel Priestley, does full 2 3 hour workshops on scorecard marketing. In fact, there is a book that I've brought here to give you guys on scorecard marketing, how to how to get it and we'll put a link in the description below this video to get the scorecard marketing book cuz there's a whole This is a whole marketing strategy, right? But I just want you guys to see how quick and easy it is to build something like an assessment cuz we could sit here and we could brainstorm ideas about workshops and PDFs and whatever, but assessments actually have a much higher conversion rate as lead magnets than PDFs. Right? >> Let's do a quick recap and let's spin out to break. Quick recap, number one is if you use a quiz or an assessment tool, it allows you to qualify them while giving them value. You have a lot of nuance control and luckily through AI and and the kind of the smart people behind this it gets you something up really fast without making you all the heavy lifting cuz that's usually the bottom neck. Like I don't know where to start. I have to figure out the questions. I have to wait the score and it gives you a lot of highly customizable ways to identify who's a good fit for you. Clearly you don't want to talk to every single person who's like, \"I want to book.\" Cuz your calendar will be filled and you have nothing left to do and you'll hate all of us. We're not trying to do that. So you can see right now, you get to see really quickly who's a good fit, identify them, and determine next steps while also giving value to people even if they're not a good fit. You're not ready to go from something to shelf? What's that strategy to shelf or >> Yeah. >> Something like that, right? And now they know and they can go back to their team. And you can really work on this to your heart's content to make sure it's dialed in, the questions, the language. Matt was talking about it'll kick you out something. He strongly encourages you as I do as do I, the above the fold copy. That's got to be really strong. So why not just use another tool to generate 10 more headline ideas that really sound right? Okay. >> Uh based on your experience, how many people actually fill this out and how long does it take them to fill it out? >> It shouldn't take them more than 5 minutes. >> And is it 50% >> When you say fill them out, do you mean the landing page conversion or do you mean the amount of people that actually finish the questions? >> Yeah, the questionnaire. >> 80%. >> 80? >> Yeah, I'll show you. We did it for the registration for our book launch. We had something like 400 uh well, I don't know. I I've got the numbers here. Uh X 100 of people, so let's say it was like 270 and like 290 took it. >> Wow. >> So 270 out of 290 filled all the questions in. And we create every single lead magnet on ScoreApp and we just answer five simple Sorry, we just ask people five simple questions when they download anything from us, whether it's registering for an event, getting a copy of my book, whatever it is, and they are the five qualifying questions. So if they're qualified, they get different resources than if they're {quote} unquote unqualified. >> Sure. >> And so, if they're unqualified, we just send them to all of our free stuff because we know
1we don't work with anyone generating less than 100k in revenue. So, I'm not going to invite them to have a conversation cuz I already know that, you know, we're not going to work with them. So, it's just going to be a waste of both of our time. I just want to cover one more thing about uh ScoreApp before we go on to the partners piece. Who here doesn't really like sales that much? Okay, cool. The reason I want to cover this is because a few of you said, \"Okay, well, the sales call of would you like us to help you improve your score is okay, but what am I actually going to talk to them about?\" So, this particular feature isn't available on every single tier. I think it's the higher tiers. Um but, one of the cool things that you can do with ScoreApp is you can create PDF reports. So, you can actually create reports based on their questions and and scores. So, I just wanted to show you one of uh the reports that I've created on one of my score cards. So, imagine you're having a conversation with an ideal client who's taken this ScoreApp, and they book a call in, and they've they've got the copy of this PDF, right? And you say, \"Hey, guys, let's uh let's open up this PDF, and let's just go through your score.\" Right? So, it's going to show them Uh so, this is my particular road map, for example, and it's just talking about the the different layers. But, it's going to give them overall category scores. So, you can sit here and talk through this PDF and say, \"Cool, look, I noticed the differentiator is great. So, right now, you're obviously using your story, you're you're kind of differentiating yourself in the market, but you're really struggling at the moment to communicate that. Let's look at some of the reasons why that might be.\" Right? So, then I can talk through these kind of different areas of the road map, and all of this stuff is customizable depending on what they score. So, I can change what content is put into this PDF depending on what they score just like I can on the results page. So, I just wanted to kind of point out that as a tool because I think it's really useful for sales conversations and it's also useful for your content. Yeah, so this gets sent before you've even spoken to the So, they get this PDF in their inbox once they've taken the score. So, they can actually just pull this up and read through it and they hopefully will get some insight. And it you know, like you can see from this one it's it's pretty detailed, right? There's a lot of stuff in here that you can really go through. Now, these are I've created different sections for each of the scores. So, there's more content there. There's like a different bit of piece of content depending on what they've scored. Um, but yeah, I just thought that was a really cool feature that I wanted to to mention. >> I think the reason why a lot of people don't like sales calls is because they don't know what to talk about. They think it's like I'm going to squeeze you into something, use some psychological levers, create scarcity and urgency. And if we just actually wanted to review something together, I'm not even selling anything. I'm just reading the diagnostic with you in case you have any questions. And if you've done your job at this point, they have identified the problem, where they're weak, where you might be able to help them, and they're going to probably say, \"Can you help me do this?\" That's it. So, does this sound like it'd be scary? Cuz I know you don't like sales. You don't like friction. If you just went over the report, easy peasy, fresh and easy, lemon squeezy? Okay, cool. That's it. >> Yeah, awesome. Okay, so I want to shift gears a little bit. Um, let's come back to the PDF. So, we've built this assessment. There's a part here which I'm not going to get you to do now because it requires a little bit of longer input, shall we say? And I've called it test your message. And this is basically reaching out to some previous clients that you have good relationships with who meet your ideal client criteria and just getting some feedback on this concept. So, rather than Hector doing what a lot of creatives do, which is going away and being like, \"Oh, I'm going to tweak my landing page. No, does this look right here? And is this the perfect hook?\" And 2 weeks later, Hector still hasn't shipped his
1scorecard yet. He's just going to go, he's going to use the hook generator GPT that's going to give him some ideas, and he's just going to ask a client, \"Hey man, I just created this assessment. It shows you X, Y, and Z. Um how valuable would something like that be to you on a scale of 1 to 10?\" And we're just going to see what people say. And if they're like, \"Meh, two.\" Okay, maybe we need to go back to the drawing board a little bit, but hopefully we can ask them some questions, right? Oh, why did you say two? And what's what's happening for you right now? And we can do the 7-minute assessment and ask some of those deeper questions. Maybe we've got some of these challenges wrong. Right? So, I've I've actually got some templates here. I've got a message template guide, and I've got draft documents in this workbook that you can just use. You can just copy and paste this and send it to your previous clients. But my suggestion before you get too OCD on the landing page and the results page and all of this stuff is just go and get some feedback on this concept, on this idea. Does it resonate with people? Do a social post about it, right? Hey, I just This was actually one of the best I things I did that I thought was an amazing idea, and it like just flopped on social. Like no one commented on it, right? And then I was like, \"Um what about this idea?\" And I just thought, \"Meh, probably not going to work.\" And loads of people commented. I was like, \"Oh, I didn't expect that.\" I was still using the challenges and the desires, but I was just kind of going through them and testing different hooks and different angles. And one of them, loads of people responded with, and another one not really that many people. So, I just built the one that everyone responded with, right? Um so, that's your kind of homework from this training. Cuz if we sit here now and I'm like, \"Right, go message a bunch of people.\" We will be here all night. Um so, I want to talk about your trust grid. I want to talk about the people in your network right now who already have the attention and the trust of your ideal clients. So, I'm going to use Chris's framing around this. I'd like us to use our brains first, and then I would like us to use AI. So, maybe we start with Hector as as a group, I think we can help each other because often times it's easier for us to think of things from an outside perspective as it is for you running your business. So, Hector, just remind us all again, who is your ideal client and describe them in a way like Chris said that we can all picture that person. Like, \"Oh, yeah, I can all imagine somebody like that.\" >> Megan, 38. >> Yep. >> Okay. Mom. >> Yeah. >> Two daughters, one little son. >> Mhm. >> Out in Oklahoma. Works remote for a Southern California company. She's a CMO. Wicked smart. Doesn't want to be bothered with little things. So, I'm constantly anticipating. But, um and she doesn't want any problems. She doesn't want me bringing any problems to her. She wants solutions, kind of like you guys talked about earlier. >> Yeah. >> So, I bring solutions as often as I can. She's my golden egg. >> not to deviate too much. We just want to know can can we all picture Megan? Can we all think what Megan looks like? But, >> You didn't describe the important part of her. >> I know. She works for a $250 million company. >> Yeah. >> Consumer packaging goods. >> Consumer packaging Consumer packaging goods. Uh >> She's the CMO. >> Yeah. >> You're missing a really >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. >> You need to say this. >> Oh. Um I'm going to say woof probably 30 products at least. >> Yeah. >> Reoccurring. She needs a lot of attention. >> Sh- Shelf >> Okay. Just pass the mic just so we've got a bit of backwards of all taking this. >> Are they shelf or frozen or are they different types of packages? >> Primarily shelf. >> Primarily shelf. Okay, cool. So now can we all pitch in on Megan a bit more, but yeah, you good good call. >> We tend to be so I don't know what it is. If I'm going to put a label on it, there's something about why you're reluctant to talk about her. And you want to skip into like this what I do and how I saw Because you have to shake off the old habit. You really do. When we talk about the customer, we're just talking about the customer. Don't talk about you, your services, what you do, and why you're so good, okay? So when we do this again, please don't repeat that same thing. Now, what do we do Matt? >> Okay, so I want before Hector answers this, when you think about Megan, who do you think already has her trust? Who do you think Megan already trusts? >> She does trust me. >> Apart from you, Hector. You did a great job of shaking that off, man. >> She trusts her She >> [laughter] >> She trusts the buyers that she works with. >> Okay, cool. Tell me more. >> Uh she goes to them weekly and gets feedback from them and has to implement on their uh decisions. So she has to pivot based on what the market buyers tell her. >> Who else apart from the buyers? So that's that's one, right? The buyers. >> The president of the company. >> Yeah. So think think external more than internal, but yeah. >> I'm th- I'm thinking about specific people, so I'll be more specific in my question. Um who does she she or her company already buy from? >> Vendors. Many vendors that make uh boxes, pouches, containers of all sorts. >> Yeah. So buyers, and when you say buyers, just for everybody else that doesn't know this industry, what do you mean by buyers? >> People that are at big box store like Costco that's going to say, \"I'll take your product, but you got to do this, this, and that, and then I'll take it, and it's going to be at this price, and I
1need it now.\" >> Mhm. Yep, okay. So, buyers, and then what's the difference between a buyer and a vendor? >> A vendor would be a supplier of raw goods or, you know, containers. >> Yep, cool. And then within that, are there any organizations or governing bodies that these vendors and these buyers, and even maybe Megan and her company, are part of? >> I'm sure there's some organizations. I am not privy to those. >> Okay. Going to go really left wing here. You said Megan is a mom, and what were some other attributes? >> Uh she's a mom, a wife, >> Yeah. >> lives in Oklahoma. >> I wonder, >> [clears throat] >> are there any Facebook groups or communities of female CMOs or working mom CMOs on the internet? >> Must be. >> That that question is super super specific. May I just zoom out one level? We know who influences her decisions based on market suppliers, and vendors, and buyers. Who influences her opinion about the world and specifically her job? Who might influence her, and where might those influences be? Think about that, cuz that'll apply to everybody here. >> Mhm. >> Her co-workers, her boss. >> Yeah. The the reason I went specific on this is because if you have a specific avatar, and you find a specific uh group of people, >> Mhm. >> there tends to be a very high level of trust there because they feel like a tribe. So I'll just I'll jump forward a little bit, right? Imagine if you went to the owner of this Facebook group and you ask for permission to post in the group. I know y
1ou've got a lot of CMOs who are working moms, predominantly female in this group. Um I work with a lot of these people. I've I've come up with this free tool, this free assessment that I think might be valuable to some of the people. Would you be open to sharing it in your group? Right? That's kind of where I'm going with this, right? So I'm thinking of something that would look good to them that would also be valuable for the people in that group. So now I don't know this is where you come in cuz I don't know the industry well enough to know how buyers work and how vendors work and things like that. But I bet from working in this industry long enough, there's probably someone in your network who has the trust, whether they're a buyer, whether they're a vendor, or someone of someone like Megan. Like they're connected, maybe even just a small group, 10, 15, 20 Megans. Can you think of anybody in your >> Oh, there's vendors. That's how I've gotten my clients, the long-term ones. >> Okay. >> That's the only way I've gotten my clients. >> now, so most of you have this, right? Most of you have somebody who has made the majority of your introductions or who just generally speaks well about you in the network. The problem is it's our communication with them is usually very stage four. Oh hey, like are there any projects that have come up or you know, what's going on? We're basically fishing for is there any work? So we're positioned as somebody who generally kind of takes cuz that's more of a take than it is a give, and we're always positioned at stage four. So I'm trying to flip that. So they see you as a problem solver, and like Chris said, they see you as someone who is active, not passive waiting for oh when have you guys got a project? So hey, I now have a So imagine going to these people and being like, guys, I've got this tool that I think might be relevant for some Megans in your network, but also might help you because I know that when Megan has this challenge, you guys also have this challenge, because that impacts on you. Do you think this tool would be valuable for someone? And that's how Matt and Jack got all of those leads. They just went to a previous person who was in their network, who referred them work in the past, who kind of said, \"Oh, I always speak highly about you.\" And said, \"Instead of hey, have you got any work? Hey, I think there's something of value here.\" Hey, can I tell you about this thing that I'm working on? Can I tell you about some things that I've noticed in the industry? And I really want to provide a solution to this. And guess what? It's totally free. It takes less than 5 minutes. And at the end of it, they're going to get real insight into challenge, frustration, desire. Is there anyone you know who that might be valuable for? Now, imagine that you've got two or three of those people who share that for you. >> Right. Beautiful man. I can definitely see that working. >> So, I just want you to test that. I just want you to reach out to those people and say, \"I've been thinking about developing this tool, and it does this thing. Do you know anyone that would be that would be valuable for? Or, how valuable might that be for you on a scale of 1 to 10?\" >> Sure. >> And get some feedback from people, right? So, I just wanted to set the scene, high-level concept. Are we seeing how this works? Cuz it is a bit of a mindset shift, right? It's a bit of a mindset shift going from prospect to partner. And our partners aren't prospects. They're on our team. We want to impress them. We want to show them that we're active. We want to give them valuable stuff for free, but we also want to have conversations with them to figure out what's going on in their world. The same way that we would with clients, we want to try and get on calls with potential partners all the time, figure out what they're trying to achieve, and what their challenges are, because then we can see how what we've got slots into that. So, it's exactly the same as a conversation with an end client, but we're just having it with a partner. Difference is, there's nothing for them to buy. There's only free value for us to provide. >> Right. >> Is this making sense? >> Yes. >> Okay, cool. So, let's just use our brains for 5 minutes. I'd love You go. >> Chris. I I like that because that's more actionable. The people who send you work now, give them the tool first. That seems like very within your reach, low-hanging fruit. But, the reason why I asked that question of like, who influences her decisions, they're usually influencers. Every industry has people reporting, talking about it. So, find the person who's talking about and reviewing things. See if you can't get a relationship going. That's a That's a bigger ask, a bigger lift. Also, like for you specifically, maybe my reference here's out of date, but The Dieline might be a good place. >> Mhm. >> You know The Dieline? >> Yeah. >> That's uh an award excellence in consumer packaged goods. And then you can stroll that place and like, who's talking, who's writing the articles, and reach out to them specifically. That would be a good strategy. So, the people who are writing the articles and s
1o, award shows, people who are doing news and reviews, that would be good. And every every industry has a trade association. Find out that thing cuz you don't know enough yet cuz this is a new Hector. The old Hector was just a different Hector waiting for work to come. This is Hector goes upstream to see work where the problem is. >> Cool. >> Make sense? >> Beautiful. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> So, I'm going to get you guys to do a little exercise in a minute, but Chris just used a really important term that I've actually written down here in the workbook, which is low-hanging fruit. And so, I want us to start there because I almost guarantee Chris said, \"Don't say anything that you don't know is 100% true in this room.\" So, I can't say this with absolute certainty, but I have a high percentage of certainty that there is somebody in your network right now that you already have a relationship with that has the trust and attention of your ideal client. Okay? And that's what I would term as your low-hanging fruit. So, what Chris just said is 100% right. And the way I think about potential partners is the same way I think about celebrities. There's an A-list, there's a B-list, and there's a C-list. And the C-list are the people that we already have relationships with. They're on our level. If we said, \"Hey, do you want to jump on a quick call?\" they probably would right? The A-list, if you send them a message and say, \"Hey, do you want to jump on a quick call?\" they probably get hundreds of those messages every day. If they don't know you, the chance of them jumping on a quick call is pretty low. So, we've actually got different approaches depending on whether they're A, B, or C. And so, in the workbook and uh I've got a lowest hanging fruit exercise. Um and I've also got this partner finder GPT, um which will make some suggestions. But I've also got um some suggestions, the partner pitch GPT, and the partner response document will show you that there are basically different approaches. So, for your C-list, you can literally This is what's worked really well for our clients is that low hanging fruit. They literally just reach out to them and they say this, \"Hey, I noticed that you also serve this kind of client and there's no competitive overlap. You guys run a branding studio, we run an animation studio, or you guys run a PR firm, we run a branding studio. Would you be open to jumping on a very quick 15-minute call and working out if there's any way that we could collaborate?\" And that's it. That's the message. And that gets between a 50 and 80% response rate. Hey, you also serve these people, there's no competitive overlap, would you be open to seeing if there's a way that we can collaborate? That simple. But the caveat is you have to be connected to them or know them in some way. You That That doesn't work for your A-list people. Okay? Your B-list people have a specific framework called the R Carver framework, which I won't go into cuz it's all there. If we have time, I can talk through it. >> Did you say the same word you said before? >> Oh, sorry. >> R Carver >> R Carver is an acronym. It stands for reason, compliment, anchor, value, and ask. I know I'm Yeah, so this we're on page 14 at the moment. >> a question. >> Okay, just before I come to you, 2 secs. And then the the A-list has a totally different approach. So I just The reason this is important is cuz I don't want you going to the awards people who have no idea who you are and be like, \"Hey guys, I think we could collaborate.\" And you know, they've got 2 million subscribers on YouTube or whatever. You're probably not going to get a response and then you're going to go, \"Ah, this strategy doesn't work.\" So start with the low-hanging fruit. Start with the people you know, and see if you can just book some calls. So when we work when we run through this with our clients, the objective is can you get two or three partner calls? And can you just have a conversation with someone about potentially collaborating? That's a win, right? That's like you've shifted your thinking, you're getting people on calls, you're seeing how you can collaborate, and then you basically just work your way up the chain. Once you have a few C-list partners, you then think, \"Oh, cool. How can I get some B-list partners?\" Once you have some B-list partners, then you think about A-list. And it kind of works. So this Once you've got C-list, sometimes the C-list c
1an introduce you to the B-list. And you just kind of work your way up the the pyramid. Right. >> You actually answered my question. So you good. >> Cool. So what I'd love you to do quickly is don't do this together, guys, cuz you work in the same business. So we've got two and two here. Just tell the other person who your ideal client is, and your job together is to kind of brainstorm who might already have their attention. Just like we just did here. Let's test what you guys came up with. So we created a GPT, and you got two options. You can just literally upload the client avatar form into there and ask it to give you some suggestions, or you can copy and paste it in. I'd just be curious if you guys do this, if it gives you ideas, if it's the same things that you've been discussing, or if it gives you totally new ideas. So, upload the the client avatar form. >> Uh what page? >> Page number 13. Lucky number 13. And click partner finder GPT. And it should open up something like this. And then you're just going to click help me find partners. And it will ask you to either upload the avatar form you filled out or just copy and paste it in. >> We are targeting healthcare as an ICP. Um so, we filled out the client avatar form. I uploaded it. It's saying that the best fit partner categories would be grant writers and fundraising consultants, public affairs and government relations consultants, and then strategic planning consultants for nonprofits and public agencies. >> Okay. How do you feel about those suggestions? >> I feel pretty good about that. I mean, the public affairs consultants, I feel really good about the grant writers and fundraising consultants. I feel like we'd have to talk about how to break into that. >> Yeah. So, out of those, do you know anyone who meets any of those criteria? >> The public affairs, yes. The grant writers, not me personally. >> No, but yeah, start with that, right? That's your low-hanging fruit. >> Right. >> So, that's what we're looking for right now. Like, your job right now is to connect with some of those people and see if you can get them on a quick 10-15 minute collaboration call. And so, that kind of leads us to the next part, which I'll get into in a minute. But that's a great example. Yeah. Awesome. >> Is that a great example? >> Yes. >> Cuz that's what you're waiting for. >> Yes, exactly. That's >> Yeah. >> Yes, exactly. That's the answer that I was looking for. >> Okay. Perfect. Chris is like dubious. >> What's that? >> I feel like you're dubious. >> Dubious? >> Yeah. >> Like doubtful, suspicious? >> Yeah. >> Like unclear of the actual outcome? >> Yeah. >> Because she had said prior that this is what she was waiting for. >> So, this is just >> Confirmation. >> with the customer. >> Yeah. >> Did you get what you came for? And if you didn't, we got to keep doing our work. >> Represent. >> These guys >> These these guys are like see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil over here. >> Yeah, [laughter] come on guys. >> Represent. Who's got it? Raise your hand. Make a motion. Twitch, you are you ready? Right? >> Put ideal client and I put Sarah CMO at a $50 million fashion company. >> Yep. >> Partner? >> Yeah, what it is suggest? >> Oh, you know, I'm going to just read off the partner side. >> Yeah. Potentially collaborate with. >> What? >> Just read out the partners and then out of those are there any that you think you might be able to start a conversation? >> So, the first one that it says for your partner types is paid media agency serving fashion brands. >> Yeah. That makes sense, right? >> Makes sense. I don't know why I didn't think about that. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Um e-commerce Shopify agencies. Email SMS marketing agencies. For me would be the paid media agencies. >> Yeah, and you work in an agency, right? >> Correct. >> So, if one agency reaches out to another agency, you're kind of a similar level. Hey guys, notice that you do you would do work for fashion brands, but you guys focus on paid media, we focus more on brand. Do you want to hop on a quick 15-minute call just to see if there's any way we might be able to collaborate? >> Yeah. >> Seems like a pretty low friction >> It does. >> process, right? >> Almost too simple. >> Yeah, almost too simple. Yeah. >> Right. I guess I'm used to just like having to like I don't know, playing tooth and nail with people. Which seems really simple. And easy. >> Sweet. That's how we want it to feel. >> Um my ideal partner types are brand strategy agencies, shopper marketing agencies, which I've never dealt with one of those, packaging manufacturers and converters. That sounds really spot-on. Fractional CMOs, food and beverage brokers. >> Sweet. Any of those feel like low-hanging fruit? So, people that you already know in your network? >> Yeah, for sure. >> Awesome. >> Yeah. Primarily, the packaging manufacturers and converters, they have access to everything that's been printed. And a handful. >> Perfect. Handful is great. Handful is all we need. Remember, one partner, let's say equals roughly 10 potential clients. >>
1 Yeah. >> So, with three partners, you've already got 30 potential clients there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Want to add anything? >> Uh okay, so I focus my I my ICP on that um CEO founder, 20 million to 200 million, um either CPG or RTD drink says consumer packaged goods or ready-to-drink. And um they give me a bunch here, but the one that I'm actually most excited about, who I've been thinking about focusing on, is private equity and um M&A advisors, those kind of guys who have portfolios of companies and they all run with with the kind of the same kind of guys and they need fast fixers. And that's like, you know, I've got a handful of folks like that in my network and I feel like that that's it's a small group of people who know a lot of people in that group who need help and they need like pros to come in and like work fast. >> Yeah. So, one of my examples was Izzy, who's a brand strategist, and he partners with VCs who have big portfolios of startups. And he just gets introduced like they he is now the go-to person. Every every startup that they work with, they well, he has to qualify them first, but the VC kind of automatically qualifies them by backing them, and they all get a free constant brand strategy consultation with Izzy as part of the ongoing >> That's exactly what I would like to focus on. Yeah. A handful. I mean, I haven't I haven't really turned the screws on it yet. Um I've I've actually seen other brand strategists who who who who focus who either embedded in a VC company, who they service their internal portfolio, or they're um you know, they're a consultant. >> It's hard to find something when you're not looking for it. And we tend to find the things we look for. You look for trouble, you find trouble. >> Are you looking for trouble? >> Never. I only look for money. So, Chris, here's the cool What's that? Shut up. You want to You want to get in on this? Don't start a fight you can't finish Drigo. You know, that's right. Better walk away. Hold me back. All right. Chris, here's the cool part. You had some suspicions this might be somebody you want to talk to. The assessment or the AI thing just told you the same thing. So, now it gives you a little bit more ammunition. If you don't already know them, because I I sense some wavering in your answer like I think I might know, but I don't like There's not three people I can call right now, right? You know some? But, the cool part is let's pretend like you don't, and that's low-hanging fruit, ish. Your mind will start working on it like, \"Wait a minute. That other person I met at that party, they said something I wasn't even interested in them, and now it's like, oh, I need to talk to them right now.\" That's how that works, right? >> Yeah. I can't >> I can't stress the power of that more, because A, if you're like the girls over here that have very broad targets, it's already a struggle to find your ideal client, because your brain, a part of your brain called the reticular activating system, that's always looking for things that it believes are relevant to you, doesn't pick up on it, because who's relevant? B2B service. Okay, who do you Who do you know who's good B2B service? No one. We know Megan who's 36, and right, so how do we get introduced to Megan? So your brain is not looking for it. So that's the first part. So you just even by honing in on your ideal client, your brain is going to basically meet people that you didn't meet before and you'll be like, why am I all of a sudden meeting all these people? Well, cuz you weren't looking for them before, right? We've all had that experience when we buy an item of clothing and then all of a sudden we see other people wearing it. Not Chris cuz all of his clothes are so unique, but for the rest of us peasants, right? We we see that item of clothing everywhere. Or we buy a car and then all of a sudden we see that car everywhere. That's just your brain noticing what was already there. So that's kind of part one, but part two is you probably weren't thinking about partners. You were thinking about clients. So all of those people you might have ignored connection requests from on LinkedIn or not spoken to at the networking event. Now all of a sudden you're like, hold on. I didn't make this connection before. This person could actually be really useful to me because they may have the attention and the trust of my ideal clients. All right. So perhaps before today y
1ou came to the thing to the workshop, you're like, I'm not sure my who my ideal client profile is. I don't even know who I'm going to reach out to. I don't have a plan or I'm doing all that I can. There's nothing else I can do or the narrative is all this is a friction-filled process. The whole process makes me feel icky about myself. And now without a lot of effort, you found somebody potentially that is a win-win. That's a Well, as the slide said, it's a win for you. It's a win for them. You're serving the same clients. No competition. And then when you eventually get these people on the phone, there's not even a sale. I'm just going to tell you what the report says and if you have any questions, I'm more than happy to answer them. Is this all doable? Yeah? Okay, how do you feel right now? Great. I have a time share I need to sell you. Okay, so I want to land the plane on this, right? But there's there's kind of two other things, two places where people fall down. Your main focus when you leave this room is can I book calls with my low-hanging fruit. That's what you want to focus on, right? When you book those calls, you're just going to ask them three questions. Number one, tell me a little bit more about you and your business. Now, hopefully you're all smart people, so you might go and do a little bit of research before that call. So, an even better way to start that conversation is, here's what I know about your business, what have I missed? Or what else is relevant, okay? So, where are they right now? Tell me a bit more about your business. So, this is what I know about you. Cool. What's going on with your business right now? What are you trying to achieve? What goals do you have, right? Now, remember this is not a sales call. This is a partnership call, but you can't create a win-win offer unless you know what's important to that person. If you just go in with your agenda and your thing and you try and force this assessment down their throat, it's going to feel salesy. So, I'll give you an example. When I've when I created my first partnership with Laura in the co-working space all those many moons ago, I didn't just go in and say, \"Hey Laura, um I need some clients. You guys have my ideal clients. Can I do a workshop for you?\" Would have felt a little bit salesy, right? I just said, \"Look, I I love all you're doing here. Um I think there might be an opportunity for us to collaborate, but can we have a conversation about it?\" And for the first 10-15 minutes, I just listened to Laura. So, what's going on with the co-working space right now? Oh, it's great. We have these things and So, you know, what are you trying to achieve? I'd love to build a more sense of community. You know, I really feel like our freelancers and our hot desking people, they're great, but there's no real cohesion. And also, it's a really high turnover. As soon as things get tough for them, the co-working membership is one of the first things to go. Right? So, these are some of the things she started talking about. So, when I pitched the workshop, I didn't say, \"Cool, I need some clients, so why don't I come in and run a workshop?\" I said, \"What about if we put on an event together where we brought people together?\" So, we did a lunch and learn, and we created this event, and I taught people how to attract better clients. So, that instead of them canceling their membership, they actually had more clients so that they could pay you for longer. How would that be? >> She'd be like, >> That's amazing. Cool. All I need from you is the space, and I just need you to promote this workshop to everybody in the co-working space. Can you do that? >> She's like, yeah. I'll send an email out next week. >> Perfect. And I'll bring all of my material. I'll, you know, contribute where I can, and I'll even share this outside of the co-working space to my network to try and maybe get a few more bums on seats and to get them a few more people into this space who might be interested in signing up to the co-working. How does that sound? And I literally used that strategy with co-working space
1s as my only partnership to grow my first That was my first six-figure year. And I worked with WeWork, I worked with General Assembly, I worked with small independent co-working spaces, and the pitch was always exactly the same. Would you like some more freelancers in your space? Would you like there to be a more sense of community, and would you like them to know how to get more clients so that they could keep paying you? And guess what? People were like, hell yeah. And it's all free. You don't need to do anything. You just need to provide me the space, and you need to send a few emails out. And hey, look, these are the kind of emails that people have sent out in the past. They work really well. We'll write them all for you, and you just hit send. So, you see how I'm not selling anything. I'm trying to find a way to collaborate, but I can't do that until I know what they're trying to achieve and what's important to them. So, you're going to book calls, and I've also got links to structures of how you structure this call in the workbook, but you're going to book calls, and you're just going to figure out what's important to them. What are they struggling with right now? I'm pretty sure that that scorecard, that assessment that you've created, will fit in somewhere to their goals, because if it's valuable for your end clients, your ideal clients, who are also their ideal clients, then by default, it's probably going to be valuable to them. Not 10 out of 10 times, but eight or nine out of 10 times. And so then when you present that assessment at the end of that conversation, that feels like a real natural give rather than hey guys, by the way, I've got this cool thing. Can you promote it to your audience for me? It's making sense? Questions thoughts comments? >> Were you able to land your own personal clients from this? >> Yeah. >> That's how I got my first six-figure year. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. That is the concept of the win-win offer. I've got some scripts and some things like that, but that's the kind of second-to-last piece that I want to talk about. And then the final piece is kind of boring but important, and it's a little bit like having contracts with your clients, okay? So this is a bit of a tightrope, and I can't give you specific advice on this because I don't know your specific situation, but it's always best to have as much of an agreement as possible, so there are no unspoken expectations. Now, I don't mean a contract that your partner signs. I mean that when I had that conversation with Laura, it was like, cool. So just to get this straight, and this could just be in an email, I'm going to do this. I'm going to bring my best content, my best ideas. I'm going to run this workshop for free. I'm going to post it out to my community, blah blah blah blah, and you're going to do this. You're going to send an email to your database. This is what you're going to say in it. We're going to hold the event on this specific date. We're going to have 30 tickets. And we've got that agreement in place. Does that sound good? Are you happy with that? Because what happens for a lot of times is people agree to something like, oh yeah, I'll share this for you. And you go, cool, great, thanks. And that's the end of the conversation. And then nothing really happens. Thanks so much for offering to share it. What would be the best way to share this? Do you want to share it with your email list? Do you want to share it on LinkedIn? Is there someone specific you want to send it to? How are you going to share it? I've got some ideas of some emails or some ways that you could share this. Are you open to me writing some stuff for you? You know, you really want a specific agreement in place that we're going to do this, and you guys are going to do this. Now, when it comes to delivery partnerships, obviously this is even more important because you're actually getting paid for the work. But what I would encourage you guys to do with your delivery partnerships is think about how this assessment could be valuable for the people you already deliver work to, but it could sit at the top of the funnel. And what I mean by that is it's actually just a standalone asset that's valuable for them that they could use. Right? So they could actually just give that to their ideal clients as a standalone value piece, and you guys just get the data on the back end. So that for me, if I was thinking about you guys, that would be the lowest lowest hanging fruit. It's like well we're already partnering with these people, but we're just delivering work. So that's a very kind of transactional relationship. Versus, hey do you know
1what? We've been having quite a few conversations or we've been thinking about this thing. We've developed this tool which I think is really useful for your end client. Would you be open to sharing it with them? So this is the final part, establishing agreement. And again, we've got our agreement creator GPT that even does it for you and we've got some templates here. I'm not going to sit here and go through this now and I know it sounds like maybe I've been copping out of that a little bit, but I want to use this workshop as the kind of high-level principles because if you don't understand the core principles and you don't get that penny drop and you don't have that kind of mindset shift, then all of the logistical, tactical, strategic stuff isn't really going to make sense. But this workbook is here. You can go away and you can go through these steps these kind of micro pieces on your own anytime. And there's a lot of thought and time and energy we put into these GPTs to really refine them. So you should just be able to say, here's a conversation I have with the partner, drop it into the agreement GPT and it will write you a draft agreement for this particular partner. That's pretty much the end of this, right? So I'd love to use the last 10, maybe 15 minutes depending on how much patience is everybody has got for a bit of Q&A. But first of all, I guess I would love to just hear like what has been your biggest insight or takeaway from this session and I'd love to hear just one thing from everybody. >> I'll give you some time to think. Matt, if people are watching this whenever they're watching this video, they're probably going to be wondering, \"Do we get the workbook?\" >> Yep. >> So, the workbook will be in the description and link below. You can check that out. It's all the prompts, AI stuff. You can just follow along at your own pace. That's it. All right, who's got a an answer? >> Yeah, let's just go from left from right. Like, biggest insight or takeaway. >> Uh I guess my biggest insight was just the partnership side of things. It's something that, you know, we've been subcontracted before. We have partner agencies, but thinking outside of that and how many other partnerships we could have with other people, with branding people, with with PR, with grant writers, like all of that. It's um something that I've never really thought of and I'd like to start experimenting in. >> How many partnerships do you think you would need in order to double the revenue of your business? >> Mhm. I guess it I mean, it depends on how big those partners are, but um I don't want to say four at a minimum, maybe. Do you have a Is this on right? >> Yeah. >> Probably four. I mean, we do have like referrals still coming in. We still get um a lot We do have a lot of clients that come back for revamps every so often and it's like I feel like we have a solid pipe as of right now, but um >> Even more reason to do it, right? >> Right, right, right. >> Solid pipeline right now. So, >> experienced that. We actually went it down and we were kind of panicking and then we have a few projects to work on now. We're really busy. We are a small team, but it doesn't We do need to be putting that effort into our own agency and excelling on our side. So, um yeah, the partnerships. Do you have something? >> Uh I I was just going to say we we've been so reliant on agency partners that we thought that would be like um you know, that's just we consistent, but it just in the last year it has changed. So, and that's why we're looking for other avenues and actually making a a system. So, what like this process is like a system that we can follow. And so, I think that's the insight you know, that take from here is having a system to do that. >> Yeah, and I'd love to see cuz there's there's a couple of mindset shifts that I really want you to pick up on. The first is the downstream thing, right? So, what I just heard was you've got a bunch of partners, but that work kind of dries up. But, it also sounds like they were partners where you only really engage with them when a new project came in. Would that be fair? Right? So, I really want you to get this idea of repositioning how those people see you cuz right now they don't see you as a partner, they see you as a worker. Hey, this is an extension of our business overflow when we're super busy, you guys get the work. I want you to come upstream and start building tools and start building things that are valuable for the people that they serve. So, all of a sudden, you're relevant to the things that are going on day-to-day in their business, not just relevant when they don't have enough capacity internally and they need someone to outsource it to. Does that make sense? Cuz if you can make that shift, I think even the partners you've already got would probably get back to a level where it would sustain you. >> Uh I think, you know, that's a very true statement because the partner is thinking of us as oh, they didn't know they did not know that we have the strategy piece that and that we were just executing. So, so that's a big shift to to show the them, you know, what we we got to offer. >>
1 Yeah, 100%. Thank you. >> I I'd echo that. I think the partnership is a really great reframing of um the referral. You know, that your network not not just seeing them as like a one-and-done referral, but actually leveraging them as as partners. Um I've heard Hermosi do something similar where you reach out and you say, \"Hey, can you give me two You're You're not going to sell the person you reach out to. Do you have two people you could recommend me to?\" It's kind of a similar >> Yeah. >> analogy. >> But even that Sorry to interrupt your insight, but even that, the mindset shift is that's an ask. \"Have you got two people you can recommend me to? What am I getting from that?\" I want you guys to be a give. \"Hey, I've got this thing that I think is really valuable for you and the people that you serve.\" So, the more you can be seen giving, the more people will think of you as a genuine partner who they want to speak to, not just, \"Oh, Chris is calling again. He probably wants more work.\" It's like, \"Chris is calling again. I wonder what cool tool he's just invented that's going to be amazing that I want to share with everybody.\" >> And I would say the um score app, I'm just really glad to see that as a tool and take Thank you for taking us through it because it's um It was It looked like a quiz before, but it's a pretty powerful tool the way you've positioned it. And thanks. Awesome day. Appreciate it. >> Amazing. So, I think we're still getting hung up on constantly looking for clients. It's always the same thing. We're hungry, we need food. We're hungry, we need food. And to elevate it cuz when you guys talked about partners, I'm like, \"What do you mean you only four partners and then it might work?\" The way that Matt's talking about four partners is more than an app because they keep referring you to new people and they want to collaborate so that it's a win-win. The problem with the way we keep thinking about a relationship is what do I get? We don't even ask what do they want? So, in the in the the case when Matt talked about with WeWork, WeWork needs warm bodies in a room. That's how their business model works. And some of those people might walk around like, \"This is pretty cool. I need a space here.\" So, Matt's like, \"I got got perfect solution for you. If I'm making an assumption about your business, is your business depends on having creative professionals in this room. Well, I've got something that would bring them here. And you don't have to pay me. I'll do all the work. That's a give. There's a secret ask inside of that, but it's mostly a give. At least on the surface right? You all understand that? So, when you're doing that then they're sitting up at night thinking how do we get you all back in so that we can do this again and again and again. That's why he's like, \"After this workshop, you're going to learn how to generate infinite leads.\" You have to think of it like that. It's a fundamental shift in your thinking. If you don't think like that, it this will work for a little bit and then it's going to taper off. Does everybody understand that? The difference is like, \"How do I make it a win for them?\" Blair calls it the double thank you. Where you thank them for including you in their event, and they thank you for helping them to achieve a certain result. Asking for how many people do you know might might need my work my help. That's just you asking. That's it. It's not a win for them. >> Yeah. Like he mentioned I like having like the tool it makes me like being able to like think outside of I think the thing you're I don't remember the exact term, but just kind of almost going like on auto
1pilot and not thinking What was it? I I wrote it down. >> The default mode network. >> There we go. Yeah, yeah. So, this is helpful to get out of that type of thinking. >> Thanks, dude. Hey, to the connector. >> Yes, sir. Um I guess discovering new partner types that I hadn't really thought about and where my low-hanging fruit is and you know, I don't spend enough time There's so much noise in my day-to-day where lots of noise. If I can sit down and with these tools which are freaking amazing, um I can hone in and take care of low-hanging fruit, and all I need is a couple of nice pieces of, you know, clientele, and things will be running smoothly. And I can continue to do this and continue to build. So, uh yeah. >> Signal versus noise, right? So, how how are you going to determine the signal from the noise? What are you going to do? What's the mindset shift that you've made that you're going to walk out here with today that's going to >> It's not about me, it's about them. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to shake it off, baby. >> Yeah. And also don't forget what we talked about right at the beginning, right? You are going to sit down every day, and you are going to forget the noise. You're just going to focus on can I connect to the one or two new partners today? >> Yeah. >> And if you do that every day for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, within 90 days, I promise you you'll have a totally different business. >> Yeah. I kind of set aside 30 minutes on Sunday at uh before Monday comes, so that I already know what the plan is, and I typically >> Yeah, and then >> But would you do client work on a Sunday? >> No. >> So, why are you doing your number one client? Why are you doing that on a Sunday? >> I'm just teeing up Monday, so I think about >> I agree. I like planning my week on Sunday, but that's different from dedicating that time every day or week to this particular thing where we're finding partners, where we're doing the business development side of things. They're two separate activities, at least in my mind. >> Oh, for sure. I'm just saying I already have It's not on the regular, but it'll have to be on the regular now. I have to be committed. I'm 100%. >> Nice. >> I'd like to be 112%, but we only have 100%. >> Okay. >> Also, FYI. >> So, you have been watching a masterclass to generate an infinite amount of leads for your creative agency. There were three key things that we did in this training that you need to get right. The first one is getting really clear on exactly who your ideal client is, and what what pain points and frustrations are in their language, not your language. We then built an irresistible offer, a scorecard assessment tool that identifies some of these challenges, some of these pain points, and diagnoses what the problems are in that business. And then we looked at our low-hanging fruit, which is the people in our network that already have the trust and the attention of our ideal clients. So, your job now is to go away and reach out to two or three of those people and start forming some meaningful partnerships. Partnerships are the key to growing your business consistently and generating leads. And just remember, somebody woke up today with the trust and the attention of your ideal clients. >> That's a good summary. Hey, if you've made it all the way to the end of this video, it means something. This was super valuable for you. So, we're not going to tell you what you just watched because you made it to the very end. Now, we know this, less than 20% of you who actually watch something like this will subscribe to the channel. So, go ahead and reward yourself with a nice fat thumbs-up. Make sure you make a comment and subscribe so that you don't miss any future episodes just like this. And if you enjoyed this, you've probably going to download the resources. Give Matt Essam a follow on LinkedIn. It's Matt Essam, E S S A M. >> Got it. >> And that's it, right? >> That's it. >> That's it. Thanks very much. See you guys next time. >> [music] [music]",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOZkAqR_2lA",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/dOZkAqR_2lA",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dOZkAqR_2lA/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:8770,duration_display:"2h 26m",view_count:53074,published_at:"2026-06-24T15:25:11+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Unlimited Leads Without Ads | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do and guest Matt explain how to get unlimited leads without ads or outreach. Learn to use strategic partnerships to build trust and attract clients.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-06-25T06:00:06.898086+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:03.710392+00:00",faq:$R[58]=[],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:29685,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"unlimited leads",secondary_keywords:$R[59]=["lead generation strategy","business partnerships","get more clients","the trust grid"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[60]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null}
1,$R[61]={id:"1ede636e-5606-42c2-9430-44e9c7f7524a",video_id:"k520NhbFhIE",title:"The Marketing Psychology Behind Smart Brands",slug:"marketing-psychology-create-new-markets",topic_tag:"MARKETING",secondary_tags:$R[62]=["BRAND STRATEGY","POSITIONING","SALES"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do explains the psychology of smart marketing: stop competing and start creating new categories of customers for your product or service.",pull_quote:"You want to sell art. That's the problem.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[63]=[$R[64]={headline:"Sell the 'Why,' Not the 'What.'",explanation:"Customers don't buy products; they buy what those products mean for their identity. Focus on the core emotional driver like privacy or belonging, not features."},$R[65]={headline:"Create New Markets, Don't Compete.",explanation:"Instead of fighting for scraps in a crowded market, find a new use case or a new type of customer for what you already do. This is the essence of Blue Ocean Strategy."},$R[66]={headline:"Meritocracy is a Myth.",explanation:"Being the best at your craft is not enough to guarantee success. People hire who they know, like, and trust, which makes marketing and sales non-negotiable skills."},$R[67]={headline:"Use Real Scarcity, Not False Scarcity.",explanation:"Ethical marketing uses genuine constraints, like your limited capacity to take on clients, to create urgency. Fabricating scarcity is a dishonest, short-term tactic."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>Stop Selling The Obvious\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>What people buy is almost never what they pay for. A customer purchases a pair of shoes, but they pay for a sense of belonging. They buy a luxury car, but they pay for status and accomplishment. They buy a phone, but what if they were really paying for privacy?\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>In an early episode of \x3Cem>Better Call Saul\x3C/em>, fledgling lawyer Jimmy McGill struggles to sell burner phones. His breakthrough comes not from lowering the price or highlighting features, but from inventing a new customer. He discovers a niche market of people deeply concerned that \x3Cem>âthe man is listening.â\x3C/em> Jimmy isn't selling a phone. Heâs selling privacy. Heâs selling an identity.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This insight, as The Futurâs founder Chris Do explains, embodies a powerful marketing principle famously articulated by Simon Sinek: Start with Why. \x3Cem>âWhat people buy isn't what they pay for necessarily,â\x3C/em> Do says. The transaction is for a product, but the purchase is for a feeling, an identity, or a solution to a deeper, often unstated, problem.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For creative professionals, this distinction is critical. Most designers, videographers, and photographers get it wrong. They fall into the trap of selling the âwhat.â They sell higher resolution, better lenses, and cinematic quality. They sell art.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Their clients, however, are not buying art.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThey want their phone to ring,â\x3C/em> Do states. \x3Cem>âThey want to pay as little to buy that opportunity as possible and you want to sell art. That's the problem.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This fundamental conflict between what creatives sell and what clients buy is the source of endless frustration, low prices, and client churn. To escape it, you must stop competing on features and start competing on meaning. You must learn to create a new customer.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Blue Ocean Imperative\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Many creatives hear this and immediately dismiss it as slimy, dishonest, or scummy. They see it as a mandate to manipulate. But this reaction misses the forest for the trees. This isn't about deception; it's about strategy. Itâs about a concept the legendary management consultant Peter Drucker identified as a core purpose of business: to create a customer.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>And the most powerful way to create a customer is to go where no one else is. This is the core idea behind \x3Cstrong>Blue Ocean Strategy\x3C/strong>, a concept popularized by W. Chan Kim and Renée Mauborgne. Instead of fighting in a âred oceanâ saturated with competitors, you move your boat to a new, uncontested âblue oceanâ where a fresh pocket of fish awaits.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do points to a classic business case study, one detailed by the late Harvard professor Clayton Christensen in his book \x3Cem>The Innovator's Dilemma\x3C/em>: Hondaâs entry into the American motorcycle market.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>In the 1960s, the American motorcycle scene was dominated by one brand: Harley-Davidson. Their bikes were loud, heavy, powerful, and expensive. They were built for the open road. Hondaâs motorcycles were the opposite.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>They were small, light, and agile.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>They were underpowered by American standards.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>They were designed for the narrow, slower roads of Japan, not American freeways.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>The Honda executives spearheading the American launch were failing. They set up shop and tried to compete head-on with Harley-Davidson, but their product was seen as inferior. Sales were abysmal. The project was on the brink of collapse.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>To blow off steam on weekends, the stressed executives took their small Honda bikes off-roading into the California hills. The bikes, ill-suited for the freeway, were perfect for dirt trails. They were nimble and fun. People started to notice. \x3Cem>âHey, what are those?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Almost by accident, a new market was born. Honda had stumbled upon a new use case for their product that no one had considered. They were not selling a cheaper, weaker alternative to a Harley. They were selling a âdirt bike,â a vehicle for off-road recreation.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>They created a new category. They found their blue ocean.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThey created a new lane, a new use case,â\x3C/em> Do explains. \x3Cem>âAnd almost by accident, they found a new use for the motorcycle that no one else had paid attention to. They moved into a lane that had no competition.â\x3C/em> This wasn't about lying about their product. It was about reframing its purpose for a new audience with a different problem.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>A Playbook for Category Creation\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Creating a new customer is not easy. It is not an idea that strikes you while you roll out of bed. \x3Cem>âThis requires radical thinking,â\x3C/em> Do warns. \x3Cem>âThis is why it's not so easy to create a new customer. But if you can⦠that's where you make a lot of money. That's where you own and define categories.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Once you see the pattern, it becomes obvious. Smart brands do this constantly, often by applying a simple framework known as \x3Cstrong>PAS: Problem, Agitate, Solution\x3C/strong>. The key, however, is to apply this framework to a new type of customer, not the one everyone else is targeting.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>If your sales pitch starts with \x3Cem>âDoes your video sales letter suck butt?â\x3C/em> you are talking to the same audience as every other videographer. The radical thinking happens when you first identify a new customer who doesn't even know they need your solution yet.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Consider the story of Method soap. Co-founders Adam Lowry and Eric Ryan, a chemist and a marketing guy, were looking for a household category ripe for reinvention. They landed on hand soap. The problem wasnât the soap itself; it was the packaging. The market was dominated by Dial, whose bottles were so aesthetically unpleasing that people would hide them under the sink when guests came over.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The insight was simple: what if people were proud to display their hand soap? They pooled their money and hired famed industrial designer Karim Rashid, who, as the story goes, had just enough budget to design one idea. He created the iconic, teardrop-shaped bottle.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Method created a new category: soap for people who care about interior design. They also used more natural ingredients, but the primary driver was aesthetics. \x3Cem>âIf they put [the same eco-friendly soap] in the exact same packaging and the same aesthetic [as Dial], I guarantee you it will fail,â\x3C/em> Do asserts. They created a new customer by solving a problem the old market leaders ignored.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This pattern repeats across industries.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Dude Wipes:\x3C/strong> They took baby wipes, a product for parents, and repackaged them for men. The product is fundamentally the same, but the branding, the name, and the black packaging created a new market of men who wanted a fresher feeling but wouldn't be caught dead buying a product meant for infants.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Liquid Death:\x3C/strong> The founder, Mike Cessario, saw two trends: people were drinking less alcohol, and soda sales were declining. He identified a niche of people, perhaps from the punk rock or straight-edge scenes, who were health-conscious but rejected the bland, wholesome branding of traditional bottled water. They created canned water with the tagline \x3Cem>âMurder Your Thirstâ\x3C/em> and heavy-metal-inspired art. They sell water in a tallboy can, giving it the taboo feel of beer with none of the hangover.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>In each case, the innovation was not necessarily the product itself. The genius was in identifying a new customer with a new problem and creating a brand that spoke directly to their identity. \x3Cem>
1âWe didn't know we needed this until you told us we need this and you've solved that problem,â\x3C/em> Do explains. That is category creation.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Videographerâs Blue Ocean\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>So how does a creative, like a freelance videographer, apply this? Most videographers get into the business aspiring to be filmmakers. \x3Cem>âThey want to work on the most cinematic, most beautiful thing,â\x3C/em> Do says. The reality is settling for corporate announcement videos and video sales letters for clients who don't care about their artistic vision.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The red ocean is trying to convince a small business owner to pay more for higher âqualityâ they can't see and don't value. They just want the phone to ring.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The blue ocean requires asking a different question: \x3Cem>âWho in this world would pay the most amount of money for videos and I have a steady constant supply of customers for?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The answer isn't Hollywood. Itâs a new and emerging market: established experts and entrepreneurs who are not trying to make more money, but are trying to build authority. These are authors, consultants, and founders making millions who want to become the most influential person in their space. For them, video is the fastest path to thought leadership.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>People like Alex Hormozi, Dan Martell, and Simon Sinek are spending tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on their video content teams. They want to build influence, not just generate leads. They understand the power of video to connect with an audience on multiple sensory levels and require the lowest cognitive lift from the consumer. Building a personal brand is a far more sophisticated challenge than just making a sale, a topic Do explores in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-build-a-million-dollar-personal-brand\">How To Build A $1,000,000 Personal Brand\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is a completely different customer. They are not price-sensitive in the same way a small business is. They are value-sensitive. They are not buying a video; they are buying influence, authority, and legacy. A videographer who positions themselves as an expert in building authority for high-level entrepreneurs is no longer competing with the kid who just bought a DSLR. They have created their own category.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The âCon Manâ Objection\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>At this point, the critics cry foul. \x3Cem>âThis is everything I hate about the marketing industry,â\x3C/em> one comment reads. \x3Cem>âCreate false demand, creating fake scarcity, leveraging people's insecurities, misrepresenting your product.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Doâs response is direct: \x3Cem>âYou live in a fantasy world.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>While predatory marketing practices exist, the fundamental principles are woven into the fabric of human society. Humans are, at their core, meaning-making machines. The things we buy, the parties we vote for, and the beliefs we hold are all part of a story we tell ourselves about who we are. \x3Cem>âIf I buy this, who am I? Who do I become?â\x3C/em> Do asks.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>To deny this is to deny reality. Every major brand you admire participates in this storytelling.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Porsche\x3C/strong> doesn't just sell engineering; it sells the promise of success and attraction.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>De Beers\x3C/strong> created the modern engagement ring market with a brilliant marketing campaign that equated the size of a diamond with a man's worth and the permanence of love, with slogans like \x3Cem>âA Diamond is Forever.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Religion\x3C/strong> itself, Do argues, can be viewed as a large-scale marketing campaign designed to save your soul, with each one claiming to be the one true path.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThese are all marketing things and it's tribalism,â\x3C/em> Do says. \x3Cem>âIf I believe this, if I say these words, if I wear these things⦠I belong to a certain tribe of people.â\x3C/em> Unless you live in a white room wearing unbranded clothes, you are a willing participant. \x3Cem>
1âYou're all complicit in the lie because it's part of your identity.â\x3C/em> For a deeper dive, he recommends Seth Godin's book \x3Cem>All Marketers Are Liars\x3C/em>, which argues that great marketers don't sell products, they tell stories that people choose to believe.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The word âcon manâ itself is a clue. Itâs short for âconfidence man.â Their crime isnât the principle of building confidence, but the use of lies to achieve it. The same principles, when applied honestly and ethically, are the foundation of all great businesses. Understanding the psychology of why people buy is not inherently evil, but a prerequisite for success, an idea further explored in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/why-people-buy-sales-psychology-guide\">Why People Buy\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Science of Influence\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>The principles at play are not mystical corporate secrets. They are well-documented psychological triggers that govern human behavior. Dr. Robert Cialdiniâs seminal book, \x3Cem>Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion\x3C/em>, outlines several of these universal principles, including reciprocity, consistency, and scarcity.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Scarcity is perhaps the most misunderstood. Critics rightfully despise false scarcity, the dishonest tactic of claiming a digital product is âalmost sold out.â But real scarcity is a powerful and ethical tool.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>As author Daniel Priestley discusses in his book \x3Cem>Oversubscribed\x3C/em>, every creative business has finite capacity. A videographer can only handle a certain number of clients at a time. \x3Cem>âDrigo at any point in time can only work with two to three clients,â\x3C/em> Do says, referring to his co-host. \x3Cem>âYet he does not communicate that to his audience.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This failure to communicate real limitations is a massive missed opportunity. When a potential client knows you only have one or two openings in the next quarter, it creates genuine urgency. There is a real penalty for waiting. In contrast, if you are always available, there is no reason for them to make a decision today. Communicating your real capacity is not a lie; itâs a business reality that leverages the psychological principle that we want what we can't have. Communicating value and capacity is key to attracting premium clients, a strategy Daniel Priestley himself unpacks in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/strategies-attract-high-ticket-clients-daniel-priestley\">Proven Strategies to Attract High Ticket Clients\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Meritocracy Is A Myth\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>The most dangerous belief in the creative community is the myth of meritocracy. \x3Cem>âI think that's a myth that people who don't really understand how things are doneâ\x3C/em> believe, says Do. The idea is seductive: if you are good enough, the work will find you. If you build it, they will come.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This may have worked in a different era. But today, being good is the cost of entry. It is the baseline expectation.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>You have to be better than good.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>And being better than good means learning marketing and sales. How many truly talented creatives do you know who are struggling to find work? And how many less-talented competitors seem to land the lion's share of opportunities? The world is not a just place where the best person automatically wins.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The world runs on a different, much older principle.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>People hire who they know, like, and trust.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>If you are not known, you will not get the call. If you rely solely on word-of-mouth, you are being passive. You are letting others control your destiny. To be the master of your own fate, you must be proactive. You must engage in marketing, PR, social media, and promotion. You must choose a platform and a strategy to become known.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Stop hiding behind your craft, waiting for the world to discover your genius. It will not happen. You must learn the principles of influence and apply them within your own ethical framework.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>You must write your own story.\x3C/p>",transcript:"Over a million views on the better call saw video. People had questions. Hopefully today you can bring them some answers. >> But before we start, I just want to thank each and every single person that's watched this. Whether it came on your feed accidentally or on purpose, thank you very much. We've It's been a hot minute since we had a million view bangers. So heartfelt genuine thank you. Thank y
1ou. All right, I'm going to read this one comment. And some of them are comments, some of them are questions. And they're they run the spectrum from hate you, hate your face to love it, brilliant genius. So we'll we'll chill on the genius ones. Okay, we'll we'll go into the ones that have some substance to them. Gummy Sammy said he's doing what Simon Synynic teaches about start with why. Jimmy isn't selling what, which is a phone. He is selling the why. Privacy. This is a valuable thing to unpack and I think Gummy Sammy really brought the heat on this and this is really good insight. Whenever we make something, what people buy isn't what they pay for necessarily. So you buy a pair of shoes, but you pay for belongingness, a feeling of accomplishment, and just some maybe inspiration. And what what Jimmy had discovered in this moment is why do people buy cell phones? And we can sell features and functions, which is what we talked about in the video, but he started to look for an alternative reason why someone would buy a cell phone. And he found a really unique thing. So he created a customer and he he was like maybe one really novel use of the phone is for privacy because we're concerned that the man is listening. Excellent comment contribution. Thank you Gummy Sammy. >> So like for our viewers that are designers videographers photographers what is it that you see that they're doing wrong with this? What are they selling and how can they use this lesson to help sell more of their services? Okay, let's address the elephant in the room because we got a lot of comments about you're just teaching people to be slimy, dishonest, deceitful, and scummy and they hate everything about this idea, this practice. What they're not really seeing in the forest through the trees here is a fundamental business principle which I think Peter Ducker talked about which is the purpose of a business is to be profitable and to create a customer and that all business are in the business of sales and marketing. Let's try to understand this from a practical business point of view. Removing it from the fictional world of television. There's a concept that many of you may know. It's called the blue ocean strategy. If you move your boat to somewhere else where there's less competition, the fish may have migrated or there's a new pocket of fish and you have no competition. And it's a very valid strategy. In his book, The Innovator's Dilemma, the late Dr. Clayton Christensen talks about this. Honda motorcycles wanting to compete in America. America's a big market for Honda, but the problem with their motorcycles is at that time Harley-Davidsons are the dominant vehicle. They're loud, they're powerful, and they're heavy and expensive. And Honda has by all measures a underpowered smaller lighter motorcycle that is not designed to ride on the on the freeways. Cuz in Japan, they're limited access to fastmoving roads. So, they don't need that power, nor do they need the speed cuz you just can't drive that fast. So, these two people who are spearheading the the launch of Honda motorcycles in America are just showing up every single day and they're not really selling any of these motorcycles and they feel the stress and the weight of doing this thinking it's a total failure and by their sales it is a total failure. So, one thing they do on the weekends is to blow off some steam. So, they take these motorcycles off-roading. They go onto paths and trails in the hills and they're riding around. They're having a good time. This is an ideally suited situation or environment for smaller, more agile motorcycles. And some people noticed. They're like, \"Hey, what are those?\" And soon a new industry was created called dirt bikes or off-roading with motorcycles. And thus, Honda was able to have a footprint in America. They created a new lane, a new use case. And almost by accident, they found a new use for the motorcycle that no one else had paid attention to. They moved into a lane that had no competition. Blue Ocean Strategy. >> How can our viewers apply this lesson from the TV show into their own business? >> Okay. So, what business are they in? >> They're in video production. >> I know a little bit about this and and you're in it. So, we can talk about this from firsthand knowledge and experience. Okay. Most people get into video production because they aspire to become cinema directors. They want to work on feature films, shorts. They want to work on the most cinematic, most beautiful thing. This is why we love lenses and bokeh and aperture, all the kind of crazy things cuz we aspire to make a Hollywood feature film production. And so what we settle for is some version that is a proxy for that. Okay? So you get out into the world, whether you're selftaught or you go to USC, you're going to make videos and you're going to settle for whatever pays you some money. and you're going to go uphill in this battle of trying to convince a buyer of video services that doesn't want to pay you for it and you're going to try to oversell them quality, right? And I put quality in these air quotes, but let's just assume objectively it's higher quality, but they don't give they don't give a rat's tail about whether or not this is quality or not. They wanted to do something which is an announcement or they want to talk about their services cuz they're going to do a video sales letter of some sort. >> They want their phone to ring. So what they want is their phone to ring and they want to pay as little to buy that opportunity as possible and you want to sell art. That's the problem. So there's a conflict. So if we say, okay, let's remove ourselves from this world and say, who else might want a video outside of the traditional market of I'm going to sell something. I don't want the phones to ring. It might require some thinking on this, but luckily you and I have talked about this before. If you sell videos as a form of way for you to make a living, you have to ask yourself, who in this world would pay the most amount of money for videos and I have a steady constant supply of customers for? And you could say Hollywood, but there's not a constant steady supply of customers. And there's way more qualified people to do it than you today. Maybe not forever, but today. So, I start to think there's this new emerging market where there are authors, experts, people who are authorities in their space that want to grow their influence. And we know that video is the dominant format for content because it's easiest to consume. It requires the least or the lowest amount of mental lift or processing from the end user to get a piece of information. Plus, it activates not only visuals, but sound and music. And so, we're tapping into a lot of different multiensory things. That's why videos are so powerful. So, if we look at entrepreneurs who are established, who are making $3 to $100 million a year, and they're they're not in it to make more money. They're in it to build authority, what we would call thought leadership, or grow their influence, to rise above their peers, to be the most influential person in their space. Video is something that they want to use. You take for example people like Simon Squib, Alex Hermoszi and run down the list Dan Martell and they're spending tens of thousands, maybe even a hundred thous
1and dollars or more a month building out their video team. Our our good buddy Caleb, he consults people on how to build their video content team because he's seen that demand and that dude is booked solid. He's figured out I don't need to make the videos. What I want to do is build systems for people who don't know how to run a media company and I can do that. I believe his offer is public. I believe it's $100,000 to work with him and he has too many clients. He has too many opportunities. So that's a pretty good clue as how you apply this blue ocean strategy where you go where someone else is not going and you find a new customer for the very thing that you're doing. When you write a sales page or sales letter, use the PAS system problem agitate solution. If you can identify your ideal client and talk about the problems and agitate it, they're going to be more interested or keen in finding out what the solution is. But the problem with the PAS is you must first identify a new type of customer, not the same type of customer that everyone else is going after. So if you say tired of your phones not ringing off the hook or does your video sales letter suck butt? Well, I'm the guy who just saw that is going after the same demographic. This requires radical thinking. This is why it's not so easy to create a new customer. But if you can create a new customer, one who didn't realize they needed the solution, which no one else has thought about before, that's where you make a lot of money. That's where you own and define categories. Here's another example in case you're struggling with this. And I just want to express this that creating paradigm shifts, inventing new categories is not for the weak at heart. This is not something you just roll out of bed like, \"Oh, I got a brilliant idea.\" You really have to set the intentionality in order to be able to do this. And it requires a lot of brain work. But whenever we see it and we reverse engineer it becomes very obvious to us. The next example I'm going to share with you is a company called method soap. There are some advertising marketing guys who are sitting around thinking one is a chemist by the way uh sitting there thinking what category in the household can we reinvent one that is lowhanging fruit for us. And they looked around and after many different ideas and brainstorming they found a very common problem which is all the people who have hand soap are embarrassed to have it on the counter. When you have guests come by you want to put it away because the market is dominated by a company called Dial and the bottle is ugly, the label's ugly, everything about it is ugly and so you feel shameful to have it out in your aesthetic apartment, kitchen or wherever it is that you have. So they said you know what can we do to make it so that people are happy to leave it out without hiding it. Now the story is they don't have a lot of money and they know of a very famous industrial designer his name is Karim Rashid an Egyptian American designer and they ask Kareem Kareem can you do something for us and he goes you know what you have just enough money for me to design one idea for you and as the story goes he designs the teardrop shape which becomes this super iconic thing. Now there are other attributes to it but what we want to do is focus on the main driving factor which is aesthetic. Now they are using more natural ingredients less harmful things and all those things are fine but if they put in the exact same packaging and the same aesthetic I guarantee you it will fail because this is why Dial can't do this. So method creates a new category basically selling soap to a different market people who want to wash their hands but care about the environment and the interior design of their space. And so then they go on to be wildly successful and start to crush the marketplace. That's another example. Third example, dude wipes. They took baby wipes, which you use if you have a child to kind of clean up the bum and it's got some quality, some lotion and things like that, but you know, it makes a messy thing a little bit less gross. Then they realized that a lot of people don't have bedayets, but feel a little gross after going to the toilet. And they create this thing called dude wipes. literally the same product, the same ingredients, but package it in black and change the design so it appeals to men and then call it something that they can relate to. Dude wipes. What they did was to demonstrate in this example, create a different market for the exact same product. This is how you create a disruption and a category innovation. We didn't know
1we needed this until you told us we need this and you've solved that problem. The same exact thing. So don't dismiss valid marketing product innovation ideas because you don't like the literal example. Look below the surface and you'll discover something really wonderful that can actually turbocharge your business and you could very well be the next dude wipes or method soap or Honda motorcycles. >> Is there an exercise or something that you'd recommend for creatives that they can maybe try to figure out these different verticals that are that have not been tapped in yet? >> Here's what I would recommend for you to do. First of all, forget about your category because you're too close to it. What you want to do is pick any common product and look for a problem and lots of problems and say, \"How might we solve this and invent a new category of a different buyer?\" Here's the really good news. The world is ripe for disruption because products that use and love today were designed from a whole different decade or a different era and things have changed dramatically. And the other thing I can tell you is look for niche markets that are are passionate but underserved. I'll give you another example. The founder of liquid death didn't create water. Didn't create anything new per se, but found that there are people who are moving away from alcohol. They don't want to drink, but they're like maybe a little punk rock or they're younger or they're maybe they're straight edge. And he wanted to figure out how to serve them best. And all the soft drink companies know this because the sales of Coca-Cola in North America have steadily declined year after year. They know this is a problem. And we can see that people are much more health consscious and they're moving away from alcohol and they want to live a healthier cleaner life. So what they did was the novelty let's be ironic about it and call it liquid death and then come up with a clever tagline murder your thirst in keeping with liquid death and the PS deistance is to hire the illustrator that created the melting liquid skull. The three put together, liquid death, a name, being ironic about it, murder your thirst, capturing this kind of sentiment, being tongue-in-cheek about it, and creating this really cool skull liquid melting thing in a aluminum can allowed them to price their product in a tall boy so it looked like alcohol. So you have all the taboo of alcohol and none of the hangover. That's the innovation. They created a new market, a new customer for the same exact product. That's genius. >> To shift things real quick, you got a lot of negative comments talking about like, \"Yeah, Chris, this is great, but this is just TV. This is not real life.\" >> Yeah. >> Other comments were, \"This is pretty much everything I hate about the marketing industry and why nobody trusts advertising and marketing. create false demand, creating fake scarcity, leveraging people's insecurities, misrepresenting your product and services. >> Yeah. >> What do you say about that? >> Well, I have to say you live in a fantasy world and there are predatory practices of marketing, advertising. We want to set that aside and we'll get to that in a second. But what you understand is humans are meaning making machines. If I buy this, who am I? Who do I become in the pursuit of this thing that I have? Right? So the shoes that you wear, the house that you live in, the neighborhood, the party you vote for, you're all complicit in the lie be
1cause it's part of your identity. And to deny that is not to really look at reality. So how do we challenge this thought a little bit? So what is something that you've purchased that you didn't need but then discovered that you need? Well, let's put it in this way. If you're a man, you have been sold this idea that if you use these products, you become much more attractive to the people of opposite sex. Presumably, if you drink this drink, if you drive this car and you're happy to be a part of it, do you like Porsches? Well, Porsches are marketed to you to say, basically, you drive a Porsche, you get a girl. It kind of comes with a car. At least that's the thing that they tell you. Even a diamond ring, which was a gigantic marketing ploy created by Dip Beers, that a diamond is forever, a diamond's a girl's best friend. And now that we have a whole society built on a man's worth in relation to the size of the diamond, the clarity of the cut that he can provide to the woman of his dreams. This is all part of the lie and you buy into it. So why are you drawing the line? Now if you want to rebuke all of this, you can even get into religion. Religion is giant marketing propaganda campaign designed to save your soul and every religion believes it's the one true religion and that every other one is false. So again, these are all marketing things and it's tribalism. If I believe this, if I say these words, if I wear these things, if I drive this vehicle, I belong to a certain tribe of people. And if you were to audit yourself, unless you wear plain white t-shirts and you live in a white room with nothing branded and you participate in none of this, then you can say, \"I am free of sin.\" But otherwise, we feel great about all these things and we're complicit in the lie. You can read a whole book on it called All Marketers Are Liars written by Seth Goden and it might break your mind. >> Why do you think this pushed so many buttons for people? Like this is probably the major theme of what we saw in the comments of like this you're snake salesman. Like you're just teaching people how to con. Why do you think that hit such a nerve? >> Well, I think because Saul is a con man and he is kind of like the anti-hero in the story. He does despicable things. He has a questionable morality and ethical guideline, but down at the core, he's a really good guy. He's trying to do right, but he's willing to take shortcuts. And we see the devolvement of his ethical boundaries as the series progresses. And we kind of see where maybe it touches on on lines which we would not cross, but it's entertaining to watch. What I'm trying to do is extract free of the morality part the marketing sales principles that are driving the conversation. Vince Gillian to me must have had a background in marketing, advertising or writing but he understands this so well because not only in uh Breaking Bad but also in Better Call Saul. He is able to write amazing scenes where people are negotiating objection handling and pricing and creating a new market that I think if he's not he has some natural talent for doing this because those principles are the principles I understand have deployed myself but we all do it to our own moral and ethical co
1de. I'm not manipulating anybody. I don't believe in lying to anyone. If you create false scarcity that's a problem for me. Real scarcity is a thing. For example, Daniel Priestley talks about this in in his book oversubscribe, I think, if not in that book, at least in conversation. He says, \"We all have finite amounts of clients that we can take on.\" So for you, how many clients can you work with in a month? >> In a month, two or three. >> Drigo at any point in time can only work with two to three clients. Yet he does not communicate that to his audience to say, \"I can only take on three clients a month.\" That creates scarcity already. We do not have unlimited capacity. You cannot infinitely scale creative businesses. But what we don't do is to communicate that to the outside world. Therefore, when someone gets to work with you, they're like, \"Wow, I'm glad I got my money in before the next batch of clients come to you cuz I really do want to work with you.\" That's real scarcity. And that's a real concept that you can use because we want what we can't have. And also, we are very aware that if we don't get in on this round, we might have to wait 2 3 4 6 months and our problem can't wait that long. But if you are always available 247, seven days a week, basically available at any point in time, there's no urgency for them to make a decision because there's no penalty for them to wait. So if there's no penalty, they just wait. >> So if I'm a creative and I want to communicate to people that I have a finite amount of resources, what would that post or how would you communicate this in your marketing? >> Very simple. Okay. >> The way you would market is at any one time I can only process six or seven clients. I actually have an opening in June. If you're interested in working with me, get on the wait list now. Reach out. Let me know. >> So, is this something you put on your website and making a >> put every single where every single place you could you can write and tell people this because they need to know, right? Restaurants do this all the time. Concerts do this all the time. They announce when the tickets are going to go on sale. They have a history of selling out and they tell you in advance when you can book or when you can buy tickets. And probably for their loyal customers, they might give you a little lead time. But maybe you're a sneaker head and they do this exact same thing. They have limited drops. I wouldn't consider a drop. It would just be a release where only the people in the know, loyal customers or people who are in the VIP club have access to this and they know they will sell out. People wait in line for them and then they could immediately turn around and flip the shoes. It's a kind of wink wink relationship they have with their diehard fans. basically will give you early access to a finite quantity of shoes. They can massproduce them and then allow you to flip them for your loyalty. This is a fantastic way for me as the end consumer. I hate it and I hear you if you hate this practice because the shoe I want is never retail anymore. It's 2 3x but I'm not willing to wait in line and I don't want to participate in that. So I have to choose. I can choose not to buy it, not to care or I can wait in line. I can join the lottery or I can buy it at 23x or I can wait for it to go back down to earth and buy it then. Those are all my options. But this is a very real thing. >> A lot of the other comments are about being a con artist and you're just teaching people how to lie. >> You know what the word con artist stands for? When when there's a con man. Do you know what that is? >> No. Tell me. >> The root of that is you're a confidence man. You make me believe this is real. And so part of the confidence game is to create this idea that you can believe in this person. Now you're being conned all the time and you're conning other people. The only difference between you and a criminal is they're doing it with lies. You should do it for real cuz the same principles are at play. And I would strongly recommend people read Dr. Calaldini's book on this called
1influence the psychology of persuasion. And it is an excellent book on principles that we as society have evolved to develop. I'll give you the top three things I recall from Dr. Calaldini's book. Contrast, reciprocity, and consistency. These are psychological triggers that people deploy all the time. You do it as well and and or scarcity is one of them. Uh that something's not available or reciprocity which means I've done something for you and then therefore you want to do something back for me. These all work in a modern society. >> So if you have a good product, you shouldn't have to need to pull this crap to sell it. I think that's a myth that people who don't really understand how things are done. And I understand the sensitivity around this because I believe in creative communities and circles, we're taught to focus on our craft to be the best that we can be. And if you're really good, you never have to sell. And I think that may or may not have worked a long time ago through reputation, through referrals that you might get more and more clients this way. But we live in a modern era where being good is expected. You have to be better than good. And what does that mean? That means you have to learn how to do marketing and sales. How many of you watching this video think you know of somebody or or are that person who's really good but doesn't get any work? Well, in a just world that wouldn't happen. And how many people have witnessed this or are the beneficiaries of this where you're you know you're not as good or they're not as good but they seem to get the lion share of the opportunities. How many people would raise their hand? Just type me in the comments. Okay. So, we have to acknowledge the reality of the world versus the ideal world in which we live in. We want to say everything's based on meritocracy, based on merit that you get the opportunities. This is not how it works. People hire who they know, like, and trust. This is not a new idea. So, if you are not wellknown, the chances of you getting work is going to decrease tremendously because they don't know that you exist to let alone to call you. If you have a weird website name and you don't do SEO and you do no social media or any media at all, we'll just call it media. If you don't do any media, PR, promotions, direct marketing, you don't do any of that stuff, how is someone going to get to know you? You rely on the few people who have had personal interaction with you to do your marketing for you. That's called word of mouth advertising. And that works. And for many of you, that's 99% of how you get work. But it's a very passive form of getting leads. And that's why you have fewer opportunities than the capacity to do the work. So what we want to say is would you like to be the master of your own destiny to write your own chapters in your book? If you do, you have to be proactive, not reactive. So you can choose whatever method it works for you so that you become a little bit better known than your competitors. However you choose to do that, it's up to you. >> I think that's a great way for us to end the segment. Chris, >> I've been made aware that we're painfully bad at letting people know about the programs that we have. So I'm going to do my best to tell you right now. We have memberships here on YouTube that you can participate and support the channel with a dollar a month or you can become a patron level member which gives you access to exclusive videos. But you're really saying to us, we love your content. Please keep doing what you're doing cuz I want to quote Anna Lope on this. She says that every dollar that you spend is a vote for the kind of world you want to live in. I'm paraphrasing here. So, by supporting us, you're saying you all hope that we win and we're able to make more content that we're able to drown out all the charlatans, all the people of low value, of low experience. And for that, I appreciate you. Another way you can support is just subscribing to the channel, and that goes a really long way. So, if you can do that, I'd appreciate it. Thank y
1ou.",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k520NhbFhIE",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/k520NhbFhIE",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/k520NhbFhIE/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:1482,duration_display:"24m",view_count:110870,published_at:"2026-06-03T15:00:36+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Chris Do: Marketing Psychology Secrets | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do breaks down the marketing psychology of smart brands. Learn to apply Blue Ocean Strategy to create new customers and stop competing on price and features.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-06-04T06:00:06.485668+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:03.764481+00:00",faq:$R[68]=[],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:5133,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"marketing psychology",secondary_keywords:$R[69]=["blue ocean strategy","create new markets","category innovation","sales psychology"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[70]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[71]={id:"83bb3b42-8260-4664-bca1-f9285c82f6f8",video_id:"m30YwxRJYcc",title:"How to heal from betrayal & stop being a victim with Dr. John Demartini",slug:"how-to-heal-from-betrayal-and-stop-being-a-victim",topic_tag:"MINDSET",secondary_tags:$R[72]=["PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do hosts Dr. John Demartini for a powerful live coaching session on reframing betrayal and becoming the master of your destiny.",pull_quote:"You can be a victim of history or master of destiny.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[73]=[$R[74]={headline:"Your Perceptions Determine Your Destiny.",explanation:"You are not defined by what happens to you, but by how you interpret it. Altering your perception is the key to altering your life."},$R[75]={headline:"Accountability Dissolves Resentment.",explanation:"The traits you judge most harshly in others are often reflections of your own disowned actions. Owning this dissolves the foundation of your resentment."},$R[76]={headline:"Every Crisis Contains a Hidden Benefit.",explanation:"Events are never one-sided. Every perceived negative event, including betrayal, contains an equal and opposite benefit that serves your growth."},$R[77]={headline:"Victimhood Is a Story You Tell Yourself.",explanation:"The narrative of being a victim is an illusion. Asking the right questions helps you see the hidden order in the chaos and reclaim your power."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>The Anatomy of Betrayal\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Your life runs on stories. The ones you tell yourself about your childhood, your career, your relationships. Especially the ones about your pain.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>We are told betrayal is a wound inflicted upon us, an act of villainy that leaves us scarred and victimized. This story is comforting. It is simple. It is also a lie.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>During a live coaching session at The Futur, Chris Do invited Dr. John Demartini, a world-renowned human behavior specialist, to dismantle this very illusion. What unfolded was not a gentle talk. It was a surgical procedure on the soul of one brave volunteer.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The story began with a familiar, searing pain. A woman recounted how a close friend, âDeborah,â betrayed her confidence, revealing an affair to her husband. The disclosure shattered her marriage and left her carrying years of resentment. \x3Cem>âShe undermined my marriage,â\x3C/em> the woman explained. A simple narrative: a friendâs jealousy leads to a lifeâs destruction.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>But Dr. Demartini does not deal in narratives. \x3Cem>âPeople love to share their narratives,â\x3C/em> he stated, \x3Cem>âbut narratives don't get you anywhere. They're slow.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>His work, refined over 52 years, is about finding the truth that sets you free from the stories. It is about moving from emotional distraction to a state of profound gratitude for your life as it is, not as you fantasize it should be. The foundation of this work is a simple but radical premise articulated by philosopher William James: \x3Cem>âHuman beings can alter their lives by altering their perceptions and attitudes and mind.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The choice is stark. \x3Cem>âYou can be a victim of history or master of destiny,â\x3C/em> Demartini declared. \x3Cem>âIt all depends on your perception.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Interrogation of Truth\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Dr. Demartiniâs process is not about validation. It is about inquisition. He began by deconstructing the woman's story, forcing her to move past the emotional haze of âbetrayalâ and isolate the specific, observable action she was judging.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The core resentment was not the friend's jealousy, but the act of telling the husband. Even that was hearsay. \x3Cem>âYou didn't actually perceive it,â\x3C/em> Demartini pointed out. The anger was triggered by her husband's report and others bragging about the plan. He zeroed in on the most tangible point of pain: \x3Cem>âthat she would was bragging about publicly taking me down.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>With the charge defined, the truly uncomfortable work began. This is the heart of \x3Cstrong>The Demartini Method\x3C/strong>, a process designed to reveal the hidden order in apparent chaos. Dr. Demartini referenced a quote from Romans 2:1: whatever we judge in others, we are doing the same thing. \x3Cem>âWe only judge people on the outside that we resent for representations of parts of ourselves that we're ashamed of in ourselves that we don't want to look at.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>He issued a direct challenge: \x3Cem>âGo to a moment in your life where you bragged about taking somebody down and told somebody exactly what you're seeing in her.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Initial resistance is standard. \x3Cem>âI don't know. I can't think of any. None of that works with me,â\x3C/em> Demartini said, pre-empting the excuses. The process demands radical accountability.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Slowly, the memories surfaced. An incident at age 20, publicly shaming her mother to get âpayback.â A corporate situation where she took glee in a colleagueâs downfall and talked about how he âhad it coming.â A time she, as a board chair, made sure a committee knew about someoneâs prior disrespect to bring them down. Undermining a stepfather. Sabotaging a former partner's re-employment prospects.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>One by one, the examples dismantled her self-righteous position. Each story was a different variation, but the core action was identical to what she condemned in Deborah. This isn't about feeling shame; it's about achieving what Demartini calls \x3Cstrong>reflective awareness and transparency\x3C/strong>. Until you do, you remain trapped. \x3Cem>âAs long as you're too proud to admit what you see in them, you're going to self-righteously project your values onto them and condemn them and hide your own shame.â\x3C/em> This is a core tenet of building \x3Ca href=\"/watch/your-insecurity-is-your-brand\">an authentic personal brand\x3C/a>: you cannot build on a foundation of hidden truths.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This is not about being a bad person. It is about being a whole person. The exercise proves that the impulse to expose, undermine, or seek retribution is a universal human trait, not a unique evil possessed by our enemies.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Finding the Hidden Order\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Once the foundation of judgment was cracked, Dr. Demartini pivoted to the second, and arguably most transformative, part of the process. He instructed the woman to go back to the precise moment she felt the sting of betrayal, when her husband confirmed Deborah's actions.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Then he asked a question that defies all victim narratives: \x3Cem>
1âHow did that benefit you?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Silence. Followed by an attempt to deflect. \x3Cem>âIt didn't,â\x3C/em> she said. Demartini was unyielding. \x3Cem>âI don't ask questions I don't have answers to,â\x3C/em> he stated. \x3Cem>âEverything has both advantages and disadvantages. If you choose to see the disadvantage, you become a victim of history.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>He began to probe, area by area, forcing her to find the upside in the wreckage of her marriage. The answers, when they came, were staggering. The betrayal was not a curse. It was a catalyst. It was the key that unlocked a prison she didn't even realize she was in.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The benefits of this supposed catastrophe included:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Career Liberation:\x3C/strong> The affair and subsequent divorce were a desperate attempt to escape her husband's shadow. \x3Cem>âI was able to come out from behind his shadow,â\x3C/em> she confessed through tears. The betrayal forced her to become visible, to reposition herself with her own power, and to pursue her career with more gusto.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Intellectual Freedom:\x3C/strong> She learned a multi-million-dollar lesson: \x3Cem>âIt wasn't my job to sacrifice for somebody else's happiness.â\x3C/em> The event broke the spell of infatuation and subordination, a crucial step in personal development.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Financial Gain:\x3C/strong> The divorce settlement provided money for a house, something she desired. Deborah, her betrayer, was an unwitting facilitator of her financial independence. \x3Cem>âDid you ever give her a percentage of the income that you earned as a consultant?â\x3C/em> Demartini wryly asked.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Social Realignment:\x3C/strong> The crisis acted as a filter. It forced her to screen out superficial friendships tied to her husband and prioritize people aligned with her own mission. \x3Cem>âI didn't thank her for that either,â\x3C/em> she admitted.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Physical Transformation:\x3C/strong> Post-divorce, she got in great shape, not just for the market, but to rebuild her self-image. The betrayal kickstarted a journey of self-love and physical empowerment.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>This process of finding the hidden order is rooted in the work of Claude Shannon, the father of information theory. As Demartini explained, Shannon's theory suggests that disorder is simply the result of missing information. By asking questions that reveal the hidden benefits, you reclaim that missing information and the apparent chaos resolves into a perfect, ordered system. It's a way to find clarity, similar to the frameworks taught in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-develop-a-brand-strategy\">developing a brand strategy\x3C/a>, where you find order in market chaos.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Balance of Life\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The most profound revelations came when Demartini explored how the event impacted her family. The woman carried immense guilt about her daughter, believing the divorce had broken her home. \x3Cem>âThat's what I feel guilty about,â\x3C/em> she said.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Demartini dismantled the guilt with logic. \x3Cem>âYou only feel guilty when you assume you did an act that caused more pain and pleasure to somebody,â\x3C/em> he explained. \x3Cem>âIf you see the benefits to them, that's gone.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>How did the divorce help her daughter? The truth was undeniable. \x3Cem>âI was more present and a better parent,â\x3C/em> she said. The daughter blossomed, becoming more independent. The absence of the father was not a void; it was an opportunity. New mentors and coaches stepped in, figures who were often \x3Cem>âmore present for herâ\x3C/em> than her own father had been.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Nothing is ever missing. It just changes form.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This principle of balance is a cornerstone of Demartini's philosophy. Life is a constant dance of paired opposites. For every praise, a reprimand. For every support, a challenge. For every betrayal, a loyalty. He asked the woman to identify who, at the moment of betrayal, was acting as her loyal confidant. The answer was her therapist. \x3Cem>âAnytime you get infatuated or like somebody that you can disclose your narrative story to that can't say anything⦠you attract a betrayer to break your addiction to that because you don't grow in that.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Her dependency on the therapist for validation was a trap. Deborah's betrayal was the necessary force to break that dependency and push her toward true self-reliance. Without it, she would have remained stuck, just as she was stuck in her husband's shadow. The ability to see this balance is a high-level skill, much like the advanced tactics needed for \x3Ca href=\"/watch/advanced-communication-tactics-for-success\">mastering communication in business and life\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The ultimate test came with a final, mind-bending question: \x3Cem>âIf she had never told him⦠what would have been the drawback to your life today?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The answer was immediate and clear. \x3Cem>âI would have been still stuck.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Liberation of Gratitude\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>In the span of an hour, a story of victimization was transformed into a narrative of liberation. The villain was revealed to be a catalyst. The wound was revealed to be a doorway. The pain was the price of freedom.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The woman had been carrying the weight of the story, but the story was the only thing weighing her down. She believed she needed her husband's approval, but his withdrawal forced her to find her own independence. She feared losing him, but that fear was what kept her small. \x3Cem>âI would have felt like I couldn't rise above him because then I would lose him,â\x3C/em> she realized.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Dr. Demartini identifies this as a classic dynamic. \x3Cem>
1âWhen somebody praises you, you become juvenile dependent. When somebody criticizes you and challenges you, you become precociously independent. If he hadn't done that, you would have been trapped.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The resentment she held for Deborah was a placeholder for the accountability she refused to take for her own life. She had wanted out of the marriage but lacked the courage to be the one to end it, fearing judgment. \x3Cem>âYou had to have the perfect person to come in and help you catalyze it,â\x3C/em> Demartini noted.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âSomeone to blame,â\x3C/em> she finally added. A scapegoat.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The entire ordeal, from the affair to the betrayal to the divorce, was a perfectly orchestrated, unconscious plan to get her to a place of authenticity and power. A place where she could finally say, \x3Cem>âI just live in my truth now.â\x3C/em> This journey from hiding to truth is a universal struggle, whether in personal life or professional endeavors like \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-build-a-million-dollar-personal-brand\">building a personal brand\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Dr. Demartini had one last question. \x3Cem>âRight now, if Deborah was sitting in front of you, what would you tell her?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The heavy resentment was gone, replaced by a lightness and clarity. The complex narrative of pain, jealousy, and ruin had dissolved. Only three simple words remained.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThank you, Deborah.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Master of Your Destiny\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The stories you tell yourself are cages. They are comfortable, familiar, and they absolve you of responsibility. The story of the victim, the betrayed, the misunderstood is the most seductive cage of all. It offers sympathy but demands your power in return.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Dr. Demartini's work is not about feeling better. It is about seeing clearly. It is about understanding that the universe is not happening to you; it is happening for you. Every person, every event, every challenge is a perfectly placed piece in the puzzle of your own evolution.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The quality of your life is based on the quality of the questions you ask. Stop asking why this happened *to* you. Start asking how it happened *for* you. What did you learn? How did it help you? Where was the hidden benefit?\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Your life is not a random series of chaotic events. It is a system of perfect, hidden order. Your job is not to lament the chaos but to find the order. To see the blessing in the breakdown, the praise in the criticism, the love in the betrayal.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>You have been on track the whole time. The only error was in your perception.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Let the old stories go. They are crap. You are not a victim of history. You are the master of your destiny.\x3C/p>",transcript:"The quality of your life's based on the quality of the questions you ask. The questions you ask make you conscious of what you've been unconscious of. So it helps you expand awareness. We run our illusions till we're ready for the truth. The truth kind of sets us free from the stories. Today I'm sitting down with Dr. John D. Martini. He is a worldrenowned author, coach, speaker, and somebody you're going to want to listen to. We use the stories because of all the moral hypocrisies. We get indoctrinated about how people are supposed to be instead of seeing how magnificent they are in the journey. >> What you're about to watch is a live in-person coaching session and it gets really uncomfortable, but we have major breakthroughs. >> Just know that any of the stories that you've had in your life, I I went through this, I had this and I challenged childhood and all that stuff, it's all [Â __Â ] It's your perceptions, decisions, and actions on how to interpret it. You can be a victim of history or master of destiny. It all depends on your perception. >> Out of respect for the individuals who participated in the conversation because it got really raw and real, we've elected to blur out their faces to protect their identity. This story begins um a little over a year ago, probably two years ago. I'm having dinner with a couple of friends, new friends, Tim Francis and a guy named Rohan. And they're both telling me about this remarkable person. Separate stories. And I don't know the names of anybody just yet, except for I know what Tim said to me, which is if you could attend one workshop in your life, just one, this is the one that you have to meet this man. He has an incredible way of helping people through some very tough, challenging, traumatic things in their lives. And I was really intrigued. And then the other story was the gentleman across the table from me and his name is Rohan. He was telling me about how he had in the last couple years gone through some really traumatic stuff. His father had died. his business partner stole money from him and stole the business and then Meta Facebook canceled his accounts which he had close to or a million followers and he was devastated and he was having a hard t
1ime and he called his coach and he was telling this whole story I'm like this is remarkable this is incredible Tim Francis just texted me he says do you know Rohan when he was telling that story do you know who his coach was like I don't know I have no idea who his coach could be he said Dr. John D. Martini, Small World. So, he's helped a lot of people through lots of things. He has something called the D Martini method, obviously, and it helps people through some of their toughest roadblocks. And I'm hoping rather than just me extending the interview is that first we can just describe it so everybody here knows what's going on. And if there is somebody who has something they'd like help with for for Dr. D. Martini to demonstrate and we can work on it together and see hopefully just the genius behind all this. and I just want to be a student here and listen and learn. >> The quality of your life's based on the quality of the questions you ask. The questions you ask make you conscious of what you've been unconscious of. So it helps you expand awareness. And the method which I've been working on for 52 years um is a series of very concise questions that help you discover the hidden order in the apparent chaos the disorder. Claude Channon in information theory basically said that information that's missing is entropic and represents disorder. And if you reclaim the information, you can find the hidden order in things and why things are occurring, the meaning behind it. So it's a very series of concise questions to help navigate people from emotional distractions to poison presence so they can be grateful for their life instead of comparing it to an unrealistic expectation that they projected. And um I've been blessed to um use that and develop that for many years. And um we've helped people in all different types of situations. I make a statement that there's nothing your mortal body can experience that your mortal soul can't love. So it doesn't matter what you've been through, what you've gone through, what you've experienced. It's your perceptions, decisions, and actions on how to interpret it. You can be a victim of history or master of destiny. It all depends on your perception. William James said the greatest discovery of his generations that human beings can alter their lives by altering their perceptions and attitudes and mind. So this is a science a reproducible science that I've trained probably probably eight or nine thousand people in using and they're using it around the world to assist people in navigating through the apparent chaos so they can look at life on the way not in the way. Okay, you guys get that? Every word is a lot to unpack here. And that's how I felt last time when we were having our conversation. Just be quiet and listen and stay silent as for long as you can. >> Somebody said listening to you is like drinking from a fire hydrant. >> So, how do we do this in the time that we have together? Because I know you have a heart out to be mindful of that. Is how do we do this so that we can get a taste of how this process works? Because I think I'm 100% bought in on this idea. The quality of questions you ask determines quality for life. When you start to ask questions, you start to look inward and understand like why you can overcome these things and the perception of what has happened to you can drastically alter your destiny or where you end up. How do we do this? Because I just want to give your space, you do your thing, and I just want to sit here and only chime in when necessary. >> That's great. Well, usually we start with somebody that's got something they want to work on. >> Okay. Um sometimes I'm in a conference and I'll ask people does anybody have anything that they want to work on um challenges conflicts resentments, angers, grief or anything whatever it is that they have and um whatever area of life that they want and then usually people vote based on who has the most intriguing information or issue that they want to work on and we go there. We start there. And I I think there is something about the risk of being vulnerable. If you want to get a reward, I remember many years ago when I was talking to my business coach about seeing a therapist, he said, \"If you're not going to tell the truth, don't even bother. Don't even bother.\" And so I went in there with the mindset like if I hold back, I'm all holding back for myself. So we can start with any kind of challenge, roadblock, uh anything traumatic of frustration, something that you've been trying to work through but haven't been able to. And we'll pass you the mic. I think the m mic is working this time. Does anybody want to start? >> And and by the way, depending on what that is, sometimes I'm not using the D Martini method to help solve it. So, it depends on what it is. If it's if it's a conflict, if a resentment or an infatuation or a loss or something like that, I may use the method. Other times, I may use my work with value applications. So, if people are frustrated in their job, that may be a slightly different approach. Maybe combination. >> Okay. Perfect. I'm glad you said that in case it goes whatever direction it goes, >>
1 depends on what you're bringing. >> So, what we're doing is in case you're just joining us, we want you to volunteer anything that you need help with and then we'll we'll just quickly vote on like who we'd like to who has the most intriguing problem for Dr. D. Martin to put his brain on. Whenever there are multiple stories, narratives, I try to prioritize it. So narrow it down. We'll do I'm not going to do them all. We're going to narrow down what is the highest priority issue out of all of those things that you nared. What is the highest priority issue that you want to address? >> The the the fear of being someone's going to come at me if I if if I shine too bright. >> Okay. When you say coming at me, what does that mean to you? What does that conjure up? By the way, you can never have fear of the unknown. >> You can only have fear of the content your mind is imagining. >> Mhm. >> So, what is your mind imagining when you have that confronting you? um that someone is going to defame me, is going to um undermine me, go out of their way to destroy what I've built, it's it's already happened. >> Okay. And out of all the ones that have happened that this is reminding you of because the future is anticipated, but the things that are real that you've experienced, which one of those is the highest priority thing that you remember that was most painful? >> Um, I had a friend who was well, there's many, but the most the one that was really devastating is a friend of mine was jealous of my success. So, she undermined my marriage. And then >> what specifically did she do? Because undermining marriage is vague. What did she do that you projected? She undermined my marriage. >> She betrayed a confidence. I wasn't ready to tell my husband something and she >> So something you shared with her. >> Yes. >> She shared with your husband. >> Yes. >> Which you felt started to undermine the dynamic. >> Yes. >> Okay. Even though you were obviously sharing with her, there was some things in the dynamic that were concerning anyway. >> Yes. So, she was revealing something you unconsciously desired. >> I was >> You wouldn't have said it to her. >> Okay, I'm going to I'm going to be so so transparent. I had an affair and I felt really bad about it and I I was I was talking to her about how I should go about, you know, telling my husband and because she was jealous of the relationship and she had tried to >> she wanted him. >> She No, she tried to seduce the person I had the affair with and because she was rejected, >> she um >> want to bring you down. >> Yes. >> Right. and she did it public very publicly. >> So her name is >> Deborah. >> Deborah. >> Okay. So now I'm gonna start doing the >> Here goes the method. Thanks for doing this. By the way, >> um let's take Deborah as the individual we're going to do the work on because I can just do so much in such a circle. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What specific trait, action or inaction, do you perceive Deborah did that you disliked and despised and resented most? Let's narrow it down so it's not a narrative. It's a specific act that she did that you judged. >> She literally said to me, \"It's not fair that you have the life that you have and I don't have what you have.\" So that didn't you made a claim that you didn't undermine your marriage. So that by itself would not undermine your marriage. >> No. >> So what did are you upset because of that or you upset because of what she said to your husband? >> She told him that I was >> So which one is the one you resenting? >> Probably that one that she told him. >> Okay, then let's get to that. >> Okay. >> Because otherwise you're just >> doing narrative. People love to share their narratives, but narratives don't get you anywhere. >> Really, even though therapists like you to think so, they're slow. I'm not interested. I'm interested in narrowing down what the issue is. >> Yeah. >> So, what specific did you actually perceive her or was it hearsay that she told your husband? >> He told me she told him. >> So, it's hearsay. >> Somebody told you that she told >> Yeah. But you didn't actually perceive it. >> When you say perceive it, what do you mean? >> You didn't actually see her do this. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. >> So, we don't even know for a fact other than what your husband said that that's what happened. >> Okay. >> So, your husband claimed that she said the story, which is evidence, but you never saw her do it. >> I never saw her specifically or heard her do it. No. So you did not have angry at her until you found out that she he made a statement. >> Yes. And other people. But Yes. >> So other people told you that she had said that. >> Other people told me that she had bragged to them that this is what she was going to do and then Yeah. >> Okay. So are you upset with the idea that she bragged about what she was going to do? The idea that your husband stated that she said it? I think it was the that she would was bragging about publicly taking me down. >> Okay. So, you're the the highest priority thing that you judged in her was that she bragged about taking you down and we have hearsay that she confronted and told your husband. >> Correct. >> Okay. Let's work with that one for a second because sometimes we have a convoluted series of things and we have to kind of narrow down what the issue is. >> I love your questions >> and sometimes it's it's uh hearsay >> and I don't like working with hearsay. I like working with something factual that you perceive so we have something tangible. Now, the roughest part. There's a quote in Romans 2:1 from the New Testament that whatever we judge in others, we're doing the same thing. >> Interesting. >> So, let's define what she did again. She bragged about taking you down and then told your husband. >> Mhm. >> Told somebody that something you didn't want her to tell. So now let's go to a moment in your life where you bragged about taking somebody down and told somebody exactly what you're seeing in her. Find out where it is. Now I've done this on about 150,000 people and every time people say I can't think of any. I don't know. I don't know. None of that works with me. We're going to be accountable here in order we get a result. So let's not think of where we I don't know. I can't remember. No, >> find out where we done it because we only judge people on the outside >> that we resent >> for representations of parts of ourselves that we're ashamed of in ourselves >> that we don't want to look at. Yeah. >> So, let's go. Go to a moment where and when you perceive yourself displaying or demonstrating the same behavior where you bragged about taking somebody down and negating them and because of jealousy and you actually told somebody to try to undermine them. The the earliest one I can think of and the only one I can think of is is my mother. >> Okay. And it's the same behavior. It's got to be the same action. >> I did it I took her down publicly. >> Okay. Because the only reason somebody is drawn into your life >> is because we have a shame inside. We dissociate from it. We get proud. Try to >> judge other people for what we're actually hiding inside. And we don't want to face that. that we've done that and we're still carrying a hurt and a shame about doing that to the mom. >> Yeah. >> So, and you said what about your mom publicly that undermined and got back to her? >> I don't remember what I said specifically. It was just there was a group of people in >> You can't have shame without their memory of it. >> I was just making fun of her >> about >> um I don't remember what I said. What did she do that you wanted to make shame of her or not do? >> Did she m she made a mistake >> of >> probably a lie she told. >> Okay. So, she made a lie in your mind and you didn't like the repercussions of that and you were trying to bring her down and humble her. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Go. So, go to the moment when you did that. >> You there? when you actually said the thing. >> Okay. Where were you at that moment? >> I was in Chicago in our apartment and there was a group of people and a man told me to stop. >> Okay. And when when was this? >> I was probably about 20 years old, 1920. >> Okay. The reason I'm asking those is uh the amygdala which is a subcortical nucle in the brain assigns veency to stimuli and experiences that we have and it assigns veilency to the hippocampus which is a little seahorse shaped structure and it is the source or storage place of episodic memories that have a time a place a direction a location and a distance. So if I narrow it down, I go into the hippocampus and I access that memory and and that's where we're storing shame or we're storing our own stuff. So you're there at that moment. >> Mhm. >> And who specifically did you tell? >> There are about four people there. >> So you then and >> I was entertaining them with the story. >> Okay. And did your mom know any of these people? >> Yes. So then you you said things behind her back. >> No, in front of her. >> In front of her. Okay. That she felt humbled by. And you kind of did that because she had lied. And so you did it as kind of a >> payback. >> Payback. >> Okay. So in that moment, can you see you did the same thing as this lady did? >> Yes. >> Great. Now, uh, and they all perceived you did this and your mom. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Great. Go to the next moment. where and when you've done the same behavior again. >> Oh, this is icky. Um, I was working I was I don't want to say where uh but I was working in a corporate situation and somebody had um sexually harassed me and there was this opportunity for me to um >> disclose. No, no, actually, no. Um, I did disclose it to my boss. I went through the proper channels and then when this guy got promoted, he demoted me. So, um, there was new management that came in. And >> I don't need the story. I just need >> I'm trying just trying to >> people like to want to run their story as a dodging mechanism. I just want the answer. I ask >> go to the moment where and when you did it again and where did you do exactly that? try to bring somebody down, say something to somebody to try to undermine them, somebody that could get back and affect their life. >> I guess it was this situation where he was being bered by our boss and I I took glee in that. >> So that's not the act the question I'm asking. Okay. Where did you do what this lady had done to you? >> Said things behind to somebody and tried to bring you down. Where did you do that? You tried to bring him down. >> No, I was just somebody else did, but I was I I talked about how he had it coming. So, I don't know if that's the same thing. >> So, who did you say that to? >> My team. >> So, you spoke to the team and kind of let them know some of these things as a way of kind of diminishing him. >> And these are people that knew him. Yes. >> Or knew of him. >> Yes. >>
1 So in that case, did you do the same thing that lady did in that moment? >> It's not exactly the same. Well, yes, I did. I took glee in some somebody >> to bring somebody down and to go behind and say things about them. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Mhm. >> So is that the same? >> I think so. >> Maybe not the same magnitude, but the same. >> Yeah. It's not. Yeah. >> Great. That's number two. Go to number three. Um >> when you're when you're owning reflections, this is called reflective awareness and transparency. We usually go all the way for till 20 examples are done until there's an absolute certainty that what you perceive in them, you have because as long as you're too proud to admit what you see in them, uh you're going to self-righteously project your values onto them and condemn them and hide your own shame and cover it up with the pride. And the amigdula likes to hold on to pride and hold on to fantasies about how people are supposed to live in our values. So that's why I'm going to go go again because whatever you perceive this person doing, you've done to the same degree. And I've been doing that for about 41 years and never had anybody that couldn't find it if they just kept looking. So let's go to number three. >> Okay. And now they're coming. >> That's right. They're there. >> Um >> that's why we keep attracting whatever we condemn. >> Okay. Um yeah, the next situation I was uh I was a board chair person and this person had been disrespectful and so I >> was interested in where you did it. I don't need the narrative and story. I just need to know where you did it. >> Um I made sure that that everyone on the committee knew what this person had done prior >> and you wanted to do that to kind of bring them down from their pride and arrogance and put up >> Yeah. And you told people that you know could affect him. >> Yes. >> So you did that's the third example of where you've done that. >> Yeah. >> Let's go to four. >> Well, these are all different time. I'm zigzag >> one at a time. >> No, but I'm just saying it doesn't matter if they're chronological, right? >> Doesn't matter where it is. >> But just one at a time. Just think of one because you think of 15 of them, you can't you won't process. Well, just one. >> Probably when my >> Not probably. >> Oh, okay. Um, when my stepfather was arrested. Um, okay. You don't want the story. Okay. So, he was a doctor and >> I don't need the story. I just need to know what where you did something and said something to bring somebody down and went behind their back or told people that could affect them. >> I don't think this one counts because it was so public. >> It was public. >> Yeah. It was on the news and everything. So, >> yeah. But where did you tell somebody that led to bringing to try to bring somebody down and people found out about it? If it went public, then that's even a bigger issue. >> No, this doesn't apply. Sorry. >> You understand the line of questioning from Dr. D. Martini, right? >> Yes. >> He's asking you for actions that you took where you >> where you did the same thing this lady did to you. I guess I just told people what he did and how how it >> And did some of that get back to people that could affect him? >> I don't know. I I honestly don't know. >> Did he get to the police that could affect him? >> What >> did he get to the police that affected him? >> No, they he had already been arrested. >> Okay. So, did you do were you attempting to bring him and lower him and expose him? Um I think to some >> cuz he got away with something. >> No, he didn't get away with it. >> No, but you thought he had gone away got away with something. >> He was trying to get away with it. >> And were you trying to bring that down? >> Um I think that to undermine any attempt for him to redeem himself and because he was making excuses. Yes. >> Okay. Were you doing the same thing the lady was you thought the lady was doing to you? >> Yes. >> Okay. We got four. One more. Just because of time. >> You got it. >> Okay. >> You're lucky we're not going to 20. >> Oh my god. Probably my last. No, probably. Okay. >> Go to a moment where you did the same behavior as she did again. Another moment in your life where you've done that where you've attempted to you were partly jealous. You wanted to bring the person down. You felt that it was unfair. So you wanted to bring them down and you exposed and said things about them behind that affected them. >> Um it was a former partner and I said some things to some people who w
1ould have been able to affect whether he got rehired in in the sit situation. >> Okay. And in that moment you can see who you shared it with. you can remember where it was and when it was you there. >> So in those five examples, would you acknowledge that those five examples are different variations but of the same thing? >> Yep. >> Okay. Fantastic. I'll I may come back to those, but just because of time, >> I'm going to go on to my second little question. Go to the moment where and when you perceived that she did this behavior and tried to undermine you and tried to do something. Go to the moment when you first perceived it. The actual moment you perceived she did that and you were angry. >> Okay. >> Is this when he told you and spoke to you? Mhm. >> So go to the moment when he began to speak about it and now you resented her for exposing something you said even though you didn't see her do it. You had some evidence from him. Go to the moment you felt resentful to her at that moment and let me know when you're there. The moment your husband speaking up about it and now you're aware that she did. >> Okay. I'm there. >> You're there. Great. >> How did that benefit you at that moment? You have spiritual benefits, intellectual benefits, business benefits, financial benefits, family, social physical. How did it benefit you in your career? >> It didn't. >> I don't ask questions. I don't have answers. >> Oh. >> How did it help you in your career? >> Everything has both advantages and disadvantages. If you choose to see the disadvantage, you become a victim of history. If you look at the advantages. So, how did it benefit you in your career? >> You were somehow unfulfilled in the relationship. >> Yeah. I I was able to come out from behind the his shadow. >> Say that. Say that because you're going to have a tear when you say it. Say it. >> I was able to come out from behind his shadow. >> Say it again. >> I was able to come out from behind his shadow. >> Okay. And you had been sitting in his shadow and you wanted out of his shadow and you were not and that's when you had the fling. You had somebody that was giving you acknowledgement. >> Yeah. >> And you were living in a shadow >> instead of on the shoulders and equals. >> It made me visible when I felt invisible. >> Exactly. Okay. So, u you were unfulfilled. That's why you were looking for somebody to try to bring in fulfillment. Anything you're not willing to do with your mate, you got to be willing to delegate. If the man's not doing something that's fulfilling your needs, then you'll find somebody else to fill those needs. Pretty normal. >> So, you got out from under the shadow. And how did that help your career? >> Um, >> repositioned yourself with your power. >> Yeah. >> Can you see you were hoping for that, wanting that? >> Mhm. >> So, can you see that the lady actually catalyzed you to be able to go and do what you want to do? >> Yeah. >> Did you ever give her a percentage of the income that you earned? No. >> As a as a consultant? >> No. >> Okay. How did it help you intellectually? What did you learn as a result of him speaking up, saying that? What did you learn that was valuable in your life? >> I learned to that it wasn't my job to sacrifice for somebody else's happiness. >> Okay. So anytime you infatuate with somebody and put them on a pedestal, you'll minimize yourself and inject some of their values into your life and try to live in their values, which is futile. >> It's non-sustainable futility. And you had some infatuation with the man initially, apparently. >> So um you learned that lesson. What's that worth? >> Oh, put a dollar value on that. >> Oh my god. At least a couple million. >> Okay. But you never gave any of that to the girl, the lady that helped catalyze that freedom and that lesson. >> No. >> Okay. Because somehow we don't see that people are not in in our way, they're actually on our way, their actions. How did it help you actually financially when he go back to the moment when he said what he said and it led to the relationship breaking down which is actually a liberty to you. But we don't always want to admit that. And um how did that actually help you financially and put some real dollars on that? >> Well, in the settlement, I got money. >> Okay. And did you invest that? >> Yes. >> And is that giving you compounding passive income? >> It was no longer, but yeah, I did. >> So, you then chose to use it and put it into a house or something? >> Yes. Okay. >> Um a lifestyle instead of investment. Well, it was a home. Yeah. >> Yeah. But a lifestyle. >> Yeah. >> That's not just an investment. Passive income is an investment. A lifestyle is a house. >> Yes. >> So, that was your choice. But actually, the money which was an amount could have been put into assets. >>
1 Well, I did I did some of that, too. I put it in my kids college. >> Yeah. Just I'll come back to this. Okay. >> So, it helped you financially because you got a house >> and you had a desire for a house. Did you have a desire to have a house? >> I wanted to live somewhere. Yeah. I mean, but I didn't. >> But instead of renting and investing the difference, you you chose to have a house. Did you want a house? >> Yes. >> So, did she help catalyze you getting your own house? >> Yes. >> And do you now designed it and organize it the way you want? >> Yes. >> Instead of his or yours together? >> Yes. >> So, you got financial remuneration. You got liberated intellectually and some things about not subordinating to other people which is a basic reclaiming of your own power and you also got um a catalyst into driven back into your career. >> Mhm. >> And did you go more into your career with more gusto? >> Yes. >> And did that give you some advantages in your career? >> Yes. >> But you didn't thank her for that? >> No. >> Okay. And how did it help you in social circles? Did you screen out people that were not really engaged in your your long-term mission? >> Yes. >> And did you then prioritize and select people that were more in more in line with your mission? >> Yes. >> So, didn't you were living in the shadows through those other people through your husband and now you've shed those? >> Yes. >> That you thought were friends? >> Yes. >> That were friends to him. >> And I didn't thank her for that either. No. But now you're now selective with people that are more engaged in what you're up to. >> Yes. >> And understand your mission. >> Yes. >> What's that worth? >> Oh my god. A life. >> So she's helped you have your life back, your finances back, the house if you want, your career engagement, and um you've learned a great deal about not living in subordination to anybody else. >> Correct. >> Nobody's worth putting on pedestals or pits, but they're worth putting in hearts. So, now let's go and look at how did it help you physically. >> I got in great shape. >> Did you get workout? Yeah. >> Back on the back on the market. >> Well, not right away, but yes. >> Well, but you went back into shape because you know that fitness is and looks is one of the key elements for dynamics. >> Well, it's my self-image, you know. >> Okay. So, then you got to develop your self-image. So, we can add that as another benefit. >> Yes. >> So, you got a self-image out of it. You got back in shape. You got some cash flow out of it. Got a house. >> Um, how did it help your family? Your You have children. >> Yeah. >> How did it help the children? >> You know, that doesn't work with me. >> How did it help the children? >> I know. Um, >> that's what I feel guilty about. My dad, >> I'm going to I'm going to dissolve that. How did it help the children? You only feel guilty when you assume you did an act that caused more pain and pleasure to somebody in the future from the in the past, pardon me. If you see the benefits to them, that's gone. So otherwise, you'll sacrifice and subordinate to her pleasing her, >> right? Um what you're doing. >> I was more present and probably not probably I was more present. I was a better parent. >> Say that again. >> I was more present and a better parent. Okay. So then this lady by her saying what she did helped you in the dynamic with your children. >> Yes. >> Be more present. >> Yes. >> What's another benefit to your children? You have two children. One >> um Well, one from that marriage. >> One from that marriage. So that's when you're addressing. How else did it help her? It's a her, right? >> Mhm. >> How else did it help her when this lady did that? >> Yeah. Um, I think because of the different moving around that we did, she blossomed as >> So your daughter got to blossom. >> She became more independent probably. >> Mhm. >> And you got to be more present with her. >> Mhm. >> So what did you think you did that was guilt generating? You just didn't see the benefits. >> Uh that you know her father wasn't in the same house. >> When the father wasn't there, who became the new father figure? Nothing's ever missing. It just changes form. >> So, who became the new father figure? >>
1 Um, >> mentors, coaches, best friends, older men. >> Yeah. >> What's the benefit of them becoming the father figure instead of him? >> They were more present for her. >> So, by by what happened, this lady catalyzed it so she could do it. Now, when your husband left, did he leave or did you leave? >> I left. >> Okay, you left. who became the new woman in his life that he starts to train again. A new one that he gets to train. >> Um, how specific do you want me to be? >> There's a series. >> What >> is there a series of them? >> No, it's somebody who almost has my same name and looked like >> because he's now in the next training program. He's teaching the next training program and she's going to learn the lesson and get to grow some more, too. So what what's uh how did it help you in your spiritual path having this lady go back it's got to go back to the lady I know >> saying what she's saying how did it help you spiritually in your spiritual awareness >> whatever whatever inspires you as your spiritual path what exactly how did it >> help unfold an inspiration for you >> bigger vision possibilities ities. New >> new possibilities. Seeing myself as a whole being. Seeing myself as a whole being. >> Say that again. >> Seeing myself as a whole being. >> What's What's that? What's the value of that? >> It's uh >> Isn't that what authenticity is? >> What's that? >> Isn't that what authenticity is? >> Yes. We sometimes exaggerate ourselves or minimize ourselves >> and we have these impostor fragments the parts and when we integrate them we get to be authentic and whole and that's individually as a whole. Individual means undivided. You're not a persona mask. You're an individual whole. So you got to grow spiritually intellectually mentally. In other words, um, socially, financially, your business, what is it you're upset about on this? >> That's the problem, right? >> What's what's what are you judging her for that you haven't done? And by the way, when you've done this, it's also catalyzed greatness in other people, but you not may not have ever seen it. >> Yeah. >> You may have felt bad that you did it, but the reality is that everybody gets to grow in these dynamics. If they don't grow, it's because not because of what happened. It's because they've chosen not to see the blessings in. They're making themselves victims of history, not masters of destiny. I'm just helping you be accountable to see that you're actually on track. The lady was a perfect catalyst to catalyze something that you were contemplating in y
1our mind about getting out of that marriage. >> Mhm. But you didn't have the courage to do that because you didn't want to have the failing the responses from people of judging you for jumping out of your marriage. And you had to have to have the perfect person to come in and help you catalyze it. >> Someone to blame, >> someone to to use as a scapegoat because you didn't want to be the one that said, \"I'm breaking up my marriage because of an injected value from probably a mom or somebody else in your life.\" Am I hitting it? >> Oh, yeah. >> So, what's another benefit of this whole thing happening? besides us having the time to get to meet today. >> Yeah. And thank you. Um, well, I just live in my truth now. >> What's that worth? >> You can't put a price on that. Now, I'm going to ask you another wild question. At the moment, go to the actual moment that he said this again. And he said that she told him about these things. What exactly did he say that she said or what did you believe at the moment he disclosed what he did that she had done? >> What did he actually say? >> Yeah. >> He asked me point blank if I was having an affair >> and I said yes. >> Okay. And then he said, \"Because Deborah called me and told me.\" >> Okay. So because Deborah told him, he then was he intuitive and already kind of wondering. No. So he's a naive focus on his work or something. It was >> only working. >> Okay. >> Um you know there's a there's a price for every marriage, every relationship. They may be highly intelligent but they know it all. They may be hardworking but they're hardly there. They may be great sense of humor, but it's the same story. You never get a pleasure without a pain. There's always a pair of opposites like a magnet. So that is wise to not go after a idea in a relationship that I'm going to get a pleasure without a pain. That's not going to happen. Every every relationship's got something. It's a pecadillo as they call it. >> Yeah, that's a word I haven't heard in a while. >> Now go to that moment when he said that and you felt in a sense that that's when you judged her. she was saying something derogatory about you that you didn't want anybody to do. What would be the opposite behavior of that? If somebody is saying something derogatory about you to somebody and and exposing something, what would be the opposite? Somebody holding a secret back and keeping a secret about you. Would that be an opposite? >> Yeah. At the moment when she was he he declared that she had disclosed that information. Who is doing exactly the opposite to you at that moment? Keeping a big secret and loyal to you at that moment. Because anytime you are infatuated with a loyal person, you have to have somebody that behind your scenes does the opposite. Betrays. You never attract a betrayal unless you're addicted to a loyal. Who were you addicted to that was loyal to you that you trusted and kept secrets to at the moment she he spoke? >> Who else did you tell that you knew you could trust? >> That you you knew was loyal to you would not say a word? >> My therapist. >> Ah. Were you highly involved in your therapist at the time? >> She she was helping me. Yeah. But you were engaging in her and telling her all your stuff and she couldn't disclose it. >> Correct. >> Because anytime you get infatuated or like somebody that you can disclose your narrative story to that can't say anything or undermine that, you attract a betrayer to break your addiction to that because you don't grow in that. That keeps you stuck. >> Yep. So you get the person over here to make sure that you actually break through the stuff that you're judging in yourself. >> So just know that your dependency on her at the time is part of the reason why this also catalyzes because otherwise you're dependent on her and now you're the just like you were infatuate and playing underdog to the man. You were doing that to the to the therapist. And as long as you're underdog to the therapist, you're going to somebody to break your addiction. Anytime you infatuate with somebody and become dependent on them and fear the loss of somebody, you attract somebody comes in there to break that addiction. >> That makes perfect sense >>
1 to strengthen that. Make sense? >> Absolutely. >> Now, I'm going to ask you another wild question and reverse question. >> Okay? >> Go to the moment when you found out she did it. if she never told him that and never tried to bring you down and did what you hope she would have done. Kind of the fantasy because you only resent somebody because they don't match the fantasy of the opposite that you hold on to. So if she had never told him and was in never putting you down and trying to take you down and supported you like your therapist, what would have been the drawback to your life today? >> I would have been still I was stuck. stuck. >> Did you ever thank her for helping you get unstuck? >> No. >> Can you see you've matured and grown quite extensively since this moment? >> Oh, yeah. >> But you never thanked her. Right now, her name is Deborah, right? Right now, if Deborah was sitting in front of you, what would you tell her? >> I probably would apologize. >> Apologize for what? What did you think you did to her that would you need apologies? Apologies assume that you did something that caused pain to her. >> I guess I didn't thank her. Thank her for >> what what did you think you need to apologize for? What did you think you did that you >> because of all of the >> You withdrew from a friend. >> What >> did you withdraw from a friend? >> Oh, yeah. I withdrew and I um I just harbored resentment. >> Good. How did that help her? >> By harboring resentment. How did it help her? >> How did it help her? Whenever we get somebody that's resenting us and withdrawing from us, we also get people that come close to us that infatuate with us. So, who had her on a pedestal infatuate and got closer to her as you were withdrawing from her and resenting her? >> Oh, she she got married. >> What if you found out that you contributed to her having a man that supported her at that time? That would be >> Wouldn't she a friend? Wouldn't she want her to find a man she wanted? >> Absolutely. >> Would you feel guilty about that? >> No. >> What would you want to tell her now? You imagine her in front of you. >> I would I would tell her that I'm really happy that she's happy and she has a child and she has a good marriage and I think I mean I think >> Do you think that maybe the dynamic that happened between you made that possible? >> Catalyzed part of that. Yeah. >> Did you ever thank yourself? >> No. >> Sometimes we don't see the hidden order that's going on in our life and it doesn't match the stories and narratives and the moral hypocrisies about how life's supposed to be and then we judge it all instead of miss out and instead of seeing the magnificence that's actually occurring. So right now what would you say to her about her saying the thing to husband? What would you say to her? You've got a lot of benefits out of it. You want her to live the rest of her life not knowing what you gained from that? >> Oh, I probably would I would tell her that I there were a lot of benefits that came out of that. It was it was hard. And >> what was what was hard? >> Go, you know, going through it. I mean, >> what what aspect of it was hard? >> Uh the breaking apart of everything, you know. >> What was what was easy about that? I felt relieved. >> So why was that hard? >> You had you had to adjust and face the truth about what was happening. >> I had to face my shame about not stepping up and taking accountability when I was feeling hurt. So I I probably created a situation where somebody could hurt me more. So I >> What? What? What? What did you What Who who and what hurt you? >> The husband. >> Yeah. I just >> What did he do specifically to hurt? I'm now going off on another little chart. >> Um he dis disengaged. >> Okay. What did you do to make sure he disengaged? People only disengage when they're not getting their values met. If I'm talking to somebody and I'm meeting their values and needs, they're totally engaged. If they disengage, it means somehow they're not getting what they want in a dynamic or in conversation with you. >> What were you doing to help him make sure he was disengaged? >> Well, clearly I'm not ready to accept that because I'm I >> No, that that no that's not not works here. >> Yeah. >> Was it that you were frustrated because he was working? >> Yeah, he was. and you didn't honor his work. That was one of his highest values. >> Mhm. >> Everybody lives according to their hierarchy of their values. >> They make decisions accordingly. Whatever will give them the greatest value. If somebody they're with is not understanding what their highe
1st value is and is in their minds trying to get them away from what that highest value is, they withdraw. How has him working so extensively helped you when during the time you're with him and he was working so extensively? How did that benefit you? Oh, >> provide gave us a a nice life. It gave us >> Is that also what gave you your house afterwards? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And during that time when he was working so hard. Where did you put your energies? Children. >> I was helping him with his business and raising my our daughter. Yeah. >> Okay. So you were putting energy in the daughter and also >> in the business. Yeah. >> And were you getting paid for that? >> So you're just sacrificing and and helping him in his business and assuming he was going to take care of things which he eventually did. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So you wouldn't have done it unless there was some sort of in your perception advantage over disadvantage of doing it because nobody moves a muscle without an advantage over a disadvantage. So what advantages are you getting out of taking care of him and doing that for him? >> What what was the advantage? >> Yeah. You wouldn't have done it if there wasn't advantage. you would have withdrawn. >> You know, I just think I repeated the cycle that I grew up in. >> That didn't answer the question. What's the advantage you got consciously? >> Probably being a victim. >> No, that's No, that's not the benefit. That's a story. Okay. >> What's the benefit you got out of working and helping him in his business? What was your hidden agenda? >> Nobody moves a muscle with automotive. >> Oh, I I wanted him to succeed. >> For what reason for you? lifestyle, >> long-term objective. >> Long-term objective. >> What was the hidden agenda? >> Oh, the hidden agenda. >> You want to make sure you got to a certain level. So, you got enough to be able to when you when you want to have their affair and divorce them. You got something? >> Oh, no. >> You sure? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Then go go to what was the real objective there? Nobody is altruistic. >> Yeah. >> They have a hidden agenda or compensation for guilt and shame in the past when they're doing altruistic acts. >> Okay. I think I'm getting lost in all the words, but I just I wanted to prove my value to him. Ah. And did you? >> I thought I didn't. But >> did you feel that you were on a underdog position? You had to be. All the signs are showing it. >> Yeah. >> So, you wanted to make sure that you contributed to him because you felt like you were getting a good deal. >> I needed to feel valued >> by him. >> By him. And >> so you didn't feel you were being valued from him? Who had you on a pedestal that overvalued you? You never get undervalued without overvalued. So who overvalued you at the time? >> Who had you on a pedestal? >> Well, he did. >> Okay. That's confusing because you just said I need to prove a value to him and you're saying he overvalued you. Where that's contradict. >> He did and then it then it waned and so I was trying to earn. >> When it waned and he wasn't valuing you, who picked up that part part who started valuing you? Besides your therapist, >> my daughter. >> Ah, so in the family dynamic, she started putting a value on you as he was waning. >> Okay. What was the benefit of her doing it, not him? You got to feel more like a a decent mother because you came back and said that you wanted to contribute more and be even a greater mother. >> Yeah. >> So you got the benefit of being acknowledged as a mother by the daughter during a time when he waned. >> Yeah. We had a very good relation. What if you found out that there's always a balance of support and challenge, praise and reprimand that's conserved through life, and it's just morphing and changing forms through people. And when he withdraws, somebody else picks it up. >> And when he's doing it, you become addicted and subordinate to him. >> And you began to grow and your daughter started supporting. You just started gaining some independence. >> Can you see that happened? >> Yep. So, can you see that that her doing it was lifting you up and making you stand more as an equal, which was leveling the playing field, and he was used to you being the underdog, and all of a sudden, you're now not playing there, and he's withdrawn and trying to find somebody else to give him the attention. >> Yeah, I can see that now. >> So, right now, then when he devalued you like that, what was the benefit to you? You started your independence. When somebody praises you, you be
1come juvenile dependent. When somebody criticizes you and challenges you, you become precociously independent. If he hadn't done that, you would have been trapped. >> I would have felt like I couldn't rise above him because then I would lose him. Oh my god. Yeah. >> You only fear the loss of things you got above you. >> You don't fear the loss of things you go below you. One's prey, one's predator. So right now, what did he do or she do that's not part of the journey that was needed? It all worked out >> and and >> but there is something I would have changed. >> What would you have changed? >> I would have put my foot down because my career was going great in New York and I wouldn't have left. I would have insisted we stayed. >> So you got infatuated with a guy and sacrificed your career for a fantasy guy. So you're not probably going to do that, are you? You probably learned a lesson. >> Yes. >> So he taught you the value of that. >> Correct. >> Because you thought that you needed a man for your identity. I just didn't want to do things alone. I wanted to, you know, I wanted a partner. >> So, while you're with a guy that's withdrawn from you, >> you're alone. >> Not really. I'm alone anyway. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um alone and non alone are always balanced in life. There's a part of the pair of opposites that just change form and morph again. >> Yeah. >> So, right now, uh what would you change different? >> It would have been nice to have that feeling. >> What feeling? the the feeling that I I was enough, you know, >> and who was when he was not doing it, the daughter was doing it. >> Yeah. >> And who else was doing it besides a daughter because they're balanced. >> For 25 years, I've been demonstrating in people's lives that you can't get one without the other because of the law of contrast. >> You can't judge something without its equal and opposite contrast being there to be able to perceive. So if somebody's criticizing, there's a praiser. You don't see it. You run the story. I'm a victim of criticism. I'm a victim all my life. You don't get anywhere that way. When you see both sides, you realize that I had a transformation of who was supporting and challenging me throughout my whole life. >> Yes. >> That's mastery. So, who was praising you besides your daughter at the time and had you kind of on a pedestal and made you important? Want to include you in his in the life? >> Friends. >> Yeah. My friends, >> social circles and friends. social circles. I was taking a course at the time and learning a new skill >> and those people and the teachers and people on that. >> So, can you see that him doing that work and withdrawing allowed you to get the support from those people >> and the daughter? >> Correct. >> But wasn't that necessary for the next step? >> Was it necessary for the next step? >> All that education and every all that information, wasn't that part of your network and team and knowledge you needed to go the next step? >> Correct. Yeah. So, where are you not been on track? >> I've been on track. >> So, what's it like to realize you've been on track the whole time? There hasn't been an error in this whole thing. >> I can let all this crap go the illusion go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, right now when you look at your your husband, can you see he played a perfect job in this? Your daughter played a role. Deborah played a role. So, if Deborah's sitting in front of you again, what do you want to tell Deborah right now? >> Thank you, Deborah. >> What do you want to say to her? I said, \"Thank you, Deborah.\" >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Now, is that a little lighter than you started? >> Oh, hell yeah. >> Is the narrative that you had completely looked differently? >> Yes. >> Okay. Now, we've only did about two or three little columns out of the the exercise. There's 80 columns in it. >> Okay. So, we could just keep going with it. >> Yeah. >> But we're getting >> I don't think she can handle it. >> We're getting somewhere. By the way, >> no, I'm going to go journal about this. >> Okay. Just know that any of the stories that you've had in your life, I I went through this, I had this, and as I challenged childhood and all that stuff, it's all [Â __Â ] >> Okay? >>
1 I I you may not believe me, but if I sat with you for a period of time and we narrowed it down one by one, you would be in tears of gratitude for what happened in your life, and then you'd be liberated from the story that you've run. That we run our illusions till we're ready for the truth. The truth kind of sets us free from the stories. We use the stories because of all the moral hypocrisies. We get indoctrinated about how people are supposed to be instead of seeing how magnificent they are in the journey. >> Somebody once asked me if I had if there was a year that I would eliminate, you know, in my life, which one would it be? And and I, you know, just like Queen Elizabeth said, she had the Anna's horribulous. I said, you know, 2005, but I wouldn't do it because then I wouldn't have met you, that person, you know. >> Well, anything you can't say thank you for is your baggage. >> Yeah. >> Anything you can say thank you for is your fuel. >> Yeah. >> So, you you can decide to be victim of history because you're comparing current reality to a fantasy and how it should have been, would have been, could have been. Or you can be a master of destiny to be able to see through and navigate it and realize there's nothing that I or other people did that's not part of the journey that was needed to help me move forward. >> Yep. >> Because you said things were being held back, but I haven't heard anything that's really holding you back. >> Just me. >> Sounds like you've been growing and doing and expanding in the areas that are important to you. >> Yes. >> But we can run that narrative sometimes. >> Sometimes we compare ourselves to other people. Anytime you compare yourself to somebody else and put them above you, you're going to inject their values. You're going to try to envy and imitate them, as Emerson said, which is futile and a form of suicide. And you'll eventually learn the hard way that that's futile and nonsustainable. >> Yeah. >> And eventually you get the symptoms of that to wake you up to not put people on pedestals. Nobody's worth putting on pedestals. There's no guru out there. There's no teacher out there. There's no saint out there. There's human beings out there. I've met enough gurus out there that people think are all somehow one-sided or enlightened or whatever. No, they're just human beings. We're all just human beings and we're not worth putting on pedestal piss. We're worth putting in hearts. And now you've got Deborah more in y
1our heart than when we started. That's our objective. >> Yeah. And that's I didn't realize how how clung on to that I was because I was still harboring. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's why I'm not interested in your story because the story is anytime you have an emotional story, you have incomplete information. Yes. Anytime you have thank you, I love you. Got we got we're getting somewhere. >> No. >> Thank you. >> So that's at least a start. >> Round of applause, everybody. Wow. >> Thank you to everybody your patience. Thanks for doing that. >> How much time was that? 40 minutes. >> 45. >> Yeah, about 45. I think >> 40 45 minutes. I I have my own reflections on this and I could not help but to feel some of the feelings that she was sharing and you know having my own kind of replaying in my life. What is it about our human nature that we tend to focus on the negative and not the positive because if you keep doing this it seems like we're all exactly where we need to be and we learn the moment we appreciate all that's happened. When I turned 18 years old, I I was living in Hawaii as a big wave rider surfer and I left there and I came to Texas to visit my parents. So I left home at a young age, 13. My parents saw that I wanted to go and learn how to read and go back and try to learn again. So I was inspired by Paul Bragg who helped me believe that maybe someday I could be intelligent because I was told I would never be able to read, write, communicate, never amount of thing to go very far in life when I was first grade and I end up not I didn't read till I was 18. So I got inspired and I started back and my parents uh bought a set of books a little triplet book by Norman Mincson Peele the power of positive thinking. So, I read this book and I thought, I need to be more positive. And I was reading it with a dictionary because my vocabulary was limited. But I tried and tried and tried and tried to be positive, positive, positive, positive. But no matter what I did, I' I'd falter. I'd have some judgment on myself or on somebody else or whatever. And I thought, what am I doing wrong? And so, I got a whole collection of self-help books thinking I was going to eventually get there to a positive pole of a magnet without the other pole. And no matter what I did, I kept faltering. I'd have negative thoughts. So I said, \"Well, maybe I need to go live to the seminar.\" So it starting at age 20, I started attending seminars. I went to a live seminar with Dorma Vincent Appeal. He stood on stage and he says, \"You probably know me as the father of positive thinking. But I must confess before you today that I am one of the most negative thinking people you've ever met. And the reason I wrote the books on positive thinking is to help balance out my negativity.\" >> And I was the only one plotting. Everybody else was like shocked and I was applauding. And then I went to, you know, I went to the national speakers and I met Earl Nightingale and his brother and I met W. Clement Stone and I met, you know, Tremendous Jones and Jim Ran and all these speakers, right? And I got to interact with them and hang out with them and find out about their lives and stuff. And uh, as I was emerging from 18 year olds, I wanted to be a teacher. And so I was started my teaching career. I got to meet those people and every one of them had both positive and negative and so I thought why are we teaching something nobody's living and I remember Paul Direct the Nobel Prize winner he wrote a book in 1947 called the principles of quantum mechanics and he said um it's not that we don't know so much it's we know so much that himself we're taught misinformation political and theological systems like to be in in the guilt control, the the guilt producing control business. They love to create a moral hypocrisy that nobody can live by so you can feel ashamed so they can control you with the fantasy of the afterlife and the the eternal damnation, eternal salvation, you might say, or the control of some projected moralities of society. So I started realizing, you know what, and it took me a decade to finally realize that no matter how hard I'm trying to do, I'm not getting positive without negative. They're coming together as a pair and I'm supportive and challenging and nice and mean and kind and cruel. Heracitis, the Greek philosopher, talked about the unity of opposites. And Paul Dak got his information from particle and particle physics from that idea. And I thought the unity of opposites is makes more sense to me because I'm having the unity of opposites. I'm having both. And the dialectic and the propositions of of arguments and law and then through the history from the time of Zeno through Aristotle to Hegel and all these philosophers, they all were talking about the unity of opposites, bringing and synthesizing these pairs of opposites. And I thought, I wonder what would happen if we did that in our in our mind. If we took the positive negatives and integrated them into the mind, could we liberate ourselves from the intrusive thoughts and the the things that occupy space and time in our mind that run our lives? Because anybody that's highly infatuated can't sleep at night. They got insomnia because they're on the alert that I got food in front of me. I don't want to lose it. So, I'm awake. Or if I got somebody I'm resentful, it's a predator. I got to stay awake because I could get eaten. And so we have this insomnia which is symptomatic trying to let us know we have imbalanced ratios of perception about people that we're storing in our mind causing these difficulties sleeping. So I set out to um answer the question is there such a thing as positive thinking by itself? So at age 28 I took 300 best-selling books on positive thinking. I underlined every positive word in those things and compiled those into a 2,000 index cards list. And I wrote a book, you can find it online, 2,00 to the wise, a dayby-day guide to inspirational living by Dr. D. Martini, published in 1983 on the most positive words and the most positive meditated affirmations and quotations that could be stated by that. And I put this book together and then I decided I was going to quote those divide that into 365 days. I put five to six quotes per day. I decided I was going to chant them 108 times like the rosary beads or the japa beads by the the international society consciousness. And I'm going to go through and inculcate my brain with the most positive words, most positive statements, most positive things I could, and then monitor and measure on a day-by-day cycle forecasting form the seven areas of my life to see what impact it's having on my life. And I did that for two years, every single day, four monitorings a day, seven, 11, three, and seven. And monitored what impact did saying nothing but positive words and nothing but positive statements impact my life. and I monitored it. And at the end of two years, I got a Texas Instrument calculator out, if you all remember those, and I calculated all of the fluctuations of all the highs and lows and positive negatives I had during the time I was concentrating most intensely, more than anybody I'd ever met, on positive thinking. And it came out zero. And then I learned something that I could have learned if I had just studied. I learned that there's a thing called hedonic adaptation that each of us have a set point that automatically oscillates our positives and negatives and brings us back. We also have a moral licensing effect. Anytime we get proud, we give ourselves permission to do something to undermine it to make sure we feel shamed to get us back in equilibrium. We do something ashamed, we do something to go pride, we go and work out, we then give ourselves permission to drink
1wine and eat and do things as a homeostat to try to keep us to the set point of our authentic state. So I realized at the end of it that it was a pointless thing to try to be one-sided. The Buddhist said the desire for that which is unobtainable and the desire to avoid that which is unavoidable as a source of human suffering. So instead of trying to get one half of a magnet and try to get rid of the other half a magnet which is futile, I finally embrace the positive and negatives and I started asking why do we have negativity? And I found without certain without the uncertainty about it that the second you have negativity, it's because it's there to break your addiction to its opposite pole. So anytime your amiga what's wants to avoid a predator and seek a prey, it wants to create a positive without a negative, a pleasure without a pain, a happy without a sad, a peace without a war. It's trying to get a one-sided world that doesn't exist. And the moment we do, our negativity through our intuition comes out to try to break that addiction. Because if we get addicted to that, we become juvenilely dependent on it and we don't grow. So we have to have the other side in order to grow again. So nature brings us back to the unity of opposites, which is our authentic self. I'm both hero and villain, nice and mean, kind and cruel. I'm not a one-sided individual. Neither none of us are. There is no such thing as a one-sided individual. There's no heroes out there. any religion that promotes it or any politics that promotes it is a farce because when you really get to know somebody after you marry somebody, they got both sides. Giving yourself permission to be whole, which is exactly what all this was giving you, transcends the illusion of trying to get a positive out of a negative. And trying to get rid of half of yourself is futile. You'll never love yourself if you're trying to get rid of all your negativity. It's pointless because you need it. You need it to break your addictions to the fantasies. Your executive center in the forebrain which has foresight and strategic planning and is more the integrated center of the soul. According to Scientific American September 2022, shows that our real self is that integrated self, not the fractured parts. So, as long as we're striving for a one-sided world, the other side has to smack us. So negativity is an absolutely essential aspect of human behavior. It is pointless to try to get rid of it. It's needed. Learning what it's trying to reveal to our minds is important. And most I found 15 most common reasons why we have negativity. We have unrealistic expectations on others to be one-sided, not bothsided. We have unrealistic expectations that others are going to live in our values, not their own. The combination of those two, we have an unrealistic expectation that we are going to be one-sided. So, we have negative towards oursel. Why am I not positive? I had a negative. I feel proud when I do this. I feel shame this way. We become bipolar. Unrealistic expectation us to live in other people's values like your husband. Unreal or combination of those two. Unrealistic expectation on the collective society to be living one-sided. final peace. Global peace index across the world shows a balance of peace and war across the world year after year after year. But idiots think they're going to get a one-sided world. You need both to grow to transform just like you need the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system for catalyst for catabolism and anabolism to destroy and build in your body for you to adapt to changing environments. The world needs that. and the unrealistic expectation on the collective society that everybody's going to live in your values. When I spoke at UNESCO, United Nations, I trained 75 delegates there and cracked their fantasy that everybody the world would be at peace if everybody would just follow their values. Delusions. But we live in a delusion because our amigdula runs most people's lives. Primarily because we've been taught we're supposed to get rid of half of oursel and be one-sided. And we can't love ourselves or other people as long as we're striving for that which is unobtainable. So there's a series of reasons why we have negativity. And the negativity is not our enemy, it's our friend because it's letting us know when we have unrealistic expectations. And our depression is a culmination of all those unrealistic expectations that do affect our biochemistry. But our pharmaceutical companies want you to believe it's because there's a lack of their drug, which is not true. It robs people of their power. There's nobody that has depression that can't transcend it. Guarantee it. I could just get warmed up. And we're at a time. I don't know. I'm speechless. Oh, what's up, Mila? um based on what I heard from you as a designer where everything that you're thinking saying I'm trying to you know put it together as an image I came with this image and please help me if if if I'm it's very simple I've simplified all the things that you've said is that there's this cup which is half full and half empty and based on whatever all the things that you heard that's what I'm envisioning that it's up to us how we see life either half full or half empty. It could be like maybe 1 ounce water and the rest empty but that 1 oz water is still a blessing. >> It's not seeing one or the other. It's seeing both simultaneously. >> Got it. >> Uh Willilhelm Want the father of experimental psychology 1897 text uh said that when people see simultaneous contrast they have stability and authenticity. when they see sequential contrast and there's a arrow of time and entro
1py and disorder in the perception you have um inauthenticity you have the imposttor syndrome or the personas and masked parts that we wear. So if we are infatuated with somebody and we're unconscious of the downside and then later we resent them and we're unconscious of the upside which most marriages do, there's a sequential contrast. There's a separation between the positive negatives. Anytime there's a separation positive negative, we're unstable. We have disorder, missing information. If we can see both of them simultaneously, that's why when you go out on the first date, you might as well get it out of the way. Get it on the table. find out what that is. Imagine me on a first date, right? Be tortured. >> Yes. But my girlfriend does the same work. So, she's right there. She just holds me accountable. So, I was in the Ritz Hotel in 1991 with my wife at the time who's passed away. Um, and we were listening to the Prince and Princesses of Japan on their honeymoon. They just got married. They're now the empress, an empress. But they were at the Ritz having dinner adjacent to us. And they had a 500page document, both of them, and they were asking each other questions to get to know each other that were handed down for generations in Japan that were wise questions, really wise questions that help get to know the individual and break through the facades that they are when they're first together. really believe that would be a useful tool for most people because um you fabricate the the amiga when it sees prey, it creates a positive feedback system and a false positive in order to create adrenaline to be able to run fast enough to capture the prey. And so what we do is we generalize and distort and exaggerate the positives and have false negatives and subconscious disisconfirming biases on the negatives at first to feed our fantasy instead of actually ground ourselves with quality questions. Better to get those questions out and save yourself enormous amounts of fantasy and um unrealistic expectations. That's why the quality of our life is based on quality questions asked. if we ask quality questions. So, this this couple, this the prince and princess were doing something uh in in balancing out the romance with a reason and making sure they got to know each other. If this happened, how would you respond? If this happened, how would you respond? If I did this, how would you respond? And it was uh offloaded for traditional questioning. So, it wasn't an attack on them. There's just thoughtprovoking questions to make you aware of you as a human being transcending the delusive fantasies that society tends to impose on marriages which are costly in society. So it's a wise thing to do. That's why the quality of our lives based on quality questions. So I'm I'm a lover of questions because a question makes you conscious of what you're unconscious of. My questioning made you conscious of what you were unconscious of and you feel you probably feel lighter now. Yeah. Anytime you have uh emotions and veency and charge and you're stored in the subconscious mind which is the neural coralate which is the amigulan hippocampus uh you create what is called entropic gravity. Eric Verlin's work if you want to look it up. You create entropic gravity and you weigh yourself down. It ages you. Aging is a the a result of entropy and the arrow of time separating memory and imagination in the sequential contrast of awareness. So the second we bring those into synchronicity, we empower our life again. When a bank gives you a credit card and you go shopping and you get pleasure and 30 days later you get pain, they help you become addict to consumerism because you assume you can get a pleasure without a pain. When I grew up, we had a layaway plan. You deferred gratification and you paid things and then when you paid it off, you finally got it. That is much healthier and much more stable for a society to have deferred gratification because immediate gratification cost long-term vision and deferred gratification pays investment wise, relationship wise, in every area of life health-wise. So separating the inseparables, dividing the indivisibles, labeling unlabelables, naming ineffitables, and polarizing unpolarizables, um go against what Impedocles and Hercitus said 2,600 years ago and undermine human potential. So I try to bring them back by the questions we ask. I'm sure you're familiar with this piece of literature, but everything you're saying right now is reminding me of one of my favorite quotes by Rainor Maria Roka about learn to live the questions and maybe someday in the distant future you will be able to live your way into the answer or something like that. I'm butchering it, but everything you're saying it's it's really interesting. We want a answers so desperately. I feel like as humans, we want the pain, the suffering to be done, to be gone. And so every time you're talking about the quality of the questions, I just keep thinking about what he says in that in the letters to a young poet is is the book. And he says,\"Do not try to get get the answer.\" He basically says, \"You if the answers were given to you, you wouldn't even be able to live them. So learn to love the questions.\" And I feel like that's what you so beautifully display in your career and what you did today. And I think I may have to go to the seminar this weekend. We'd love to have you. It's my mission. I've done it 1,246 times. This will be 1,247th time I presented it. >> You keep such a distinct record of all the the books you read. Who's doing this or how are you? >> I do. I do it every day. >> I documented everything. This this show will be on in my gratitude journal. I have 9,378 pages of journals. >> Tracking this on like a computer and Good old Word document. >> Oh, amazing. >> By the way, there's a 12step program, Survivors of D. Martini. You can join me. >> Just less of a question, more of a observation and how an epiphany that I had a few years ago going through a job loss and and s
1omeone told me that Chris, this is a gift and this, you know, bad negative thing that was happening to me. And then I just relented my whole life at that point in time going back and then of course going forward after that everything that you appear that appears to be negative or bad. It really truly is a gift. You see that is like a gift horse just giving you something new giving you're going to grow from it. Something is going to happen walk through that door and when uh if it didn't happen you would be stuck. So thank you for coming. You just summarized and said in 10 words what I just took 300,000 words to say. Your wisdom outshine me on that one. >> Well, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> By the way, the word passion that so fervently is promoted today. If it's you look at its ethmology, it comes from pio and pi. Pi which means to suffer. Compassion means to suffer with somebody. I have no interest in passion or compassion or the affections that Aristotle warned against. I'm simply interested in helping people discover their mission. Missing the ions, the charges are not there. Missing the ions, not passing between the ions. The dharmic path, not the karmic path. the equinimity of the Christian construct or the myth construct of the path of the sun. You could give a any religious construct or philosophical or perennial wisdom you can see a way of saying the same thing the unity of opposites. I remember in I think it was 1985 I saw an illustration in Time magazine when they used to do the little stories at the bottom and it said that these scientists had actually discovered weightlessness and they did a little diagram and they showed I don't know if it's neurons ions eons whatever they are but if all the positive ions were going in the same direction and the negative ones were you had weightlessness you had that zero like kind of when you were saying that that's what I was visualizing but when are knocking against each other is when it drags you down. >> There's there's subtlety to what you're saying that the the anti-gravitational effect of a non-charged state. A photon is spaceless, timeless, massless, and chargeless. When it leaves the Milky Way and comes here 26,000 light years away, it arrives the same time it left. So to somebody who's enlightened, there's no time. Timeless mind, ageless body. But when whenever you have charge, you have space, time, mass, and charge, you're living in a conditional state. Firmians versus Bzons they call it in physics. And when you do, you now are subject to mass. I call it mass consciousness verse master consciousness or enlightened consciousness. So there is there is a just a beautiful way of integrating the particle physics world with the psychological world not just as a metaphor but in deeper levels as winwin Schroinger in his one mind construct on mind and atoms that he wrote about he described it he was a mystic from the eastern vanta but at the same time he was a great scientist and gave rise to the shener equation which is one the greatest equations we know in physics. So that it was the mystic and the scientist that join true science and true religion don't fight. Pseudocience and pseudo religions are constantly fighting. >> Dr. D. Martini, if you don't tell us we're going to keep you here forever, >> do you need to leave at a certain time? I do need to go. >> Okay. So >> they just they just they just notified you. >> They just notify you. Okay. Yeah, they just >> because I was told very specific instructions not a minute after a certain >> My girlfriend My girlfriend just said the plane just touched ground. >> Okay. >> So I won't be in a doghouse if I don't pick her up. >> Okay. Let's not uh we don't want that positive or negative energy. Not not on us. Um I I just want to thank you for doing this. You and I just met over the internet a couple of weeks ago and you've been super generous to be here just shortly after I was talking. And I wanted to experience this. I wanted my friends and uh colleagues to experience it and I think it's truly remarkable and special. What I just wanted to say was I thought okay that was pretty deep and it just never ends and you were like we're only on column two of 55 or something. Yeah. It was just like we scratched the surface like how you hold at it and just this dimension that dimension. It was just really just just awesome to just witness and see. And she worked through this path of starting from a deep place of resentment. And I felt that when she said that because we've we know each other and how you moved her through all the different ways of not seeing this and and then having her just to come to the to the realization that there's a lot of gratitude. She owes a debt to this other woman Deborah, right? Because you would not be here had Deborah not set all these things into motion. And I keep imagining that had she not spilled the beans on you, you'd be living with tremendous guilt and would be eating you up inside the entire marriage and it would crack one way or the other with or without her assistance. And so I think she accelerated your growth and it's hard to see that because we we'd rather blame people. >> The farther we go into it, the more profound, magnificent appreciation you get. >>
1 Wow. Okay. Thank you very much everybody. Please give me a round of applause. Thank you so much.",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m30YwxRJYcc",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/m30YwxRJYcc",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m30YwxRJYcc/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:5047,duration_display:"1h 24m",view_count:174911,published_at:"2026-05-14T12:10:07+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Heal From Betrayal & Stop Being a Victim | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do and Dr. John Demartini reveal how to heal from betrayal. Learn to stop being a victim by reframing your perceptions and finding the hidden order in chaos.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-05-18T06:00:10.594572+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:03.218613+00:00",faq:$R[78]=[],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:15118,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"heal from betrayal",secondary_keywords:$R[79]=["dr john demartini","stop being a victim","how to reframe trauma","demartini method questions","overcoming resentment"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[80]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[81]={id:"b4c3b690-51d5-40bb-95b1-ff1562045acc",video_id:"-joIfKmSpMQ",title:"The Skill You Need To Win Clients That No One Talks About (but should)",slug:"the-power-of-attunement-in-sales",topic_tag:"CLIENT ACQUISITION",secondary_tags:$R[82]=["MINDSET","COMMUNICATION","SALES"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do and Dr. Nidhi Tewari reveal how attunement, the art of syncing with others, is the key to overcoming rejection and winning clients.",pull_quote:"I believe you have an operating system designed for failure.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[83]=[$R[84]={headline:"Attunement is a biological advantage.",explanation:"True connection isn't just emotional, it's physiological. When you're in sync, your neurons fire together and heart rates align, building deep trust."},$R[85]={headline:"Your past programs your sales results.",explanation:"Childhood messages about money and creativity create limiting beliefs. These unseen scripts dictate how you negotiate and perceive your own value today."},$R[86]={headline:"Reframe rejection as fuel.",explanation:"Rejection can trigger shame and shutdown, or it can become motivation. The difference is your internal operating system, which is a choice you can make."},$R[87]={headline:"Sell relationships, not transactions.",explanation:"Stop trying to be a fixer. Instead, listen deeply to diagnose the client's real problem. The person who demonstrates the most understanding wins the deal."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>The Unspoken Skill That Closes Deals\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>There is a skill so fundamental to winning business that it operates beneath the surface of most sales advice. It has nothing to do with your slide deck, your pricing strategy, or your portfolio. Itâs the invisible force that separates talented creatives who struggle from those who thrive.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Itâs called attunement.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>In a candid conversation with Chris Do, psychologist and executive coach Dr. Nidhi Tewari, author of \x3Cem>Working Well\x3C/em>, breaks down this underrated superpower. \x3Cem>âItâs the skill that, if you leverage it properly, it can absolutely transform your business,â\x3C/em> she explains. \x3Cem>âItâll get you more clients. Itâll build up your confidence, and itâll help you to relate much more effectively to everybody that you interact with.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>At its core, \x3Cstrong>attunement\x3C/strong> is our ability to get in sync with ourselves and with others. Itâs not just a metaphor. Itâs a biological reality.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âYour neurons start firing together, your heart rate syncs up, your breathing gets in tune with each other,â\x3C/em> Tiwari says, citing MRI studies on human connection. \x3Cem>âWe literally on a biological level become synchronized and this leads to the emotional state of connectedness.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This state of being in tune, of moment-to-moment responsiveness, is the foundation of trust. Without trust, there is no sale. The biggest barrier creatives face in closing a deal isn't their skill or the quality of their work. It's a failure to connect.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>They don't understand others because, critically, they don't understand themselves.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Ghost of âYou Canâtâ\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Why do so many talented professionals struggle to charge what theyâre worth? They deliver great work, yet they stumble in the sales meeting, undercut their own prices, and walk away feeling devalued. According to Tiwari, the answer lies in the past.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThe biggest challenge is our limiting beliefs and our past experiences,â\x3C/em> she states. \x3Cem>âBecause those form the lenses through which we navigate the world today.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For many creatives, these lenses were ground and polished by well-meaning but misguided voices from childhood. Parents, teachers, and society often send a clear message: being a creative is not a viable c
1areer path.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>âYouâre never going to make money doing this.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>âAre you sure that this is the right pathway for you?â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>âOnly the top 1% of creatives can make it.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>This messaging embeds itself deep in the psyche. It becomes an invisible script that runs in the background of every client negotiation and pricing conversation. An audience member named Raina shared her own experience, recalling that from the age of eleven, the social environment in her school implied her ambitious goals were out of reach. She saw no role models who looked like her pursuing the career she envisioned.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The message she received wasn't an explicit âno.â It was an absence of âyes.â\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This experience is profoundly common. Tiwari, whose work now focuses on rehumanizing the workplace, shared her own story of defying family expectations. \x3Cem>âIn my family growing up, the only three career paths that were acceptable were doctor, lawyer, or engineer, which is very typical of the immigrant experience,â\x3C/em> she recalls. When she chose to become a therapist, her parents were baffled.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âPeople that go to therapy are crazy. Why would you want to work with crazy people?â\x3C/em> they asked. Even after her sister became a psychiatrist, a medical doctor, the family remained skeptical because her specialty was mental health.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>That old messaging forced Tiwari to work twice as hard. She had to prove to herself that she was capable, and then prove to her parents that she could be successful. The need for external validation, born from these early \x3Cstrong>limiting beliefs\x3C/strong>, can hamstring a creativeâs ability to confidently state their value. You cannot expect a client to believe in a price you don't fully believe in yourself. For more on this, Do offers a deep dive in his talk on \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-price-your-work-full-whiteboard-adobemax\">how to price your work\x3C/a>, moving from selling services to serving clients.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Paralyzing Fear of âNoâ\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>The second force holding creatives back is the universal fear of rejection.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This isnât just about losing a deal. It taps into a primal human fear of not belonging. As Tiwari explains, disappointment is simply the gap between expectation and reality. When you go into a meeting expecting to win and you don't, that disappointment feels like a personal rejection. It feels like you donât matter.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âWhen we face rejection in that way, it then primes us to not be bold and take other opportunities that may present themselves,â\x3C/em> she says. \x3Cem>âWe tend to play it small to keep ourselves safe.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For many, this fear is deeply intertwined with shame. Shame, as popularized by researcher Brené Brown, is a powerful and destructive emotion. Itâs the voice of the âshame gremlinsâ telling you that you are fundamentally flawed. Tiwari draws a direct line between the two: \x3Cem>âRejection and shame are close cousins.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>She explains that the belief that develops from rejection is often \x3Cem>âI donât matterâ\x3C/em> or \x3Cem>âIâm not good enough.â\x3C/em> Those beliefs create the emotional experience of shame, which, according to Brownâs work, shuts us down completely.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>To illustrate the deep roots of this connection, Tiwari shared a personal story from her teenage years. At 15, she asked her traditional Indian father for permission to go to the mov
1ies with friends. He didnât just say no. He attacked her character.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âNo girl with shame would never go out past 8:00 p.m.,â\x3C/em> he told her. He wasnât just denying a request; he was communicating that the request itself made her a bad person. \x3Cem>âThe fact that you even asked me speaks about your moral character,â\x3C/em> Do paraphrased. It turned a simple permission request into an assault on her identity.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>That is the anatomy of shame. Itâs what distinguishes critique from condemnation. As Brown famously defines it, itâs the difference between \x3Cem>âI made a mistakeâ\x3C/em> and \x3Cem>âI am a mistake.â\x3C/em> When rejection triggers the feeling of being a mistake, the pain becomes unbearable, and avoidance becomes the default strategy.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Two Operating Systems, Two Destinies\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>But not everyone processes rejection this way. The conversation took a fascinating turn when Chris Do revealed his own experience is the polar opposite.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He's been rejected countless times, both personally and professionally. His reaction is not shame. Itâs fuel.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âWhen I pursued girls in my life, Iâm like, âNo, youâre not interested? Youâre lost,ââ\x3C/em> he says with a laugh. \x3Cem>ââOne day youâll recognize that that was a big mistake.ââ\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This mindset was forged early. At 17, Do applied to three universities and was rejected by all of them. He didn't feel shame. He felt determination. He vividly remembers the letter from UCLA, which said he demonstrated potential but wasnât ready for them.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI was like, âOh, weâll see about that,ââ\x3C/em> he recalls. \x3Cem>âI said one day Iâm going to go to the best school and Iâm going to do wonderful things with my life and Iâm going to bring this letter back out and say, âYou see? You had like a player and you turned me down.ââ\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This stark contrast led Do to a concept he heard from pastor Erwin McManus. McManus, reflecting on the legendary upset where Buster Douglas defeated Mike Tyson, suggested that people are wired with different internal systems. \x3Cem>âSome of us are wired with an operating system designed for failure,â\x3C/em> Do explains. \x3Cem>âSome of us are wired with an operating system designed for success.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>When someone experiences rejection and their story is one of devalued self-worth, guilt, and shame, they are running on an \x3Cstrong>operating system designed for failure\x3C/strong>. They fall into the victim trap. Doâs provocative stance is to call it out directly. \x3Cem>âI just say to them now, I believe you have an operating system designed for failure,â\x3C/em> he states. \x3Cem>âAnd they usually just accept it.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This raises a critical question: what separates these two mindsets? Is it an unchangeable trait, or a skill that can be learned? The answer, according to Tiwari, is that change is absolutely possible. The therapy and self-development worlds are built on that premise. The journey from a failure-oriented OS to a success-oriented one, however, requires confronting what youâve been avoiding. Doâs own story of overcoming adversity is a testament to this, which he shares in his \x3Ca href=\"/watch/chris-do-immigrant-story-resilience-mindset\">immigrant journey interview\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Anatomy of Being Stuck\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>If you feel trapped in a cycle of self-sabotage and missed opportunities, itâs not because youâre broken. Itâs because you are avoiding discomfort. According to Tiwari, people get stuck for a combination of reasons.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The first is a lack of self-awareness. They cannot see the patterns controlling their behavior. The second is an avoidant personality. When discomfort arises, their instinct is to run away, gloss over the problem, or pretend it doesnât exist.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âTo be super self-aware,â\x3C/em> Do reflects, \x3Cem>âis step one.â\x3C/em> Without it, you are blind to your own shadow. \x3Cem>âIf youâre not self-aware, youâre stuck.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is where the \x3Cstrong>past-present connection\x3C/strong> becomes so critical. Tiwari offers a powerful maxim from a mentor: \x3Cem>âIf your reaction is hysterical, its roots are historical.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>When you have a disproportionate, self-flagellating response to a minor setback, like losing one client, that intense reaction is not about the present moment. Itâs an echo of a past wound. Itâs a historical trauma replaying itself.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>You cannot rewire these neural pathways if you refuse to look at them. As Do puts it, using a blunt visual metaphor, \x3Cem>
1âIf you donât take out the trash, it still rots and festers. You can avoid it, but it still rots and it fers and it actually gets worse over time.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Avoidance leads to dissociation, a state of being disconnected from your emotional experience. Your unprocessed trauma lives in your body, and every time a new situation triggers that old wound, the same physiological response takes over. You react on autopilot.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The path out of this trap, as outlined by Tiwari, is to lean into the discomfort. Itâs a deliberate process:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Notice the reaction.\x3C/strong> Recognize when you are having a disproportionate response. Acknowledge that this is an echo from the past, not just about the present situation.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Identify the emotions.\x3C/strong> Give your feelings a name. This is the principle of âname it to tame it.â Simply saying \x3Cem>âIâm feeling really ashamed right nowâ\x3C/em> or \x3Cem>âI feel disappointedâ\x3C/em> begins to calm your nervous system.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Soothe your system.\x3C/strong> Once the emotion is named, use breathing or grounding techniques to bring your body out of a fight-or-flight state and back into a calmer physiological place.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Explore and process.\x3C/strong> Once you are calm, you can make meaning of whatâs happening. Talk about it with a trusted friend, coach, or therapist. Connection is the antidote to shame.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>This is not easy work. It requires a conscious choice to face the hard stuff. But it is the only way to upgrade your operating system and stop letting your past dictate your future. This work is foundational to not just personal growth, but to professional success, as explored in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-words-shape-your-reality-melanie-whitney\">how words shape your reality\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>From Self-Awareness to Sales\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>How does this internal work translate into booking more clients and making more money? The connection is direct. Attunement is the bridge between self-awareness and sales success.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThe people that end up being successful in business are the ones that view their clients in a relational manner,â\x3C/em> Tiwari asserts. \x3Cem>âThey donât view it as closing a deal. They donât view it as a transaction. They view it as a relationship, as a service to the other person.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>When you approach a sales conversation from a relational standpoint, your goal shifts from pitching to understanding. Your primary job is not to present a solution, but to accurately diagnose the problem. This is where most creatives drop the ball.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>They fall into what Tiwari calls âconnection gaps.â A client comes to you with a surface-level problem, like burnout. You come to the meeting prepared to talk about well-being workshops. But as they talk, they reveal the real issues: a lack of psychological safety, an overwhelming workload, and inadequate resources.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>If you fail to pivot, you will propose a solution that treats the symptom, not the cause. Youâll be offering a band-aid for a deep wound, and the client will intuitively know you donât truly understand. That trust is built by asking better questions and listening, a skill Do demonstrates in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-say-your-price-sales-roleplay\">a live sales roleplay\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Tiwari identifies three common \x3Cstrong>mis-attunement types\x3C/strong> that sabotage sales conversations:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Fixer:\x3C/strong> This person jumps in with solutions before fully understanding the problem. They are so eager to demonstrate their expertise that they miss the opportunity to build trust. As Tiwari notes, \x3Cem>âFixers create friction.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Avoider:\x3C/strong> This person bypasses the clientâs pain. They hear the client express frustration or difficulty and immediately pivot to a tactical plan, failing to validate the emotion. The client is left feeling unheard.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Connector:\x3C/strong> This person tries to relate by constantly talking about their own experiences. While it can sometimes work, it often shifts the focus away from the client. The client wants to feel like the most important person in the room, not a prompt for your stories.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>Success in sales is not about being the best. Itâs about being the most trusted. \x3Cem>âPeople donât buy from the best person,â\x3C/em> Tiwari reminds us. \x3Cem>âThey buy from the person that they trust the most. The person that they feel can get the job done with the least amount of friction.â\x3C/em> True attunement minimizes friction by making the client feel seen, heard, and deeply understood.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Myth of the âFriends and Familyâ Discount\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>
1A relational approach to sales is often misunderstood by creatives. They confuse being relational with being a people-pleaser. They hear âbuild a relationshipâ and think it means they must lower their price to be accommodating, especially with friends or referrals.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do pushes back on this idea hard. \x3Cem>âIsnât that the problem, that theyâre thinking of it as relational?â\x3C/em> he asks. \x3Cem>âI value the relationship, so I will agree to do it for less.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is a fundamental error. Building a relationship and maintaining professional boundaries are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are synergistic. Tiwari clarifies the distinction. \x3Cem>âYou can have a relationship with somebody and still maintain your fee integrity and still maintain your boundaries,â\x3C/em> she insists. \x3Cem>âJust because you have a bond with someone doesnât mean that your price goes down.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Real friends, she argues, should want to pay your full rate because they value you and your work. Do references the principle, often attributed to entrepreneur Alex Hormozi, that a true friend always pays full price and never asks for a discount.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The reality for many creatives is different. Family and friends are often the first to ask for a freebie or a steep discount. They often don't understand the value of knowledge work, confusing effort with physical labor. As one audience member, Hector, noted, his blue-collar family has no clue what he charges as a white-collar professional and assumes his work is easy because heâs not sweating.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is why maintaining \x3Cstrong>fee integrity\x3C/strong> is a non-negotiable part of a healthy business. You cannot build a sustainable enterprise on discounts and favors. Your pricing is a reflection of the value you provide, not the personal connection you have with the buyer.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Doâs policy is even stricter. He generally avoids working with family and friends altogether, seeing it as a risk to the personal relationship. \x3Cem>âFamily donât pay you full price and then they can never be pleased,â\x3C/em> he says. Itâs simply not worth the squeeze.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The lesson is clear. Attunement is about understanding and connecting, not capitulating. Itâs a tool for building the trust that allows you to charge your full value, not an excuse to give it away.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Your ability to win clients is a direct reflection of your ability to get in tune with them. But that journey doesnât start in the sales meeting. It starts inside you.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>It starts with the decision to stop running from the past and start facing it. By understanding your own historical programming, you can begin to relate to others from a place of clarity and confidence, not fear and shame.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>That is the skill no one talks about. And it will change everything.\x3C/p>",transcript:"Drigo will start with me and then I'll say what I need to say to the audience once he confirms we're actually live. Hard to grab. It's okay. >> Just don't knock it over. >> I know. That would be the worst worst scenario. >> Can you knock your triangle back for me? >> Yeah. Yep. >> Is this book out in the public already? >> Mhm. March 24th was launch. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Available on Amazon, everywhere you buy, find books. >> Yep. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. >> Okay. >> And if people want to know. >> All right. Hey, what's up, future fam? And thanks for tuning in to this live stream once again. We're here in Santa Monica. This may be the final few days in which we're broadcasting live from Santa Monica offices because I'm setting up a Pasadena office, but I'm more than delighted to be talking to my good friend Nidhi Tewari, who I've known since the old clubhouse days. She's got a brand new book called Working Well, and it's out everywhere, available, and we're going to give you a couple of reasons why you want to pick up the book, and we're going to talk about those topics today. So, thanks for tuning in everybody. We're going to get on with the show. >> That was great. Thanks for having me. >> Thanks, Nidhi. Okay, so Nidhi, if somebody's like scrolling by on the feed and they hit upon this video, what are reasons why they would want to stick around and watch all of it? >>
1 Because there is a skill that is underrated that very few people know, but if you leverage it properly, it can absolutely transform your business. It'll get you more clients. It'll build up your confidence, and it'll help you to relate much more effectively to everybody that you interact with. >> That sounds like a pretty good deal. It's a good deal. >> What else? >> What else? I mean, it's the skill is called attunement, and it's all about being able to get in tune with yourself and with other people. And I find that the biggest barrier that people face when they're trying to close a deal or they're trying to connect with somebody, >> they don't understand others. >> Okay, attunement is a complicated fancy word. What does it even mean? Attunement basically is our momentto- moment responsiveness to one another to my emerging needs and yours simultaneously. So it's basically the way that we're able to adapt to one another and get in sync with one another. >> Is this a natural state for us to be in or why do we have to work on this? >> Yeah, it is a natural state but it does take some effort. So, uh, what we found is that there are actually some MRIs that were done and looked at when people are in sync with each other, what actually happens. And it turns out that your neurons start firing together, your heart rate syncs up, your breathing gets in tune with each other, right? So like we literally on a biological level become synchronized and this leads to the emotional state of connectedness. >> Does this happen across sexes, genders? It's like man to man, man to woman, woman, woman woman to woman. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Across humans. >> Okay. We know this uh among women who get together and spend a lot of time together. Their menstrual cycles sync up to the alpha female. >> What is the male equivalent to that? >> I mean, it's uh an emotional experience, right, of bonding. So, think about like when you're hanging out with your bros and you're hitting up the bar or you're going out to a sporting event and everybody just feels super in sync with each other. You're rooting for the same team. You're cheersing the beers. It's the same type of experience. Uh maybe not on like that like period level of biological but in a different biological way. >> Okay. So I don't do any of those things. I don't drink. I don't go to the bar. I don't watch sports. I'm not cheersing anybody because I'm not drinking anything. >> Does that mean I'm left out of this whole bro connection? I hang out a lot with Drigo and a couple other couple of other dudes. >> Yeah. >> I don't know if I'm syncing up with them. Drigo, are we synced up together? >> What's that? your >> Yes, that's I didn't even hear what he said. >> He said your fashion, which is right on point. You guys do dress similarly, right? You have mentored him in terms of how he presents himself and you guys are in sync. >> I can't believe he brought this up. It's going to derail a whole conversation. We'll put a pin on that cuz I I don't think it's like working well fashion, right? >> It's much deeper than this. >> Okay, let me open up. I have a couple of questions I want to ask you about. Is that okay? >> Sure. >> All right. Oh, before we do that, in case somebody's tuning in like, \"Who the heck is this woman? She sounds super smart, articulate. I like the ideas that she's sharing. The energy, the vibes are great. Who are you? >> Well, I work at the intersection of well-being and work culture. And I consult and speak to Fortune 500 companies on how to be able to improve work culture so that people connect better and work better together. >> I like that answer. It's super corporate. >> Thank you. >> Can we just go with like the human answer? Yeah. >> What the hell is that? What does that mean? The intersection of culture and wellbeing. You know, you asked for the the 30second pitch, right? Um, you know, I I want to rehumanize the workplace. That's really what it boils down to. I want people to be able to relate more effectively to one another. I want them to be able to feel in tune with one another. And I think that ultimately everything good in life comes a result comes as a result of our relationships. >> See, your second answer was more human than the first answer. It is. >> So, you rehumanized that answer. I like that. Drigo, did you have something you want to contribute? I thought you raised your hand for a reason. >> Okay. All right. He's just raising his hand. All right. So, let's get into it then. So, here's my first question. Why do so many talented creatives, there's a lot of creative people that are part of our community, so I think this is going to impact them. They struggle to close deals or to charge what they're worth and even though they believe that their work is genuinely good or even great, they wouldn't say that, but it's genuinely good. What's the big challenge here? The biggest challenge is our limiting beliefs and our past experiences because those form the lenses through which we navigate the world today. So I find a lot of creatives heard messaging earlier in their lives uh of like you're never going to make money doing this, right? Like are you sure that this is the right pathway for you to take? Not like only the top 1% of creatives can make it. And that same messaging then follows you into your negotiations, into your client relationships, into how you sell yourself. I also find that a lot of creatives are very afraid of rejection and perhaps that's even beyond creatives. I think that's a human experience where we don't put ourselves out there and we don't necessarily push for the highest rate um because we have been rejected in the past and it is a painful experience. Okay, so we have a live audience here in studio with us and several people who are tuning in live. How many of you identify as a creative person? I don't mean traditionally like art school, but as a creative person. >> Okay, that should be everybody quite literally. I did that on purpose. Okay, so I want to ask our audience to check in on what you're talking about to kind of see. So Nidhi proposed two things. The reason why we're stuck is a a belief system that we inherited from someone who told us that you're not going to succeed doing this thing. Does that ring true for some of you? Just nod or wink twice or give me Yeah. Okay. There's a lot of nods. A little surfer like, \"Yeah, no, bro.\" And know. Okay. Okay. And Drigo, what about you? Did you hear this growing up? Like what you're going to do is not going to work out? >> Yeah, but I'm asking right now. He's not in he's he's in his uh focus moment. Okay. Yeah. >> So, the people who feel that, I'd love to hear your experience with who told you and how you think that's carried on into adulthood. >> Okay. Cuz I want to compare and contrast it to like how I think of the world and see like why this is what it is. Cuz I think if we can unpack this, this could be very valuable to a lot of people, not just traditional creatives. Okay. The people who were feel strongly about this, can we hear from you? I think it's you three. We'll leave Allan out of this. There's some familial bias there perhaps. The two ladies here. Yeah. Can we get You have the mic right here. Yeah. Go ahead and take it. My two other friends are like, \"Not not quite.\" >> Mhm. >> Okay. Go ahead, >> Drigo. >> Yeah. No. See, see, I told you this was going to happen. >> Oh, is my Is it off? There we go. >> All right. We're good. >> Yeah. >> So, you want to >> What is your name again? >> Rea. Raina, >>
1 you're interested in hearing kind of what shaped this notion that maybe I don't feel like my value is is front and center. Is that the question? Just so I >> I'll redirect. Okay. It's like a um court of law here. Allow me to redirect the witness here. Okay. There's this concept that belief systems, something you inherited from someone who meant something to you who said what you're going to do is not going to work out. >> And you said, \"Yeah, that resonates with me.\" first where did and when and how did you hear this? >> I think this is speaking as a woman in the context where I was raised. I think that there were a lot of social things around me when I was like probably around 11 is the earliest memory where the indications were what you want to do may not be totally what you can do and there was a lot of emphasis on quite frankly having a family. So this idea of something that would even be a part of my career wasn't really on my radar because of the social environment I was in as a girl growing up. >> Did that environment is it like something you can pinpoint as to a person or a piece of literature like people say the government or them or they but then we can never pinpoint who those people are. Can you visualize these the they in this? >> I'd say school. >> School. I didn't see a lot of people like me who were interested in design, who were interested in the kind of career I was interested in. And so it was sort of like, well, do you just want to be a teacher or do you want to do something that where like other women had careers? So it felt like it was school and other adults. >> Okay. >> That were women. Yeah. >> Okay. >> At 11 in school, you already kind of knew that you wanted to have a career. And >> is this what you we're talking about? >> At 11, I I knew I was ambitious. Like I was really interested in doing things where I would work with other people, where I could create something that would inspire them. I didn't know what, but I always felt a little like, oh, maybe that's not possible for you. >> Okay. I think that's wonderful. I'm going to throw it back to Nidhi. So NI, get ready. So here's what I'm hearing from you. The environment that you were in mostly around school at around 11 years old, there weren't clear models, role models, or people who were as ambitious as you saw for yourself. So that wasn't clear whether they explicitly told you no or yes. The message was received and you were saying this may impact more women than men. Perhaps >> perhaps because you you had mentioned a little bit. Okay. So I'm going to throw it back to the doctor and doctor. >> The doctor um yeah we are socialized. I think this is a an experience that a lot of women go through is we're socialized to believe that we only have certain career paths that are appropriate. So I can share in my family growing up the only three career paths that were acceptable were doctor, lawyer or engineer which is very typical of the immigrant experience. And so when I decided to go and become a therapist, my parents were baffled. They were like completely befuddled by this decision because they were like, \"Well, wait a minute. People that go to therapy are crazy. Why would you want to work with crazy people? is this which is not the appropriate thing to think or say but that's I'm just sharing what their mentality is and that you know is that going to be a money-making career like why would you switch off from premed which I did do for many years and so when I made that decision I had to really prove myself and I felt like it was proving doubly to myself that I was capable because that old messaging replayed frequently and also then proving to my parents that hey I can be successful uccessful in this and I will show you and I did. >> H okay. Similar. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. So I I I don't want to check in with you, Nidi. I I say doctor, but you know the the thing is they wanted you to become a doctor. >> Yeah. >> Is is therapy or therapists the black sheep of the doctor tree? >> It is. >> I didn't know that. >> Yeah, it is. >> It sounds really legit to me. >> It doesn't it? >> It is to most people. It's not it's not to an immigrant parent, right? To an immigrant parent, it's like what do you mean you're And my sister's a psychiatrist and she got flack, too. So, she is a medical doctor. She's a psychiatrist, but because it's mental health, it got labeled as is that really a doctor? And once again, same question. Why would you want to work with crazy people? Right? So even her in her situation she followed the correct path per outlined by my parents but still got a lot of push back from them. >> Okay. So that's number one this belief system. >> Yeah. >> Maybe we'll park on this and move to the second reason the fear of rejection which is I think universal. >> Yes. >> Right. So everybody Yes. We get some nods here. >> Something about rejection. What is it about someone saying no to you >> that hurts so much that you avoid hearing no? You know, there's a couple of pieces here. I think one of them is that the gap between expectations and reality is disappointment. So, when we go into, for example, a client meeting and we expect to close the deal and we don't win the deal, there is disappointment. And that feels like a rejection because it is a rejection. It hits on one of our primal fears of belonging and feeling like we matter. And so when we face rejection in that way, uh it then primes us to not be bold and take other opportunities that may present themselves. We tend to play it small to keep ourselves safe. >> You're writing. You're writing away. >> I am writing away. Okay. >> Love it. >> So disappointment lives between expectation and reality. >> Yes. >> That is also Robert McKe's definition of what makes a good story. M >> a subjective expectation versus objective reality. >> But that's what we try to create in stories. >> Yeah. >> So if it's good for creating stories, how come it's such so bad for us as a self story? >> Because in a story we have some distance, right? So you think about like there's no story, no uh no story, no conflict, right? That's I forgot who said that. >> No conflict, no story. Robert McKe. Yes. Yes. Exactly. No conflict, no story. It makes for a great story after the fact, but when you're going through it, it is like the dark knight of the soul. It's painful to feel rejected, especially when you face rejection repeatedly. If it's a once in a while type of thing, and and this is where the mindset shift has to happen, right? Is that, and I've had to work on this over the years, is y
1ou know, you will get inevitably rejected the more you put yourself out there for bigger and better opportunities. the more you stretch yourself out of your comfort zone, the more opportunity there is to be rejected because you are entering the arena where other people choose not to go. Um, but in those initial times where I experienced rejection, it was gut-wrenchingly painful and I would be lying if I said that it doesn't hurt still when you don't get something that you desire to get. >> May I pull apart the wound a little bit? >> Sure. >> Okay. Where is the earliest memory of rejection that hurt the most for you? >> When where? How? >> Yeah. And this is perfect because this is part of attunement is like noticing the past present connection. So for me the past present connection for rejection uh was actually you know I love my parents. We have a very different relationship now. But I felt rejected by my parents a lot. I was the black sheep of my family. I was even from a young age before career before any of that. I was the one who always pushed boundaries. I was the one that wanted to have a boyfriend. I wanted to be able to have a social life. Uh and my my parents both are very traditional Indian and they did not appreciate that. So my earliest rejections come from feeling like I don't belong even within my own family. >> Is there a specific example? >> Yeah, I can think of many. I mean there there >> give us a juicy one. >> Okay. >> Please. We're here to get real. Are we not a spot, right? >> Every time you say something I'm like I want concrete. Yeah, I got you. No problem. >> Yes, please. Thank you. >> Um, you know, there are times where, for example, like I remember coming home and wanting to be able to go out with friends and my I remember my dad so vividly saying to me, this was going to be like an evening outing, so we were going to be out till like 9 or 10. >> How old are you? >> This is maybe like 15. Um, so teenage years. Um, and I came home and I was like, \"Dad, I really want to go out for this party. We're going to the movies. Core group of friends. They know them all.\" and he said, \"No girl that no a girl with shame would never go out past 8:00 p.m.\" Basically saying, \"You should be ashamed of yourself for wanting to be out with boys past 8:00 p.m.\" And he made it seem as though my uh my morality was even questioned, right? Like whether I was even a good person for asking for that. And that's just one of many many examples that I can think of where it was like oo like that's a very shameful shameridden experience. >> I hear you. That sounds more like asking for permission and being rejected for not getting permission to do something but not rejection of you as a person. I it feels like that from your description. But if I say, \"Can I eat your apple pie?\" And I'm like, \"No.\" It's like, \"Oh, you dismiss my whole being.\" It's a different thing. It's I have control >> in this relationship and you're asking me if I could do something. I just said no, I'm moving on with my life, but you've interpreted that as rejection of me as a as a person and doesn't have good values. >> It's I think it's different when somebody says to you no, you can't do this thing versus no and if you do this thing, you are a bad person. Okay, >> that's what he essentially was saying to me that you are a shameful person if for even asking this question for even thinking about going out with these boys. >> So he added more sauce to this than needed to be. So he's like the fact that you even asked me >> speaks about your moral character. >> Correct. >> So he turned a permission thing to a attack on character. >> Correct. >> Now had he just said no honey I just don't feel comfortable with you being around boys after that time. You never know what's going to happen. Everybody presents a good face and I've seen enough bad things in this world. I don't want that to happen for you. >> That would be very different. Very different experience. >> But then he wouldn't be an Indian immigrant parent. >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. >> He'd be quite >> Yeah. But there are Indian parents that I have met that are very like kind. >> You can say it. >> Have to say that with my most white way of saying that. >> Fair. Fair enough. Maybe maybe more. um attuned >> maybe maybe >> okay it's real interesting well I think there are both strengths and weaknesses to lots of different cultures where there's a strength there's a weakness and where there's a weakness there's a strength >> I know growing up as an immigrant kid I never got to do anything >> and I did not like my parents for it but I didn't feel rejected >> but they didn't also shame me on top of that >> right >> or at least I blocked it out of my mind I don't recall any of that happening >> okay >> shame cuts really deeply like and I think rejection and shame are close cousins because when you when you feel rejected by somebody the interpretation the belief that develops as a result of that is that I don't matter or I'm not important or I'm not good enough. Those are the kinds of beliefs that come as a result of that type of rejection. And then those beliefs then create the experience the emotional experience of shame. And then we know shame is like from Bnee Brown's work is like a powerful driver, right? It like shuts us down. It puts us into like more of a freeze shutdown state than anything. >> Yeah. I think she has this term she may have coined called the shame gremlins. They come out. Y >> this is fascinating to me. >> Now I want to say this and I invite everyone to attack me. I really am serious about this. I don't imagine a lot of boys or men sitting around like talking about shame gremlins. I don't know
1why. I don't think that is a concept that men could have come up with. >> And and you had said uh rejection is shame or close cousins. I've been rejected many times, countless times. >> I don't remember that often that I felt shame with rejection. So I'd like to explore this. Maybe this is a gender dynamic. I'm not sure. uh in in your studies and your observations and your research, is this a universal thing or do women feel it more? Because I wonder if culturally you were set up to feel that rejection and link it to shame more than boys are. I'm just curious. >> It's possible. It's also, you know, I think endemic within uh like I I I can at least speak to my own cultural experience. Shame is a behavioral change agent in Indian culture. as in not only does your family shame you, the community also shames you and shame is actually used as a way to control. Um, now that also does happen in other cultures. I think shame is a a human emotion across the spectrum regardless of your cultural background. So to answer your question, I mean, is it a gendered thing? Perhaps, you know, I don't have the research on that. Um, but I do think men also experience shame. I think I definitely do. Like think about like um and this you may not relate to this situation but I'm sure some listeners can if they were ever rejected by a person that they were pursuing romantically right there's a a feeling of like whoa like I don't feel good enough like or if somebody cheats on you and there's infidelity there's a shame and an internalization that there must have been something that I did. If you get rejected from a promotion, uh sometimes people shame spiral about that and they're like, what could I have done differently? Like there must be something about me as a human, right? And one of Bnee Brown's key distinctions is that uh the difference between I made a mistake versus I am a mistake, right? And I think that the latter is where shame lives. >> This is wonderful. >> Yeah. >> Cool. Thank you. >> Is it capturing poslosives though? >> Sorry. >> Is it capturing the possives? Okay. Okay. Good. >> Great. Thanks, D. >> Are we good? Drigo, >> this is wonderful and I want to say why you share a perspective that I think a lot of people can relate to >> and it's the exact opposite of what I think. So, I would love to explore like how this works because this is like very foreign to me. I've been rejected a lot in relationships and everything else. I'll tell you what I think when I I I pursued girls in my life. I'm like, \"No, you're not interested. >> You're lost. >> One day you'll recognize that that was a big mistake.\" >> And I really do think that and companies like, \"Turn me down.\" Okay, I'll tell you what. This was a big moment in my life. I'm 17 years old. I applied to three universities. I got rejected out of all three. I wasn't like, \"Oh my god, so much shame. Shame on my house. Shame on me.\" I'm like, you'll see. >> That seriously was my mindset. And you know what I told myself? Because I applied to art school and I I just >> so sad I don't have the letter cuz I would frame it, dip it in gold, and put it on the on the wall. It was a letter from UCLA. They're the only ones who wrote a real letter back to me. like somebody actually thoughtfully wrote something back and they said something like you demonstrate potential but you're just not ready for us and I was like oh we'll see about that. I said one day I'm going to go to the best school and I'm going to do wonderful things with my life and I'm going to bring this letter back out and say you see >> you had like a player and you turned me down. >> Yeah. >> So I just use that to motivate me. >> Right. I've I've I've been interested in girls who are like, \"Nah, not right now.\" I'm like, \"Well, maybe never then.\" >> You'll see. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, this brings me to something I heard Pastor Irwin McManis say. He was telling this really impassionate story about Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson and then losing the championship. He said that some of us are wired with an operating system designed for failure. >> Some of us are wired with an operating system designed for success. And every time I hear something where someone experiences something I've experienced before, but their interpretation is a story about devaluing them, lowering their confidence, self-worth, feeling guilt, and shame, falling into the victim trap. I just say to them now, I believe you have an operating system designed for for failure. >> And they usually just accept it. >> And I'm like, I wouldn't have accepted that. If I said that to me, I'm like, f you. Let me tell you what I'm made of. So I'm curious based on your observations, the research, help me understand this because if you can crack this open, we've helped a lot of humans. >> Yeah. I mean I do I think that we are like it's a unchangeable thing. No. I think that I think that some of us do have experienced trauma that has wired us in a way where we see rejection as something that is a personal failure. And I think sometimes for many of us those messages are what reson they're what resound in our heads. Now that doesn't mean though and like the therapy world and the self-development world
1wouldn't exist if there wasn't a potential to be able to alter that, right? Uh and that's where we have to really challenge some of those narratives. Part of attunement is like getting in tune with yourself, right? recognizing these patterns, recognizing these past present connections, but it doesn't mean you have to be stuck there, right? That's that is I think the key uh shift that people need to make. And one of the easiest ways I talk about in the book is, you know, when you notice that you're having these disproportionate reactions. A mentor told me that if your reaction is hysterical, its roots are historical. Meaning that when you have a disproportionate selfin like self-imposed like I'm a failure, I'm terrible, I'm not good enough response, that is a disproportionate reaction to the rejection that you're facing. And its roots are in your past. So you need to just recognize what that might be. And once you notice that reaction, then you can identify the emotions. That's when we can name it to tame it, right? Just simply identifying, I'm feeling really ashamed right now. I'm disappointed. I feel let down. I feel um overwhelmed. Just naming and putting words to the emotions uh calms your nervous system down. Once you're able to calm the nervous system, then you can start to soothe. So, this is when you're going to be able to use breathing techniques, grounding techniques, etc. to get your your physiological state back into a calmer place. After that, you have to explore. So this is where we start to make meaning of what's happening and then talk about it with somebody, process it because when we're in relationship and when we can connect with other people, especially in those dark moments, it helps us to be able to not fall back into that spiral again. >> Okay, you you dropped a bunch of gems. I love the phraseology. Thank you. The the kids were what would they say? Dropping bars. >> Dropping the bars. >> Dropping bars. Like gold bars or musical bars. Either way, they're good. >> Yeah. Um, thank you. You you took an expression and you twisted in a way that I'm like, huh, got my head scratching. I thought you were going to take it somewhere else. Again, this is how like I think my brain must be broken. When you said if it's a hysterical reaction or what was the word you use? >> Yeah. If if your reaction is hysterical, >> if your reaction is hysterical, I thought you were going to say you should just laugh and move on. >> That's what I would do. Like that was ridiculously stupid. Not so. >> What a dumbass thing to even be thinking about. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. And then you say it's historical. Okay. That's also I think that's a clever way of saying your past present connection. Correct. So they're rooted ideas. We have different ways of remembering these things. >> Yes. >> You haven't answered my question though. >> What's the question? >> My question is why do people do this and why don't I think this way? >> I agree with you. It's changeable. As a teacher, I don't think you even have to be a therapist. As a teacher, coach, consultant, adviser, therapist, we must believe change is possible. >> Sure. >> And there's this idea called evolution. Not even in man from ape, but just old you versus new you. >> I believe that's very very possible. I'm just curious as to what the how >> doctor I have this problem. People tell me negative things, I can't hear it. >> Yeah. >> Help me understand that. >> Well, I mean, would you would you characterize yourself as somebody who is self-aware? >> Yes. >> Okay. Would you characterize yourself as somebody who's traumatized like has gone through significant trauma in your past? >> Yes, but I'm not traumatized by it. >> Okay. So, but that is different, right, than being traumatized and not necessarily having processed through in whatever form that takes the past trauma right? Um I I would just like I think I've experienced what one what what a person would call traumatic but in processes trauma. >> Mhm. >> And I'm okay with that. Yeah. >> So I don't live in that place. >> Okay. Okay. >>
1 Well, and not everybody respond you could you could have two people that go through the same experience and one responds differently than the other. One comes across comes away with PTSD, the other doesn't. Right. Um science is still figuring that one out of like what it what it is and there's a lot of nurtured nature that goes into that. Anyways, like so there are some key differences though, right? The people that get stuck in it tend to be the avoidant ones. So they're not necessarily the most self-aware. They're the ones that tend to move away from discomfort, right? So there the self-examination piece just isn't there. And in order to overcome something, do you not need to see it fully? Do you not need to understand it fully? >> 100%. I'm in agreement. >> Yeah. So, so there is your key. That's the answer to your question. That's the key differentiator is that and that's what I'm really trying to do with this book is to make that process approachable. I want people to be able to not to lean into the discomfort instead of leaning away because the more that you're able to approach that the discomfort uh to move away from avoidance, the more fulfilled your life will be. the more in tune with yourself and others, the more you'll magnetize the things that you desire because you're not going to be living in a traumatized place any longer, right? But it's when people avoid, it's when people tend to uh lean away instead of leaning in that those same cycles perpetuate and that's where we see people get stuck and feel trapped. So, I think that that is your that what makes you distinct from other people. And that's not to say that they can't get there, but they have to make a conscious choice to be like, I'm not running away from the hard [Â __Â ] and I'm going to face it. Am I allowed to curse? Sorry. >> You just did. >> I just did. Sorry if I'm not allowed to. I'm I uh am not going to run away from the hard stuff and I'm going to lean into it and I'm going to face it. >> Okay. uh to be super self-aware. I'm not going to shame you for dropping an Sbomb. You could say that what the f you want. It doesn't matter. It's your show. Yep. We'll have to just put a little advisory warning for it. >> Okay. Just edit out the the line former. I reset it with stop. >> No. If it makes you happy, please say it. If that's how you like to communicate, please say it. Okay. I think we're getting to some place here. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Okay. A if you're not self-aware, you're stuck. Step one. >> Correct. This is where outside objective perspective, someone who's a little bit more observant, can describe it a little bit better, help you to see into your shadow, your blind spots. That's a good start. >> Yeah. >> And so many people are so afraid of even looking in that they can't even begin that process. But if you want to be stuck the rest of your life, >> be my guest. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Number two, and they're it's connected to number three, I believe, is avoidant. So, I feel uncomfortable, discomfort, therefore I'm just gonna pretend like it didn't happen. I don't want to look at it at all. So, all I think all three are really deeply connected to each other. It's like a chain reaction. >> I'm not used to feeling uncomfortable. It gives me the ick. >> Therefore, I'm not going to look into it. >> Yeah. >> And I have friends that are watching probably right now, and I'm not talking about you. I'm just talking about people just like you. Is they want to gloss over anything that's horrible. Yeah, >> quite literally. There was a gentleman who used to work for me >> and I asked him, \"What's your earliest memory?\" Thinking it's a pretty innocent question. He goes, \"I don't remember anything before 14.\" I'm like, \"Oh my god.\" >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. Are you serious? He goes, \"Dude, I'm telling you right now, I'm not playing a game with you. I don't remember anything before 14.\" And I said, \"Did you have a very traumatic childhood?\" He goes, \"No.\" >> I'm like, \"I'm no therapist, but I believe you have some things you want want to talk to a therapist about. and he goes, \"No, there's nothing here, Chris. That sounds like avoidant.\" Okay. And thankfully, there's a happy ending to the story because a couple years later, after he stopped working for me, he went to see a therapist. And then he later told me it was the best thing he's ever done. >> Yeah. >> And he seemed like a new person. >> Yeah. >> He was doing all the things that we to we talked about that he wanted to do but never did, and now he was doing them. And I'm just really happy for him. He seemed like a much happier person and now he has memories. >> Yeah. See, >> which is pretty cool and I like it. >> Yeah. >> Yes. So, >> well, and let me just say something. Even if you avoid the thing, it still lives in you, right? So, like not only just up here, but in your body it lives. And every time that a situation triggers you, that same physiological response will take hold and you will respond in a similar way or react in a similar way as you did subconsciously back then during that same situation. It's just the way that our memory networks connect to one another. And so, you know, those neurons, we can rewire them. That's the whole idea of neuroplasticity. But you cannot do that if you don't face the stuff headon. And your friend who had no memories for 14 years probably lived his life very dissociated meaning very disconnected from his emotional experience. And a lot of people go through that. I see that all the time in the workplace actually too where it's like people uh you know don't have like any emotional memories. They they can't connect emotionally to people because they never had that opportunity or they avoided the opportunity growing up or didn't have a nurturing upbringing and it really gets in the way for them. Same thing with creatives. You have to connect to be able to sell. >> This makes a lot of sense to me. In other words, the I'm a visual person and people are like, \"You just pick the most violent visuals.\" But that's how it works in my brain. >> Sure. >> Is if you don't take out the trash, it still rots and fers. >> Yeah. It's stinky. >> You can avoid it, but it still rots and it fers and it actually gets worse over time. Yeah. >> Yeah. To a unhealthy level. >> Correct. >> Okay. Drigo, you wanted to say something and then Rosio, did you gesture like you got a thought? >> Oh, you're just stretching your arms. Okay, you do. Perfect. >> Unrelated to your story. You're talking about Matthew and Tina's in the chat and he just said what's up. So happy to see you guys. You know, Matthew and Zena. >> Hey. Yes. He was the truth. >> Yes, Matthew. Thanks for tuning in. Glad that you're here. >> Yes. >> Also, guys, uh Nidi has a book out. I'm going to put in links if you guys want it. People ask people asking in the chat. It's called Working Well, and it's out in in Amazon. You can buy on Amazon, super easy. Or you can just go to a fine bookstore and and purchase it in store if that's your jam. >> Totally. >> Yeah. >> Where you buy books. >> Hector the connector has a question. Hector. >> Hector. >> Wow. What a spirited conversation. Um, I feel like I can relate to you, Nidhi. Um, I had a lot of trauma growing up. I know y
1ou Chris by your podcasts and I hear how you were raised and thank God for your parents for doing such a wonderful job because I think you owe them for raising you the right way bumps and all whatever you you know you had you they gave you the tools um like me I'm going I'm I'm going through this daily how did this happen with my siblings how did this happen with me and I do have the tools and I kind of feel like when you like I do breath work I do um meditation I I do all kinds of things, grounding, but because I need it if I grew up, you know, with different tools, I I would handle it better. But I've I'm seeking out to be a better person. And, you know, thank you for writing that book because I think just listening to you and seeing the book, you know, that's going to be very helpful. But yeah, I'm on a lifelong journey of healing myself, being a better person, period. better father, better husband, better friend, better boss, you name it. >> I love that. >> Wonderful. Thanks for being here, Hector. >> I know you brave the LA traffic and had to go up the 405 >> to the 10 to I'm just kidding. Like an SNL skit here. >> Exactly. >> Thank you guys. >> The ripple effect the ripple effects are profound, right? Like it not only positively influences how you show up, but every person that you engage with gets a better version of you. And I think that's huge >> 100%. I say bring the weather. A cool 72 degrees with a slight ocean breeze, the sun peeking through the clouds cuz you know, you can see somebody walking and they're bringing thunder and lightning, baby. And you want to stay away. So I do the opposite. >> Ah, love that. Love that. Thank you for that. >> Q. Imagine dragons. Thunder and lightning. >> Thunder. Thunder. >> Oh, there's more skills here. I love it. Let's do it. >> Limitless. Look, I love having conversations with you because you've done the work. You have the language. Your word choice is delicious in my mind. And I just like that we can stay in the pocket and have these kinds of conversations. Okay. All right. Let's connect this to sales. >> Yeah. >> Cuz we we want to Okay. It's nice to feel good about ourselves, but let's make some money. >> Yeah. >> All right. Agree. Sorry to do such a hard pivot, but we're here. Okay. Um, how do we use this idea of attunement, understanding the energies and reading and relating, connecting and vibing with each other in a commerce transactional space because you're like, well, I would think naturally if we're out of alignment or attunement, the the likelihood of a deal happening is going to get lowered. >> Yes. >> You're not listening to me. You don't understand me. Uh, we come from different cultures and belief systems. I'm not going to have a good time working with you. >> Correct. versus the people who understand this are like why do they get all the new business? >> Yeah, >> let's let's get into this. >> Yeah. I think that the people that end up being successful in business are the ones that view their clients in a relational manner. They don't view it as closing a deal. They don't view it as a transaction. They view it as a relationship, as a service to the other person to better them, their company, to give them something that will enhance their life. uh whether that's professionally or personally. And I think that when you can approach your sales conversations from a relational standpoint, it makes a huge huge difference. Now, where I see connection gaps, so I talk about these connection gaps in my book. These are missed opportunities for building relationships with people. Moments where somebody asks you uh or shares something and you miss it, right? So, for example, a client may say like they may hit you up and say, \"Hey, I really need help with I don't know, let's let's think about it. I need help with consulting because my staff is burnt out and I really want them to feel less burnt out.\" Great. Okay. So, you come into the sales conversation with burnout in your mind, right? But then as you're talking with them, they start talking about how people don't feel safe sharing and how the workload is really high and all of these factors. And if you miss that, you will then treat the symptom of burnout with well-being workshops and all the stuff that's just putting a band-aid on it versus getting to the root causes, which is psychological safety, which is uh inadequate resources to at to get the job done. That is actually the real root problem. And that's where a connection gap can happen in a sales conversation. We come into
1it with one problem in mind, what how we think we understand the problem. And when the client tells us something different, we don't pivot. We're not flexible enough to adapt and we miss that opportunity to meet their need. >> I understand the concept. >> Yeah. >> Where do we drop the ball? >> We drop the ball by not listening and not asking good questions. And Chris, you know that we talk about this all the time. We have to ask good questions. So, here's the three main traps that I find people fall into just in my years of doing this. People tend to be fixers, avoiders or connectors. The fixers are the ones that think that they understand the problem at hand and instead of listening and understanding and asking more questions, they jump in with solutions. And I have been guilty of this myself. I can fully acknowledge it. Uh but we miss the mark because what the client is looking for is to get a sense that they can trust us to bring the right solution to the table to solve their problem. I saw you post something the other day where it was like people don't buy from the best person. They buy from the person that they trust the most. The person that they feel can get the job done in with the least amount of friction. And so the fixers create frict friction. Fixers create friction, right? Um the avoiders, these are the ones who bypass the emotions altogether. So the client is sharing pain points. There's no validation of the pain point. There's no expression of understanding. they just kind of skirt past and they're like, \"Okay, well, here's what we're going to do.\" That also is a miss. And then the connectors are the ones where we try to relate back to our own experiences, which can land sometimes, where we share, oh yeah, I've worked with XYZ client on this, but so what? The client that's sitting right there with you wants to feel like the most important person in the world, most important person in the room. And if you're shifting the focus to here's what I know and here's what I've done. We're connecting our own experiences yet we're missing the opportunity to actually forge a relationship with the client. So I'll pause there. I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are about those three misatunement types that I tend to notice and that I tend to see it negatively impact sales. >> Okay. I want to respond to that. I also want to tee up our audience who are here live and possibly online for for you to kind of join us in this conversation. Okay, I'm going to give you some some thoughts and feedback on this. >> Perfect. >> Okay, >> you're saying that in sales that we're making the mistake that we're treating as a transactional relationship versus a relational one. >> Yeah. >> Isn't that the problem that they're thinking of it as relational? I think of so many people in the creative space when they work with a stranger like, well, they ask me for a lower price. I value the relationship. I will agree to do it less. and oh, I wouldn't charge my friends this, so I can't then therefore charge you. I thought that was the root of the problem and you're saying, \"No, no, it's the exact opposite.\" Can you help explain that part, please? >> Yeah. I mean, I think you can have a relationship with somebody and still maintain your fee integrity and still maintain your boundaries. Just because you can you have a bond with someone doesn't mean that your price goes down to, you know, accommodate them. Unless that is something that you have built in like if you've built into your model I have I can take on five clients every year where I reduce my fee wonderful great fabulous but if you're doing that with every single person because oh it was a referral or oh this person is a friend you're not going to be in business very long right and in fact I would say that your real friends are going to pay you your fee because they value the work that you're doing they see what you're doing brings meaning and is a service to others and they don't want to short change you in that. Now, sometimes friends can be a little sneaky and they will try to finagle like the lowest price possible. Um, I think that says a little bit more about the friendship though. It's like I want to pay my friends as much as possible or not go with them. I will find a different provider then that meets my price point if I need to. But what's the message you're sending if you're like uh I want you to do it for me but do it for like 7,000 less. Like that doesn't feel good. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, I need to check in with my so-called friends. >> I want to talk about that a little bit. Yeah. >> Okay. I like the word fee integrity. >> Yeah. >> You and I have talked multiple times about our personal and professional business arrangements and we do get caught up in like, oh, how do I say this and this person? And I'm like, you just say like this. I don't give an F if you like it or not. This is how I'm going to do it. I don't care if you're my cousin, >> right? >> I mean, I care if you're my mom, but other than that, no. You gave birth to me. We got we we can work, right? >> Yeah. >> But that's why I generally tell people I don't want to work with family at all >> because family don't pay you full price >> and then they can never be pleased and you're going to feel bad the entire time. >> So I prefer not to. >> But I had heard or somebody tweeted this. I think it was Horosi who said something like if you're a real friend you pay full price. You never ask for a discount. You buy all your friends crap at full price. >> Totally. >> So I must not have real friends because every friend wants something from me and is never willing to pay full price. >> Yeah. with exception. There's like that 10%, but it's not the other way around. So, am I living in a world of uh disingenuous, selfish, self-centered people, or just reality doesn't match up to what you're saying? And I'm I'm just curious about you people. Have more of your quote unquote friends wanted something from you for free or for like not full price? Or is it the other way around? Am I just surrounded by snakes and eels or what? You tell me. Y'all help me out here. Anybody chime in? Okay, Hector, you get grab the mic. >> Yeah, I feel like um family doesn't really get what I do. I'm a professional. I'm a white collar professional day in and day out, but I hang with my family and we're and they're mainly blue collars, so they have no clue what I charge. >> Right. >> And it's way out of their league. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And they probably don't understand what you do and they think what you do is so easy. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Cuz you're not sweating out doing manual labor. That's exactly it. >> There's a respect and integrity within the blueco collar community. This is what real work looks like. You doing that fluffy stuff. >> Correct. >> Okay, cool. All right. Somebody else. >> I think you wanted to say something. Yes. Go ahead. Just grab the mic. Don't worry. >> I think family gets a free pass, but friends, they they it's just that's my dynamic. Family gets a free pass >> because people can't see you. Caucasian female. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, also immigrant. >> Persian. Persian. Persian. >> Persian. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh, Persian pass for Caucasian. >> Okay. For sure. For sure. >> If you're Asian female, your family might be ginormous. So, that free ticket for that family might be incred. Like, I have hundreds of cousins, >> right? >> I'm not exaggerating. I don't even know who they are. Like, we're related. I'm like, how? Tell me. Prove it. You know, so if your family cir
1cle is pretty immediate family, >> no, I have a huge family, too. >> Okay. So, you're saying free pass to the entire huge family. >> Yes. But where I set the boundary is friends. So I think to your to to what you were saying earlier, I have actually had to have some friends in my life where I have said, you know what, >> I feel like you ask a lot of me >> and it is not reciprocal, right? And I am having to attune to you to a point where I'm giving too much. >> I'm not sitting in my values. So family I'm not talking about today because that's a different thing but from my perspective but friends I think there are situations where if it is always about giving to them for free or not at your value I have had to set boundaries there >> okay so we have experienced similar things >> totally >> except for I cut off family too >> yeah well maybe I need to learn from you >> maybe so you're saying if we share DNA >> there's a lot more latitude because you're probably raised in such a way that family is everything family above all >> correct Yes. >> And the worst people who I mean the people who treat us the worst almost always is family. >> Okay. I'm just saying broad statement. >> One time my mom asked me, she goes, \"Hey, um will you consider like taking your cousin on as an intern?\" This is like a blood cousin. It's not like through marriage. You know, right? I said \"No mom. >> I can't.\" And she and she goes, \"Why would you say no?\" I said, ' Because you'll have Thanksgiving dinner and I don't want to ruin that relationship because people who work for me, I expect the very best and I only work with the best. So a if they're qualified, I don't really care if you're my cousin or not, but you're not getting in the back door, but but more importantly, if you come and work for me, you're like, \"What a jerk. Now we can't go to the same functions anymore.\" And I said, \"It's not worth the risk. >> I'm just looking at risk analysis.\" Yeah, >> that's it's not worth the squeeze. Yeah. Okay. Uh, somebody else want to chime in? Okay, now we have to be careful with the mic situation. Yeah, please move over here. Yeah, thank you. >> Uh, I I mean I do my fair share of relationship gigs. The corporates make up for it. >> Mhm. >> Well, wait. You say that you do your fair share of relationship gives >> gigs. Gigs. >> Gigs. >> Cuz she's a speaker, too. Oh, >> but we talk about this too, Chris, that we also do when when it's a a company that we really appreciate or a mission that we're very aligned with that we will we will reduce fee or you know we'll work with people but it has to be only a few like and then the others make up for it. >> Yes, you're a speaker, professional speaker. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, how many of you are here professional speakers? Okay, there's three of us. This is cool. Yeah, this is a very high percentage relative to the room. Highest paid professional speaker per capita for this room. This is awesome. >> Let's talk about it. Can we just sidebar this whole thing? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> When do you decide to do a speaking gig for less? What are the criteria that you use so that you can maintain your integrity? >> If it's virtual, that's that's a little bit easier. >> Okay, I like that. Uh, is that question directed at me or for >> you specifically? >> Um, >> remind me your name one more time. >> Tiffany. >> Tiffany. Yep. >> So, if it's virtual, if I am free that date uh >> if you're free, okay, >> promoting a book >> and can do other book events in that region. >> Okay. >> And if it's a friend, not a friend who works at a corporate, like maybe a friend who's on a commission for their city. That became really complicated. A friend who's on a commission for a city. That's super specific. >> Give me an example. >> That's a real example. >> I know, but I don't know what that means. I don't have friends that are commissions for cities. >> Okay. Can I keep it vague? Can I >> Okay, I'm going to changeize it, please. So, so let's say they're on like the Arts and Entertainment Commission for the city of Los Angeles >> and they want to I speak about disability inclusion and they want to bring someone in to maybe talk about the arts landscape. >> They don't they don't they don't have budget. >> Okay. >> So, that one I will do as a relationship gig. >> All right, Tiffany. >> That that was like too specific. >> You're like, can I make it more anonymous? and you're like that was that was dope. So if it's virtual versus in person because less requirement on your time commuting and the whole bit right okay I get that and if it's you said if you're free I I thought it was because it was free if you have free time and if there's something I if you have something to promote so you see some gain out of doing this and then the last one if it's some weird super narrow thing I don't know how else to describe is that Okay. >> Yes. Uh I'll I'll add one more which is uh >> actually it just escaped me >> when you give me the mic. Now I have the mic. >> You have the mic. Okay. All right. >> Oh. If it's structured as a Q&A versus like a formal keynote presentation. Yeah. >> Okay. So if the mental lift is lower and if it's more casual, you're more likely to say yes. And then you do it. And what's your feelings about yourself in the organization afterwards? >> I feel great. >> Good. Love it. >> Yeah. Awesome. Uh, Drigo, yes, you're a professional speaker. Go ahead. >> The internet said, \"Always free work for family. It's hard to charge and always discount from your friends.\" They said it's easier for them to manage that. >> Wait, wait. Okay. So, uh, family is always free and friends always discount. >> They said it's easier for them to manage that. >> Manage that in what sense? >> Well, >> what do you mean easier to manage what? Getting paid less. Manage expectations. >> Okay. I don't believe you. >> Say because you can always say, \"Oh, I did it for free or did it as a discount.\" >> Okay. There's some questions about that. This is exploding my brain. I don't want to derail the whole conversation. Nidi, I want to bring it back to you and ask you this before I respond to what Tiffany's said. >> All right. >> Go ahead. I'm going to run out of paper, so keep going. >> Okay. >> So, when when do you make these exceptions or what's your rule about doing it for less than book rate? >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I will. It depend. So there are some like payments where I won't even consider it. Uh like >> what >> they offer you money, you say no. >> Yeah. >> What the end the stream right there from the record, your honor. Too late. >> Like what what are you talking about? When would you be given money? You're like no. >> Because uh I'm at a place in my speaking career where I command a five figure fee, right? So um anything low like I so I will negotiate to a point but there is a point where it is just not worth the time energy practice effort. >> Oh I see you're saying something different than I expected. Good twist on that plot. So you're saying when the fee becomes insultingly low, you just accept it? >>
1 Yeah. No, I do not. I definitely >> Oh, you do not accept it? >> No, I do not. >> No, I'm asking you when would you accept it? Under what condition situation? Absolutely not. >> When would you accept under book rate? >> Okay. An example. There's a conference that I'm speaking at in October. Uh they are paying me close to my full fee, but they are also per bulk purchasing my books. So then we have like a supplementation and I'm a signature author for the uh conference. And so I'm also being featured for my book thought leadership. So to me the value ad is, you know, okay, yeah, I'm getting paid under my typical fee, but it gets made up for. I'll have live footage, I'll have video, I'll have audio, I'll have stills. All of that adds adds to it. There's another conference where um they're reimbursing my travel expenses, but they bought they bulk bought 500 plus books, right? Like that's a significant investment in in me. Like that's thousands and thousands of dollars, probably equivalent to my fee. So, you know, those are the situations where I'm like, okay, that that works for me. >> Okay. Any other reasons >> that I would that I uh >> would take less than book rate? >> Would take less than book rate. It has to be worth both of our whiles, right? Like, so if you can't pay me in money, can you give me footage? Can you give me >> You've already said all this stuff. Anything else? >> No. >> Okay. She is basically saying the same thing. >> And mission and mission. Allan reminded me, my husband mission and like if it's like somebody who's very aligned with me in terms of like I really believe in what they're doing. Nonprofits, for example, are one of those where it's like, you know, they actually do have a budget, but they always tell you that they don't have a budget. Okay. All right. then I will consider it. >> Okay. Is it okay if I tear this apart? Nidi, are you >> sure? Are we going to circle back to the other part of the conversation? >> Can we circle back to By the way, if you're just joining us, I'm talking to Ni Kawari. Her new book is called Working Well. It's out everywhere. You can order it on Amazon. If you're enjoying this conversation or the way she says things in her brain, please pick up a copy of the book. >> Thank you. >> You're very welcome. All right. I'm I'm wrestling with myself right now, Nitty. I am biting my tongue. Okay, Tiffany, back to you. Oh, I What? >> I said I'm here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, Drigo went somewhere. That's fine. But I just want to talk to you a little bit. I I want to share quickly. I hate not getting paid full rate. I hate it. And typically the ones who should pay you full rate never want to offer you full rate. And I want to say those people are the people from my own community. Hence, once again, the family will stab you first. >> It's the people from the creative communities, the nonprofits, the do it for a good cause, Chris, we're an education company where we want to empower uh black and brown communities. It's like, so you're saying you want to send a message about building value and holding us in high regard and esteem, but you're saying, \"I'm going to pay you onetenth of what you're normally getting.\" >> Right? >> That's a double standard to me. >> Shouldn't you be paying the most? Because that expression, your friends pay full price. So you're saying you're not my friend then. Okay. Now, my wife would smack me in the back of the hands like, \"Honey, you just went and did the thing for lesson book rate. Why would you do that?\" I'm horribly conflicted. I do feel somewhat bitter about it. And I think to myself, the more I say yes, the more I empower them or enable them to continue doing horrible business practices. They should be the gold standard for our community to say we pay full price for our speakers. You all should charge full price and this is what we're here for. But I believe there's a rotten core to this culture of event organizers promising to give you the things that we want in exchange for real money. >> So the things that you both talk about in terms of promoting your things about uh having assets that is a given, >> right? >> That is not a perk. It's like that happens all the time. And I wouldn't even talk for your thing if we were not missional aligned. That's off the table, too. If you're having a holes about screwing the environment, I'm like, I'm not speaking of your thing. Why would I do that? >> Right? >> So, I feel like we are negotiating against ourselves. And I just I'm just being real with y'all when I agree to do it. Like, but the thing I don't do is to do less. The whole community saying, \"Ah, I manage expectations.\" then you're not a professional in my opinion. Whether they pay you $0 or a million dollars, you owe it to yourself and to your reputation. It's your own personal integrity to give it your best. Otherwise, don't show up. >> I say this in full disclosure that I have showed up not giving an F because like they didn't pay me my price and I felt bad about myself. >> Yeah. >> And I made a promise to myself. Say no or say yes and don't halfass it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Fair. So that's so I just I just am bothered by this concept that this relational thing because my experience has been anything but the relational part is good. I want to treat it like business. The reward for us doing good business together is we can be friends not the other way around. >> So do are you saying then that you don't feel like you have a relationship with your clients? >> I do have a relationship. It's a professional relationship. Sometimes we become friends, but I don't do it to try to get more friends, >> which is the problem. A lot of creative people, they're like, \"Oh, such a cool brand. They're going to like me. We going to be friends. Let's let's play golf together.\" I'm like, \"Oh, no. No, >> no, no, no. I'm not advocating for that.\" So, let me be very clear. Uh, when I talk about relation, like having a relational approach in business. I'm talking about a professional relationship as in you give a crap about this client. You want to be able to make a positive impact. You want to be able to have a service that is going to transform in some way, shape, or form. I'm not talking about being buddy buddy with them. Like I would not call myself as like friends with uh with many of my client. Maybe a couple but not really. >> They're hurt right now. >> Yeah. Well, I mean you know there will do damage control and there's maybe a distinction too. You can be friendly with somebody but not be friends with them, right? So, um, and then you you avoid the murkiness that comes with a close friendship that then turns business, right? That's where things start to get messy. Um, but no, what I'm advocating for is to develop to approach uh your relationships with clients as just that, as like I want to help this person. I want to get to know what their pain points are. I want to make sure that what I'm providing them actually meets their needs. That's the extent of it. I'm not talking about Yeah. Yeah, I'm not talking about >> I just call that being professional. >> Well, but it is a relationship and not everybody approaches it from that standpoint. There are many creatives that enter a sales conversation with I have this product to sell. I am going to pitch it to you. You get to hear my pitch. Let me know if you want it. There's no questions. There's no discovery. There's no curiosity. There's no relationship building. There's nothing. It's just here's what I want to give you. And then the other person is thrown off and they're like, I don't want to buy this. like they're repelled by it because there's no relationship built. There's no trust. There's no, you know, yeah, why would they go with you? And but I say that because there are a lot of people that think that that's the way that you're supposed to to sell. >> Okay. It would take a very confident person to say that in my opinion >> to say >> to say it just the way you said it. Here's my product. Here's my service. The
1se are the fees. These are the timetable. Buy it or don't. >> Right. That to me is like uh either really confident, you're tired of the BS, maybe you're kromagining at this point, or you're arrogant or some version of that. I don't know if you read the Dan Sullivan question book by Dan Sullivan as self-described the most successful consultant or coach. Dan Sullivan says, \"I'm going to ask you this one question. If you can't answer, I'm out. I give you no second chances. There's no redoss. There's no undos. There's just one chance.\" It's very much like what you're saying. Yeah. and he is by his own words the world's most successful coach or consultant. >> So I I don't necessarily view that as transactional or relational. I just view it like I am I have have a very strong gate or filter for who I'm going to allow to work with me and these are the terms and conditions and you'll know if you're right for me and I'll also know if I'm right for you really fast >> if you can just answer this one question. Yeah. And he he details this one story in the book where somebody didn't answer, could not answer it, and came back to him years later having heard all the good things he has done. He goes, \"You had your shot.\" And he goes, \"There's no redo.\" He's like, \"No, there isn't.\" >> Mhm. >> Would you agree though that the majority of your audience is not quite at that level? >> I would agree 99.999% of them are not at that level. >> Correct. >> So, what is the transactional version that our audience is doing that is not that version? >> Yeah. I mean, I think it's showing up, not really asking questions, assuming you understand what the problems are, and then being like, here's what my project is, right? I think it's a lack of confidence that actually drives that approach. Because when you're confident, you can sit down and and actually explore a little bit and be like, okay, so tell me a little bit more. You mentioned in your email exchange to me, this is what's going on. I'd love to hear a bit more. And you talk it through. And then you're able to adapt and formulate your offering accordingly. That's not doesn't mean that you're customizing every single thing. You might, but uh that you have a good sense of actually identifying the problems versus the symptoms and then catering accordingly, right? Like I think that that is a relationally driven approach that is successful. At least it's been successful for me. Every time I sit down to to talk with a corporate client or a person who's booking me for a speaking engagement, I ask, \"What matters to you and what does success look like for your audience?\" and then I cater what I'm providing them accordingly. I don't show up though and I'm not like here's what I got and like you know you can figure it out from there without any conversation and I'm just, you know, putting band-aids on things. >> I want to throw this back to Tiffany since uh Drigo's back here. I want to close this out a little bit and see if there's something you want to add to this. Either a reaction or a question or nothing at all. Yeah, let's try that. >> No, what's going on? Is it out of batteries? >> Is it green? >> It's out of juice. Okay. Tiffany is saying she doesn't have any reaction or followup. Yes. >> Okay. All right. >> I agree with >> Yeah. Who's all y'all? We'll trade mics. Go ahead. >> I think what Nidhi what I agree with Nidhi on is that a lot of my highest paying gigs have been from relationships that I've had for 10 years. I met someone at a happy hour at a nonprofit who now works at a different organization. So, I think that's what you're talking about of building deep relationships where you're not going in with the transaction right away, per se. >> Correct. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And it's still a professional relationship. Correct, Tiffany? Yeah. It's not like you're like besties with this person. It's that you've gotten to know them well and you now have built a trust within with them to where they want to book you to come and speak. I do wonder if some of your clients think that they're your besties, but you don't see it that way. >> It's possible. >> It's sassy. >> I am friends with a couple of my clients, right? Like um I mean I don't I mean like she Raina and I have collaborated and are collaborating and I consider her a friend, right? But you know there are other that that's rare. That's a very rare You're special, Raina. There's a it's a very rare situation for me to have uh anything beyond a professional relationship and I also have really firm boundaries because of my therapist background, right? So, I can't I'm friendly towards lots of people, but am I friends with them? No. >> Got it. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to prompt our live audience if you want to fire off some comments or questions, we'll have Drigo read them. I just want to ask you to be clear and succinct because he can't read a lot of things like that. So drop in right now and if there's something really good that he feels is going to contribute the conversation, we can do that. But we're going to move on. >> Yeah, please. >> Okay. >> So the other part that you said, which I am 100% on board with, is that we don't ask great questions and we're not really listening because we fall into one of three categories. >> You're the fixer. >> I think you think you have all the answers and your value to the world is like, I got it. I got it. and you're going to jump to conclusions and pre-diagnose and prescribe solutions before you even really understand the other person. Okay, >> we have a lot of those people because our society rewards people for having answers. >> Okay, to the avoiders. The avoiders is like, I hear something, I'm going to just jump right over it. Now, I would say like men probably fall into that category more than women because like, oh, sounds like emotion. I'm going to run away from this, right? And I admit if I see another man tearing up, I'm going to look the other way cuz I'm like, I'm going to give you some space, bro. Compose yourself and we'll get back to it. Cuz I feel the more I look at that person, the more guilt and possible shame they may might feel in the moment. >> I'm okay with emotion. I just >> That sounds like a projection onto the other person. >> Who knows? >> Perhaps you feel guilt and shame when somebody's watching you and you're deeply emotional. >> Maybe. Maybe. Uh but like say for example like somebody has a wardrobe malfunction. I'm like, >> \"Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure.\" >> I'm not projecting there. I don't think. >> No, no, no. That's an that's an embarrassing situation, right? >> Yes. >> So, a lot of men do have struggles with emotion because we're generally taught in most cultures. I think >> uh a man is strong, a man does not cry. Boys don't cry. There's songs written about this in movies titled this. >> So, I believe it's not my imagination. So, I'm like, I'm going to give you some space. But when they cry, I'm like, let it out, bro. I'll give you a hug right now. Cry as much as you want. They say, I'm sorry. It's like, no need to be sorry. Genuine expression of human emotion is a beautiful thing. >> Yeah. >> I don't think I'm projecting. Okay. >> Number three is the connectors. >>
1 Yeah. >> I like the concept. I don't like the word, but I like the concept a lot. >> Yeah. >> Now, we're taught that empathy is a really good thing to have. >> And we think the demonstration of empathy is you're having a moment. Let me make it about me. I'm going to tell you about how I was abused and traumatized. And then the other person like this ain't about you. >> Correct. Yeah. >> I have Okay. So I have friends that hit all branches falling down that tree. They want to fix you. They are not processing what you're processing or they'll just subject or just throw themselves into the story like it's all about me now. >> Correct? >> So I I often recommend to people give them space follow up. Don't make it about you. That is not empathy. That's something else. That's about self-centerness. And I think we've been programmed that if I just relate how I lost somebody or lost an animal, then I'm relating to you. >> Yeah. >> That's not what we do. >> No. >> What should we do instead of the connector part? >> Yeah. So, what we want to aim for is to be an explorer. So, the explorers are the ones that are really great at asking deeper questions. They don't take the face value response as it is. So, they'll say things here are some like examples. Could you tell me more about help me to better understand? Could you share a little bit? Right? Like these are prompts to help the other person to dive a little bit deeper into their own emotional experience. And then for you to practice two key skills. One is normalization. Meaning I help you to feel less alone and not like you're out of bounds for feeling upset or distressed by this situation that you're experiencing. And then validating meaning that you you say something along the lines of I get it that makes sense to me that you would feel embarrassed or you would feel frustrated or you would feel disappointed. Right? Those are the really uh core elements of being a explorer and those traits also will make you a successful salesperson. >> Okay. And are there any comments that we need to respond to before I probably move into my last and most important question possibly? Thanks for asking, Chris. There are some comments. >> Read only the very best, the cream of the crop, please. >> Cream. Creme delic. >> Yes. >> I'm new to sales. How would you transition a position to say a friendly state to business or vice versa? I'm still learning. >> That's a pretty good question. >> It's a good question. >> Okay. So, I'm new to sales. How do I transition from a friendly state to a business state? People do get lost in this a lot. We become such quick great friends and now I can no longer ask for the business. >> I used to fall into this trap myself. Now it's become super awkward. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How do we do that? >> So the first step is you have to get past your discomfort of having a conversation about it because you're going to have to address it now, right? And one of the things I recommend to like the leaders I work with when they have a friendly relationship, but now all of a sudden they're having to kind of put like, you know, put some put some expectations in place or have a difficult conversation is to make it light-hearted. It doesn't have to be so serious, but you could say something along the lines of, \"Okay, you know, I know that we're friendly, but I'm going to have to put my boss hat on now. I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't give you this feedback. Here's where we can grow.\" Right? Same type of thing can go with a client. It's like, okay, you know, I know that we're good friends, but you know, I got to put my business hat on here. Here's what my fee is. Here's what my expectations are. Does that work for you? We can stay friends regardless. Like, it's not going to affect the relationship. But if it's not within your price point, if it's not something that you think you can move forward with, that's okay. Just let me know. But I think having that conversation is really important and people avoid it because it's uncomfortable, especially when the boundaries have already blurred. Do you say it the way you just said it? >> Sometimes, yeah, sometimes I literally will, like for my clients, for example, um I'm thinking back to therapy clients, uh who I am friendly, not friends with, I will let them know like, \"Hey, I got to put my therapist hat on here, right? I would not be a good therapist if I didn't gently nudge you about this thing.\" >>
1 Time out. You just said it two different tones, by the way. >> Yeah. >> Did you pick up on that? >> Yeah. When you put your therapist hat on, you sounded like a boss. >> When you said, \"Oh, I got to put my business boss hat on.\" It sounded very soft to me. >> Yeah. >> Well, you're leading with the friendship, right? You're you're acknowledging we have a different relationship. And I'm also signaling. So, here's the attunement piece. I am also signaling so the other person can read my cue that, hey, this is a gear shift now, right? I'm changing my demeanor and they will pick up on that subconsciously and consciously and subtle shifts like that is how we get others to attune to us and how we attune to others. >> Is this like uh pacing and leading? >> It can be that's a part of it for sure. I mean think think uh body language, think tonality, think cadence, think physical posture, uh think proximity. All of these things play a role in whether people feel connected or disconnected from you. And you can have hard conversations while maintaining connection. That is the misconception people have. >> This is fantastic. I used to have trouble walking with people earlier in my days. Like who who's walking first? It's just super awkward and weird. It's hella awkward. I'm just going to put it out there. Like am I following you? Are you following me? Like we're like crossing over each other. It's so weird. And I think that is the visual representation when we're out of attunement. >> Yes. >> Yes. These days I don't have that much problem anymore. I don't know why, but I feel better about myself. Maybe we walk and we talk and then if I want to go across this way versus the path we're on, I'll just pivot internally like do is it cool if we go this way? >> And then Yeah, let's go this way. Like I think it's over here. So, and then we're in sync, in stop, in pace, in alignment. And then we just gently pivot and we redirect. Yes, >> that's the visual version. Okay, the visual version. So, you were like, \"Hey, I'm going to put my therapist hat on here. >> Here's here's the thing. I would be doing you a disservice.\" So, here's the other piece. You make it about what's beneficial to the other person. So, in the client situation, it's I really want to give you the best service possible. I want to make sure that you get the best out of me and here's the price point to accomplish that. And if you can't afford that, that's totally okay. I will still be your friend. and I will still be close to you. We just won't be able to work together, you know, and and that disar, you know, I mean, you land the plane. You got to be like direct, clear is kind, right? You got to be direct. Um, but you can do it in a softened manner. Same thing with the leadership conversation. Hey, I've got to put my boss hat on. There are some there's some pieces of feedback that I need to provide you because I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't provide you growth edges in areas that I know that you can expand your skill set. You want to be able to progress in your career and this is an imperative part of that. You make it about the other person and I can tell you in all of my interactions it has been successful because people feel like oh my gosh like you are thinking of what's best for me. You're not doing this because you want to be mean or because you're trying to put the hammer down and be like I don't want to work with you. You're doing it because you want to give me the best quality service. >> Okay. Quick poll. Not a conversation or a dialogue. Quick poll. What Nidi just said. Have you been able to do or do you think you will be able to do? Raise your hand if you think yes. Have you been able to do? >> Great. All right. Yay. Oh, >> fantastic. >> Excellent. >> Okay. I want to point it out for our audience. Drigo, give me one second. I want to point out for our audience, I think Nidhi shifted gears in that car three times. >> Okay. First, serious gear. Uh, put my therapist hat on. I'm putting my business strategy hat on. I'm putting my graphic designer and my packaging design hat on. >> Yeah. >> Shift gears. Like, whoa. What? You just rock the boat there. Shift gears twice now by saying, \"I think I'd be doing you wrong a disservice. I'd be doing you dirty.\" Whatever language you want to use. So, you make it about them. Oh, we're back to cruise. Everything's cool. And then you shifted back into the hard gear again, which is in order for us to proceed, I need to charge you money to do this thing. That's the thing you don't want to hear, right? And like all of a sudden, it's about business again. And then you're like, \"No, shift back.\" So that's the fourth shift, which is totally cool if you don't want to do this. We'll still be friends. Everything's cool. >> Yeah. >> And we are on our way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Love it. >> Okay. Everybody understand? >> Beautiful. >> Drigo, >> you said something. >> You mentioned pacing and leading and the audience doesn't know
1what that is. They want clarification as we're shifting gears. >> Okay. Ni, can you help me out there? >> Pacing is going to be literally the pace of the conversation, right? So, like Chris, when you speed up, I speed up. When you slow down, I slow down. We're matching. We're matching. We're becoming in sync. Like think about but there let me caveat that with one situation which is when people are in a stressed state you do not want to match that tenor. So if a client is coming to you and they're like oh my god ah like things are falling apart. You do not want to meet them at that same level of intensity. This is where co-regulation which means that my nervous system is now going to bring down their nervous system. I'm going to intentionally slow down and be like whoa oh my gosh it sounds like there's a lot happening. Hold on. Let's take it one thing at a time. I'm right here with you. Could you repeat? Right now there's like it's like a breath that they get to take and exhale because I'm in control now. They're out of control. I am now in control. So that is one instance, one caveat where the pacing you you want to you want to modulate that like you want to be able to to do something different. Um and what was the second word? Pacing and >> leading and leading. >> But you just jumped to leading on that one. >> Yes, that is leading. Yeah. Yeah. So taking so taking the reigns of the conversation when needed. Uh now there are you're going to have to read people's cues here because there's give and take and reciprocity when you're attuned to somebody. So there are sometimes where the the client is going to be leading. They're going to be expressing what their concerns are. They're going to be asking, hey, asking you questions. And then there are going to be times where you're going to take the lead where you're like, okay, well, here's how I envision myself supporting you in this. Here's kind of what my offering is. How does that fit with you? What are your thoughts? what are any objections that come up for you? That's where you're going to take the the lead. So, there's a give and take and a reciprocity, but you have to get really good at reading cues, which is one of the four attunement skills, which I did not cover yet, which we should Did I address it, Drigo? >> Okay, he's giving me a thumbs up. All right, >> that does actually lead me to our very final question here is you talk about the four domains of attunement, which you are tipping at in the book Working Well. Can you break down those and give us a quick example of each? So there are four domains of attunement. >> Yeah. >> What are they >> and how do we use them? >> You can remember the four domains with the acronym Frisk. F RSC. Uh F is for flexibility. R is reading Q's. S is self-regulation. C is collaboration. So flexibility that means that you're agilely able to respond to people's needs. When they need to pivot, you pivot. when they need to stay on something, you stay on something. You come in with an agenda, but they have a different agenda, you're flexible and you adapt accordingly. Doesn't mean you don't circle back to your agenda. It just means in that moment that's not what's needed. R is reading cues. So, this is where you notice the micro shifts that happen in people's demeanor are and this can be a little tricky with
1neurode divergent people, right? Because eye contact might be a little bit different. So, just know who you're speaking to. But generally, people will make eye make eye contact with you. their body language when they're open to you will be open. And if it's not, it means that they're inhibiting their emotional response to you, right? Uh what's their tone of voice looking like? What is the cadence sounding like? All of those are going to be cues to be paying attention to. Then you have self-regulation. So this is your capacity to manage your own physiological and emotional response. So you're going to need to do 478 breathing. When you start to notice that you feel overwhelmed, breathe in through your nose for 4 seconds, hold in the breath for seven, exhale through your mouth for eight. Ground yourself. Notice your feet on the ground, right? Observe your body touching the chair beneath you. All of that is going to help to, you know, like let your nervous system know, hey, I'm safe. And then the last one is collaboration. So this is just simply recognizing and communicating and creating a felt sense that we are an allied front. we're on the same team, that we want the same mutually agreed upon outcomes, and I want to hear your feedback, and you want to hear mine. It's as simple as that. Four really easy skills that have an outsized impact. >> Okay. So, if I want to be on the same vibe, channel, frequency as the other person, a word we call attunement. >> Yes. >> Then first, I just need to make sure that I'm flexible in what it is that we're going to do. So if I want to go to the beach and you want to go to the park, I first need to listen to you kind of understand and explore that as an option. I maybe that's a better option or eventually I can say, \"Hey, what about what about the beach?\" >> Okay, cool. >> Reading cues. This is a tough one. >> Mhm. >> The concept is clear. >> Yeah. >> But it's quite difficult. >> Yes. >> People are not paying attention to body language. They're not paying attention to micro expressions. They're not they're paying attention to tone >> or word choice. How do we get better at that? >> I think in a sales context, this is one of the hardest skills for people because you'll notice that when you mention your budget to somebody, the tone changes, right? All of a sudden, it went from this like great vibrant back and forth to, oh well, wait a second. I'm going to have to check in with XYZ manager. We're just going to have to make sure we have the budget. All of a sudden, now the tone has shifted. That is a cue to you though. Okay, there's an objection. there's something that is making this a not a no-brainer for this person and I need to explore what that is. Or let's let's take a different context. Let's just say that you're having a difficult conversation with somebody and you notice that their demeanor starts to become more defensive. Their posture is a little bit more slumped. That is a cue that something you're communicating, not necessarily the words, but the way in which it's being communicated needs to shift because you're evoking a defensiveness in the other person. And then you adapt accordingly. That's where the flexibility skill comes back into play. It's like, okay, huh, I just gave you this feedback. Your arms are crossed. You're leaning away from me. Clearly, I have said something in a manner that is not being received well. So, let me explore that. And simple questions like, you know, hey, I just wanted to check in. How did that land with you? Or I'm curious to know what are your thoughts on what I just shared is enough to kind of expose what's happening. >> Okay. Since we're talking about sales in your example, you drop the price finally. >> Yeah. >> And you have a funny response to it versus an emphatic joyful yes. >> And they're like all of a sudden Bambi on ice. >> Mhm. >> What is the way that you can check in with them? >> What are phrases that you like to use? >> One that you taught me, Chris, all those years ago that has been served me very well is, you know, hey, at first I name it, right? So, here's like the acknowledgement. Hey, I just noticed that, you know, there might be something that is still feeling un like you might be feeling unsure about. I'm just really curious to know what would make this a no-brainer for you. Like, what would allow you to go back and be like, \"Hell yes, I want to book this person right now and pay her full fee.\" And that opens up a conversation. Sometimes people will be like, \"Oh, nothing.\" Like, it's not it's not a question of that, right? Uh other times I have heard from somebody or from clients like yeah well you know I think if we added in XYZ it would just make it even better and I'm like let's talk about that then. So sometimes like even just simple questions like that can uncover the objection that was hidden previously. >>
1 Okay. Excellent. Reading the room. We're good. Some nods here. Excellent. I think the second most important thing in the FRSC thing is collaboration. Yeah, >> we're allies in this endeavor. >> I find this to be a very difficult thing for most people when they're a sales mindset. >> We're actually not allies. I have something I want you to do and I can't put my need to make money over your need to do the right thing. >> Yeah. >> And we see it all the time because we have more examples in sales transactional relationships than we do the opposite. And we have normalized bad behavior by the way. >> How do we reprogram oursel? >> I think this circles back to what we had talked about earlier which is be having a relational approach. So I think when you approach sales conversations as I'm just trying to get money from you, people smell it a million miles away and they are absolutely repelled by it. like it's repulsive to them because ultimately what they want they will give happily give you that money if they get the sense that you genuinely care about them their business the things that are going to change for them as a result of the service you're providing. So that's what you want to connect with is hey like help me to better understand what's the biggest pain point that you're experiencing right now and how do you see what I'm doing or here's how I envision what I do as a solve for that is going to be a relational approach that will help you to close the deal much more effectively than any transactional approach will >> okay so the four domains of attunement meaning if you're feeling out of sync and you want to work on this and be on the same page whether Whether it's in a corporate environment >> with a manager or a subordinate, whether it's in a partnership with your spouse or long-term partner, we're not in sync. We're not sharing the same wavelength, or in a business context, when you're trying your best to serve a customer, you can't understand why you keep losing opportunities. The four things are FRSC. Be flexible. Read the cues. Self-regulate meanings. If you're feeling like you're a little funny, learn to like chill out. Chill. Yeah. >> And collaboration, which is how are you an ally in this? Are we on the same page? Are we working as a team versus you want something >> correct? You got it. >> Okay. Yep. >> Now, if those ideas sound enticing and you want to work on that, tell me what we're going to get in the book. >> Yeah. All of this and more. Um, all of this and more. Um, yeah, it's the book is juicy. The book is juicy. Don't be deterred by the title. The title had to be what it was because my publisher wanted the word. >> We love them. >> We love We love my publisher. We love my publisher. Love you, Penguin Random House. And also, this book is uh it is self-help psychology forward with a business tinge to it. So, don't be deterred by that. And and just know that the book is broken up into three sections. Uh and it's very meaty. We have the get in tune with yourself section which is all about these limiting beliefs, past present connections, attachment, all the stuff that we never think about in a business in a work context. Then we talk about getting in tune with others where we cover the connection gaps. We cover these misatunement styles and what we should work towards. We we talk all types of uh different case studies of how people have done this well. And then I have a very helpful framework at the end of the book called the check-in framework which will provide you the exact language and guidance to have hard conversations with clients, with your boss, with your partner, with whoever you need to. Um, it really has been beneficial to everybody I've worked with and I hope it'll be beneficial for you too. >> Okay, that was fantastic. >> Thank you. >> There's some silent applause in the room. Thank you. You guys can applause. You can make noise. Thank you very much, Nidhi. >> Thank you. This conversation absolutely did not disappoint. You overd delivered in value as many of our conversations have gone in the past. That's one of the reasons why you keep hearing collaborations between Nit and myself. Super smart, experienced lady who's thought about these things in way deeper, more profound ways than I have. And I want to thank you for coming on the show. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. And I want to wish you the very best with your book. Let's help her to get this on some list, y'all. Best seller list. That's what we want, right? We need to move some books here. So, if you've enjoyed this and if you want to be a friend and not the rat bastard kind of friend, you pay full price. >> That's right. That's right. It actually is 7% off on Amazon right now. So, whopping 7% >> discount, man. 7% >> wower. >> Why isn't it more than that? >> I don't know. >> What the heck? What the heck? Amazon, Penguin, Random House, whatever. Okay, we'll get to that. Let's wrap up the show, but I want to do one weird thing after the rap. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. So, stick around. We're going to do a role play. >> All right. Oh, Lord. >> Jeez Louise. >> Read the cues. >>
1 All right. >> All right. Here we go. >> Um, I want you to look at this camera. >> Okay. >> And I want you to say your full name. So, I am or my name is. And then you just say you are listening to the future. >> I'm Nidi Tawari, LCSSW. And you're listening to the future. >> One more time, just a little bit slower. >> Okay. I'm Nidi Tawari, LCSSW, and you're listening to the future. >> Bingo. Bango. Okay, Jiggle, we good? >> All right, live. Wait, did you just cut the live? >> You don't have to cut the live. It's okay. It's too late. >> The live is done. >> The live is done. The life.",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-joIfKmSpMQ",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/-joIfKmSpMQ",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-joIfKmSpMQ/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:5471,duration_display:"1h 31m",view_count:0,published_at:"2026-04-21T13:24:22+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Win Clients With Attunement | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do and Dr. Nidhi Tewari explain how attunement is the underrated skill you need to overcome rejection, build trust, and win more high-value clients.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-04-21T17:49:26.194751+00:00",updated_at:"2026-05-18T14:21:25.548486+00:00",faq:$R[88]=[$R[89]={answer:"Attunement is the ability to get in sync with yourself and others on an emotional and even biological level. In business, it's the foundation of trust. By being attuned, you can understand a client's true needs beyond what they say, making them feel heard and increasing your chances of winning the deal.",question:"What is attunement and why does it matter in business?"},$R[90]={answer:"Fear of rejection causes you to play it safe and avoid bold opportunities. According to Dr. Nidhi Tiwari, rejection often triggers deep-seated feelings of shame, making you feel you are not good enough. This leads to under-charging, avoiding negotiations, and ultimately, losing out on business you deserve.",question:"How does my fear of rejection affect my ability to win clients?"},$R[91]={answer:"You likely struggle because of limiting beliefs inherited from your past. Messages you received in childhood about the value of creative work or your potential for success create an internal script that sabotages your confidence. To charge what you are worth, you must first identify and challenge these historical narratives.",question:"Why do I struggle to charge what I'm worth, even when my work is good?"},$R[92]={answer:"No, you should maintain your 'fee integrity.' True friends and family who value your work should want to pay your full rate. Giving discounts devalues your expertise and can lead to resentment. As Chris Do advises, it's often better to avoid working with close friends and family altogether to protect the personal relationship.",question:"Should I give discounts to friends and family?"}],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:18275,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"attunement in sales",secondary_keywords:$R[93]=["how to win clients","overcoming fear of rejection","sales psychology","creative business challenges"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[94]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[95]={id:"f003580e-aca3-47b5-ad59-176dde85cf0c",video_id:"d7bgouAH3ns",title:"If I Wanted to Build a Personal Brand in 2026, I'd Do This First",slug:"personal-brand-framework-unbland-yourself",topic_tag:"PERSONAL BRANDING",secondary_tags:$R[96]=["BRAND STRATEGY","POSITIONING","CONTENT CREATION"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do explains why most personal branding fails and provides a framework for building a memorable brand by defining who you are, not just what you do.",pull_quote:"If you cannot be number one, do not even play.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[97]=[$R[98]={headline:"Own a Category to Win",explanation:"The market disproportionately rewards the number one player in any category. Instead of competing in a crowded field, redefine your niche until you can be the undeniable leader."},$R[99]={headline:"Your Brand Needs an Enemy",explanation:"People unite more strongly against a common enemy than for a common friend. Identify what you want to eradicate from the world to create a powerful point of view and a clear mission."},$R[100]={headline:"Vulnerability Creates Connection",explanation:"Presenting a perfect, polished version of yourself creates distance. Sharing your vulnerabilities, quirks, and even embarrassing stories makes you relatable and builds authentic connection."},$R[101]={headline:"Your Appearance Is a Tool",explanation:"Clothing and aesthetics are not trivial; they are powerful tools for non-verbal communication. Use your appearance to intentionally signal your difference and reinforce your message."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>The Professional Mask\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>There is a version of you that goes to work. This version says the right things, plays its cards close, and carefully avoids upsetting anyone. It wears a professional mask.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For many, this mask is a survival tool, a social lubricant learned from a young age. \x3Cem>âWe have been socialized to blend in to get along,â\x3C/em> says Chris Do, founder of The Futur. This pressure is amplified across social media, a landscape rife with fear of backlash for expressing a true thought or a unique style.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do this for long enough, and a strange thing happens. You forget who you are. The mask fuses to the skin. Your core beliefs get buried under layers of conformity, and the fear of going against the grain becomes paralyzing.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is the state of blending, and it is the death of a personal brand. In his new workbook, \x3Cem>Unbland Yourself\x3C/em>, Do argues that the first step to building a meaningful presence is not a marketing tactic or a content calendar. It is a process of excavation, of rediscovering the person you were before you were told who to be.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Itâs about remembering what you wanted to be at seven years old, before a plan got derailed by practicality and pressure. Itâs about breaking free from the self-imposed rules that box you in.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Invisible Fence\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>We are conditioned by invisible fences. We learn an arbitrary perimeter and never test its boundaries again, long after the fence is gone. Do illustrates this with the classic story of a dog trained with an electric shock collar. \x3Cem>âAfter a while they learn that there's a perimeter and you can just take it off and they never cross that boundary,â\x3C/em> he explains.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Itâs the same principle as an elephant tied with a simple string. As a powerful adult, it could easily snap it, but because it was chained as a baby, it never tries. Its mind is bound, not its body.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âWe are like that,â\x3C/em> Do says. \x3Cem>âWe learn really fast about what we can and cannot do according to certain societal norms and then we play small the rest of our lives.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For Do, his own invisible fence was the fear of damaging his successful design agency, Blind. When he began creating video content with Jose Caballer in 2014, the central question was: \x3Cem>âIf I am myself, what kind of negative impact is it going to have on my business?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The process of unblanding was a series of measured steps. What happens if I dress this way? What happens if I say this thing? What he discovered were two critical truths. First, nobody is paying that much attention. Clients are busy thinking about themselves, not dissecting your every social media post. Second, the world has a much wider level of acceptance than you think.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Once you step outside the fence, you realize it wasnât real. As the saying often attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. goes, \x3Cem>âA mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions.â\x3C/em> Finding out your rules are self-imposed is a liberating moment. \x3Cem>âYou can't put the genie back in the bottle,â\x3C/em> Do says.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Stop Talking About What You Do\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Most aspiring personal brands make a fundamental mistake. They talk endlessly about what they do, not who they are.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The internet is filled with templates for the roofing contractor, the web developer, the video producer. They all say the same things. The problem is, so does everyone else who does that exact same thing. This creates a noisy, undifferentiated market where clients are overwhelmed.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is the \x3Cstrong>paradox of choice\x3C/strong>, a concept popularized by psychologist Barry Schwartz in his book of the same name. The more options we have, the harder it becomes to make a decision, leading to paralysis. When a potential client cannot tell you apart from anyone else, they simply shut down and choose no one.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Talking about what you do is not building a personal brand. It is creating tutorials. \x3Cem>âIf we put a robot voice on you, but it's the exact same script and we blur your face, would anybody be able to tell it's you?â\x3C/em> Do asks. If the answer is no, you are not sharing your philosophy. You are not building a brand.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The solution lies in a blend of utility and identity. You must provide value, but you must also weave in your story, your beliefs, and your personality. This is how you create meaning. Do uses a classic branding example to make the point crystal clear.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âWater's water,â\x3C/em> he says. It is a free, abundant commodity. Yet we walk into a store and willingly pay two dollars, or even twenty-five dollars, for a bottle. Why?\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The answer is the story. The provenance. \x3Cem>âThis came from the Swiss Alps. This was never touched by man. This is vapor distilled,â\x3C/em> Do explains. \x3Cem>âMarketers have learned that we need a story. Humans are meaning making machines.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>When you only talk about what you do, you are selling the water. When you share who you are, you are selling the story. That is
1what allows you to command a premium and build a loyal following.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Courage to Be Disliked\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>When you start sharing your story and your convictions, something predictable happens. Not everyone will like it. This is not a failure. It is the first sign of success.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âPeople are so afraid of alienating everyone that they wind up saying nothing to everyone and they're just blending themselves into oblivion, into irrelevancy,â\x3C/em> Do warns. A true brand must both compel and repel.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>It should compel people who share your vibe to lean in. It should repel those who do not. This filtering process is essential. When you get comments like, \x3Cem>âDress your age, bro,â\x3C/em> or, \x3Cem>âWho do you think he is? He's trying too hard,â\x3C/em> itâs easy to feel the sting of criticism. But Do sees it as a data point. These comments are often a projection of the commenter's own insecurities and limiting beliefs.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He shares a story about his friend, Trevor York, at a mortgage industry event hosted by Neil Dhingraâs company, Forward. Trevor, a straight-laced professional, gave Do a hard time about his fashion choices. \x3Cem>âI could never pull off that man-bag that you're wearing, that purse,â\x3C/em> Trevor said. Do challenged him to try it on. The women in the room immediately complimented him. His limiting belief was based on a flawed presumption of how people would react.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Months later, Trevor was sending Do photos of his own outfits, asking for feedback. He was unblanding. This is a common pattern detailed in works like \x3Ca href=\"/watch/your-insecurity-is-your-brand\">Your Insecurity Is Your Brand\x3C/a>, where personal evolution often starts with confronting what makes you uncomfortable.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This principle extends beyond fashion. It applies to dating someone âout of your league,â living in a certain neighborhood, or driving a particular car. These are all perceived limitations. \x3Cem>âIt's really a projection of your own insecurity and your own prejudice,â\x3C/em> Do argues. To build a brand, you must develop the courage to be disliked and stand firm in your difference.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The goal is not to be a contrarian for its own sake. The goal is to be authentic to your own convictions. That authenticity is what makes you magnetic.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Unbland Essentials: A 3-Part Framework\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Knowing you need to be authentic is one thing. Figuring out what that means is another. The work can feel dense and overwhelming. After receiving feedback from his friend Chris Sergio to create exercises with a \x3Cem>âlow intellectual lift,â\x3C/em> Do developed a simple yet powerful framework for defining a personal brand.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He calls it your \x3Cstrong>Unbland Essentials\x3C/strong>. It consists of three core components. If you know one, you can figure out the other two. Imagine three overlapping circles. Your brand lives at the intersection.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>1. The One Thing:\x3C/strong> What is the one word or concept you want to be known for? This becomes your territory, the space you will own in the minds of your audience.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>2. The Enemy:\x3C/strong> What are you on a mission to rid the world of? We are more united by a common enemy than a common friend. Your enemy gives you a clear point of view and a powerful mission.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>3. The Rallying Cry:\x3C/strong> What is the phrase that activates your community? This is your call to arms, your slogan, the chant that gets everyone on the same page.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>To illustrate this, Do uses the example of tech entrepreneur Bryan Johnson, known for his radical anti-aging protocol. Johnson spends millions a year biohacking his body to reverse his biological age.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Let's apply the framework:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The One Thing:\x3C/strong> Longevity.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Enemy:\x3C/strong> Death. Or, more scientifically, entropy: the decay of systems over time.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Rallying Cry:\x3C/strong> \x3Cem>âDon't die.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>The synergy is perfect. His one word is Longevity. His enemy is Death. His rallying cry is âDonât die.â He has a âDonât Dieâ conference and a line of supplements. The entire brand ecosystem is built from these three simple, powerful elements. When you think of longevity, you think of Bryan Johnson. He owns the space.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Unforgiving Rule of Number One\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Owning the space is not a casual ambition. It is the entire game. The world rewards the number one player, and everyone else fights for scraps.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âIf you can't be number one, don't even play,â\x3C/em> Do states bluntly. This isn't meant to be discouraging; it's a strategic reality. He points to research showing the market leader in any vertical is often three times bigger than number two, who is in turn three times bigger than number three. The top three players control the market.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Think about it.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Who was the first person to land on the moon? Neil Armstrong. Who was second? Most people have no idea. (It was Buzz Aldrin).\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Who was the first person to run a four-minute mile? Roger Bannister. Who was second? Silence.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>
1This mental shortcut is how we navigate a complex world. Once a name occupies a space in our mind, it is incredibly difficult to unseat. For a personal brand, this means you must be number one in a specific category. As Do explains, this is the core of effective \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-pick-a-profitable-agency-niche\">positioning strategy\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>When you think of the concept of âWhy,â you think of Simon Sinek. When you think of âvulnerability,â you think of Brené Brown. When you think of modern âstoicism,â you think of Ryan Holiday. They do not compete. They created and own their category.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>So, what if the category you want is already taken? If you want to be âthe YouTube strategist,â but a quick search reveals several dominant players you cannot realistically overtake in a year, you must change the game. This is where specificity becomes your greatest weapon.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>You add one dimension. Just one.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>You are not just âthe YouTube strategist.â You are âthe YouTube strategist for Latin America.â Or âthe YouTube strategist for luxury real estate agents.â By adding a single layer of specificity, you create a new category where you *can* be number one. This is not about quitting. It is about strategic redefinition until you find a hill you can own.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Tools of Unblanding\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Once you know your territory, you must signal it to the world. A personal brand is built on three foundational principles.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>First, you must be \x3Cstrong>intentionally and meaningfully different\x3C/strong>. If you are the same as everyone else, you have a blend, not a brand.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Second, you must have the \x3Cstrong>courage to be disliked\x3C/strong>. As soon as you are different, you will be misunderstood, ridiculed, and criticized. You must be okay with that.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The third principle is the one most people overlook: you must be \x3Cstrong>aesthetically discerning\x3C/strong>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âMore than 50% of our brain is dedicated towards visual processing,â\x3C/em> Do explains. Before a single word is spoken, your appearance has already communicated a feeling, an intention, and a story. The way you present yourself visually is a powerful, and often squandered, aspect of your brand. In fact, many successful brands understand this is a key differentiator, a topic explored in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/what-successful-personal-brands-do-differently\">What Successful Personal Brands Do Differently\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do reframes this concept with a powerful analogy.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âYour clothes are not clothes. They're tools,â\x3C/em> he says. \x3Cem>âAnd tools are designed to solve a certain job.â\x3C/em> A hammer is for nails, a wrench for bolts, a screwdriver for screws. You would not use a hammer to turn a nut. It is the wrong tool for the job.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>So, when you get dressed to step on stage, into a meeting, or on camera, what job are you trying to solve with your tools?\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Most people default to the âcorporate speaker uniformâ: a sport coat, trousers, and loafers. The job they are trying to solve is âbe professionalâ and âbe taken seriously.â\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>But there is a fatal problem with this approach. By adopting that uniform, you are sending another, more powerful signal: \x3Cem>âI'm like every other person that's on this stage. I'm actually not that special. Maybe you guys should ignore me.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>You are using the wrong tool. You are blending.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>
1Doâs own fashion choices, from his hats to his necklaces to his skirts, are a deliberate tool. The job he is trying to solve is to signal that he is different. That his presentation will not be like the others. He is proving his message of differentiation, not just speaking it. His aesthetic choice reinforces his core brand principle.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Imagine the opposite: someone on stage in a generic suit, giving a speech titled âDare to Be Different.â The message and the delivery are in complete conflict. The brand is broken before it even starts. The best way to say you're different is to look different, act different, and think different.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Your brand is the sum of these choices. It's the enemy you declare, the category you own, and the visual signals you send. It is the conscious decision to stop blending in and start standing for something.\x3C/p>",transcript:"The human mind once expanded does not shrink back to its original size. And this is like many things. When you find out that these self-imposed rules that you live by are actually just that self-imposed and not real rules, they're not laws. That you start to be more free. So if we want to learn more about ourselves, we need to put ourselves in a position where we're explaining to people what it is that we know, think, and believe, and judging by their reaction. And if you get enough feedback from different types of people, you might discover something you weren't even aware about yourself. >> Chris. >> Yes, sir. >> Welcome back to the show. >> Appreciate it. >> 2026, big things happening. You just launched uh a new workbook, Unbland Yourself. Tell me a little bit about what inspired that. Unbland yourself comes from philosophically this idea that we have been socialized to blend in to get along. >> And depending on what culture you come from, it's stronger in some than others. But we're wearing in my opinion a very for some people a professional mask. You show up, you say certain things, and you play your cards. You don't try to upset anybody. And then if you do this for long enough, you forget about who you are, what your core beliefs are, and you're you're afraid to go against the grain. And this is amplified across social media. We are so fearful of saying our thoughts, expressing ourselves in our truest self, dressing the way we want to because we're afraid of the backlash. So I'm glad yourself is a culmination of the last three years of research, testing, experimenting in in virtual and in-person in real life workshops where I'm testing concepts to help people figure out this like figure this out for themselves like who were they who were they meant to be in this lifetime? Who were they when when they thought to themselves when they're seven years old, this is what I want to be when I grow up and something happened to that plan? >> Like did you always have the thought of making this book versus like a sales book or like how did this come together? >> I realized that my ability to teach as many people as I want is find out if I do it as an in-person experience or even through through the price barrier. But I believe this is fundamental to our overall well-being, our sense of self. I want to be able to do something that's a standalone thing that can be done at your own pace in the privacy and comfort of your own home that you can go through and ask yourself these deeply personal and profound questions that require a really kind of contemplative reflective moment and is not always conducive to do around people on a certain timetable. So I recommend people go through the book at a certain pace that they feel comfortable with. And the goal is not to try to finish it as quickly as possible, but to learn about things that you kind of bear way deep inside of you and to have some honest conversations with yourself. >> When did you start to unbland yourself? >> It's been a progression of exploring is it safe? Am I going to be okay? I think for me doing video with Jose in 2014 was how I was able to do this at scale. So prior to that point in time, it's not like I was sitting there trying to fit in. I've always been intrigued by this idea of pushing buttons and using the things I say, my actions, and the way that I dress to kind of push people's buttons. And this has happened, but now it's happening at a much larger scale. So it's kind of that that expression of you can't put the genie back in the bottle. So you do it in measured steps like if I showed up and dressed like this and said these things what what is the consequence of that and like like many things there's a quote the quote is something like the human mind once expanded does not shrink back to its original size and this is like many things when you find out that these self-imposed rules that you live by are actually just that self-impo imposed and not real rules they're not laws that you start to be more free. M >> it's it's this uh classic story of a dog who who wears electric shock collar and when they approach the perimeter to a fence that they're not supposed to go beyond it send them a little electric signal. After a while they learn that there's a perimeter and you can just take it off and they never cross that boundary and the same is about an elephant who's when since childbirth
1is is held by chain and eventually it's just a string and they never push past. We are like that. We learn really fast about what we can and cannot do according to certain societal norms and then we play small the rest of our lives. We never realize that once we leave the city in which we we grew up in or we leave the group of friends that we thought this is my core group. I must need them always or the job that we've always had. We learn that the world's much bigger. There's a lot more to us to give. And I think that's one of the most liberating things >> with Jose. I guess what was that chain that you had to let go? Like what was holding on to you? I think the biggest hurdle I had to get through was if I am myself, what kind of negative impact is it going to have on my business? Because at that point in time, I'm still running a service design company doing really big projects and if I say this, does it mean that I lose that? And that was the thing I need to figure out. So, a couple things to learn in that process. Number one, nobody's really paying attention to you in our own little bubble. I think we we falsely believe we're the most important thing in the world because we have no other thing to reference. We're always thinking about ourselves. We're looking at ourselves. We're just dealing with ourselves most of the time. And we don't realize clients are busy. They're thinking about themselves. So, they're not sitting there looking at every social post that you make and just listening to every podcast like, \"Oh my god, we disagree politically. We can no longer work with that person.\" Unless you do something super sensational in a in a way that's not good for you. And and number two is there's a wider level of acceptance for you than you think. So even if they were paying attention, what will inevitably happen is as you show more of yourself, some people get to say, \"I like that guy or I like her or I don't like that person.\" And I think that's a good thing. People are so afraid of alienating everyone that they wind up saying nothing to everyone and they're just blending themselves into oblivion, into irrelevancy. So when you say something and you say something that is based on your convictions, it's not to say it to rile people up. I'm not saying to be a contrarian, to be divisive, but to say things that have meaning to you. It should both compel and repel. It should compel people to say, \"Yo, I get your vibe. I get what you're putting down. I want to be around you. This is cool. Let's chop it up sometime.\" >> And it should repel the people like, \"I don't like the way you think. I don't like that uh expression of whatever. For example, sometimes I wear fashion that is unpalatable for some people. Uh, if I wear some kind of weird skirt short thing, they're like, I don't like that. I don't get that. Or some crazy color or floral print. For some people, some straight people, they might think that's too zesty. You can't do that. Or if I talk about therapy and how that's been one of the biggest uh return on investments I've ever had. They're like, well, don't bring your therapy agenda to this conversation. Everybody needs it. I never said everybody needs it, but if you're searching your loss, it's worked really well for me. I recommend you give it a try. That's all it is. Not trying to impose anything on anybody. For the people who feel called, try it. If not, no worries. Find whoever you think is most aligned with the way that you want to learn. >> So, it was interesting because as you guys know, I work in behind the scenes with the future. But when I get the comments of people that like, dude, dress like you're 50, right? No. When people comment to you, I'm like, oh, like, dress your age, bro. Like, why you wearing a hat? >> Right. But it's like being spend enough time with you. I've been in situations where we've gotten into a car or a cab in a different country and then the guy will be like, \"I love what you're wearing, bro.\" Or going through TSA and people like, \"Dude, are you a famous singer?\" And just a different reaction that you get from people just by the way you dress and how you show up. So it's definitely helped me as I'm growing into my own personal journey with growing personally, but then also fashion. So brings me to my question is I think a lot of us get stuck in a place where we want to make content as we grow a personal brand but we talk about what is it that we do versus who we are. So like how do we how do we navigate that road? >> Okay, some very different things. Before I answer that question, I want to talk about the comments, right? >> Okay, >> everyone has an a-hole and everyone has an opinion. That doesn't mean I want to see either. Let's just put that out into the universe. Okay. >> Yeah. >> And everybody needs to know that. And sometimes they both stink. Now, getting into it. So, I used to not dress as maybe as progressively as I do today. And just the act of wearing a hat bothers people. Like, uh, no one would take themselves seriously. If you walked into me, I would never hire you, bro. Trust me, you don't have enough money to hire me. So, let's start there. You probably have never hired anybody. And these kinds of ideas about asking people to meet you where you are to be able to have the pleasure of your company is ridiculous. We all c
1ome in different shapes, sizes, and have different preferences about how we carry ourselves. To each their own, especially in this country about self-expression and freedom, their first amendment right. We should accept people for who they are or we should just decide this is not for me and that's totally okay. But to project your your values and your aesthetic onto people is just ridiculous to me. Nobody asked you, nobody cares. So people would say things like your hat or uh who do you think he is? He's trying too hard. Or uh every time I tune in there's another necklace and it's just getting out of control. >> Don't forget the skirt. >> Well, they're not even there yet because I don't have enough episodes with that just yet. But there's like oh the chain like oh he's like you could tell he's poor because he's dressed like he's poor and this is what poor people look like. I promise you let's bring those people on the show. You line up here and let's sit here and we can talk about um I don't know net worth. We can talk about accomplishments. We can take it down any dimension you want. And chances are you you probably have me beat in a couple of categories, but to kind of project that energy into the world, I think it just consumes you. So most of the times I look at that, I laugh. >> Here's where it gets real interesting. When you're in real life and people start saying that thing now, you're dealing with heat in real life. But people are very brave behind your back. They're not so brave in front of you. Here's a classic example. I think you were there. We're at Ford. I think it's two years ago and at their at their main event. Okay. Ford is run by Neil Dingra. It's for mortgage professionals and real estate people, right? My buddy Trevor, Trevor York is there. He goes, \"Chris, Chris, I love the way you dress, but I don't fully understand it.\" And he's he's giving me a hard time as a straight white guy. He's giving me a hard time, but with love, Trevor and I were we have a great relationship, but he's like I said, I could never pull off that manb bag that you're wearing, that purse. And I said, \"Are you sure?\" And why don't you try it on? And he would try it on. and all the the women around here that part of the staff's like, \"Oh, Trevor, you look so good.\" He goes, \"Do I?\" So that's a a pre presumption of reception of how people would read you and also a limiting belief about what you can and can't pull off in this life. And the next thing he would do is say, \"Oh, what is that? Did you take that belt buckle off the airplane? Like, do does TSA know about this?\" Trying to give me a hard time. I'm like, \"I'm good with it. You You want to play? We can we can dance, right?\" and and and we have these conversations about what makes you comfortable uncomfortable. And now this is great because Trevor, if you're ever watching this, his game has changed. He's dressing differently and he's like sending me DMs like, \"Hey, is this a good fit or not?\" And so I I like that for each person. It doesn't have to be around fashion. It could be, \"Oh, you never thought you could drive that kind of car or you never thought you could live in that house or that neighborhood or date that kind of person.\" We have so many limiting beliefs. One of the things I that would really bother me about some of my friends then they would say something like this. She's so out of my league. I'm like with that attitude for sure she is like what do you mean out of your league? You mean that some people who are born more asymmetrically beautiful or whatever it is that you think therefore you're less than. She did nothing to earn that. Nor did you if you're like a super stud athlete. That's mostly genetic. I respect the game that you you worked worked out and you're focusing on skills. That's cool. I can look up to that. But the rest of it, like why do we believe someone's in or out of our league? That's a value statement that's just full of judgment that that really bothers me. So, it's these kind of beliefs. I can't wear that. You shouldn't wear that. >> It's really a a projection of your own insecurity and your own prejudice. And I think people need to check themselves. Let's get into your question now. Your question is, why do people talk so much about what they do versus who they are? Because there's a lot of templates out there that exist. We don't know
1what to talk about. We are told from very young age, don't talk about yourself. Don't think about yourself so much. So what do we do? We deflect. We're like, well, nobody's going to complain if I I tell people I'm a plumber or I'm a roofing contractor or I build websites. But you know what? So does everybody else who does that exact same thing. Why should I care about you? What we're realizing is in the 21st century, we have an embarrassment of choices. We're we're kind of inundated and overwhelmed with how many choices we have in the world. In fact, there's a cognitive bias. It's called the paradox of choice that the more options that we have, the harder it is for us to make a decision. And the reason why potentially some of your clients don't choose to follow you or to reach out to you is because they can't tell why you're different than anyone else. And so therefore, they shut down. And you and I both know this. Anytime you need to do something you don't know about, you start to do too much research and you're like, I'm just overwhelmed. That's why it just takes us too long to do something. Stephen Bartlett has had this great podcast or no, it was a keynote talk. He goes something like, \"Back when I was younger in my 20s, I was speaking and some notable person spoke before me, probably head of state, maybe even a former president or something.\" And he says, \"There are two doors. Door one and door two.\" And people make this mistake. Door one, you go in and it locks behind you. You can never leave. there's only path is forward and you're in that door. Door two is a door that you go in and it's not locked. You can leave if you want and choices are like that. Sometimes we mistakenly believe that all doors are door one. You can only make this decision. You can't undo it. And the example he gives is some friend had asked him, should I quit my full-time job and start this other thing? He goes, well, what's the consequence of you leaving? Are you able to come back or not in either in that position or a better position or some other position? And the and the lady said to him, \"Yeah, I couldn't quite come back.\" So, she was thinking too long about a decision that could be easily undone. And so, the greatest problem that we seem to have in modern entrepreneurial circles is we think everything's a door one situation and we can't undo. So, it's not that we make the wrong decision, it's just we make no decision. That's the problem. Getting back to why people don't talk more about themselves. Culturally, it doesn't feel right. >> We don't know ourselves. We have low self-awareness and if we have high self-awareness, we're not quite sure what's interesting to other people. Historically speaking, we are the worst judge of our own value. I could do something, you're like, \"Dude, how'd you do that? Why' you even move that there or put that thing on? How do you know that's going to work?\" And I'm like, \"Doesn't everybody know that?\" You're like, \"Well, I don't explain it to me.\" And then I explain it to you. And depending on your reaction to me explaining to you, I can think maybe I'm on to something. Maybe somebody else like you would want to know this thing. And that begins this whole process of understanding, wow, something I take for granted is valuable to other people. So if we want to learn more about ourselves, we need to put ourselves in a position where we're explaining to people what it is that we know, think, and believe and judging by their reaction. And if you get enough feedback from different types of people, you might discover something you weren't even aware about yourself. You're so aligned with who you are. So, I think it's easier for you to talk about these things because you're well read and you do all these different things. But I think for like a lot of us, me being video production and built my business for the past 10 years around video production, when I like, \"Hey, Chris, I want to make this video about that.\" You're like, \"No, that's boring. Talk about this other thing.\" And I'm just and I just I don't see it like the way that you do. For me, it's so easy like, \"Well, I could build a personal brand talking about video.\" But you're like, \"Well, that's not really building a personal brand.\" But I think for you, you're so aligned that like when you hear when you say this, yeah, it makes sense for you, but like I don't feel like it would work for me. >> What wouldn't work for you? >> Like to not talk about videos, like I don't know how to not build a personal brand around the thing that I've been doing for 10 years. >> Okay, let's clarify. Talking about what you do is not how you build a personal brand. You're basically doing tutorials. Nobody has any sense of who you are, what you stand for. uh your the all the things you've learned in your life, it's just manifested in how to. >> So, if we said this, if we put a robot voice on you, but it's the exact same script and we blur your face, would anybody be able to tell it's you? >> Because you're not really sharing your philosophy and your ways of the world. Now, let's let's uh contrast it against some some people who have very strong personal brands, but maybe not put a lot of value into the world. We were talking to manager John earlier today. He's like, in the OG days, all you had to do is turn on the camera and be a personality. So we got to know those people really well and they grew gigantic accounts and have massive fandoms but to the average person it's like what value did you give to me? So the blend is or I'm sorry the solution is somewhere in between the two to say like I create a lot of value in the world. I give you a lot of utility. I'm useful. I'm helpful to you creating transformation but I'm also weaving in my story about who I am. So you have a choice. Do I want your branded video production or do I want someone else's branded video production? The classic example I always give to and I'm sorry if people are bored out of this until they can understand this concept. Water's water. Water's two two uh what is it? Two molecules of hydrogen and one molecule of oxygen or something like that. H2O, right? When we put that together, we have water. Water's water. Water comes from the sky. Water comes from the earth. It comes from every place. And it's theoretically free and abundant and available. Yet, we all make this decision to go into the store and buy a bottle of water for $2 or $25 for the exact same amount. Why does one command $2? Why does one command $25? And there's the answer is the story that each bottle brings. And there's a fancy word that's called providence, like where something comes from. This came from the Swiss Alps. This came from the Amazon River. This came from parts of Africa or the Canadian glacier. This was never touched by man. This is vapor distilled. They're all stories because marketers have learned that we need a story. Humans are meaning making machines and we need to have meaning in everything that we do. So if you tell the story, I allow myself to accept your meaning. So when you don't tell your story, there's no meaning. There's no connection. >> So if I wanted to start 2026, I want to start building my personal brand. I want to start telling my story. What is that first post that I would start off with? Well, you're talking about the tactics of creating something. Before we can create something, we need to know, well, who the heck are you? And there's a good chance you don't even know who you are. Hence the questions I pose in the book and the workshops. Well, who are you? >> What are your beliefs? What are your values? And what people tend to do is they want to talk about all that they're good at, all the strengths and the beautiful things. We're very used to that. This is why people appear too perfect on TV or on on social media. It's because they're presenting their very best self on their very best day. That's really boring to me >> and it reeks of inauthenticity. So I say to people, look into your shadow self, the things that you feel great vulnerability around, the things that might bring anxiety or make you nervous. Let's figure out how you can incorporate that into you because that makes you much more interesting. Earlier today, we're talking to manager John. He shared this very vulnerable story about how he bought a Ubaked pizza and he didn't know he had to bake it even though it was in the title. Now, I'm ribbing him a little bit, but that story is endearing. Now, people on the other side of the camera are going to say, \"Chris, why you gave John such a hard t
1ime? He's just an earnest guy trying to make it in the world, and yeah, he didn't have your upbringing, blah, blah, blah.\" But they're going to connect to that story >> despite how he might feel in that moment. Those little quirks and the weird things allow people to say, \"You're not a perfect person. I'm not a perfect person. We might have something in common.\" I don't know about you, I'm not perfect. And when I see perfect people, which they don't exist, but they present themselves to be, there's something about it. It feels like they're driving a wedge between me and them, my ability to connect with them is not going to be great. >> I hear you on doing the deep work and trying to find out more about yourself before you make that first post. But I think for some of us, we get so paralyzed of even just doing the workbook. Like some of us can't even make a post just to make a post. So then you said like, \"Hey, you got to do this deep work before you make something.\" Is are you saying that's the only way? >> No, I'm not saying that. >> Okay, >> you can make whatever you want. And in fact, all over the internet is people making whatever they want. It's not stopped them. Some of them will figure it out and some of them won't. But if you want to be more intentional before you make the work, spend a minute. So, I'll give you an example. Uh, what is something that you've wanted to teach, but you're not fully confident that you know how to teach it? >> Storytelling. >> Okay. So, great great answer. So, storytelling. If you want to go out and teach storytelling, you can say, \"Here's what I feel about this, and based on my own life experiences, this is what I know, which could be a great video.\" But a learned person, somebody who's like much more intellectually curious, would say, \"Well, what are the top five books on storytelling? And can I watch movies, read stories, and watch plays, and start to understand the invisible structure that binds them together? What is the thing that makes the top 100 films of all time great?\" And then you could do that research and you can start thinking about it. And then you can maybe come up with a couple of things that are obvious between these things and a couple things that are not obvious that you start to share with the world. You could do this in intimate conversation with you and another person off camera. You could do this in small workshops, virtual workshops and then you start to see what ideas stick and now you have something and when you go and make content around that something you thought about that's going to hit much harder. Can we see the difference between these two approaches? I want to say no because that to me feels like what you just said of like you're a how-to person. >> Like if you're coming if you're like looking at these books like, \"Hey, here are five books for you to go read.\" >> How is that different than what you said to like to be a how-to person? >> Okay, these these are two different arguments we're making. I asked you, can you see the difference between someone who wings it, who doesn't do any research, and one person who does a deep dive and just try to like fill in the knowledge gaps they may or may not have. Okay, >> which one will be more valuable? >> The second one. >> The second one. The problem is most people don't go this path as you know. >> So when you say I don't know how much work I need to do. It's like have you done the basics? >> So now that you have structure right and you've learned these things, when I say learn, I don't mean read, I mean learn like you can internalize it. You can share ideas. What happens inevitably is once you learn something, it gets mutated by your own brain in a good way. You say a little differently. you you embellish this and you remove that and all of a sudden it starts to become more yours and less theirs. Now if you were to learn about storytelling, you're teaching storytelling, one way is mechanically say here's how you tell a story. The other more interesting way is you tell an amazing story and said, \"Do you want to know how I did that? Here's what happened.\" >> That becomes part of your brand. >> But then don't you just become the storytelling brand guy? Yeah, that's what you said you wanted to learn how to do storytelling. >> Well, I wanted to figure out a way out that I'm I just don't become that person because like why? So, what's the difference between me being the video guy or me being the storytelling guy? >> Okay. What is video guy? >> I'm the guy that you come to when you need like videos done. >> And what is it that's the underlying layer that you're selling? >> Views, reach for our clients. >>
1 Is that what you're selling? >> Yes. >> Are you sure? I thought you just selling video production at that point. >> If I'm a strategist to help people get views, conversions, audience building, all that kind of stuff, I don't talk about video production at all. >> I talk about video strategy. >> Okay. >> That's very different. >> Okay. But say I talk about video strategy. >> Okay. >> I thought when you said about being building your personal brand isn't about talking about what is it that you do? >> That's correct. >> So then wouldn't I just be the video strategy guy? Yeah. So, >> you haven't done anything to tell about your personal brand yet. >> So, how do I get started with that? >> There's a couple things you need to do. Um, I I've developed another workbook because I realize unbland yourself is dense book is 100 plus pages. It's deep inner work and people are like their heads are melting right now. So, I was thinking how do I provide a quick win? >> I'll share a story. >> You and I were in Japan with 18 of our friends, some strangers and some some old friends. Uh, I'm I'm I'm having a really good conversation with my buddy Chris Sergio. He goes, \"Chris, I love what you're doing. Can I give you some advice?\" I'm like, \"Sure, please.\" And he's a brilliant guy, so of course I'm gonna take advice from him. He said that what I find to be effective is when there's high frequency of exercises, but low intellectual lift. What that means is instead of giving us a big thing to figure out that we don't talk about for three days, give us lots of little things, quick check-ins, so we feel like we're making progress on things, little tiny tasks. And it's very different than how I think. I'm a deep diving kind of guy. And these seemingly complex problems for me are not that complex, but for for other people, it's very complicated. So I took that to heart. So when I went to do the next workbook, I had the goal of how do we lower the lift, the mental lift, and how do we make it fast, fun, and easy that somebody can do 30 minutes and feel like they have some success. So what I had to do is develop a whole set of different exercises and it gave me a lot of clarity that dare I say I might actually even like more than the 100page book. Okay? So I'll share it with you. There are three things. We'll call this your unbland essence or essentials or foundational layer something like that. And there are these three things. The cool thing is you only need to know one of these things to figure out the other two. >> So what I want you to imagine is either a triangle or three overlapping circles that ven diagram. Okay, where they meet in the middle is where you are in your personal brand and they are what is the one thing you want to be known for? And I'd like to reduce it down to a word if possible. There's some conditions there. So first, what's the one thing you want to be known for? Number two, who's the enemy? What are you on a mission to rid the world of? What do you want to eradicate? And this there are only so many versions of this, right? So it's universal. There's probably 12 universal concepts I just made up that number that everybody's trying to get rid of like hate, poverty, whatever else that they're trying to get rid of the world of, right? Judgment, let's say. And then the last one is, and it's the bridge between these two things, your your one thing, the enemy, the the thing that you're trying to eradicate the world of, and your call to arms or your rallying cry, the phrase that when you say activates your audience and the community. And so, do you know the one thing you want to be known for, Drigo? Or of these three things, what do you think you're clearest about? >> The one thing I want to be known for, >> which is >> a YouTube strategist. as a YouTube strategist. Okay, >> that's what I want to work on for 2026. >> Perfect. YouTube strategist. The the criteria now we have to ask ourselves this question. Can you own this space? Because the world rewards number one, not number two, three or four. If you cannot own this space within a relatively short amount of time, and when I say short, between one to two years, then you should not try. Something from Seth Goden's book, The Dip, is we should predetermine if we're going to be successful. And once we determine we can be successful, we never quit. What people do is they don't think. They try things and they quit. They think and they try things and they quit. They never get anywhere. So if you look up right now on the internet, type on to Google or Gemini or anything and say, \"Who are the world's most for foremost thought leaders in the in the YouTube strategy space? Get a list, double check your homework, and say to yourself, can I with intentional effort overtake them in a year's time?\" If you think you realistically can, I would suggest you go for it. >> I understand >> you're only one thing, right? >>
1 But why do I need an enemy? Like, if I'm just trying to be the like the YouTube strategist, why do we need an enemy for that? >> You need to get rid of something in the world. >> Because we are more united in a common enemy than we are in a common friend. And all the best brands in the world, as far as I know, they have an enemy. And we can go through this exercise if we say like here's a clear clear brand and what are they trying to get rid of in the world? If we can't identify that there's a big part of the jungle that's missing. >> Can you give me an example? >> Yeah. Pick a brand. We'll try this live and freestyle. >> One of your favorites. >> Louis Vuitton. >> Louis Vuitton. Okay. Louis Vuitton is a brand. What is the one thing they want to be known for? >> You're asking me that question? >> Yeah. >> Oh, luxury goods. >> They're a trunks company, by the way. That's what they're known for being a trunk. >> No, no, that's literally what they say all the time. We're not a fashion company. We're a trunks company. We make trunks and trunks or bags, they're interchangeable, those words. That's what they're known for. >> Okay. >> And you know why they say that? >> Why? >> Because that's what they sell the most of. >> So, let's Okay, side detour here. Why did they appoint Fel Williams, who's not a designer, to run one of the most uh profitable, largest fashion houses in the world, LVMH group. Right. Right. >> Why? >> For class. Well, he's been designing fashion that has a lot of mixed reviews. I love Louis Vuitton as a brand. I have yet to purchase a single thing that Fel has done except for prior to him, there's a gentleman named Virgil Ablo who passed away. I'm desperately going through the back cataloges of Grail to find pieces he's designed because he's an exceptional designer. Okay. It's because I'm not looking at their books. They don't disclose their books. I imagine a very small percentage of their sales accounts for fashion. The rest of it is in bags and trunks. >> So they're very clear. This is where we make our money. So what do they want with with Farel? The bags don't change that much, but the fashion does. So what Freel can do is he can direct attention. If you are a nut like myself and you look at fashion, fashion week in in New York or P or Paris, you can see all the shows going and if you look at all of them like from Dior to St. And you look at him, the ones that have the most views LV >> because he brings superstars to the show and he's thinking about it more as like pop culture theater and not just pure fashion. The most recent runway for the winter season, he built a Japanese home and put artificial turf and did this super beautiful lighting. I was like, that is very different. That is different than somebody's like, let's just do our runway here in the middle of a factory. And like I get that there's an aesthetic to it, but this is theater. and he's spending a lot of money building these things to make us want it to make it part of the conversation. Let's take another quite polarizing character. Jaden Smith, Will Smith's son. That Will Smith. Yeah. Jaden has become the first creative director for men's wear for Christian Lubbouton. Okay. Louis Vuitton, as far as I know, doesn't even make fashion. They he makes really amazing shoes. Why did he put this young Nepo kid in charge of this brand? Well, we're all talking about Christian Lubboutan for a minute and it's all over the place and he's a polarizing character who knows how to get attention. >> Right. >> Right. And you don't think Christian Lubboutan knows what they're doing? Like you'd be a fool. And I actually for the first time want to buy something from Christian Lubbouton because of what Jaden's done. I'm not saying all of it's good. It's not. But it's not all meant to be good. >> Now what they understand is this thing called the halo effect, which kind of like what it sounds like. We are going to direct your attention to something then you'll check out the rest of the things and the likelihood of you buying the rest of the thing is great. So they can make five fuzzy boots and not worry that anybody's gonna buy it but because it's being talked about that's what matters. >> Okay. So Louis Vuitton is known for trunks. What are what is their enemy? Maybe you can say like fast fashion is their enemy. I'm not saying they're saying that but you can probably think that that's their enemy. And in fact all luxury brands hate fast fashion. And I hate fast fashion for a lot of different reasons. So what is their rallying cry? I I don't know
1what it is, but you start to map this out. If we spend enough time thinking about it, we can probably figure it out. For all clearly defined brands, we can figure it out. >> I guess would it be easier if we put this to a person versus a a company? >> Okay, >> let's do Brian Johnson. >> Oh, glad you brought that up. Are you familiar with Brian Johnson? >> A little bit. >> Okay. He he is the guy who I guess for lack of a better term looks like a vampire. Yes, >> sometimes he's considered the most measured man. He spends over a million dollars a year biohacking so that he he doesn't have to age. So if we say what's the one thing he wants to be known for? What's the one key word? What do you think that word is? >> Not dying or death. >> Okay. But the word would be something like longevity. >> Longevity. Okay. I see the the twist there. Okay. >> Okay. So longevity. He wants to live for as long as possible. And you can say aging reversal like he he his biological age is going backwards his chronological age nobody can stop goes forward. So when he does all his chemistry and they look at it and his biology they're like wow you're not 48 you're 36 and he takes a thousand vitamins. He's doing all kinds of radical treatments red light therapy. He's doing everything he can to to grow backwards in his age. So he wants to be known for longevity. What's his enemy? What's he fighting against? >> What does he want to get rid what? >> Death. >> Death. >> That makes sense. You see how they're connected now? Yeah. He wants to be known for longevity and he doesn't >> he wants to get rid of death. Another fancier $6 word for death is entropy where systems start to decay. That's called entropy, right? >> So longevity and death. What is his rallying cry to let everyone know we're all on the same mission? Let's go do this thing. >>
1 Do you know what he says? >> No. >> He says, \"Don't die.\" And it's perfect. So I want to be known for longevity. My enem is death. My rling cry is don't die. So he has a conference, the don't die conference. He might have a package of supplements called don't die. So now it becomes really clear and he can build brand extensions from this and it's super clear now, right? So whenever you think of longevity, he owns that space now. So there are a lot of other people like my friend Dr. Ken Vu and he's trying to like be for longevity. I'm like I can't remove Brian from my mind. So, you're going to be number two. And I'm pretty sure the people in the space know Brian Johnson, but they don't know Kin Vu. And that's a problem. >> Okay. >> Now, there's mathematical parts that support this. >> The number one leader in any vertical is three times bigger than number two. Three times. >> Wow. >> Number two is three times bigger than number three. So, basically, the three top players in a market control the entire market and there's like scraps for everybody else. to the remaining 97% fight for crumbs. If you can't be number one, don't even play. That's my opinion. Who's who landed on the moon? Who's the first person on the moon? >> You know, I'm Sean. >> Who's number two? >> I have no idea. >> Who is the first person to run the 4-minute mile? >> Roger Banister. >> Who's number two? >> Couldn't tell you, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, let's say, for example, who is the person who's gonna teach you to unbland yourself? You should say my name. And then who's number two? We don't care. That's the problem. There's there is a and I'll give you the example too. >> But I feel like that's so discouraging. >> Why? You have a system of thinking designed for failure, my friend. >> Well, you're saying like, \"Hey, if you can't be number one, then you shouldn't even try.\" >> You shouldn't even try. >> So, like if I look up YouTube and like the the top four YouTube strategist, you're like, \"Oh, don't even bother.\" So then what do I do? Just >> pick another lane. >> So don't become a YouTube strategist. >> Find a different lane. Simple as that. >> Okay. So you say like Chris, can you be number one in personal branding? Maybe. I'm not sure. But I can definitely be number one in unbann. >> Okay. >> See there's just it's words and words do matter. >> When you think of why, who do you think of? >> Simon Synynic. >> Who else do you think of number two? When you think of vulnerability, who do you think of? >> Bnee Brown. >> Who do you think of number two? That's what I'm saying. If I cannot out research and storytell and do TED talks that is one of the 10 most viewed TED talks in the world and compete with Renee who's written so many books, who's been on Oprah, who's been on every single thing you could think of. I'm not going to try to win that game. I'll try to win a different game. Okay, >> maybe I use the word shadow self, right? Um, are you familiar with a a writer named Ryan Holiday? Mhm. >> The obstacles, the way u I'm spacing he writes a lot of books on on on learnings from Marcus Aurelius and and Senica the Stoics right? >> So he wants to be known as the daily stoic. So when you think of stoicism, he wants you to forget about Marcus Aurelius and Senakica. I forget the third person. See, you can never remember the third person. And so now he wants to be the modern-day stoic. And he's working real hard to own that. So if I want to go in like, hey, I'm pretty stoic. Like, do I want to out stowic that boy? Probably not. I'm not going to write five bucks. >> Okay, >> you see what I'm saying? >> So like, put this into for myself. So like I would go on YouTube, I want to become the YouTube strategist. And for me, it's to then find a niche within YouTube that I could be that strategist for >> possibly. >> Okay. >> And it only takes one dimension for you to then change the game. >> So one level of specificity will will change it for you. Right? >> I wanted to be the YouTube strategist for Latin America. Boom. You can own that. >> Okay? >> Only adding one more dimension. >> Okay? >> That's all it takes. >> And and I want to tell you something. You're like, it's discouraging. I don't see it as discouraging at all because if you're number one, it means you're number one and nobody can take it from you. You see, the the coin has two sides. You only look at the side of like, well, that doesn't that's not cool. But the good side to that coin is once you own it, it's kind of hard to undo it because the human brain works like this. Once something occupies a space in your mind, it's very hard for you to undo that. And not to get political, but Trump is great at doing this. When he calls Hillary Clinton crooked Hillary, we can't stop thinking what is she is she crooked? Like, you have to double check yourself because he made the name stick, >> right? This is the power of words. when it's associated with something, it's very hard for us to uncouple it. So, what you need to do is think, what do I want to be associated with and can I own it? And if I can't, I want to work like a dog to own it. >> So, is your book teaching you how to find this one thing for you to be known for or is there are there different elements to the personal branding and what you call? >> There's more than that. There's seven points. But I realized in trying to make it simpler, is it simple enough? So, I've done this a couple of times now where I'm like, maybe I should just focus on the three and not the seven. >> But, as far as I can tell, there are seven observable traits that a personal brand has or actually any brand has, right? But I focus on the three. I don't want to talk about that. Okay. >> It's going to make it more complicated because >> can people in this room remember what the three things are? What are they? >> What's the one thing you're known for? Who's your enemy? And what's your call your crying? What do you call your >> You can call it many things. Say whatever. What's your call out or your crying? >> Your your rallying cry. >> Your rallying cry. >> Your call to arms. >> Okay. >> Um your slogan, whatever. However, your phrase that activates your audience, your community. >> I'm going to say your slogan. That's probably the easiest one to remember. >> You can say whatever you want. Okay. >> But you remember the concept. Now, if I were to bomb you with seven, you probably were like, \"Uh, I don't know
1what to do.\" So, I'm trying in earnest to follow my friends Chris Sergio's advice. Low mental lift, high frequency. >> Okay. So the rest of the book will cover the other seven, but it is a workbook. It's not like a bookbook. And you do stuff and you'll start to see patterns. Yeah. So we play games with you. >> Yeah. I mean, I have a copy here and I've been playing around with it. Definitely something like when I'm on the airplane, I've been going through this. So this definitely helped a lot. I'm excited for the next one as well, but I think you did a good job of putting this together. >> Thanks. >> I do see one thing here. You said there's like three principles to personal branding. What are those? I'm a little afraid to tell you, but I will tell you because the principles or philosophies and ideas, they're not actionable. They are number one, you have to be intentionally or meaningfully different because if you're the same as everybody else, you might as well not have a brand. You have a blend. Number two, you have to have the courage to be disliked. Uh, that sounds really good because it's come from a book title that I also like a lot. So, if you're different, different gets smashed. Different gets ridiculed. Different is misunderstood. So we know as soon as you have the courage to stand up, people are coming after you. So then you have to have the courage to be disliked. I'm different and I'm cool with that. Right. Number three, and this is the one that's going to surprise most people is more than 50% of our brain is dedicated towards visual processing. Like when I look at you from afar, is that Drigo? Is that my buddy or is that some other person? Should I be scared? Is that friendly? Is that an aesthetic combination of things? So more than 50% of our brain is dedicated towards visual processing. So to tie it to how we began this conversation is the way I present myself visually signals to other people really quickly before words are formed a feeling. And so the principle number three is you have to be aesthetically discerning. If I were to show up in in a potato sack with flip flops, you might think, \"Oh, Chris is really earthy. He's a man of the people. He's keeping it real humble right now.\" Or somebody else might think, \"Oh, you couldn't be bothered to show up for this. I showed up for you. I can't take you seriously.\" So, what we're doing is, unbeknownst to us, we're signaling to people all the time. Who are we? How should you perceive me? So, you walk into a room and you have a perfectly groomed beard and you're wearing a super sharp $10,000 Italian suit that's tailored. And you walk into the room, people are going to think, \"Oh, this guy, he must be an important person.\" You come in there with shorts, cargo shorts, and a t-shirt with holes in it and and sneakers. Who let this kid in the room or security? You can literally be the CEO, but people will interpret you as a certain thing. >> We're talking more, >> whatever. So, what I tell people is this. Your clothes, your packaging is a tool. I want to reframe it. Your clothes are not clothes. They're tools. And tools are designed to solve a certain job. A wrench is pretty good for turning bolts or nuts, right? A screwdriver is pretty good for turning screws. A hammer is pretty good at breaking things and driving nails. You probably should not use a hammer to turn a nut. You probably shouldn't use a screwdriver to drive a nail. That makes sense, right? >> Does that make sense? Just say yes. I'm not done. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, the question for you is the tools that you have, what job are you trying to solve? This is a really important question. So, like if you're working in the kitchen, an apron works really well. And if you're working in a car, a jumpsuit works really well. Dark one. If you're working in a hospital, scrubs work the best. So, when you're dressed and you're going to step on stage, what job are you trying to solve? >> Well, a lot of us aren't stepping up on stages. >> Well, I'm saying if you are there hypothetical. >> See, I'm I feel conflicted hearing that because it goes back to the start of this talk. Yeah. >> When we talked about what people write in the comments about like what you're wearing, like, hey, I wouldn't hire you. So, you're just like, \"Hey, if you're going to go into a business meeting and you're wearing your long skirt or dress, but you're like, \"Hey, >> just answer the question.\" If you answer the question, you don't have to figure out the problem. >> Entertain and inform the people that >> with your clothes. >> Yeah. >> Well, I guess I'm trying to impress. >>
1 So, when you're trying to impress, most people say you're trying to be professional. You want to be taken seriously. Okay. >> And so, then what are the tools that you would use for that of all the different kinds of fits you can put on? Most people say, \"Well, sport coat, trousers, loafers, maybe a tie, maybe. We don't know.\" >> Right. Right. And that would be a pretty reasonable thing. Like, I'm trying to be professional. I'm taking this seriously. I wish for you to take me seriously. And we adopt the corporate speaker uniform. Perfect. Right. Everybody agree? >> Okay. >> The problem is you're also telling them, I'm like every other person that's on the stage. I'm actually not that special. Maybe you guys should ignore me because what I'm going to say is going to be like what everyone else is saying. The way they deliver it is the way I'm going to deliver it. You know how they start with this? I'll start with that. You know how they conclude with this? I'll conclude with that. >> You see their tone, I'll adopt that tone. So, you're inadvertently signaling to everybody by adopting the corporate uniform, I'm like everyone else. Please don't pay attention to me. This hurts because a lot of people dress this way. So, my intention is different. because I'm maybe more secure in myself and more self-confident. I could give a flying rat what what you think about what corporate looks like. What the what job I'm trying to solve is I'm going to be different. Whatever you heard before and after may or may not matter, but this will not be the same presentation. I'm not the same person. I actually care a lot about design and intentionality. And I'm going to tell you why it's an advantage to be different by proving it to you, not just talking about it. M >> imagine if I came on stage and like dare to be different and I look like every single other person. The best way to unbland yourself is to look just like everyone else. There would be a mismatch, a misalignment between message and delivery. You see the problem? >> I do. I think you use the tool very well there. You put the hammer to the nail. >> Hammer to nail. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. So, you see, if you just let me lead you, I'll take you to the promised land. Now, here's the thing. >> Are they going to light me up in the comments? Probably. >> For sure. No, not probably. I would take odds and I would bet that yes, they're going to light me up in the comments. But you know what they don't pay attention to is how many people say positive things before, during, and after that make the negative comments seem tiny, relatively speaking. >> So I told you before my philosophy, my ideas are meant to compel and to simultaneously repel. I know if I do something doesn't repel people, I'm not doing anything of note. If you play it really safe, if you drive down the middle lane always at 55 miles per hour, you're not gonna offend nobody. You're not going to get you're not going to break a speed record here. I'm I'm here to break things. So, somebody during our conversation at dinner, I said, \"So, what's what's this all about? You're on stage right now, right? Why why you look like this? What what job are you trying to solve? They're trying to test me. Do you know what I said? >> Tell me. >> Guess. Can you guess or no? >> You don't have to. >> Let me give me a second. What do you say? Yeah. >> Right. So, like I'm not on stage per se. Like I'm just out for dinner. >> Chris, why are you doing this? >> Yeah. And I like being tested, by the way, cuz that caught me off guard, too. I'm like, \"Oh, I wasn't. It's just theory, man. You don't turn the lens back on me.\" And I had to think real quick and I said, \"So, here's something you don't know about me. I hate social events.\" It took a lot of energy for me even to decide to come to this. Even to say, \"Yes, I'll be there.\" That was a lot of effort for me. And my biggest problem as a socially awkward introvert is I don't know how to start conversations with people. But I enjoy the company of other people. And so when I walk into the room and there's 18 people and they all know each other, they're chopping it up like they go way back. I feel like I'm brought back to junior high again. Like I'm the new kid who just transferred into a school and I look like nobody and I feel very much the outsider. What I do is I am a provocator. So I want to wear things that invite people to have a conversation with me so they can say, \"Hey, what's up with the hat?\" Or like, \"Why'd you wear this today?\" And let's have a conversation. Or are you in the creative space? Or you must be doing something or you're an important person. I need to talk to you, right? I'm like, \"Am I?\" That solves most of my problem. So, in social circles, the job, unlike on stage, is come talk to me, please. I'd like to have a conversation with you because I think you're a person worth getting to know, but I don't have those skills. You just don't know that's what I'm doing to you. >> I love that. I'm glad to experience it once or twice. So, okay, quick pivot before we wrap this up. 2026. Any 2025 reflections of things that happened that you were really happy that it happened last year and things that you want to change for 2026? I'm a big believer that everything that happens, good and bad, happens in perfect time in the moment it's supposed to happen. So, we had a lot of setbacks last year and it was rough to get through. We have moved on from some of the key members of our company and they've gone on to do wonderful, amazing things. cuz I'm really happy for them. Shout out to to Ben and Steph, right? They're doing their thing. Super proud, super happy for them. And it meant that we had to like solve some of our own problems because when they took Accelerator with them, they also took a large chunk of revenue away from us and we had to see can we still do this? Are we still relevant? What are we all about? So last year was about this idea of like getting really super hyperfocused and executing on ideas that we talked about but we never execute. So the smaller your team, the more work you have to do. Everybody understands that. But the smaller your team, the less friction there is to do what it is that you want to do. You don't have so many different opinions about what we should and shouldn't do. And then therefore, you can just execute on those things. And there's one big thing that's happened last year that that has materialized this year, which is we need office space. And in order for me to acquire more office space, I have to get the financials in a company back on track. So, for the past couple years, I've been on semi-retirement mode. I work for fun. It's a lifestyle business. As long as we don't lose money, I'm okay. So, my wife comes to me and says, I just, you know, I have to pull money from our other money-making things to support just our current bills. I'm like, okay, how much more money do I need to make? She goes, well, $20,000 more a month would probably do it. That's how much short we are. I said, I can do that. And then now I want to acquire a property, which means that number is even higher, much higher. So, the goalpost just moved, right? So, if I wanted to maintain her lifestyle, I needed to earn $20,000 more a month so that she's not withdrawing money from other accounts. But now, if I want to acquire a property, I've got to do in orders of magnitude more than that. But I told her, let's get the property. I'm going to get back to work. I've been get myself into the next gear. And there are many gears to to the way my mind and my body work. And I've been super hyperfocused on doing whatever it takes to get us to that goal. And I realized something really important about myself. I already knew this, but it was just confirmation. I can only be pushed so much. I need to be pulled towards something. So not having something to pull me. The the old pool was make enough money so your wife and your family have financial security. This is important. As a provider, I needed to do that. And when I shot past that goal, I'm good. So I didn't feel like I needed to do anything anymore. Right. Mhm. >> And so that was okay. So now I've I've like found a new thing to pull me, which is in order to achieve the next level. I've got to make a certain amount of money. It means I have to get super focused. No more messing around. Let's get work done. So when I'm ready to make that announcement, everybody would know that's what he was talking about. >> I don't see you as a person that like we hear about you messing around. Like what is messing around for Chris? Messing around means something like this. I haven't launched a new product or course in years. I haven't changed a lot of the workshops that I'm doing. I've been refining them. And it also means sometimes I'll do a six-hour Netflix binge. And my my friends, my friend Juel in particular, will say, \"I hate you.\" I'm like, \"What now? Why do you hate me, Juel?\" And she'll say things like, \"How is it that you can get this thing done, make those posts, manage content, watch TV, figure out the brain raw stuff on Instagram? What are you doing in your life that I'm not? Cuz I could barely show up and get XYZ done. I live a highly optimized life.\" But part of that meant there were long kind of lulls like, \"Oh, let me go for a 4-hour walk or let me just leisurely work out in a gym for two hours. I'm literally probably doing 15 minutes of work, but I'm stretch out for two hours because I get to enjoy my life.\" Now I'm like, \"You know what? I got to cut some of this stuff out. I got to be more efficient. Let's get stuff done. So, I'm not sitting there on the couch like, \"Oh, let me do three hours of YouTube to kind of know what's going on.\" I don't have time for that anymore. So, I'm getting stuff done. And if you think I've been cooking before, you ain't seen nothing yet. >>
1 Okay. So, what are some ways that people want to support and look into the book? How can we show up for you? >> A lot of different things. So, we have some goals in terms of growing the YouTube channel. You can support us financially by becoming a member. The patron level is one that counts the most, but we appreciate any and everything you do. A lot of people assume, oh, this is free content and that's a relationship we've created for people. It's not free. It's free for you, but it's not free. It costs us money. It cost money to have you here and the wonderful people and electricity or just the space to be able to do this. We try our best to give as much value as possible. And if you feel like your life has been transformed, if you've made some kind of money or transformation in your life, give some of it back. so that we can do this because Ana Lope said something to this effect. Every dollar you spend is a vote for the world that you want. Which means that when you spend money with one organization, in a weird way, you hope the other organization goes away. And if you spend money with guru marketers and scamathons or whatever else you're you're investing in, you're saying, \"Chris, you guys should die. You should burn into oblivion.\" And we'll continue to support the people who are disingenuous and who know how to put their marketing hooks into you and make promises that no one in their right mind can deliver on. We already know this. But yet they squeeze and you give. >> I'd like to play the anti-squeezes, which is if you want, just give. If you don't, not totally cool. >> Where can we get the books, the workbooks? >> Probably just go to future.com. We'll figure out where you can get them. But if you follow me on social at Chris Doe, you'll know because I'll not trying to make it a secret. I'll tell you. >> Anything else for 2026 that it's keeping you up at night? >> Nothing keeps me up at night. I sleep really really well. But I will tell you something. the next chapter of what holds in what's in store for us in 2026 if all comes to fruition. Fingers crossed because I don't like talking about chickens before the hatch. You're going to say, \"Oh my god, that guy had a dream and he's just making his dreams come true and we get to ride along and be a part of it. Not just from a voyer point of view, but we get to learn through the whole process.\" That's what I'm doing. >> Awesome, man. Well, great talking to you as always. >> Thanks for hosting your show. >> Of course, man. Thanks for having me in the future. I see you guys in the next one.",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7bgouAH3ns",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/d7bgouAH3ns",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi_webp/d7bgouAH3ns/maxresdefault.webp",duration_seconds:3361,duration_display:"56:01",view_count:29234,published_at:"2026-04-07T12:01:11+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Chris Do's Personal Branding Framework for 2026 | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do explains why talking about what you do fails. Learn a 3-part framework to build a personal brand that is memorable and owns its niche.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-04-07T01:11:07.389382+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:03.674883+00:00",faq:$R[102]=[$R[103]={answer:"The Unbland Essentials [link to: Unbland Essentials] framework is a three-part model for defining your brand's core message. It helps you find clarity by identifying three key elements: 1) the one thing you want to be known for, 2) the enemy you are on a mission to eradicate, and 3) your rallying cry or call to arms that activates your community. According to Chris Do, knowing any one of these components can help you figure out the other two, making it a fast way to build your brand.",question:"What is the Unbland Essentials personal branding framework?"},$R[104]={answer:"Invisible fences are the self-imposed rules and limiting beliefs that hold you back. These are boundaries we learn from societal norms, fear of judgment, or past failures. We often do not test these limits again, even when we are strong enough to overcome them. Recognizing that these fences are not real is a liberating moment. It allows you to explore who you truly are, which is a critical step in building an authentic personal brand that stands out from the competition.",question:"What are invisible fences in personal branding?"},$R[105]={answer:"A personal brand needs an enemy because people unite more strongly against a common enemy than for a common friend. This enemy is not a person but a concept you want to eradicate, such as complexity, poverty, or conformity. Defining what you stand against gives your brand a clear mission and purpose. It is a core part of the Unbland Essentials [link to: Unbland Essentials] framework because it helps your ideal audience understand what you truly stand for and why they should join your cause.",question:"Why does a personal brand need to have an enemy?"},$R[106]={answer:"The paradox of choice is the concept that having too many options makes it harder for people to make a decision. In personal branding, this happens when you sound just like everyone else in your field. When a potential client cannot tell you apart from your competitors, they become overwhelmed and often choose no one. To overcome this, you must differentiate yourself by sharing not just what you do, but who you are: your story, your philosophy, and
1your unique beliefs.",question:"What is the paradox of choice in personal branding?"}],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:11938,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"personal branding framework",secondary_keywords:$R[107]=["how to build a personal brand","unbland yourself","find your niche","content creation strategy","Chris Do personal branding"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[108]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[109]={id:"71e65137-c05f-41e2-b4dc-04e44f9de7be",video_id:"i9AqXEjbf8I",title:"Your Insecurity Is Your Brand",slug:"your-insecurity-is-your-brand",topic_tag:"PERSONAL BRANDING",secondary_tags:$R[110]=["CAREER STRATEGY","MINDSET","ENTREPRENEURSHIP"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do explains how confronting stereotypes and personal insecurities is the key to building a powerful and authentic personal brand.",pull_quote:"I want to do everything I can to break every stereotype.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[111]=[$R[112]={headline:"Your Insecurity Is Your Strength",explanation:"The very things you are ashamed of can become the foundation of a unique brand. Confronting stereotypes allows you to build a powerful counter-narrative."},$R[113]={headline:"Become a 'Daywalker' in Business",explanation:"Combine the strengths of a creative with the acumen of an entrepreneur. This hybrid model avoids the weaknesses of being purely artistic or purely transactional."},$R[114]={headline:"Representation Gives Others Permission",explanation:"Your visibility, even if you don't seek it, matters. Seeing someone like them succeed gives others the courage to pursue their own ambitions."},$R[115]={headline:"True Freedom Is Self-Authorship",explanation:"Break free from parental and societal expectations to define your own path. Success comes from having the courage to do what you want to do and letting go of their blueprint."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>The Weakness You Hide Is The Brand You Need\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>There is a stereotype, backed by data, that hangs in the air of American society. \x3Cstrong>The least desirable type of man in America is an Asian man.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>It is a brutal assessment. In his 2014 book \x3Cem>Dataclysm\x3C/em>, based on user data from the dating site OkCupid, co-founder Christian Rudder confirmed it. Asian men received the fewest messages and lowest ratings from women across all racial groups. Chris Do, founder of The Futur, felt the sting of that perception not as a statistic, but as a lived reality.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âAsian men are seen as effeminate, bad drivers, not good lovers, and not very attentive to the other person,â\x3C/em> Do states. For years, this societal caricature fed a deep, personal insecurity.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âFor a long time, the self-narrative, my own identity was, I wish I wasn't like this,â\x3C/em> he admits. \x3Cem>âBecause all I wanted to do is be invisible my entire life.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This desire to disappear is the polar opposite of building a personal brand. To build a brand is to be seen, to stand for something, to occupy a distinct space in the minds of others. For Do, the journey to becoming a globally recognized creative entrepreneur was not about finding a new identity. It was about confronting and reversing a lifetime of trying to shed his own.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>It was a journey that required him to weaponize his insecurities and turn the very stereotypes meant to diminish him into the foundation of his strength. It's a journey that reveals a fundamental truth about identity and influence. The parts of yourself you are most afraid of are the very source of a brand no one else can replicate.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Myth of Assimilation\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Growing up as a Vietnamese immigrant in San Jose, California, Doâs primary instruction was to fit in. He was born in Vietnam and came to America at age three, not long after the Fall of Saigon in 1975. His parents, unlike some of their siblings, pushed for rapid assimilation. Speaking English at home was not forbidden, and the goal was clear: blend in, quickly.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>But blending in is not the same as belonging. The world outside his home was quick to remind him of his otherness. He found himself navigating a narrow set of stereotypes assigned to Vietnamese men in America.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Gangster.\x3C/strong> A tough, fearsome caricature. \x3Cem>âApparently, Vietnamese gangsters are pretty badass,â\x3C/em> Do notes wryly. \x3Cem>âThey'll kill you.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Nail Salon Worker.\x3C/strong> A trope with a specific history. The industryâs boom is often credited to actress Tippi Hedren, who in 1975 helped a group of Vietnamese refugees learn the trade.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Tech Worker.\x3C/strong> The dominant, model minority myth. \x3Cem>âSilicon Valley. You know, you must be a good engineer kind of thing.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>None of these molds fit. \x3Cem>âI'm not a gangster. I'm too soft,â\x3C/em> Do says. \x3Cem>âI don't care about doing nails. And I'm terrible at math.â\x3C/em> With his older brother, the âchosen one,â fulfilling the family promise by becoming an engineer, Do was left without a predetermined path.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>School was a social minefield. At John Steinbeck Middle School, he was one of only two Asian students. During a class dance, the other kids instinctively tried to pair them. \x3Cem>âYou two should get together,â\x3C/em> they said. The assumption was clear: their race was their most defining characteristic.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Being Vietnamese was not a source of pride, but a magnet for bullies. Following his older brother's advice, Do learned to stand up for himself. He wasnât big or athletic, but he fought back when he had to, discovering that bullies move on to easier targets. The physical fights were terrifying, but the internal
1conflict was worse.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The daily anxiety was simpler, more universal. \x3Cem>âMy biggest concern in school was, I wonder who I'm going to eat lunch with today because I just would not like to eat alone.â\x3C/em> This struggle, this feeling of being an outsider, planted a deep seed of self-rejection. The corrosive thought became a mantra: \x3Cem>âI wish I wasnât like this.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Power of Pride\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>A profound shift occurred at his graduation from the prestigious ArtCenter College of Design. It was a place where Do had his own struggles, nearly giving up before pushing through to finish. But on that day, he witnessed something that would recalibrate his entire sense of self.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He saw his Asian classmates, students from Korea, China, and Japan who were not born in America, doing something he never would have dared to do. They were proudly wearing the traditional dress of their home countries.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI had never seen them before like this,â\x3C/em> Do recalls. \x3Cem>âLike they were really proud. I would be like I'm not wearing an áo dà i. That's not for me. That looks very feminine. I cannot wear that. And I saw them do this. And something changed inside of me.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The sight triggered a wave of shame. He was ashamed of his own self-hatred, of the years spent wishing away his heritage. For the first time, he saw Asian people exhibiting a level of excellence and pride he had never encountered. He finally understood why.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>These students were not a marginalized minority in their home countries. They were part of the dominant culture. To attend an expensive private art school in America, they were likely from the top echelon of their society, the wealthiest one percent. They arrived in the U.S. not as refugees seeking to assimilate, but as members of an elite class, often driving fancier cars and living in nicer places than their American peers.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>They carried with them an innate confidence that came from a lifetime of belonging. Their identity was not a source of shame but a symbol of their status. This realization sparked what Do calls a \x3Cem>âmulti-year-long journey within myself to celebrate and to love myself 100%.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>It was a slow burn. After graduating, Do entered the world of advertising, a predominantly white industry. Working at his own company, Blind, he specialized in commercials and music videos. In the pre-Zoom era, most work was won or lost on conference calls. \x3Cem>âThey don't see you,â\x3C/em> he explains. \x3Cem>âYou show your work and you pitch and we live in the realm of ideas.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>In this environment, identity was invisible. All that mattered was the quality of the work and the ability to sell it. \x3Cem>âYou win or die by the phone call.â\x3C/em> His company was winning, landing jobs worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Success in this meritocracy meant his race was irrelevant, allowing him to put the question of identity on the back burner once again.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>From Anonymity to Representation\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>The comfortable anonymity of the conference call shattered in 2014. That was the year Do began creating content for YouTube. Suddenly, he was not just a voice on the phone or a name on a contract. He was a face on a screen. He was an Asian man, a Vietnamese American, teaching design and business to a global audience.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The DMs started pouring in, and with them, an issue he had not considered for years: representation.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âIt gave permission to lots of people out there who wanted to pursue the arts and to see what excellence looks like,â\x3C/em> Do realized. On YouTube, a platform where anyone with a camera can broadcast, diversity thrived in a way it did not in traditional media. For many aspiring creatives, particularly those of Asian descent, seeing Do operate at the highest level was transformative.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He never set out to be a role model. \x3Cem>âI didn't want to carry that burden,â\x3C/em> he admits. But the feedback was undeniable. \x3Cem>âIt was important for people to see people like them doing great.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This realization ignited a new mission. He decided to turn his personal brand into a direct assault on the stereotypes that had once haunted him. If Asian men were seen as effeminate and passive, he would be the opposite.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI want to do everything in my power to break down those stereotypes,â\x3C/em> he says. \x3Cem>âTo be a strong masculine fashionable person that understands money and can talk about different things and swim in a lot of different circles so that people can see it's s
1afe to do that.â\x3C/em> This deliberate construction of a public persona is a key lesson from those who, as explored in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/what-successful-personal-brands-do-differently\">What Successful Personal Brands Do Differently\x3C/a>, understand that a brand is a conscious act of communication.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>A recent family story perfectly illustrates this reversal. Doâs older son, a philosophy student at Columbia University, started vlogging. During a visit, Do became the subject of one of his son's videos, which promptly went viral on TikTok and Instagram. The comment section exploded with disbelief.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThat is not your dad. Stop.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âWho this? And are there applications for mother-in-law?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The most surprising comment was the hashtag: #Zaddy. Do had to look it up. The most aggressive, or thirsty, comments came from a specific demographic: Black women. For Do, this was a profound reversal of the narrative. \x3Cem>âBlack men are seen as very masculine, as very powerful and desirable,â\x3C/em> he notes. \x3Cem>âAnd for me to score points with black women, I'm happily married, but this is kind of cool.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He jokes with his sons, \x3Cem>âYou just use me as a thirst trap for your feed.â\x3C/em> But the subtext is powerful. The man who once wished he were invisible had become an object of desire, directly subverting the âleast desirableâ label. More importantly, he had become a hero to his own children. \x3Cem>âIt's great to be able to meet your heroes,â\x3C/em> he says. \x3Cem>âIt's even better to become one to your own children.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Making of a Daywalker\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>In between the creative professional and the business owner lies a chasm. Most people fall into one camp or the other. You are either the artist, pure in your craft but often struggling financially, or the operator, skilled in making money but creatively unfulfilled. Chris Do lives in the space between.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For 13 years, Do worked with a business coach, the late Keir McLaren. One day, McLaren gave him an assessment that was part insult, part compliment. \x3Cem>âChris, of all my clients, you're not the most creative,â\x3C/em> the coach said, and Do knew it was true, admiring many of McLarenâs other world-famous clients. \x3Cem>âAnd you're not the best business person either.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The punchline followed. \x3Cem>âBut no one is as good at doing creative and running a business as you.â\x3C/em> His coach called him \x3Cstrong>you're the best hybrid.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This hybrid nature is not an accident. It is written into his DNA. His fatherâs family is composed entirely of Silicon Valley engineers: logical, successful, and analytical. His motherâs side is the opposite: poets, singers, artists, and dreamers who are full of life but often financially insecure. Do is the precise child of these two worlds.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He is also the middle child, literally and figuratively. His older brother is a successful Silicon Valley founder. His younger brother is a freelance visual effects artist. Do is in the middle, embodying both impulses. He has a metaphor for this unique position, borrowed from the Wesley Snipes film \x3Cem>Blade\x3C/em>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âHe's a vampire, but he was half vampire and half human,â\x3C/em> Do explains. \x3Cem>âSo, they call him Daywalker. He has all the strengths of a vampire and none of the weaknesses.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do sees himself as a professional \x3Cstrong>Daywalker\x3C/strong>. \x3Cem>âI have all the strengths and artistic imagination of a designer, creative thinker and the business acumen of a business person and none of the weaknesses between the two.â\x3C/em> This philosophy is central to his teachings on building a sustainable creative career, a topic he delves into in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/business-advice-for-creatives-feeling-lost-2025\">Business Advice for Creatives Feeling Lost\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The artist who purely pursues their craft often runs their business into the ground. The businessperson who only chases profit often lacks a creative soul. The Daywalker thrives by integrating both. This is not about balancing two opposing forces but about creating a new, more powerful identity from them.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This required Do to shed a label that had long defined him. For years, his identity was a graphic designer. But he realized the title was a trap. \x3Cem>âBeing a graphic designer meant you must design graphics,â\x3C/em> he says. As he evolved, the title became too small. He was now helping people with business, negotiation, public speaking, and personal branding.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI still have graphic design tendencies,â\x3C/em> he says, \x3Cem>âbut I've evolved beyond that.â\x3C/em> He is a recovering graphic designer, one who broke free from the constraints of his own
1job title to build something larger.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Freedom to Become\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>The final layer of identity is legacy. How do you raise children to have a secure sense of self, free from the generational baggage you carried? Doâs approach to parenting is as unconventional as his approach to business, and it is rooted in the lessons of his own upbringing.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Looking back, he realizes the long hours his immigrant parents worked were an unintentional gift. \x3Cem>âIt gave me a lot of freedom to learn about who I was going to be in this world,â\x3C/em> he reflects, \x3Cem>âversus following a blueprint that they wanted to lay out for me.â\x3C/em> His father, instead of lecturing, would ask questions, forcing a young Chris to think for himself.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This freedom was most critical when he decided to go to art school. He later learned his father was deeply against it but never said a word. His mother, a small, traditionally quiet woman, stood up to her husband. \x3Cem>âYou're not allowed to tell him your thoughts,â\x3C/em> she declared, shielding her son from the disapproval that might have derailed him. His mother became his hero.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This personal history forms the core of his parenting philosophy today. He has watched his cousins follow the traditional path: staying close to home, becoming doctors, lawyers, and engineers. Yet, many of them, now in their 40s, are poorer than he is and remain preoccupied with their parentsâ approval. They never fully broke away to define themselves.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>
1âAt one point in your life in your adulthood, I hope that you find the courage to do what you want to do,â\x3C/em> Do advises. The people who truly love you will be patient. And even if they are not, you must pursue your own path. This echoes a core tenet of self-determination similar to those discussed in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-words-shape-your-reality-melanie-whitney\">How Words Shape Your Reality\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He applies this principle directly to his two sons. He believes in a philosophy he heard from a yogi: \x3Cstrong>children are born perfect. It's parents who messed them up.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âWe're trying to correct the sins of our own past in our own children,â\x3C/em> he explains. \x3Cem>âWe do not have the courage to act. What we want to do is have them act for us.â\x3C/em> The parent who never played an instrument but forces their child into piano lessons is a classic example.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Believing his children are already perfect, Doâs goal as a parent is simple: \x3Cem>âI'm trying to do as little as possible to harm them.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The rules in his house are focused on broad principles, not specific paths.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>No physical violence between brothers.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>Respect your parents and others.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>Try not to hurt people.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>The rest is up to you.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>He has never checked their homework or looked at a report card. He has actively tried to bribe them to quit school, offering them their college funds with no strings attached. Yet both have excelled, getting themselves into top schools with scholarships, on their own terms.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The result is a relationship built on freedom and mutual respect, not obligation. By giving his children the space to discover who they are, he is breaking the cycle of inherited expectations. He is giving them the gift his parents gave him by accident, but this time, it is on purpose.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The negative consequence of clinging to tradition, he warns, is that people \x3Cem>ânever fully realize their own identity and their own potential.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>And that, he says, is a shame.\x3C/p>",transcript:"The least desirable type of man in America is an Asian man. And it's because Asian men are seen as effeminate, bad drivers, not good lovers, and not very attentive to the other person. And so for a long time, the selfnarrative, my own identity was I wish I wasn't like this. Because all I wanted to do is be invisible my entire life. [music] And I see something for the very first time. Asian people, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, and even some Vietnamese who were not born here, they were proudly [music] wearing the dress of their country. something changed inside of me. I want to do everything in my power to be a strong masculine [music] fashionable person. It gave me a lot of freedom to learn about who I was going to be in this world. So my message to you is [music] the thing I want to talk about a little bit is about identity and and branding. It's something that I've been very passionate about talking about the last couple of years. And when we think of Vietnamese and Vietnamese men I'm trying to represent here. Um, maybe there's some stereotypes that really bother me. Um, and you guys help me out if you have a different uh take on this. Number one is maybe you're a gangster. Um, yeah, a little bit. You're a gangster. >> Okay. >> But in America, you know, it's like they're gangsters and you don't want to mess around with Vietnamese gangsters. Apparently, Vietnamese gangsters are pretty badass. They'll kill you. And then the other stereotype I think is the nail salon owner or worker. And I think there's a whole history why that has happened in America. And the third one is the most dominant one. I think it's one that works in tech. Silicon Valley. You know, you must be a good engineer kind of thing. And I was looking at my career options like, well, I'm not a gangster. I'm too soft to be a gangster. Um, I don't care about doing nails. And I'm terrible at math. Apparently, you have to be pretty good at math to be a software engineer. Luckily, my older brother fulfilled that promise. The chosen one, he became an engineer. So, what does that leave for us? And then I was scrolling on social media and there was a comedian who said this like the least desirable type of man in America is an Asian man. Do you guys know that? Is that true? And it's because Asian men are seen as effeminite, bad drivers, uh not good lovers, and not very attentive to the other person, right? So, I was like, that sucks. And I was having a conversation with my friend. It's like, I want to do everything I can to break every stereotype that you would put on an Asian man. And it started me to get to thinking about representation. It's not something I think about very much because growing up in America, I was born in Vietnam, came to America when I was 3 years old, my parents were different than their siblings that they really wanted us to assimilate quickly. So though they spoke to us in Vietnamese at home, it wasn't like forbidden to speak in English and they wanted us to fit in fast. And so I My Vietnamese is terrible. It is, but it's better than Hal's, I believe. >> I know. I know. Sorry, Hal. I had to say it. You know why? Cuz we were in a restaurant, a f restaurant in Vietnam, and he ordered. I'm like, \"Oh my god, my Vietnamese is way better. I should order for you.\" And he was like, \"Let me show you, Chris.\" And it was wonderful to to hear him say this. Even my kids Vietnamese might be better than yours. And they're only half Vietnamese, right? And growing up fully American. So, you encourage me to be a better Vietnamese person. How? I'm just saying. You inspire me in so many ways that you might not even know. And on that idea of representation, I I struggled mightily while growing up because in 1975, we're here in America, so mid70s, early 80s, there weren't a lot of Asian people. And I remember in junior high at John Steinbeck Middle School, there was one other Asian girl, I think her name was Susie, and when we had uh music and dance, they're like, \"You need to partner up with somebody.\" And all the white kids were like, \"You two should get together.\" I'm like, \"I'm not even interested in Susie. It's just natural like and she wasn't Vietnamese obviously and throughout my life I was like I must think that I'm white or something because being Vietnamese meant I was a source of someone to be picked on to be bullied and I had a little bit of that. Thankfully my older brother who's four years older than me told me that the best thing that you can do for bully is to stand up. So I'm a small guy. I'm not a big person. I'm not strong. I'm not athletic. But he always told me, \"Stand up to people and they'll leave you alone because they'll just move on to someone who was easier.\" And though I was scared out of my mind to get into fights and I would get into some of them, but after their first fight, they would just leave you alone and move on to someone else. And so for a long time, the selfnarrative, my own identity was, I wish I wasn't like this because all I wanted to do is be invisible my entire life. Just leave me alone. And my biggest concern in school was, I wonder who I'm going to eat lunch with today because I just would not like to eat alone. So, I've struggled with this. Fast forward, I get into art center and it's graduation. I have my own struggles there because I was thinking I don't want to be here anymore. I'm done with school. But I do go finish all the work and go to graduation. And I see something for the very first time, which is a lot of Asian Asian people, Korean, Chinese, um, Japanese, and even some Vietnamese who were not born here, they were proudly wearing the dress of their country. And I had never seen them before like this. Like they were really proud. Like I would be like I'm not wearing AI. That's not for me. That looks very feminine. I cannot wear that. And I saw them do this. And something changed inside of me. Um number one is like I had not seen Asian people at the height of excellence and to that level of pride. It made me really ashamed of myself for the self-hate that I had for being Vietnamese American. The reason why they were so proud of their heritage and their culture and their customs was because they grew up in their dominant culture where they were the man or the woman. And in order for them to go to art school, private art school, which is very expensive, they had to have a lot of money. So not only were they part of the dominant culture, they were the top 10% 1% of their society. So naturally, when they came to America, often times they had more money than the Americans. They were driving the fancier cars. they were living in the nicer places and me uh even though we weren't poor, my parents made sure we felt poor because I never saw any of that money. So I was just living by credit card and so there are a lot of things going on right for them that I was starting to have this multi-yearlong journey within myself to celebrate and to love myself 100%. And I started to think about that a little bit. So fast forward, I graduate, I'm working in my my company. We're located in Santa Monica and we're working in advertising which is the predominantly white industry, white man industry. Okay, nothing wrong with that. Just that's the culture and I'm making commercials and music videos and throughout that whole time um because it was mostly just conference calls. This is presume we would just get on a phone call and
1you win or die by the phone call. They don't see you. You show your work and you pitch and we live in the realm of ideas. And so identity and who I was never came into play. It just meant we had to be the best. And we're pitching on $100,000 job, $500,000 jobs, and we were winning. So again, I don't think about identity very much. It's not until 2014 I started making YouTube videos with my then partner Jose that people start DMing me something that I had not asked myself in a while which was the issue of representation. What does it mean to be represented? So I didn't realize this but being an Asian man Vietnamese American it gave permission to lots of people out there who wanted to pursue the arts and to see what excellence looks like. than the motion design industry and on YouTube. Now, YouTube is a great place because anybody with a camera and an internet connection can make content and we see a lot more diverse programming on YouTube unlike in traditional media. And so, that is when it starts to hit me that even though it wasn't important to me to represent other people, I didn't want to carry that burden, it was important for people to see people like them doing great. And so I keep thinking about this like I want to do everything in my power to break down those stereotypes to be a strong masculine fashionable person that understands money and can talk about different things and swim in a lot of different circles so that people can see it's s
1afe to do that. And the funniest thing is there's a little side story and then I think I was supposed to talk for 25 minutes but I I would like to talk with you not to you. I'll just tell you one little story. I have two boys. They're not boys anymore. They're men. One is 21. The other one's 19. He's about to turn 22. And they're very different boys. One is really lover of the arts. He's going to art center. He's a incredible artist. He's like learning how to sew and make clothes and he's studying entertainment design. The other one much smarter, much more high achieving, is studying philosophy and loves art and design because he grew up in a household where both parents were designers full of art supplies and immersed in it. But he's denied that part of himself that he wants to do serious things. He went to school for gifted kids. Then he went to boarding school on the east coast and now he's studying philosophy at Colombia. And my wife and I both look at him like, I wonder what happened to him. He's lost the way. So in our family, it's like the opposite of most families. Most families want you to go to college, go to a good school, and have great grades. We're like, just do whatever you want. Who cares about school? In fact, we saved up money for them for college since they were little kids. And I've tried to bribe my children to quit school. Every semester, I asked him, \"Do you still want to be here? Do you want to continue forward? because you can have all the money, no strings attached, do whatever you want in your life. No expectations. And people are like, \"Oh, what kind of hippie family is this?\" And my oldest boy, he's like, \"No, I must go to IV League school. I must get high GPA. I'm going to study Latin. I'm going to study piano.\" He's doing everything that my parents would have wanted for me, but I couldn't fulfill. So maybe it's like it skips a generation or something like that. Not sure. Whatever. We'll take it. But there's these urges inside of this boy that are creative. And so he started to vlog, which for me is like, \"No, you're following the old man's footsteps. I don't vlog, but he's making YouTube content.\" And so one day I'm going to visit him in New York because I have a layover. And I go to see him. We hang out. And of course, he's vlogging the entire experience because this is what he's doing now. He's using his studies and philosophy and writing to tell stories via his vlog. and he shoots and everything. I'm only there for eight or nine hours and I'm on the flight to another place. What happens afterwards is pretty funny because he's on TikTok and he's on Instagram as well. He posts and I don't know anything about it because I'm on to my next thing. And then I'm on a group chat with the entire family and the two boys are texting each other and my youngest dead face emoji. You guys know dead face emoji? It's like I didn't know what it was because I'm an old guy. It's like funny like killing me. He goes, \"Uh, your video with dad is now your most viral video.\" And then there's an exchange back and forth like, \"Oh my god, what's going on?\" I don't think anything of it. So, a couple days later, I actually look at the video and I read the comments and they're pretty funny. And what was happening is like, \"That is not your dad. Stop.\" Or like, \"Who this? And are there applications for mother-in-law?\" and that cannot be your dad. And the funniest one is something like #zatty, which I didn't even know what that meant. I had to look it up on the Urban Dictionary. I still don't know what it means, but I feel like what you know, if you know, you know. And I thought it was pretty funny. And I I I now say to my boys, you just use me as a thirst trap for your feed. And I like that. But what's really weird is most of the comments that are more aggressive, should I say, come from a very different demographic. >> It comes from black women. I didn't know this, but I guess I have pulled within the African-American community. And to me, that's a reversal of stereotypes because that's a different thing. Like, black men are seen as very masculine, as very powerful and desirable. And for me to score points with black women, I'm happily married, but this is kind of cool. And I just share with that with you because it's like um all my life. I don't want to embarrass my children. And it's great to be able to meet your heroes. It's even better to become one to your own children. And I'll stop there and maybe we can talk a little bit more. Twing. Is that okay? Okay. All right. Thank y
1ou. All right. [applause] So, I'm I'm I love Q&A. I love fireside chat. The happiest that I'm ever is with a large piece of paper and some markers. And that was just like how it was when I was 5 years old. So, they continue on into my 50s. I would love to have a conversation with you about content, about identity, about branding, or anything that you think we can talk about to make sure this experience is unique to us and not some pre-recorded thing. I'm just curious about confession of a recovering >> graphic designer. How do you see yourself? >> Oh, okay. Okay. So, you you read the program. It must be. >> I don't know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh. Oh, [laughter] you're you're How'd you read my mind? Oh, it's right there behind me. Okay. It I I give a couple of different talks. One is called Unblan Yourself. The other one is Confessions of Recovering Graphic Designer. It's uh my life story and all the twists and turns and the things that go unplanned. Um it's like the the slide should have said like a series of unfortunate events led me to exactly here. And so I'm a recovering graphic designer because my identity for a very long time was graphic design. But I realized being a graphic designer meant you must design graphics, right? Like a fashion designer designs fashion. Interior designer designs interiors. an experienced designer designs experiences and I felt after I outgrew that title although it served me really well it's time for me to move on so I still have graphic design tendencies but I've evolved beyond that so I help people with relationships I help people with their business with negotiations with public speaking uh with their own personal brand so that's that's why it's called confessions of recovering graphic designer you're very astute okay is anybody else have another thing they would like to talk about? Any any questions? >> How can you switch from like craft to like like from creative to be like entrepreneur like and and go to like to be like CEO cuz like I actually follow you a little bit. Uh but like I saw that you do like a a lot like incredible content and to be honest I kind of surprised because like you are different from my like expectation that you are like kind of cute [laughter] about like and I like >> I'm not going to say like like Zaddy but yeah and then I want to hear sorry and cuz like I'm a Vietnamese I'm born and raised in Vietnam. So I came here five years ago like in pandemic time. So we are young generation in here and then we want to listen to all of like the literacy here and got inspired. And by the way I love this because like this is like the Vietnamese podcast first time that I hear from like when I was in Vietnam and here so I feel more homesick. K. Thank you. I think [laughter] it was like um half compliment like you're kind of but not really and my expectations were you weren't gonna be. So, right. She's like negging me the whole time. No, you guys know what I'm talking about. It's like a way of dating where you give a compliment but it's actually an insult. So, the other person then tries to win your favor. You guys, young people, you guys know what I'm talking about, right? Okay. the identity, the identity between creative and business and how I'm able to ride those two lines. Um, I've worked with a business coach for 13 years. I met with him. His name is Kier McLaren. He's passed away. Um, he's a big like Irish American man, like very big, rides a motorcycle. And I would meet with him every single week for 13 years for about an hour and a half to two hours. And so I learned a lot about business and my thinking and philosophy from him. But he said something to me because he consulted and coached many people in our industry. Some of them are world famous title designers and have like worked on big blockbuster films. Some of them are working with worldclass musicians, people who play on rock bands you've heard of. So I'm just one of many people he consults. And he says something to me which is kind of reminds me of what you're saying to me which is kind of a half insult half compliment which was this. He goes, \"Chris, of all my clients, you're not the most creative. Clearly they're more creative people.\" And I know because I know his clients. I admire them. They're my heroes. And he said that and the and you're not the best business person either because clearly they're much better than you. They're doing gazillion dollars. And like is this going somewhere, coach? I'm thinking. and he goes, \"But no one is as good at doing creative and running a business as you.\" So the creative person is the pursuit and the purity of artistic expression and they're running their business into the ground. And then the people who are really good business operators are making a lot of money, but for him, they have no creative soul. They know how to hire and fire and leverage and negotiate things and arbitrage. And so he's like, \"You're the best hybrid.\" And there's a good reason why I'm a hybrid. My father and my entire father's family. There are seven. No, there's more than that. There's like nine siblings. They're all engineers. Silicon Valley. They're all doing really well. They own multiple homes living in San Jose. My mom's side, they're all artistic. They're singers, poets, artists, writers. My mom is one, too. They're dreamers. And they're the most loving, beautiful people. And they love life. And many of them are financially just like not doing well. So you can see now I'm the exact child between my mom and my dad. And maybe it's coincidental, but I'm also the middle child. So my older brother is a Silicon Valley engineer. He's exited on multiple companies. He's a he's a foun
1der. My younger brother is a recolution never went to college artist, freelancer who who does um visual effects for TV shows. So I'm in the middle. No, there's a line I like to use from Wesley Snipes Blade. Do you know Blade, the character? He's a vampire, but he was half vampire and half human. So, he's like they call him Daywalker. It's a great name. He's a day walker because he has all the strengths of a vampire and none other weaknesses. He can walk in the sunlight. So, I like to tell people I'm a day walker. I have all strengths and artistic imagination of a designer, creative thinker and the business acumen of a business person and none of the weaknesses between the two. So that's the first part. Now let's get into the part why you don't think I'm attractive. No, I'm just kidding. Okay. [laughter] Uh did I answer your question? Is that okay? >> Okay. So somebody else have one more question. Something deep maybe something profound. Come up here. My question to you that not just with you know the community
1itself but run through family. So we have know the generation gap between you and your parents there's already a gap. Now you and your kids there's another gap. So how can you bridge those gap? Cuz that's is a conflict among a lot of the Vietnamese family. That's why there's a lot of you know fight back and forth and disconnection. So what would be your you know advice or how can you bridge that gap between you and your your sons or you and your your parents? >> You sure? >> Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Let's take the first one. My relationship with my parents. Uh I'm very fortunate that I grew up in America in a time when both parents worked all the time and we're like latch key kids. basically they go to work, you have a key, you go home and you don't leave the house kind of thing. And for a long time, I felt really bad because I was thinking we should do more stuff together as a family to this experience that I see in my my friends, my Chinese friends, my American friends, they have a different relationship parents, but my parents were just busting their butt just trying to make sure we can pay the mortgage. And what I realized later on, many years later on, was that it gave me a lot of freedom to learn about who I was going to be in this world versus following a blueprint that they wanted to lay out for me. It's also mirrored with not just because they work, but my dad and mom have a very lousy affair with managing and raising us. And instead of telling me what to do, my dad would just ask me lots of questions. When I got into trouble, it wasn't a long lecture. It was just a lot of questions again getting me to think and it allowed me to kind of space to not fill in what he wanted me to become to fit in a mold. And when I decided to go to art school, I didn't know this at the time. My dad was really against it. And I didn't know this because he never told me. And the reason why he never told me was because my mom, she's like that tall and she never talks back to my dad. traditional family. She stood up and said, \"You're not allowed to tell him your thoughts.\" And I think, you know, I thank my dad a lot for shaping who I am. I didn't know this part of the story. And so now my mom has become my hero. I'd like to think I'm strong enough to to pursue a career in art and design. Even if they didn't approve, I never have to know because I never heard. She shielded me from that and said, \"You're just not allowed to say anything.\" So today after the success u of course both parents are very proud and it's really strange for me to say this but of all my cousins who went a very traditional path who did what their parents told them to do to stay tight to the family unit. Number one they never moved more than 15 miles away from home. They're all still in San Jose. Okay. And number two they they're pharmacists. They're they're dentists. They're doctors. They're nurse. They're engineers. They're lawyers. Very respectable things accountants do. They're poorer than I am. And now I'm seen as the one who breaks the mold and is successful. So my message to you is one point in y
1our life in your adulthood, I hope that you find the courage to do what you want to do and the people who really care about you, who really love you will be patient enough to allow you to do that. And even if they didn't, I have to say I don't care. I love my parents dearly. They live close to us now. So, we moved to Los Angeles and then eventually they moved to Los Angeles because when we had kids, their grandparents want to be around the kids and so they sold their house and so now they live close to us versus us living close to them. And so I I look at all my cousins who spent all this quality time with their parents, they're still to this day, they're in their 40s concerned about what their parents are doing. They [clears throat] just they never got away from the parent sibling relationship about being a beautiful child. And I know a lot of you have those traditional values which I think are good but every positive thing has a negative thing. We have to be aware the negative thing is they never fully realize their own identity and their own potential. And I think that's just a shame. So now my relationship with my own kids is very different. I feel like and and I hope like maybe this isn't uh isn't triggering for anybody is what happens is we inherit the problems that our parents gave us because they couldn't solve it, right? Like you notice often times parents want you to do the thing that they could do in life. So if they didn't go to college, guess what? You're going to college. If they were blue collar, they want you to be white collar. If they married this kind of person, they want you to marry another kind of person because they're not happy. And so I was listening to his yogi and he said something like children are born perfect. It's parents who messed them up because we're trying to correct the sins of our own past in our own children. We do not have the courage to act. What we want to do is have them act for us. You know how like how many moms don't know how to play an instrument but their children must play the violin and the piano. Like you never even played. You didn't go to an Ivy League school. You don't have a doctorate. Why is that important for me? It's because we're trying to fix our lives through them. And so if I believe that, and I do, my children are born perfect. I'm trying to do as little as possible to harm them. That's the goal of being a parent. And so both my children do whatever they want. And we just have we have strict guidelines on edges, but not a lot in the middle. Like there's no physical violence between the two of you. If you want to hurt other people, that's a different story, but you all cannot hurt each other. And number two, respect is a big thing. Respect your parents. Respect other people. Try not to hurt people. And the rest of it, you do whatever you want. My cousin, who is an American Vietnamese, went to Vietnam to raise his family. And his he's got a little boy. He's he's here and he sees my son doing really well. He asked me this question. He goes, \"How do you get your boys to do the homework?\" I wasn't expecting that question from him. And I said, \"I don't know.\" Never care that they've done their homework. And then I remembered I've never even looked at the report card. And I know some of you are shocked. Like, what kind of Asian dad are you? I'm dad. I don't care. But you know what? They've always done well in school. How do I know? Cuz my wife tells me cuz she cares. But I'm like, \"Honey, just leave them alone. Let them do whatever they want. They've always done their homework and they've excelled. They got themselves into school. They got scholarships and they're moving forward in life.\" And so my relationship with my boys is very different than a traditional parent because I'm doing the things that they're doing and I'm purposely learning Gen Z slang so I can embarrass them all the time. That's my connection. And one of the most beautiful things about living a creative life, the one that I've had and being a business owner is sometimes we pulled them out of school just to travel. So my was homeschooled for two years and he did like an online homeschooling. So I had none of the work and all the benefit. So he literally went to work with me every single day. Little man would bring his backpack, his computer, and he would show up. He's only that small, and you know, the guys were that big. He come in the office and, \"Hey boys, how's it going?\" I said, \"You can't call them boys. They're they're my employees, and you're just my son. Don't abuse the power, right?\" And we got to travel to Germany. We got to travel to the Philippines. We we stayed on a private island, got to fly in a helicopter, swim with whale sharks, and he got to do an opening keynote for me. And this is an experience I'll cherish for the rest of my life. So the seeds that we planted with our children while we were young, allowing them to be their full their fullest self, their higher self, that's how I stay connected to them. And listening to my parents is how I stay connected to my parents. Does that answer your question? >> Okay, I think I'm out of time, right? Perfect. [music] >>
1 [music]",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9AqXEjbf8I",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/i9AqXEjbf8I",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/i9AqXEjbf8I/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:1702,duration_display:"28m",view_count:33672,published_at:"2026-03-31T14:00:49+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Your Insecurity Is Your Brand | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do shares his story of overcoming stereotypes and embracing his identity to build an authentic personal brand. Learn how to turn your weaknesses into strengths.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-04-04T16:55:37.543021+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:04.155485+00:00",faq:$R[116]=[$R[117]={answer:"Personal brand identity is the synthesis of who you are, what you stand for, and how you express that to the world. Chris Do argues it's built by confronting your insecurities and stereotypes, not by hiding from them or trying to fit a mold.",question:"What is personal brand identity?"},$R[118]={answer:"You become a hybrid, or what Chris Do calls a 'Daywalker.' This means developing the strengths of both an artist and a business person, like imagination and financial acumen, while avoiding their respective weaknesses, such as being creatively pure but broke.",question:"How do you bridge the gap between being a creative and an entrepreneur?"},$R[119]={answer:"First, identify the negative stereotypes associated with your identity, background, or profession. Then, intentionally cultivate and project the opposite traits. Chris Do sought to be strong, fashionable, and financially savvy to counter stereotypes about Asian men.",question:"How can you build a brand by breaking stereotypes?"},$R[120]={answer:"Family can provide the blueprint for your identity, for better or worse. Chris Do inherited an artistic side from his mother and an analytical side from his father, which he combined to become a creative entrepreneur. True success often requires breaking from that blueprint to forge your own path.",question:"How does family background influence professional identity?"}],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:5415,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"personal brand identity",secondary_keywords:$R[121]=["build a personal brand","overcoming stereotypes","creative entrepreneur identity","find your own identity"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[122]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[123]={id:"c5f65ddd-d14b-48c5-a9d0-e0517c3cb176",video_id:"GaDK_zVy1Cc",title:"STOP Trying To Go Viral... Do This Instead",slug:"stop-chasing-virality-do-this-instead",topic_tag:"CONTENT CREATION",secondary_tags:$R[124]=["PERSONAL BRANDING","SOCIAL MEDIA","MINDSET"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do explains why chasing virality is a prison and offers a new framework for creating meaningful, sustainable content.",pull_quote:"What you become in the pursuit of your goals is more important than the accomplishment itself.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[125]=[$R[126]={headline:"Virality is a Validation Trap",explanation:"Chasing viral moments creates a dependency on external metrics for self worth. This leads to burnout, depression, and quitting when the algorithm doesn't reward you."},$R[127]={headline:"Quantity Creates Quality",explanation:"Consistent repetition, not the pursuit of a single perfect piece, is what builds skill and confidence. The process of creation is more valuable than any single outcome."},$R[128]={headline:"Aim for Alignment, Not Attention",explanation:"True creative power comes from the intersection of what you love, what you are good at, and what the world needs. When you are aligned, money and impact follow."},$R[129]={headline:"Operate Within the Giving Economy",explanation:"To build a real community, give freely without short term expectation of return. Trade money for attention, trust, and connection to build unbreakable social currency."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>A Question of Virality\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The promise of social media is simple and seductive: anyone can go viral. The platforms dangle this carrot, and we keep chasing. But in a recent talk, The Futurâs foun
1der, Chris Do, posed a contrarian question.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âIf anyone can go viral,â\x3C/em> Do asks, \x3Cem>âthe question is, should you?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>To find the answer, he invokes the work of Mark Manson, author of \x3Cem>The Subtle Art of Not Giving an F*ck\x3C/em>. Manson argues that the top 1% of people who make the greatest impact in the world are contrarians. They go against the grain. But Do refines this idea.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âAny fool can go a different direction,â\x3C/em> he clarifies. \x3Cem>âYou have to be a correct contrarian.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This means finding a belief that goes against the mainstream, not as a gimmick, but because you believe in your heart that the mainstream is wrong. If you say what everyone else is saying, you disappear into the noise.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The High Cost of âFastâ\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The obsession with virality is symptomatic of a larger cultural pattern. We live in an era of âfast everything,â where immediate gratification often masks devastating long term consequences.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>
1Do draws a series of parallels to illustrate the danger:\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Fast Fashion:\x3C/strong> Knockoffs destroy legitimate brands, and the rapid pace of production makes the industry one of the most harmful to the environment. It has become cheaper to replace clothes than to wash them.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Fast Food:\x3C/strong> Engineered for shelf life, not for the human body. We trade health for convenience.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Easy Money:\x3C/strong> Lottery winners often end up right back where they started. Easy come, easy go. The character built during the pursuit of a goal is often more valuable than the goal itself.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Crash Diets:\x3C/strong> The name itself gives away the outcome. Short term goals without lifelong habits lead to regression.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>This brings Do to his central point: the pursuit of \x3Cstrong>fast fans\x3C/strong>. This is the essence of chasing virality. Itâs a transaction built on convenience, not connection. Itâs an engagement farm where you pay for clicks from people who have no real interest in you or your message. As soon as you stop paying, the views disappear.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI would rather have a hundred people who are dedicated who truly want to consume my content than a million people who are there because somebodyâs clicking it in some country,â\x3C/em> Do states.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The antidote to going viral is to be antiviral. This means rejecting the chase for easy success and understanding the prison it can become.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Four Traps of Virality\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>When you set virality as your goal, you are walking into a trap where both winning and losing lead to a negative outcome. If you fail to go viral, you burn out, your self esteem takes a hit, and you eventually quit. But what if you succeed? This is where the real danger lies.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do breaks down the dark side of virality into four distinct stages.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>1. The Seduction\x3C/strong>\x3Cbr />Virality is opaque. The platforms donât tell you how the algorithm works, so an industry of gurus emerges to sell you their guesses. You end up exporting your emotional well being to a machine you donât understand, run by corporate overlords who never speak to you.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do shares the story of his friend, Jodie Cook, a senior contributor for \x3Cem>Forbes\x3C/em>. A collaborative reel she did with Do went viral, amassing nearly 3 million views, a massive outlier from her usual 2,000. She was initially excited, but the experience quickly soured. In her \x3Cem>Forbes\x3C/em> article, titled \x3Cem>âWhat Really Happens When You Go Viral On Instagram?â\x3C/em>, Cook detailed the fallout.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Her phone buzzed relentlessly. The constant notifications made it impossible to focus on basic tasks. But beyond the addictive pull of numbers, a darker reality set in. Her inbox was flooded not just with messages, but with threats, harassment, and bullying from complete strangers who judged her entire life based on a 60-second clip.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Comments ranged from dismissive to cruel. \x3Cem>âWhen all you are is money, how poor your life must be,â\x3C/em> one user wrote. Another added, \x3Cem>âUgh. These guru prices are out of control.â\x3C/em> The worst were personal and vile: \x3Cem>âOne word, escort.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This is the price of unearned attention. When you haven't built a relationship with an audience over time, you are just a fleeting image, a target for judgment and scorn.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>2. The Addiction\x3C/strong>\x3Cbr />The viral moment delivers a flood of dopamine. Itâs a high. But like any drug, the high is followed by a crash. You begin to chase the dragon, desperate for another fix. What used to make you happy, the simple act of creating and making progress, no longer registers.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThe day before your post went viral, you were really happy with yourself, werenât you?â\x3C/em> Do asks. \x3Cem>âOnce you experience this feeling, everything else sucks in comparison.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>You become the addict in a perilous relationship with the platform, the dealer. The dealer hooks you with a free sample, a viral hit. When itâs gone, you experience withdrawals, constantly checking your stats, scratching for another fix. This is the validation loop, where you look outside for validation instead of inward.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>3. The Prison\x3C/strong>\x3Cbr />When a piece of content goes viral, the natural impulse is to repeat it. If you went viral for putting ice on your face, you are now the person who puts ice on their face. You become a caricature of yourself, a slave to the algorithm. This is what Do calls the \x3Cstrong>Authenticity Gap\x3C/strong>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The Authenticity Gap is the space between the real you and the persona you perform for the world. The bigger that gap, the less authentic you are. A viral moment can widen this gap exponentially, forcing you to wear a mask that eventually obscures your true self. Your interests, values, and personal growth take a backseat to maintaining the image that got you the attention you now crave.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Every time you try to return to the real you, the algorithm punishes you. Viewers complain: \x3Cem>âThis isnât what we followed you for.â\x3C/em> The avatar you created to go viral has become your prison.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>4. The Awakening\x3C/strong>\x3Cbr />Eventually, the illusion shatters. You realize that being viral doesnât mean youâve created anything valuable. You see that bigger reach doesnât mean your message resonates, and followers donât equal community.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do points to a telling event: VidCon 2022. In the wake of TikTokâs explosion, the conference invited some of the platformâs biggest stars, creators with millions of followers. Do was there to witness the result. In massive rooms built for 500-800 people, superstar TikTokers were greeted by audiences of just 20 or 30 people.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>A \x3Cem>Business Insider\x3C/em> article from July 2022 captured the phenomenon, highlighting the story of creator Grace Africa, who has 1.3 million followers. She set up a meet and greet, and n
1o one came.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The lesson is clear. Short term fame doesnât build lasting bonds. Virality is transactional. Community is relational. Building a personal brand is not about reach; it's about what Do calls âthe stickiness of the relationship.â Real creators are better served by an army of 100 loyal fans than a million fleeting viewers who never show up.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Antidote: A New Goal\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>If virality is the wrong goal, what should creators aim for instead? Do proposes a radical shift away from external metrics and toward internal growth. The true goal of content creation should be \x3Cstrong>personal development to better ourselves while helping other people.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>When this becomes the goal, the binary of success and failure collapses. If you succeed in growing, you develop new skills, find your voice, and build real confidence. If you fail, you learn. The outcome is no longer a win or a loss; it is a win or a lesson.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This mindset shift redefines the creative process itself. It forces a re-evaluation of one of the most sacred cows in the creative industry: the battle between quality and quantity. Many creators believe, \x3Cem>âIf the client gave me more time, it would be better.â\x3C/em> Do calls this what it is: a lie you tell yourself. Creativity expands or contracts to meet a deadline.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>He recounts a famous story from the book \x3Cem>Art & Fear\x3C/em> by David Bayles and Ted Orland. A ceramics teacher divides a class in two. Group A is graded on the quantity of their work, measured by the total weight of the pots they produce. Group B is graded on the quality of a single, perfect pot.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The result was surprising. The highest quality work consistently came from the quantity group. While the âqualityâ group was paralyzed by the pressure of perfection, many failing to even complete a single pot, the âquantityâ group was busy making, experimenting, and learning with each new piece. They were putting in the reps.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Quality doesnât lead to quality. Quantity leads to quality.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âRepetition is the mother of skill,â\x3C/em> Do says, quoting Tony Robbins. He then adds his own layer: \x3Cem>âSkill is the foundation of confidence.â\x3C/em> The pursuit becomes more important than the prize. This echoes a sentiment from the late business philosopher Jim Rohn, which Do holds as a core principle: \x3Cem>âWhat you become in the pursuit of your goals is more important than the accomplishment itself.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Power of Alignment\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Many years ago, while meeting a former student in Las Vegas, Do had an epiphany. The student remarked how happy and centered he seemed. Do grabbed a napkin and drew three overlapping circles to explain why. It was a visual representation of how he had finally found alignment in his life.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The three circles were:\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>Something I love to do.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>Something Iâm really good at.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>What the world needs.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>For years, Doâs life was split. He taught at ArtCenter College of Design for a meager $58 an hour because it filled his soul. Simultaneously, he ran a multi-million dollar production company, making commercials and music videos, but felt constrained by corporate clients micromanaging his creative work. One path was passion without profit; the other was profit without passion.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>It was only when a friend invited him to create content for YouTube that these two worlds merged. He could combine his love for teaching, design, art history, and entrepreneurship into a single pursuit. In finding this alignment, he found his purpose. For a creator, this is a lesson that can be applied to find a more authentic voice, a process Do details in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/find-your-niche-turn-passion-into-profit-ikigai-workshop\">his Ikigai workshop\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Noticeably absent from the three circles is âmake money.â Do believes that when you find that sweet spot in the middle, the money comes. \x3Cem>âIf the money hasnât come,â\x3C/em> he suggests, \x3Cem>âitâs because one of these circles is missing or itâs not complete.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Giving Economy\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Finding alignment allows you to operate within a different economic model. It is not the attention economy, but a subset of it Do calls the \x3Cstrong>Giving Economy\x3C/strong>. This model is built on a simple premise: give freely with no short-term expectations. The goal is not a transaction, but the building of relationships, community, and social bonds.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Instead of trading your content for money, you trade it for social currency: time, attention, status, support, and connection. This is the foundation of a true personal brand, a topic Do has explored extensively with masters like Daniel Priestley in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/personal-branding-masterclass-daniel-priestley-kpi\">this personal branding masterclass\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do highlights several creators who embody this philosophy:\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Trip Man:\x3C/strong>
1 A former lab technician who quit his job to drive for Uber. He turns his car into a karaoke party on wheels, creating singalong videos with his passengers. A single video earned 17 million views, a viral hit born not from a strategy to go viral, but from an authentic expression of his personality.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>SB Mowing:\x3C/strong> A computer science grad who quit his miserable job to mow overgrown lawns for elderly and disabled people for free. His videos recording their grateful reactions have garnered hundreds of millions of views. He does good in the world, and the world rewards him for it.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Devon Rodriguez:\x3C/strong> Once arrested for graffiti, now the most followed visual artist on TikTok. He found his breakout moment by drawing strangers on the subway and using the time to have genuine conversations, connecting art with human empathy.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Chu Tuan:\x3C/strong> A high-energy creator who travels to help people in need. He operates from a place of pure giving, and his success is a direct result of that selfless energy.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>These creators went viral, but it was a byproduct, not the objective. They are fully aligned with who they are, giving freely of their unique gifts. Their success isn't an accident; it's a consequence of their authenticity.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Building Unbreakable Trust\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The ultimate goal of this approach is not just community but trust. Branding, at its core, is building trust at scale. To achieve this, Do references the work of Harvard professor Frances Frei and her co-author Anne Morris. In their book \x3Cem>Begin with Trust\x3C/em>, they outline the three pillars of high trust relationships.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The \x3Cstrong>Trust Triangle\x3C/strong> consists of:\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Col>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Authenticity:\x3C/strong> You must show up as your real self. Closing the authenticity gap is critical. Stop performing. Share real opinions and be who you pretend to be online.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Empathy:\x3C/strong> Your audience must feel that you care about them more than you care about making money from them. This is why car salespeople struggle to build trust; their agenda is too transparent.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Logic:\x3C/strong> You must be able to explain your ideas clearly and in a way that is easy to follow. Your thinking must be sound and your arguments coherent.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ol>\n\n\x3Cp>If you want to reach more people, you must teach more people. This is the path to building a brand that lasts, a skill that requires advanced communication skills, as detailed in Do's session on \x3Ca href=\"/watch/advanced-communication-tactics-being-present\">how to speak so people listen\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Walk is the Destination\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>It can be tempting to see this argument as a rejection of success. But Do is quick to clarify that he is not anti-success; he is anti-chasing-the-wrong-kind-of-success. The Futurâs YouTube channel has over 2,000 videos and dozens of videos with over a million views.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Their highest-performing video has 4.5 million views on its own, with short-form versions hitting 50 million and 44 million views respectively. But a look at the analytics tells the real story. The video was published years before it went viral.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>It was a classic example of an overnight success story ten years in the making.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>There is nothing wrong with going viral. It just shouldnât be the goal. The goal is the work. Itâs the reps. Itâs the pursuit. As Alex Hormozi says, \x3Cem>âYou cannot wish for both strong character and an easy life. The price of each is the other.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The choice is yours. Do you want the cheap high of a viral moment, or do you want to build something that lasts? Do you want to chase a destination, or do you want to fall in love with the process?\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do leaves his audience with a final thought to guide them.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âThe person who loves walking will walk further than the person who loves the destination.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Learn to love walking.\x3C/p>",transcript:"Uh about a week ago, I was asked to speak on a topic and I've put together a brand new presentation for some of you. So bear with me if there are some typos and some weird things. And the reason why I did this is because they asked me to talk about the topic of virality. And nobody does a better job than that than Brendan Kaine. He's our friend. Uh we he's been on multiple podcasts with us. So Brendan, with all apologies, I'm going to take a little different approach and talk to you about something because when I think of Mind Valley, I think of a more spiritual personal uh pursuit versus this thing. There's this promise of social media that anyone can go viral. And I wonder why or where we got this idea from that anyone can go viral, right? And I think it's the social media networks have told us this and they make this promise like they dangle that little carrot for us to pursue and it keeps us chasing. So I want to ask you this question. If anyone can go viral. The question is should you? So I want you to think about this. Okay. Some of you may know this person. His
1name is Mark Manson. Do you know Mark Manson? Anybody? Okay, great. Well read group here. I love that. He wrote this book called The Subtle Art of Not Giving an F. And I heard him say this thing about if you want to be a 1enter, and I don't think he's talking about the top 1% of the richest people in the world, but the people who make the greatest impact in the world, the top 1enter, they have something in common. They all do this one thing. They are contrarians. When everyone's going one direction, they go the opposite direction. But any fool can go a different direction. So you have to be a correct contrarian. You have to find something that goes against what the mainstream is saying, whatever it is that you strongly believe in your heart. Not to do it because it's it's a gimmick, but because you believe in your heart, this isn't correct. Because if you say what everyone else is saying, you're going to disappear in all the noise. So, you have to become a correct contrarian. And I take this very personally because I am not trying to be contrarian, but I have very strong points of view on lots of things. So, I'm going to use this opportunity to probably undo everything that Brendan just said. Okay. So, we're gonna have a little bit of fun together. Okay. So, from the people who are laughing, I presume you were here for that. And for the people who are not laughing, maybe you're going to be mad at me or you're just new here. So, it's okay. This presentation exists with or without Brendan. He's a very important person. So, I want to ask you this question, okay, to reflect on this idea a little bit, which is in an era of fast fashion, what is the consequence of fast fashion? You know, certain brands that make things really quickly, they not only destroy legitimate fashion brands by knocking off their designs, but they're producing things that are such a rapid pace that they are the most harmful companies to the environment, even more than big oil. It's a shocking idea. So if we like fast fashion, we have to come to the consequence and understand what happens to all the clothes that we don't buy because it's become cheaper to replace the clothes than it is to wash the clothes. That's scary to me. And then in the era of fast food, what's the consequence of fast food? We have a lot of engineered things that last a really long time. Good for shelf life, not good for your body. And I don't know about you, I prefer things that are less processed over things that are processed in an era of easy money. What could be the problem with easy money? What could be the problem? Well, you know, get rich quick, you also lose it really quick. Easy come, easy go. Very high percentage of people who win the lottery wind up right back where they started. I wonder why. Because maybe, just maybe, there is something to the pursuit of learning something, working hard that is more desirable than the result itself. So, I hope you start to hear a theme here, and I'm going to build my argument. And then we think about things like a crash diet. Anybody here been on a crash diet? New Year's resolution to lose a lot of weight. The problem with crash diets there, the the hint is in the title itself crash. Maybe the word die. So, you're on this yo-yo diet, right? When you may start off large and get to medium small, but because this is not a lifelong pursuit because you see it as a very short-term goal to hit, maybe once you hit the goal, you regress because those habits haven't been formed inside of you. Kind of an important thing to think about. Okay? And then, I'm this is not a real term. Does anybody here want fast fans? Okay. Okay. I didn't think so. You don't have to agree with me. We can have an argument. This can be very interactive. So, people of convenience maybe. So, what's the problem with fast fans? Well, I don't know about you. This is a generated image, but it's a symbol for the things that are going on with engagement farms. You pay, you get the views. As soon as you stop paying, you don't get the views. You don't get the fake engagement. And I would rather have a hundred people who are dedicated who truly want to consume my content than a million people who are there because somebody's clicking it in some country. So that's that's it with that. So what I would like for you to maybe kind of rethink this idea of v virality. We came out of a pandemic. I don't know about you, but I'm not so keen on viruses myself. So the antidote probably to this idea of going viral is to be antiviral. So my talk is called the dark side of virality. Why success or easy success might become a prison sentence for many of you. Okay. So I'm going to ask this question and I do a style of talks where I'd like to interact with you as much as you're comfortable doing and I understand different cultures people like to talk some people don't. I will work with whatever you give me. Okay. So what is the goal of content creation? I just want you to reflect on this. So, if you're watching this on Zoom, just type it in. What is the goal of you creating content? I'm going to give you a second because maybe there's a delay. Then I'm going to ask the audience here, what's the goal of you create? How many people here are creating content? You make a post, a podcast, a carousel, uh a YouTube video, Instagram reel. So, almost everybody here, I'm glad to hear that at least the programming is right because this is the social media summit of the 1 billion followers summit. So, if you're here, maybe you're curious or you're actually doing something. So just randomly yell out just like a little bit at a time, not all at once cuz then I can't process that. What's the goal of you creating content >> right here? What's that >> connection? >> Oh yeah, hold on. Hold on everybody. Oh my god, I know where we are now. This is like uh bizarre. We're trading things. Yes. I just need to understand the word. I can manage >> uh sales. >> Sales to sell things. You make content to sell things. Okay, great. >> Educate. >> Educating. Are you an educator? >> Yeah. >> Okay, that's why. Okay. Over here. >> Awareness. >> Awareness. To build awareness so you can get sales or to educate? >> Educate. >> Okay. So, education. Okay. Yes. >> Entertain. >> Entertain. Do you tell jokes? Are you a funny guy? >> Uh, yeah. I I do funny vlogs and stuff. >> Okay. Maybe not right now, but Okay. Over here. >> Making money. >> Making money. >> Oh, we got to make some money, huh? Okay. Last one. >> What? >> Fashion. >> Fashion. >> No. Fashion. Fashion. Passion. >> Passion. I love that. What's your passion friend? >> Uh, history. >> Oh, so education. >> No. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. Okay. You know. Okay. One more. You're She's like, \"Pick me or I'm going to be mad at you. You're going to get an angry view for me.\" Yes. >> You want to create clones of yourself? >> Online. And then share your knowledge. >> Okay. It might be a language translation thing. I'm ESL too, so maybe there's another word. I think what you're saying is y
1ou can make a positive impact in the world and inspire people to do the things that you want to inspire them to do. That's what So you're talking about thought leadership through education. Yes. Beautiful. Okay. Thank you for participating. Okay. So I I took the guess that maybe some of you want to do awareness, build awareness either to promote and to create sales or awareness around an idea, eat less of this, eat more of that, uh be kinder, you know, those kinds of things or or meditate more, whatever the idea is. Some of you want conversion to create content to get more sales, right? And some of you, nobody said this, but does anybody create content to build trust? Yeah. Okay. There's an asterisk on that because we're going to come back to that in a little bit. Okay. I just realized I'm going too slow. I need to speed up. Okay. 10 minutes have been lost. Okay. When we do awareness, it's not just called content creation. It's called marketing. You understand that? Yes. So what I don't like is when we use one term to describe too many things then the words lose meaning and we have to be specific about the words that we use because the words shape our worlds. Yes. Okay. When we do conversion what is that called then? >> It's called sales. Very smart audience. So what I don't want to do is mix all this stuff up. But when we build trust what do we call that? >> Branding. Yes. Good job guys. Great job. Look at this. We agree. So far so good. Okay. So your goals. So, if we're going to create content, what's the goal of creating content? Well, let's let's play along. Let's say we really want to go viral. Does anybody here want to go viral? Raise your hands. >> Yes. Some of you are like less excited about raising your hand now because you're like, \"It's a trap. It's a trap. Don't do it.\" But let's be honest with each other. We can do that. So, let's say your goal is to be viral. Okay. So, what are the two options of going viral? Uh, as far as I can tell, yes or no. Okay. So, what happens if we actually get our wish of going viral? Here's what happens. Awesome. We get great reach. We get more engagement. We get more follows. Hallelujah. Maybe we make some money through monetization. We're really excited about making more content cuz shoot, we're rewarded for it, right? That's how the algorithms sink their hooks into you, by the way. And I went viral. You can just wackle with a little bit more confidence. Yes. Not like that, but you know
1what I mean. Okay. So, what happens now? Well, we we get into this loop. We went viral. We need to go viral again. There's a little problem here. Then we enter into this trap. It's called the validation loop where we're looking outside to be validated versus looking inwards to be validated, right? Exttrinsic versus intrinsic. That's the problem. So, even at your best possible outcome, you get what you want, but now you're stuck. You want it again and again. I'm going to go deeper into this in a second. So the question for you is, is it sustainable? Now, we need to have a common definition. What does it mean to go viral? It means that you have an outlier. Something that is 10x what you normally produce. You get 100 views, you get a,000 views. That's viral. If you do a,000 views, you get um what is it? 10,000 views. That's viral. So maybe my math is just bad, right? So 10x. How many people here have made a piece of content that's gone viral for them? Raise your hands. Okay, those of you keep your hands up. Keep your hands up. Air out the armpits. Some of you are sweating. Okay, you've gone viral. How many were able to repeat it? Lower your hand if you can't repeat it. And how many have been able to sustain it over and over and over again? Lower your hands now. Only a handful of people. The person in the front, of course, she's must be really smart and very good at making content. Beautiful. Okay. So, let's take the other path now. Okay. What happens when you don't go viral? This is the dark side that nobody is really paying attention to, which is now I'm not really motivated to make content anymore. And my ego, my self-esteem, my self-worth, my self- value takes a hit. And sometimes it leads to depression. And if you do this for long enough, it leads to burnout. Has anybody ever felt burnout on creating content? I mean, everybody's hand should be up right now. Let's tell the truth, people, please. Okay? And then what happens is eventually burnout leads to you quitting. So I presented to you a very structured argument why neither option is good. Yes, maybe we can argue later. So the problem with virality is it's based on an outcome. Do I get to go viral or not? And we have to ask this question. Is there something beneath the surface that's a bigger problem? So I'm going to present to you four really quick problems and we'll go through this. Okay. Number one is the seduction. Okay. Virality feels a lot of times very opaque. None of the platforms tell you how to go viral. So there's all these professional gurus, coaches, and programs that you can enter telling you what they guess what it is even though the platforms do not tell you. It's a very opaque process. And I think what they give they can take away. And I personally do not like to export my emotional well-being to a machine to the corporate overlords. Okay? Maybe you you like it, I don't like it. So I talked about this before. So what we used to look inside for whether or not we're doing the right thing, now we're trusting a machine that we do not understand from our corporate overlords who never talk to us to regulate our emotional well-being. I don't like this at all. And I'm going to share a little story with you. There's my friend, her name is Jodie Cook, and I've talked about her in a couple different ways. Jodie Cook on Instagram has 155 posts and 10.7,000 followers. Her typical content is 2,000 2,000. And wait a minute, there's a viral post right there. It has 2.9 million uh views and then it goes back to 4,229. Okay, now my friend Jodie Cook, who I featured on my channel, so it's a collab reel, has all this attention. She goes, \"Chris, I've never gone viral before. Is this what it feels like for you and your life?\" I'm like, \"No, I don't go viral either. I don't know what's going on.\" Okay, so let's take a look here. That's the clip. All right, look at the engagement. So they're like, \"Finally, I made it. I made it. So, Jod is um she writes for Forbes as a senior contributor. The impact of this one post going viral inspired her or maybe demanded of her to write an article and she wrote, \"What really happens when you go viral on Instagram?\" So, number one is your notifications are blowing up and she's trying to not pay attention to the phone, but it's going off all the time. She can't focus on anything else. She's constantly checking her phone to the point in which she has to turn it off and turn off everything. And now because she wants to keep checking the new numbers and the messages that are coming because it's so addictive, she came and do basic tasks and her inbox is crazy. It's flooded with messages. But there's this other part which maybe some of you have experienced. Threats, harassment, name calling, and bullying are coming in. Yeah. Anybody have experienced that before? The trolls. Yes. not nice and if you're not built for it, if you haven't earned it over time, it can be over
1whelming. So, I'm just going to read some of the more sanitized comments that were left on this post. Okay, number one, uh I can't read this. All right, it says, \"When all you are is money, how poor your life must be.\" This is a complete stranger. And there's a reason why they say this when you go viral, because they don't know you. They just see this thing and they judge you for everything based on one thing you said or the way that you look or how long your skirt is or if you wear a baseball cap when you talk or not. Okay, here's another one. Uggh. These guru prices are out of control. The coaching space needs serious regulation in place. This person, I guarantee you, has done zero research on looking into her programs and how she coaches. You feeling it? Have you had comments like this before? >> No. I love the fact that you're putting them out there. Is that wrong? >> You know what? You know what bullies don't like is being bullied themselves. >> How you like them apples. You know, I could tell you stories, but I'm not going to today >> unless there's time. What's that? >> Tell them. >> I love my bullies. I love the trolls. I'll tell you later. Love the enemy. It's the best approach. I make more content from the bullies than I do of the lovers and the fans. I'll tell you why. Because there's a friction point. The internet loves friction. So, I have an opportunity to clarify what I meant to say or how you might have misinterpreted this. It even usually it outperforms original posts. Okay, here's the last one. One word, escort. Yeah, I told you I'm giving you the more sanitized version. You guys know what escort means, right? Yes. Okay. I don't know. We're in Dubai. I don't know what we can talk about here. I'll probably have canceled. I will never be here again. Okay. Number two, the addiction. the addiction happens. You chase the dragon. Do you know the term chase the dragon? Okay, probably not here, but anyways, there's this flood of uh happiness, dopamine, and then dopamine leads to depression. Okay, and I think this whole thing is very close to a different kind of relationship, a perilous dealer addict relationship. You're the addict, you're not the dealer. I promise you. Okay. So, what do dealers do? They hook you with a sample, a viral moment. You feel the high and when you don't have anymore, you experience withdrawals. You don't know what to do with yourself and then you're constantly checking the stats. It's like you scratching like, \"Oh, I need another fix.\" And now you have to chase your next fix. This is what's happening, right? So, the weird thing is the day before your post went viral, you were really happy with yourself, weren't you? You're making progress. I'm communicating. I'm becoming a better communicator. I feel better about myself. So what used to make you happy doesn't make you happy anymore. Weird because once you experience this feeling, everything else sucks in comparison. So you're chasing this thing one more time. So now you start to go in this negative spiral, this vicious cycle where you have more bad moments than good moments. Who still wants to go viral? Let's just keep checking the room. Okay, cool. I like that. You are resilient. >> No, I have a point. It's not a >> Well, wait. Can I finish the presentation before you make your point? There will be a point when you can make that point, but not right now cuz I'm worried about my time. Okay, cool. We're about halfway through. Okay, number three, the prison. Okay, what happens is when you go viral, well, what do you do? You try to repeat that. You might have been an experiment. You might have done something really goofy. You might have like put ice on your face or something. Now, every video you got to throw ice on your face. So, you become a caricature of yourself and you no longer feel like it's you who's showing up. So, you become a slave to the algorithm. This is why it's a prison. Brendan, hate me later, but I'm I'm gonna keep moving on. There's this idea. It's called the authenticity gap. Okay? It's the space that exists between the real you, who you are in private to your very best, most trusted friends, and how you show up in the world. Like, I don't sit in the hotel room with my skirt on. It's too uncomfortable. This is how I show up here. So, I am in some way operating as a persona or a character of myself. I'm wearing a hat. I have a mic. These aren't normal things I would do if I was sitting there in the living room watching TV. There's no need for that. So the bigger the gap between the real you and the persona who you show up to be in this world determines the lack of authenticity. So what's happening when you go viral? You show up even less of yourself. You become a prisoner of your own stupid success because this is all that people want from you now. So you have to maintain this image that you've created because you are so in love with this idea of attention and sooner than later you start wearing this mask and you can't even see yourself anymore. Your interests, your values and your personal growth take a backseat to keeping the relationship between you and the dealer happy and stable. It doesn't sound so good anymore, I don't think. And every time you try something different, you want to return back to the real you. You get punished for it, don't you? Oh my gosh, I'm shadowbanned
1now. What happened? Oh, you have fake followers cuz how did you get all that growth and now no one cares? Because you did something that they don't want to see from you. They'll leave comments like this. This isn't what we followed you for. Okay. So this avatar, this thing that you created to go viral becomes your prison. Okay. Number four, the awakening. What you start to realize is being viral doesn't mean you've done anything valuable. I'm sure you've scrolled through the feeds on Instagram, on Tik Tok. I think they call it brain rot for a reason. It's not necessarily valuable. It's just what the algorithm wants. And the algorithm, depending on the platform, rewards you every 10th post to give you an artificial boost. They give you a little love bomb. We love that you're on your 10th post. So, we're going to juice the numbers for you because they are like drug dealers. They want to keep encouraging you enough so you don't quit because the the platforms win when more people create. And you you start to understand that bigger reach doesn't mean that your message resonates anymore and that followers doesn't equal community. And I will go into that. Okay. Now, if you are here like many of us, you're trying to develop your personal brand, right? You guys are trying to develop your personal brand. What you need to understand what branding is. It's the stickiness of the relationship. It's how loyal people are to you. And there's simple tests. All you have to do is ask them to do something simple. Comment this. Go vote for me. Like, I'm I'm up for an award. Please vote for me. Please nominate me as a speaker for this event. or who knows an organizer who can put me in touch with somebody who will do the introductions. So, you can test the strength of those relationships in the community just to see how sticky it is. Okay, now here's the story. I'm sure some of you know this. VidCon is a big conference for YouTubers to create content. Post pandemic, they open it back up in 2022. Tik Tok is blowing up like crazy. It's sweeping all over social media. There's a good chance that if you're on Tik Tok, it's because it was in 2022 that everybody was telling you you must be on Tik Tok. Yes. Okay. So, what did VidCon do? They invited some of the biggest Tik Tockers with millions of followers to come and speak. I was at that conference. And this is an illustration of what those rooms looked like. Massive rooms for 500 to 800 people. Even for some of the biggest creators that you know and love, about 20 to 30 seats. Not percentage, 20 to 30 seats. fewer people than the people in this room for a room six times as big as this room. So, there was a Business Insider article in July of 2022. Why Tik Tockers may face problems forming deep connections with fans despite the platform's hold on Gen Z. And there's a woman, her name is Grace Africa. She has 1.3 million followers on Tik Tok. She she said, \"When you set up a meet and greet and no one comes, how heartbreaking is that? this relationship that you thought you were building wasn't a relationship at all because you're chasing a number. So, here's what I conclude. Short-term fame doesn't build lasting bonds. Again, I'd rather have an army of 100 like Leonitis have my back than 10,000 people who never show up to help me fight. Okay. So, we're going to move into the light a little bit because you're like, \"This is super depressing, bro.\" You're like, I want my money back. If you if I charge you, I'll give it back to you. But I haven't. So there we go. Deliberation. Okay. So what we need to do is to move away from the metrics to what really matters to us. And how you answer this question is super individual to what your real goals are. Okay. Now if we if you need clients and all of us do need clients to the degree. If you need sales, you need revenue because you are able to sustain a business, that's fantastic. Invest in marketing. Invest in a sales program. Invest in sales training. But this is not why we make content in my opinion. In my humble opinion. Okay. So what matters to you? Let's use this same decision flowchart again and say, well, what's the goal of creating content? Now does somebody have a new answer for me besides going viral? >> Create raving fans. Okay. >> And having fun. >> Having fun. Okay. Here's the cool thing. Creating raving fans is not the goal. It's a byproduct of a goal. Having fun may or may not be the goal, but it could also be a byproduct of the goal. Okay. Now, I heard my friend Blair N share this on stage. I'm going to screw up the story. They had like a hundred entrepreneurs very successful in a room. They asked every single one, write down on a post-it note, what's important to you? And out of a hundred different entrepreneurs from all over different spectrums of success in different industries, they almost all wrote the same answer. Do you know
1what that answer is? Okay, check this out. They want to grow personally while helping other people. Amazing. You're like surprised. Look at his eyes just got three times bigger on me. It's like, close your eyes, bro. You're blinding me right now. I'm just kidding. Okay, so maybe the goal in creating content should be personal development to better ourselves while helping other people. That to me is worth more than going by row. Okay, so let's look at the same decision. What happens if you work on personal development and it works out well? What are the rewards? Well, you feel like you grew. You develop new skills. You become a communicator. You build the the ability to like rhetoric, like the ability to persuade people with the spoken word. You find a lot more about yourself. Your identity gets more defined. I found my voice in this world. And because I know who I am, I'm more confident and I care less about what people say about me. That's a pretty good one. Pretty good. So, if you repeat that, that's awesome. It's excellent. What happens if you don't achieve that? You learn because in life, you either win or you learn. So, it didn't work. Cool. It's an opportunity to learn. And if you keep paying attention to the lessons, you will eventually get there. I think that's more worthwhile. The flip. Okay. Uh this goes directly against what Brenda just said, so let's do it. Right. Uh, quality versus quantity. He goes quality matters, right? Didn't he say something like that? Chris gonna say something whatever. All right. I know that's not how he sounded. He's more monotone than that. Okay, we're friends, guys. We're friends. At least up until today. Okay. Are you familiar with this book, Art and Fear? Observations on the perils of art making. Okay. It's written by David Bales and Ted Orland. Okay. And there's an art experiment and it's been changed a little bit, but they they gave a an assignment to pottery students. And group one, they divided class in half. Group one, they said, \"Hey, here's your only criteria. You're graded on how many pots you produce.\" And group two, the other half of the room, they said, \"Hey, you're graded on one single piece. Go make a masterpiece.\" Okay? If you don't know the story, some of this might surprise you. Okay? So, let me just reiterate. Group A purely measured on how many pounds of pottery you make. Group B, just one. We're going to grade it to see how great it is. Here's the surprising result to all of this stuff. Okay. Now, you would think the ones had all this time to craft the most beautiful pot. And if you're a creative PE person, you always say, \"If the client gave me more time, it would be better.\" That's a lie you tell yourself every single day. Okay? Because creativity expands or contracts to meet a deadline. That's how creativity works. Everything else is a lie or an excuse. Okay? So it turns out many of the students who were asked just to do one piece did not even complete one piece. Why? They were trapped by making the perfect thing because no such thing as a perfect thing. The better work consistently came from the other group who didn't even have the criteria of making perfect because there's a reason why because quality leads to quality. So we've been getting this wrong. I'm a designer classically trained. This is what they emphasize every single day into our brain. But luckily, I don't listen so good. Quality, quality, quality. No, I'm going to put in my reps. And I'll tell you why. Uh, this is a Tony Robbins quote. Repetition is the mother of skill. You got to do it over and over and over again. Because you are what you repeatedly do. Yes, that's why how you do one thing is how you do everything. Okay, just think about that. And then I added to this skill is the foundation of confidence. And would you like to be more confident? I would. Okay. It's the wish I would have for all of you is to be more confident in yourselves, in your decision-making, and who you show up to be online. Uh, one of my favorite people in the world, Jim Ran, said, \"What you become in the pursuit of your goals is more important than the accomplishment itself.\" Do you understand that? What you become in the pursuit of virality or content creation is how who you become. So, goals are great. What's more important is the development that happens within you because no matter what happens at the end, no one can take this away from you. I think that's why we're at conferences like this. So we can learn something so we can take away having been transformed to live richer lives. Okay? It's the pursuit and not the goal itself. So I want to talk to you a little bit about alignment. Okay? Many years ago I'm in Las Vegas at a conference, a technology conference, and I'm meeting up with a former student of mine. He's an entrepreneur. He's doing really well. We're meeting up at some Las Vegas hotel bar. We're sitting down and having a meal. And he says to me before the waiter comes out and takes our order. He goes \"Chris I noticed something about you. You seem really happy. Like you're almost glowing right now.\" I'm like, \"I am?\" He said, \"What's going on? We haven't seen each other in a couple of years.\" Former student of mine. I said, \"You know what, Greg? I think I've figured out the secret to my life.\" And I take out a little napkin. I said, \"You have a pen? Give me something here.\" It's the cliche napkin drawing, r
1ight? And I drew something like this. Not this. This is AI. Okay. I drew three circles. I think I finally figured out my life in my 40s. Something that I love to do, something I'm really good at, and what the world needs. Cuz right around here in about 20145, a former classmate of mine invited me to make content on YouTube. You're thinking, YouTube was that moment, that inflection point in your life? That sounds super shallow. Well, I'll tell you why. Because for 15 years, I taught at Art Center. It filled my soul with joy. It recharged me all the way. But the problem was when I was teaching at school, they paid me $58 an hour. That was less money than I paid freelancers to work for me. So, what they were doing is they were tapping into my passion for teaching and they were saying, \"Well, we'll pay you with passion.\" as the entrepreneur. I'm like, hm, that sounds like exploitation. And I did it for 15 years. So, if you want to criticize me for pursuing the money, you do something for 15 years where you don't get paid and tell me how you like it. On the other side, I was running my production company, making commercials and music videos for uh what Caitlyn was sharing with you all. I won't repeat that now. I made a lot of money. I made millions of dollars. Actually, I made a couple million dollars before I turned 25. But the corporate overlords always told me what to do. Oh, make it bigger. Oh, uh, that pixel, can you move it one pixel to the left? We don't like that shade of green. Can you make it more emerald? Oh, okay. Right. So, when my friend invited me to make YouTube content with him, I finally found something where I could merge all of the things that I love. Entrepreneurship. I love reading. I love teaching. I love drawing. I like comic books. I I consume pop culture, art history design literature everything. I get to combine everything about me and I get to put it out into the world and I'll figure out a way to make money. So, the first part, there's a reason why no cir
1cle exists on here that says make money. Because I believe when you find that sweet spot in the middle of all these things, the money comes. I suggest to you right now, if the money hasn't come, it's because one of these circles is missing or it's not complete. And I encourage you to investigate that. Okay, I have a story to share with you. Her name is Simona and she was my driver from Black Lane and she took me from my house to the airport in Los Angeles and Simona was this incredible Middle Eastern woman and I happened to be sitting in the front seat. I was just talking to her and she's super interesting. I'm like, \"Hey, uh, what are your passions in life? What do you do?\" She goes, \"Well, I drive for work.\" I I'll put it here. I drive for work. My passion is I'm a hair stylist. I I love to do coloring and I speak 12 languages. My mind was blown. She goes, \"Six fluently where I can read and write.\" I'm like, \"This is amazing.\" And she owns five cars, so she owns her own chauffeur business. She owns two salons, sold one of them recently. And I said to her, Simona, are you familiar with this thing called the attention economy? Because what she was telling me sounded like the old me. The old me who did different things to satisfy different needs versus one thing that put them all together. She goes, \"No.\" I was like, \"Well, let me tell you about it.\" Okay. The attention economy, as some people would argue, is the economy. Whoever can control attention controls opportunities. Mr. Beast is here. He's arguably the most successful person doing this. And underneath a subset, this is my theory here. Underneath the attention economy is the gift or giving economy. Okay? Bear with me. It's a concept. I'm working on it. If you don't like it, again, no refunds, okay? The gift or giving economy is built on on like five principles, okay? or five ideas, not some principles that you give freely with no short-term expectations where all you're doing is to do it to build relationships, community, and strengthen social bonds. No money, we're doing it because it feels good to give. Yes. Okay. So what you're doing is in lie of getting money, you trade money, for time, their time, their attention, perhaps some status because you're the educator, you're the thought leader. You trade it maybe for support because people who do good things get support from other people. They give money, they support you, introduce you to people and for connection. So what you're doing is instead of getting money, you're getting social currency. Now, I want to share with you four creators that highlight this concept of the giving or the gift economy. Okay, really quickly. The first one is a person named the trip man. Does anybody know the trip man? Trip man's awesome. You know the trip man and you're already smiling. Why? Because the trip man, he he's a former lab technician. He just quit his job and he wants to drive Ubers. It's crazy. Remember, he's a lab technician. Okay? So he rigs his Ubers with lights, microphones, funny party lights, and a whole bit. And when you get in the car, before he drives you anywhere, he says, \"Pick a song.\" And they pick a song, and they do karaoke. So on his account, he says he turns rides into singalong parties that pickups with personality, good vibes, and better playlists. That's on his bio. Okay. So his breakout moment was this song going to make you sweat. If you know that song, everybody dance now. 17 million views. Yeah. Wait a minute, Chris. Are you arguing against yourself now? Isn't that viral? It is viral as a byproduct of him being fully aligned with who he is. You all understand this? It's not like I think he woke up one day or maybe he did. Brandon's going to Brandon's going to break the door. I helped him. I coached it. What are you talking about? It could be. It's dangerous. I know. I'm going to roll the dice and hope it's not. Okay. But I love this thing because he's giving so freely. The amount of money he makes from an Uber fair is nothing compared to the amount of money that we support him with our views and then therefore the platforms give him money. Thousands of dollars versus hundreds of dollars or tens of dollars. Yes. Pretty cool. Yes. Okay. Next. Next one is a guy named Spencer B. SB mowing. Do you guys know Spencer? Yeah. You know everybody. You guys are really good. You're in the social media track. I understand. You got it. Okay. Um I'm I'm not sure about all these facts, but he has millions of followers. uh he was a Kansas state computer science grad and after working his miserable job for two to three years he quit and what he does he goes in and helps old people who can't afford lawn service with really nasty lawns to do the work for free and first they're a little skeptical like what free what do you mean no strings attached no strings attached remember the giftgiving economy no expectations so he does this and you know one of the videos get 100 million views that's a lot of money by doing good in the world. I think I'm in the right place to share this message with you. And the reaction, it's like sometimes it's like even a man like me might tear up a little bit or maybe got dusty in the room because it's like, \"Oh my god, I can see my lawn again. This is pretty cool.\" Number three is a guy named Devin Rodriguez. Do you guys know Devon? He is the most followed uh visual artist on TikTok. Uh I saw Deon speak at Adobe Max. Pretty incredible story. He was arrested for graffiti at 13. He was rejected from art school and n
1ow he's the most followed visual artist. And some of his achievements is he's gotten to meet Oprah and uh Mel Robbins and and and Joe Biden drawing. That's pretty cool. And his breakout moment, as he explained, was he was sitting on the subway and he met this person who had the craziest tattoos and piercings like tongue split and the whole bit. Somebody who's usually misunderstood and he draws this person and he decides to have a conversation. Takes a little bit of time to draw. So he he infuses art with wanting to get to know people. That's pretty cool. Okay, one last one. Do you guys know this person, Chu Tuan? You must know this person. When I ran into this kind of like, what is this guy doing? He must be or something. I don't know. He's explosive. He's banging things, right? Same story over and over again. He's just helping people. And the success that he gets from doing this, I believe this is what he would be doing if he wasn't doing this. Okay. So, I'm going to ask you this really quick question. Uh I'm a little bit overtime. I I'll get off stage. I promise y'all. Vision, is it okay? Okay. Yes. I love the double thumbs up. I love that. Okay. So, I want to ask you this quick question. How might Simona participate in the giving economy? Some ideas online. Please type it in. We'll check later. >> Make haircuts in the car. >> Make haircuts in the car. Yes. Here's what I told her. Have you ever thought about driving uh like in a van to do coloring? She goes, \"Yeah, but you know, it's a long drive.\" I'm like, \"No, no, no. Here's what I think you need to do. you need to go into ethnic communities and talk to them and all of a sudden you speak Arabic or Farsy or whatever it is and they're like, \"Wow.\" And you film that whole thing. Yeah, it's a $300 color job, but it's a $3,000 giving act. And it's really cool to see that. So eventually you can do this where you charge nothing and you just go to find really interesting people who are transforming the process when they see themselves differently. Isn't that wonderful? I don't know if she's going to do this, but it's my wish for her. And it's also my wish for all of you. Okay, remember how I said before like branding is about building trust at scale. Building trust at scale. I want to just introduce really quickly to this idea. Uh it it's a Francis Frey and Anne Morris wrote about this. It's called beginning with trust. If you want to have high trust factor, number one, you have to show up authentically as yourself. Are you who you pretend to be online? So we have to close the authenticity gap. Stop stop performing. Stop becoming a character or an avatar of yourself. Be the real you. Share real opinions and ideas. Okay. Number two, it's empathy. It's not empathy the way you think. We need to feel like you care about your audience more than your need to make money. This is really important. So, car salespeople not great. Time share salespeople not great at that. We know what they want. They want to meet their numbers more than they want to take care of us. Yes. Last one is you have to be logical. You have to be able to explain ideas in ways that are easy to follow. So I think the pursuit for you is to become a better educator to teach people. And my saying is this. If you want to reach more people, teach more people. Okay. Uh this is a quote from Alex Ramosi. You cannot wish for both strong character and an easy life. The price of each is the other. You want an easy life or you want to be have to have strong character. Okay, this is my full circle moment. Okay, it looks like I'm I'm like antiviral and like I don't want to be successful at all. I started a company, a YouTube channel called The Future in 2014. So, some quick stats for you. We've made over 2,000 videos, a gazillion hours, over a million dollars in revenue, and we've had 24 videos that have had million plus views. So, there's nothing wrong with going viral. Okay, that should not be the goal, though. Here's our number one highest performing video. Has 4 and a half million views. And the shorts, two short versions, one has 50 million and the recut of the same video has 44 million. Pretty cool. But the part I want to show to you is this part. Lo
1ok at the gap between when we released it and when we went viral. We are the classic example of an overnight success story 10 years in the making. So you remember my friend Jody Cook. It's a series that I do and the format's called Man on the Street where I go up to people and ask them how much do you charge an hour? And do you know who told me to say that? Mr. Brendan Kane told me to say that. Okay. So, I'm going to end it with this quote before I get out of here. The person who loves walking will walk further than the person who loves the destination. I want to encourage all of you to just learn to love walking, to take that step, and keep taking that step because one day when you look up, you'll be surprised how far you've come. I'm out of time, everybody. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Craig. I got to give you this.",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaDK_zVy1Cc",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/GaDK_zVy1Cc",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GaDK_zVy1Cc/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:2528,duration_display:"42m",view_count:65583,published_at:"2026-03-24T17:30:09+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"STOP Trying To Go Viral... Do This Instead | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do reveals the dark side of going viral and provides a new framework for content creation focused on personal growth, alignment, and building trust.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-03-25T02:11:40.924983+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:05.592625+00:00",faq:$R[130]=[$R[131]={answer:"Going viral can lead to a dangerous addiction to external validation, making you a 'slave to the algorithm.' In his talk, Chris Do explains that it also opens you up to intense harassment, causes burnout, and can trap you in a persona that is not authentic to who you are.",question:"What is the dark side of going viral?"},$R[132]={answer:"Instead of chasing virality, Chris Do advises creators to focus on personal development and helping others. The goal should be to find alignment between what you love, what you're good at, and what the world needs. This internal focus builds sustainable skill and confidence.",question:"What should creators focus on instead of going viral?"},$R[133]={answer:"Chris Do references a study from the book 'Art and Fear' where students graded on the number of pots they made produced higher quality work than those graded on a single 'perfect' pot. The lesson is that repetition builds skill. Consistent creation and experimentation are more effective than waiting for perfection.",question:"How does quantity lead to quality in content creation?"},$R[134]={answer:"The Giving Economy is a concept Chris Do introduces where creators give freely without short-term expectations of financial return. By providing value and building relationships, they earn social currency like trust, attention, and community. This builds a more loyal and engaged audience than chasing empty metrics.",question:"What is 'The Giving Economy' for content creators?"}],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:8228,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"stop trying to go viral",secondary_keywords:$R[135]=["why virality is bad","content creation burnout","sustainable content strategy","build trust with content","the giving economy"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[136]=[],og_title:null,og_description:null,og_image:null,content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[137]={id:"ba26a26b-cef9-47d3-89df-8faf7132441e",video_id:"Zys3dt503Q4",title:"If I Started Over as a Graphic Designer, I'd Do This to Hit $100K",slug:"graphic-designer-roadmap-to-100k-a-year",topic_tag:"CAREER STRATEGY",secondary_tags:$R[138]=["FREELANCING","BUSINESS","PRICING"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do provides a five-stage roadmap for graphic designers to systematically build a six-figure career, moving from survival to scale.",pull_quote:"Give the client the best work that they paid for, not the best work that you can do.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[139]=[$R[140]={headline:"Master the Craft First",explanation:"Before seeking high-value clients, you must develop core technical and conceptual skills. This foundational stage is non-negotiable for long-term success."},$R[141]={headline:"Specialize to Stabilize",explanation:"Saying yes to everything keeps you in survival mode. Define an ideal client profile and curate a portfolio that speaks directly to their needs to build stability."},$R[142]={headline:"Systematize to Control Chaos",explanation:"Shift from hourly rates to project fees and productize your services. Creating systems for onboarding, project management, and delivery reduces chaos and increases profit."},$R[143]={headline:"Delegate to Truly Scale",explanation:"Your time is your most valuable asset. To scale past six figures, you must delegate tasks and elevate your role from creator to quality controller and leader."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>Why Most Designers Never Escape Survival Mode\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Most designers never make it past survival mode. Itâs not a question of talent. It is a question of guidance. Someone has not shown them how to build a business, not just a portfolio.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The Futur's founder, Chris Do, has spent over a decade coaching thousands of creators out of this exact trap, guiding them toward six-figure incomes and beyond. The truth is simple: earning $100,000 a year as a graphic designer is not a matter of luck. It is a reality built on a clear, intentional system.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The journey from exhausted freelancer to thriving business owner happens across five distinct stages. Understanding where you are is the first step toward getting where you want to be.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Stage One: The Foundation of Survival\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The first stage is \x3Cstrong>survival\x3C/strong>. You know youâre in it when your calendar is a chaotic mix of logos, flyers, and social media posts. Some are paid. Others are for the mythical currency of âexposure.â The work is inconsistent, the clients are forgettable, and the income is unpredictable.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This stage is defined by exhaustion and self-doubt. Youâre questioning the value you provide because youâre saying yes to everything and no to nothing. But this is not failure. It is simply a lack of awareness.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The only way out is to build a foundation. First, you must master the tools of your trade. \x3Cem>âYou can't expect anyone to teach you these things,â\x3C/em> Do states. The good news is that free and low-cost resources are abundant.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>For designers, proficiency in the Adobe Creative Suite, specifically Illustrator, Photoshop, and InDesign, is standard. If you lack access, Do advises finding free alternatives and mastering them. The tool is secondary to the skill. To build that skill, he recommends following creators who produce high-quality tutorials on platforms like YouTube and Instagram. He points to designers like OG ZIT_ZET and Adam Wagner of Hey Adam Design as examples of educators who can accelerate your technical ability.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The goal is not just to learn one way to perform a task. Itâs to learn multiple ways and, eventually, the best way. Efficiency with your software is a prerequisite for professional work.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>With technical skills in place, the next layer is conceptual design ability. For any designer, this begins and ends with one discipline: typography.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âIf you're a creative, if you're a designer, you need to learn typography,â\x3C/em> Do insists. He recommends a core library of books that every designer should not just own, but internalize.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>Stop Stealing Sheep & Find Out How Type Works\x3C/em> by Erik Spiekermann teaches the fundamental principles of typography with accessible language.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>Typography: Form and Communication\x3C/em> by Philip Meggs and Rob Carter offers a more academic and comprehensive look at the discipline.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>The work of Josef Müller-Brockmann, a pioneer of the Swiss Style, must be studied and emulated. His structured, grid-based approach is timeless.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>The Geometry of Design\x3C/em> by Kimberly Elam reveals the underlying mathematical structures and grids that create harmony in design.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>A Smile in the Mind\x3C/em> teaches witty, conceptual communication, bridging the gap between aesthetics and ideas.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âRead those books cover to cover,â\x3C/em> Do advises. \x3Cem>âRead it multiple times until you start to understand the principles.â\x3C/em> For those seeking structured learning, Do also developed his own typography course, born from the same methods he used to train himself and even his younger brother, a professional visual effects artist for over two decades.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The next step is to create proof. As you learn, you will generate artifacts. In the beginning, this means copying the masters. Do recalls his own design school days, tracing Swiss designs over tissue paper with a ruler and pen to internalize the feeling of proportion, spacing, and contrast.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This practice is essential, but it comes with a critical rule: you cannot exhibit copied work as your own. Be transparent. Show the original and your emulation. This process itself can become compelling content for social media, attracting other designers and, eventually, the art directors who might hire you.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do not rush this stage. This deep, foundational work is what separates struggling designers from successful ones. You are learning timeless principles that will outlast any trend.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Eventually, emulation gives way to experimentation. You combine your influences with your own cultural perspective to develop a unique visual language. This is where your portfolio is born.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>How many pieces do you need? \x3Cem>âThe answer is going to surprise you,â\x3C/em> Do says. \x3Cem>âIt's not 50. It's not 20. It's not even 10. It's somewhere between three to five pieces that show a consistent level of thinking and aesthetic.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Edit ruthlessly. One weak piece in a portfolio makes a potential client assume that is the quality you will deliver. Focus on demonstrating a core competency, not a scattered diversity of unmastered skills. This is the exit visa from the survival stage.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Stage Two: The Focus of Stability\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The second stage is the quest for \x3Cstrong>stability\x3C/strong>. If survival is about acquiring skills, stability is about applying them with focus. The biggest obstacle here is being stretched too thin.
1Chasing every supposed opportunity erodes your confidence and delays real progress.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The solution is to zero in on what Do calls an \x3Cstrong>Ideal Client Profile (ICP)\x3C/strong>. This means making a difficult choice: deciding who you serve and, by extension, who you do not.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âWhen you try to aim for too much, it becomes really hard to focus,â\x3C/em> Do explains. Without a niche, you never understand a client's deep pain points, and every project is a brand-new learning experience. This is a recipe for burnout, not growth.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>To identify your ICP, pick a handful of people or companies you admire. Then, follow them everywhere. Subscribe to their newsletters, listen to their podcasts, and consume everything they produce. The goal is to move from a cold stranger to a familiar face.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do lays out a specific engagement strategy. When your target ICP posts content, be one of the first to respond, ideally within the first 15 minutes. Ask thoughtful questions. Contribute to the dialogue. Reshare their content. Over time, you will become recognizable.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>After a period of consistent, valuable interaction, at least 30 days, you earn the right to reach out directly. The best time to do this is right after they have engaged with something youâve posted. Now you know they see you.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The direct message should be short, transparent, and courteous. It is not a hard sell. It is an offer to help.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do freestyles an example: \x3Cem>âHey Bob, I really admire your company's work. I've been following you for a number of months. If there's ever an opportunity where you have overflow work that you can't do in-house, I'd love the opportunity to help you out. I'm willing to work on a trial basis for whatever dollar amount that you think is fair. Here's a link to my work. Let me know if there's a good fit here.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This is a low-risk offer for them and a high-potential opportunity for you. If you don't get a response, a polite follow-up a week or so later is acceptable. If there's still silence, back off. Aggressiveness kills opportunities.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>While this outreach is happening, you must build a portfolio that does the selling for you. This is different from your social media feed, which can be a mix of process and experiments. Your professional website must be a precision tool, featuring three to five case studies designed for one person: your ideal client.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âYou want to close the imagination gap,â\x3C/em> Do stresses. If you want to work with biotech companies, your portfolio must look like it was made for biotech companies. A client should look at your work and think, \x3Cem>âWow, we could have used this on our last campaign.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>A case study is not just a gallery of images. It is a story with a clear structure:\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Client:\x3C/strong> A brief introduction to who they are.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Problem:\x3C/strong> A clear identification of the challenge you were hired to solve.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Process:\x3C/strong> Show your work. This means saving iterations and documenting your exploration. Show the breadth of your thinking, not just minor variations on one idea.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Solution:\x3C/strong> Present the final design in context using high-quality mockups. Mockups are not a luxury; they are essential for helping a client see the design in the real world.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>At this stage, your financial goal becomes tangible. To make $100,000 a year, you need to bill approximately $500 a day for ten months. This a principle further detailed in Do's classic breakdown, \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-i-went-from-charging-500-to-100000-for-a-logo-pricing-deep-dive\">How I Went From Charging $500 to $100,000 For A Logo\x3C/a>. You must target markets that can afford this rate. Typically, these are coastal hubs like New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, where companies are accustomed to higher costs.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>When you get a qualified prospect on a call, you must be prepared to talk about money. When they ask for the cost, tell them. If youâre charging a project rate, state it clearly. Do not defer the price to a proposal. Gauge their reaction. If they hesitate, address it directly. This is a sales skill you must develop.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>In these early days of building stability, be selective. Take on projects that will be showcase pieces. As Do puts it, \x3Cem>âThere is absolutely no point, in my opinion, to do low-budget work that also looks like ass.â\x3C/em> You get no money, a bad experience, and a portfolio piece you have to hide.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>If you take on a low-budget project, it must offer something else of value: a perfect portfolio piece, an entry into your target industry, or a relationship with people you deeply admire. This strategic thinking moves you from survival to stability.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Stage Three: The Structure of Systems\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Once you have a steady flow of work, you enter the next stage: building systems. Here, you transition from being a freelancer selling time to a business owner selling outcomes. The chaos of the stability stage, where every project feels different, must be replaced with structure.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The first and most critical system to change is billing. Stop selling your time. Day rates and hourly billing punish you for being efficient. They disincentivize you from investing in better tools, faster processes, and smarter workflows. More importantly, they create immense anxiety for the client.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âHow long will this take? What will this cost?â\x3C/em> The answer is always a guess. You remove this anxiety by providing a flat project fee. The client knows the total cost upfront, creating certainty and trust. This is the first step to truly professionalizing your service.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>To reach the $100,000 goal, you need a financial framework. Assuming ten working months a year, the target is $10,000 per month. If you complete four projects a month, each project must have a minimum fee of $2,500. This number becomes your policy.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>When a client offers $1,800, you don't negotiate down. You state your policy. \x3Cem>âMy minimum project fee is $2,500,â\x3C/em> you say. \x3Cem>âIs there a way that we can figure out to give you what you want and that you're able to meet my minimum?â\x3C/em> Sticking to this minimum is a non-negotiable part of building a real business.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>With a pricing system in place, you must then \x3Cstrong>productize your services\x3C/strong>. This is about turning a chaotic, bespoke process into a repeatable, streamlined experience. Itâs about designing the customer journey from the first point of contact to the final delivery.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Map it out. A typical journey includes:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Onboarding:\x3C/strong> A standardized package of documents and information for every new client.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Project Setup:\x3C/strong> Consistent file structures in Dropbox and a project management board in a tool like Trello.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Milestones:\x3C/strong> A clear calendar with defined checkpoints for reviews and approvals.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Deliverables:\x3C/strong> A specification sheet that clearly outlines what the client provides and what you will deliver.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>This is also where you build a library of templates. If you design brand identities, you should have a brand style guide template ready to go. You should have mockup templates for t
1-shirts, packaging, and digital assets. You are not building these from scratch every time. The upfront work to create these templates pays dividends on every subsequent project, freeing you to focus on the creative work that matters.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Even your invoicing becomes a system. Do offers a small but powerful perception-shifting tip: never start your invoices at number 001. Start at 00201. It signals that this isn't your first project, building subconscious confidence in the client. The payment schedule itself is a system: 50% upfront, 25% at a key milestone, and 25% upon completion.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Where you show your work is also a system. Do recommends a presence on platforms like Behance and Dribbble, alongside your own website built on a simple, fast platform like Squarespace or Webflow. He cautions against relying on marketplaces like Fiverr or Upwork, where the client mindset is typically wired for the lowest possible price. \x3Cem>âBe careful where you present your work and where the clients come from because they have a very different mindset,â\x3C/em> he warns.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>If paid work is slow, use the time to create self-initiated projects. Do points to the example of designer Allan Peters, who gained notoriety by doing hypothetical redesigns of famous brands. This approach generates high-quality portfolio pieces and attracts the right kind of attention, an idea essential to the advice in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/proven-strategies-attract-ideal-clients-business-bootcamp-pt2\">Proven Strategies to Attract Your Ideal Clients\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The goal of the systems stage is to take the chaos you experience and turn it into an automated, predictable, and profitable machine. You start treating your creative work as a defined offer, not just an output. This is how you move from inconsistent income to consistent $5,
1000 to $8,000 months.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Stage Four: The Leverage of Scale\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>At the fourth stage, you are consistently hitting $10,000 months. You have skills, focus, and systems. The new challenge is scale. How do you grow beyond your own capacity without burning out?\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>It is far easier to get more work from an existing happy client than to find a new one. The same is true for referrals. When a client expresses genuine gratitude, that is the single best moment to ask for a referral.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do recommends the method taught by sales expert Phil M. Jones in his book \x3Cem>Exactly What to Say\x3C/em>. The script is simple and effective.\x3C/p>\n\x3Col>\n\x3Cli>You ask, \x3Cem>âCan I ask you for a favor?â\x3C/em> They will almost always say yes.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>You say, \x3Cem>âDo you know one person who is like you who would need something like what I've been able to do?â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>They will likely think of someone. You then ask, \x3Cem>âWhen you said yes, who were you thinking of?â\x3C/em> They give you a name.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>Finally, you ask for one more favor: for them to reach out to that person and make an introduction so you are not a stranger when you follow up. This is a masterclass in influence, a topic Do explores in depth with \x3Ca href=\"/watch/get-more-clients-referrals-how-to-influence-customers-phil-jones-interview\">Jones himself in their full interview\x3C/a>.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ol>\n\n\x3Cp>This strategy allows you to scale your client base with more of the people you already love working with. To support this growth, you must stay focused on the \x3Cstrong>Three Ps: People, Product, and Promotion\x3C/strong>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>People:\x3C/strong> These are the individuals who will support you in design, project management, and marketing. You cannot scale alone.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Product:\x3C/strong> This refers to the systems you built in the previous stage. You must continue to refine and optimize your templates and workflows.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Promotion:\x3C/strong> This is your content creation engine. It must run consistently to fill the top of your sales funnel.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>Herein lies a dangerous trap. When work is plentiful and money is flowing in, the first thing creatives stop doing is marketing. \x3Cem>âDo not take your eye off on the need to create content,â\x3C/em> Do warns. If you slow down your content machine, the leads will inevitably dry up, and you will be forced to start from a dead stop. You must dedicate at least 10% of your resources to consistent marketing and content creation.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The core goal of the scale stage is to delegate. You must protect your most valuable, non-renewable resource: time. The rule for delegation is simple: if you can pay someone less than what you charge to do a task, you should find someone to help you.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This may mean hiring another designer for production tasks, a project manager to handle client communication, or a virtual assistant to manage your marketing. To consistently hit your revenue goals, you need a predictable number of leads. If your closing rate is 50%, and you need four projects a month, then you need eight qualified leads every single month. If you need more, you focus on your promotion engine.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Stop being the bottleneck in your own business. Scaling requires you to let go.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Stage Five: The Discipline of Sustain\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The final stage is to \x3Cstrong>sustain\x3C/strong> your success. You have consistent leads, productized services, and a support team. This is not a short game; it is a long game. To do this work for a lifetime, you must protect your peace.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This means saying no, often, to clients who are a poor fit. It means not chasing the quick buck that leads to burnout. And it means making the most profound shift of all: you must multiply yourself.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Your role now elevates from creator to quality controller. Clients are no longer hiring you to physically do the work. They are hiring you for the standard of quality you represent. Your job is to document your creative process so clearly that new team members can execute it, and then you hold them to that standard.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This requires a radical mindset shift, which Do captures in a single, powerful sentence. \x3Cem>âGive the client the best work that they paid for, not the best work that you can do.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Over-delivering by giving a client more than they paid for is the fastest way to go bankrupt. A prime rib is a better cut of meat than a T-bone steak, but if the customer ordered the T-bone, giving them the prime rib is a business failure. Your obligation is to meet the standard of excellence you have established. Your team's work must hit that mark, and your role is to coach them, through art direction and thoughtful critique, to get there.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Eventually, you can hire an art director to take over this role, allowing you to move into true business leadership. This creates a path for growth for everyone on your team.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>To reach this level and go beyond, however, requires a new set of skills. The skills that got you to $100,000 are not the same skills that will get you to $500,000. Do is blunt about this reality: \x3Cem>âWhat got you here won't get you there.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The old skills came from repetition and pattern recognition. The new skills come from strategic thinking, finance, business design, and personal development. This is where outside help becomes essential. Do credits his own ability to scale his agency, Blind, from $2.2 million to $3.9 million a year to the insights of a business coach named Kier McLaren. The changes aren't always massive overhauls.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âIt's usually the small tweaks,â\x3C/em> Do reflects. \x3Cem>âSay this instead of that. Use this phrase. Change this one thing about how you're delivering or ask clients this one question before you get off the phone.â\x3C/em>
1 These small adjustments, often invisible to the person inside the business, can have an outsized impact on growth and bring the kind of insight many seek from building a strong \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-build-a-successful-personal-brand-in-2024-full-masterclass\">personal brand\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Think of the five stages as climbing a mountain. At the bottom, it is about endurance and repetition. In the middle, it is about structure and climbing smarter. At the top, it is about perspective and leading others.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>You do not have to leap from survival to sustain overnight. You just need to take the next step.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Getting to $100,000 is not about luck. It is about systems, clarity, and intention. One stage at a time.\x3C/p>",transcript:"Most designers never make it past survival mode. It's not because you're not talented. It's because someone has not shown you how to do this. And over the past 10 years, I've helped thousands of creators just like you to grow and scale their business to six figures. So, here's the truth. If you know what you're doing, making $100,000 a year becomes a reality. And it's up to you to make that decision. In this video, I'm going to go to the five stages so you know where you're at so that you can get to 100K. Stage one, survival. When you're in the survival stage, it's because you're saying yes to too many things and not enough no to the things that you're getting. You're probably doing some logo design, social media posts, flyers. Some are paid, some are free for the exposure that you might get. And it's a hot mess because the work isn't good. It's not consistent, and you're not working with great people and building long-term relationships. Money is unpredictable. You're exhausted, and you're questioning the value that you are able to provide to people. But this stage isn't failure. It's just a lack of awareness. I'm going to teach you what you need to know, the fundamentals that you need so that you can be a successful freelancer. And number one, you got to focus on the core technical skills. You can't expect anyone to teach you these things. Luckily for you, there's an abundant amount of resources available for free or very low cost. I'm going to tell you what they are right now. There's a couple people you want to follow on social media. They're going to teach you how to use the three core primary software that you need to know. Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, Inesign. Now, if you don't have access to those tools, don't sweat it. Find the free or lowcost alternative to those and you'll be just fine. But I'm an Adobe guy. I'm talk about what I know. There's a couple of people who produce excellent highquality videos on this and you can find them on YouTube on Instagram. That is my buddy Paul. He goes by OG Zit Ze T. You should follow Type Design class picks imperfect. There's Chad Casses who does a lot of AI workflows in conjunction with Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. It's a powerful combination. He's the next generation of how we're going to be using these tools. And last but not least, hey Adam Design. That's just a list a handful of creators. Once you follow them and you follow the people that other people follow, you're going to get an abundant amount of resources and you're going to be able to learn and level up your game. This is critical that you learn the software and learn not just one way of doing, but multiple ways of doing something and learn the very best way to do something so you're not fussing around on the computer. Okay. So, next you have the technical skills, but now you need to learn conceptual design skills. This is where I'm going to emphasize if you're a creative, if you're a designer, you need to learn typography. And there's several ways that you can do this. I'm going to recommend some books that you must read. And when I say you need to read, some books you need to look at the visuals, but others you actually have to read the principles to understand what's going on. Here's my list of books. Stop stealing sheet by Eric Spieman. Typography, Form and Communication by Philip Megs and Rob Carter. The next book is The Pioneer of Swiss Graphic Design featuring the work of Joseph Mueller Brockman. Amazing work that you need to study and emulate that work for a period of time until you figure out what's happening. The next two books I highly recommend is The Geometry of Design by Kimberly Elam. It shows you grid systems and how to use grids so that you understand what's working underneath all that design stuff that you admire. The last but not least book is a book called A Smile in the Mind, which teaches you conceptual design, communication design. Read those books cover to cover. Read it multiple times until you start to understand the principles. I'm also going to make a soft plug here for my own typography course because so many people have taken it. Thousands of people over the years and I've seen them go from zero to hero with type. We'll include the links in the description below. It's typography design one. The goal of this stage is just to get good with the fundamentals that you know the craft. I'm assuming because you're watching this video, you're mostly self-taught or maybe you've got a liberal arts degree and some kind of design program that isn't really the thing that's going to teach you how to be good. If you can just get good with these technical skills and learn some of the principles of design, you're going to be much more viable in the marketplace, much easier to hire, and you'll command a higher day rate. So before anyone is going to hire you, you need to demonstrate that you could do this. They need to see some kind of proof. So while you're learning design and typography, you're going to create a lot of artifacts. So in the beginning, if you're literally copying and tracing things, that's totally fine. But you cannot exhibit that work as original work. You can clarify that I'm merely tracing this and literally show the before, meaning the thing that you're working on, and try to emulate this. I remember back in design school, what I would do is pick up a book on Swiss design, put over a piece of tissue paper, and literally draw with a ruler and pen what's happening on that page until I started to get a feel for proportions, spacing, and contrast. That's what I highly recommend you do. Now, you can film all this stuff if you want and start to develop some content for social media. And for a lot of people, they're going to really enjoy watching the creative process. You'll initially first attract other designers on their creative journey, but eventually if you do this consistent enough and it's well produced, you'll start to catch the eye of art directors and designers who can see you developing and growing and they're going to keep you in their mind so that when you ultimately reach out, you're not going to be reaching out as a cold stranger. I can't emphasize enough for you to slow down in this process in this stage and just really enjoy it. It's the work that very few people do and they skip this process and then they wind up struggling for the rest of their creative careers. So if you can really understand what the masters have done and figure it out for decades and you know it's going to work because the work that you look at is going to be fresh. It's going to look new but it's created decades ago and potentially even decades before you were even born. So we want to learn these timeless principles of design that's going to withstand the test of time. We don't want to be chasing trends here. We want to follow what the masters have already figured out. Eventually, what's going to happen here is you're going to start to experiment. Once that foundational layer has been built, you're going to start to do things on your own. This is a great time to start showing some of this work on social media. So, in this stage, you'll combine the work that you're copying with other influences to create a hybrid new thing. This is wonderful because you can bring in y
1our own culture, your your other influences, and develop your own visual language. If you do this consistently enough, you'll start to build up a body of work. Now, everyone always asks me the same question. How many pieces do you need in order to go get meaningful work? And the answer is going to surprise you. It's not 50. It's not 20. It's not even 10. It's somewhere between 3 to five pieces that show a consistent level of thinking and aesthetic. Now, I'm going to highly encourage you to edit out everything that doesn't fit within this criteria. Because when we look at work and we see something bad or not well thought out, we assume that this will be the thing that you deliver to us. And so rather than showing more, rather than showing a diversity of skills that you may or may not have, focus in on showing three to five pieces of work that demonstrate a core competency. Now, if you're fortunate enough to go to a really good design program like I did, you will have learned this in school. It's what you pay a lot of money for. But I don't want you to panic because you're going to sit there and think, \"Chris, I don't have access to that.\" Of course, it's easy for you to say. Here's a story for you. My younger brother, who is a working professional visual effects artist, learned typography from me. Basically, I'm telling you to do the exact same things I told him to do. And should you be so inspired to take my typography course, it's literally the thing that I use to learn how to design with type that I have taught thousands of people, including my younger brother. So once he learned how to to to manipulate type on a screen, it taught him a lot of other principles about design, composition, scale contrast repetition consonants and dissonance that he was unable to apply for the rest of his career. And now he's been a working freelancer for over 25 years. In stage two, you're going to work towards stability. Now, the thing that's preventing you from doing what it is that you need to do is because you're stretched too thin. You're probably managing a regular job. Maybe you have other responsibilities and you need to dedicate more time to learning your craft. The only way I know how to do this is to say no to supposed opportunities. Okay, you're chasing too many things. You're feeling burnt out and you're not really making any money anyway. So, why even do this? You're only delaying the learning process. So, you have to zero in on what is referred to as an ICP, an ideal client profile. Now, it may hurt your soul to hear this, but you really have to think about who am I serving and what is it that I do that gets them excited about hiring someone like me. When you try to aim for too much, it becomes really hard to focus. We don't understand their pain points and challenges and every single thing that they ask you to do is a new thing for you to learn every single time. That will erode your confidence. It doesn't allow you to build strong skills. And this is the thing that hurts most people that are transitioning out of the survival stage into the stability stage. Here's what I'm going to tell you to do. Pick a handful of people. Figure out what's in common with them and follow them and make sure that you subscribe to everything they do. They make a podcast. They have the newsletter. Just as much as possible, follow these five people. And you can do five per month. I think that's a reasonable amount of people for you to follow. And you follow people all over the internet anyways. This won't hurt you. But you may want to start to unfollow other people so that when these people post something, it's important that you respond and be one of the earliest responders. So the window is roughly the first 15 minutes. And think about it, when someone posts something, and if it's a smaller company, when they post something, they're they just literally hit send or upload, they're going to hang around for a few minutes. And if you have the notification turned on for them and you interact with them over time, they're going to start to recognize, hey, Bob or Mary or Jane consistently show up asking thoughtful questions or contributing to the dialogue. And if you reshare and repost our content, they're going to feel like, gosh, this person's really excited about what we do and they're really trying to be helpful. So, if you do this over a consistent period of time, hopefully you're going to start to stick out in their mind. And this is going to lead you to the opportunity of reaching out to them and doing some outbound cold outreach or hopefully, in this case, semi-lukewarm outreach. Now, I'm going to tell you what you need to do when you reach out. Please, please, please do not do what 99% of the people out on the internet do to me all the time because what you'll get from somebody like me is an immediate delete and block and that kills the opportunity. After you've developed some kind of rapport over a period of time, I recommend at least 30 days of interacting with someone so that you have a chance to get to know each other a little bit better. Slip into their DM. And what I would do is I would wait to slip into their DM until they respond or comment on something that you've done. Now you know they see you. So you can slip into their DM and say something like this. And I I am a big proponent of full transparency, keeping messages short, but being really courteous. Here's how I would do it. Hey Bob, I really admire your company's work. I've been following you for a number of years or months. And if there's ever an opportunity where you have overflow work that you can't do inhouse, I'd love the opportunity to help you out. It's important for me to work with people like you and I'm willing to work on a trial basis for whatever dollar amount that you think is fair. Please give me an opportunity. Here's a link to my work. Let me know if there's a good fit here. Something to that effect. Now, I just freestyled that. Write your own version, but get to the core of the message. Make sure it's genuine. And if you don't follow them, that's a really poor sign that you're a fan cuz clearly you're not a fan cuz you don't even follow them. If you do this consistently enough and you if you're following my exact method here, every once in a while you're going to peique the curiosity of the other person. But I would not get discouraged if you reach out a couple times or you reach out and you don't hear response. Sometimes they're bur
1ied in emails and DMs. Reach out again, but don't be annoying about this. Try to send them another message, but don't be annoying about it. Say something like, \"Hey, I just want to make sure this is floating back to the top. I'm still very interested and keen in working with you. In fact, if you don't have any work opportunities, I'd love to take 15 minutes of your time to get a review of some of the work that I'm doing. If that's a possibility, please let me know. And then you got to let some time pass. And if you don't still hear back from them, just chill out for a while. Don't hit them with another message cuz they're going to feel like, man, this is super aggressive and it's very spammy. Treat people the way you want to be treated. That's generally a good rule of thumb to follow. Okay? So, if you don't like people pestering you in the DMs, getting super aggressive, don't do that to other people. So, in stage one, you're really just trying to develop skill sets and to have some documentation or proof you know what you're doing. There's a good chance you're doing all kinds of different design things that may have zero application to the target audience you want to work with, and that's totally okay. So, we're going to develop our portfolio in two ways. Number one, on social media, which you can share a lot of process behind the scenes and just a lot of different things because this is what interests you right now. you're passionate about a lot of different things, go ahead and post that. That's fine. But the part that's kind of really important here is that you start to build a website that has three to five case studies of the work that you want to do for clients that would be joyful to give you money to help them with. This is really important. So if you want to work with biotech companies, the portfolio project should look like biotech companies. If you want to work in consumer packaged goods, CPG, or you want to work in retail, whatever space that sector you want to work in, it's really good when someone who's in that space looks at your portfolio like, \"Wow, we could have used this on our last campaign.\" That's what you want to do. It's a matching of two things, right? Uh like if you just think about it and we're talking about matchmaking, think about like how men and women meet each other. Somebody's like really interested in tall people and you're not a tall person. Well, that's not going to work out. somebody is really into outdoor stuff and you're really more of a couch potato cinema geeky nerd person, that's not gonna work out either. In business, it works a lot like that. We don't want to take a big risk when we hire someone thinking, will they get this or won't they? We want a sure thing. We want to know that my god, if this person could only help me with this edit or with this designer, this poster, this campaign, we would go to the next level. You want to close the imagination gap. You don't want to make them work that hard to figure out how the heck is this person going to help me. When you do that, you're requiring too much of their cognitive processing power and they're just going to move on to the next person that shows up who's closer to what they want than you are. So, this is where you need to really edit and curate and be judicious with what you include and don't include. It only takes three to five case studies. And I'm tell you how to do this. Now, a case study isn't just your work. A case study includes words and images that tell a story about the problem that you solved and how you came up with a solution. Generally speaking, it works something like this. Who's the client? Give us a little brief introduction to who the client is. My client's a family business, family-owned business for three generations. They live in Italy and and they they sell pasta. Let's just say what that is. Okay. Number two, identify the problem. The problem was they needed packaging that reflected their values that was inconsistent across different touch points and that was the problem you identified with your client. Next, you want to show process, your ideational stuff, the stuff that you work through to arrive at an ultimate design. If you just show the design, people are a little confused as to how you work and what it's like to work with you. very important as you're working to save the work and to document as you go because it's much harder to recreate this work later. What do I mean by that? If you're working on a logo sketch on the computer, you might have one file where you overwrite every single iteration of it. That's going to make it really difficult for you to have documentation. So, what you should do is just copy, drag over, and paste and work on the next version. And this way, you have little artifacts of all the different things you've tried. One key thing here when I look at process, I want to see a breath of exploration. I don't want to just see little variations to one design. I want to see that you tried this thing and this thing over here and a couple things in between and logically you figured out that these two or three things are the best options and you whittle it down. That's usually the design process that most professionals go through. And then you want to show the finished thing that you designed, including mock-ups and examples. And do not underestimate the value and power of mock-ups. They allow us to see design in multi-dimensional ways so that we can see it in large scale or we can see it small like on a business card. We can see on social media, we can see it on somebody's hat. And this allows us to feel like this was a real project and that it's something we can get really excited about. When you do this in conjunction with your social media stuff, these things talk to each other. So in your bio on social you can say here's a link to my portfolio. So you excite people about what you do and you specifically drive them to a certain type of work such that they feel my gosh if this person helped us our project would go so much smoother and better. Somebody get this person on the phone. We want to talk to them. When you master this it'll help you get to the next stage. So in this stage is important you'll be able to get work. And if you want to make $100,000 a year, which is the target what we're looking at here, is on average you need to build about $500 a day for about 10 months. That'll get you to your $100,000 goal. And you want to focus on doing design work probably for markets that can afford you. At least here in the United States, it's on the coast. We're talking about San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, and down to Miami. Something on the coast. They tend to have better budgets. companies that are used to working with people who have a higher cost of living. And this is where arbitrage can work really well in y
1our favor. So if you're from a small country, if you're from a little island, or if you're from middle of the country of the US, cost of living is much lower. You don't have to charge the local rate because the people are buying this stuff already expecting to pay this kind of price. Now, I know what you're thinking. But Chris, they called us cuz they wanted a better deal. I'm in South America. I'm in Asia. I'm in Thailand. Wherever I'm at, they want a better deal. This is where you need to learn to act to to walk and to present like a professional on these coastal cities that we're talking about. If your work is at that caliber and the language is clear and your process is super clear, I would just not accept it at that point. So, the reason why people call people in those markets, they're they're looking for a bargain. They're looking to exploit the fact that there's a low minimum wage where you live and they want to pay you less. But if you present like everyone else, they will be forced to hire you and pay you that rate because you're that good. That's the goal here. So, you've done everything that I've talked about. You've generated some leads and every once in a while, someone reaches out and they feel like they're a qualified prospect for you to talk to. What do I mean qualified? It means they have a real project with a real budget and a timeline that's reasonable for something that you do. Once you get on the phone, you're going to have to be able to assess their needs to determine fit. This is what we call sales. And if you can sort that out and they feel super excited to hire you, I'm going to recommend you do a couple things here. You need to tell them what it's going to cost on the call. For a lot of you, you're going to be scared to do this. But if you don't do this and you kick this down the road in a proposal, you're going to be in the proposal building business, not in the design business. So if you're thinking, I'm $500 a day, just say that upfront. If you're going to give them a project rate, say that project rate just up front. Be super clear. And what you want to do is you want to gauge their reaction to the price. And if they hem and haw about the project rate, you need to ask them, I feel or sense some hesitation on your part. What do we think? And then they'll tell you the budget. They sometimes will say lower. Every once in a while, they'll say, it should be much higher than this. We're prepared to pay more. We want to make sure you have all the resources to be able to do this project correctly. This is really good news for you. So, you're going to do everything you can in these kind of formative moments of your company or your business to get some real work under your belt. I would be very selective here, especially if you're not being paid very much, to pick projects that are going to be showcase pieces. There is absolutely no point, in my opinion, to do lowbudget work that also looks like ass. What are you getting out of that? A horrible client experience, no money, and a whole lot of resentment. So, make sure if you're going to do a project for little or no money that they have a couple things. Number one, the project is going to turn out great. Number two, it's exactly in the vertical or the industry that you want to work in or possibly number three, they're really great people and they're going to encourage you to do the very best work that you can do. And sometimes this might mean that you're actually freelancing from a bigger firm that have people working there that you really look up and admire and they can really help you make better work. So, those are the trade-offs. You don't always have to make money upfront if what you're getting is of greater value than the money you would have received. Let's fast forward to the next stage, which is now you're getting work and now you're going to have to say no more often to the projects that aren't good for you. The budget isn't right, the timeline is wrong, or you don't believe in the company or the person you're working with. This is where you have to exercise a lot of discipline and courage to say no. Because every time I know one door closes, another door opens, something else is going to come and
1you have to believe in that and manifest that into your life because otherwise you'll be constantly doing this busy work or what you'll do is you run face forward and smash your face into the wall of burnout. And this is what we're trying to avoid. At this point, you're going to want to focus in on very specific industries and types of clients you want to work with because you'll start to notice patterns. When you notice these patterns, you're going to be able to develop processes and systems to account for what's going to happen. Nothing feels more like confidence than when you speak to a vendor and they have seen everything before. And you can't achieve that if you're constantly switching verticals and doing different services for people. Over time, what I want you to do is I want you to develop a five-step process. What are the five things that every project goes through that you can identify into a clear stage? Typically, it's discovery, like trying to figure out what the problem is. Perhaps there's design exploration, final design, and then applications, and then quality assurance, QA. It's something like that. You can develop your own five-step process, and then you can document this and write about it on your website. So, everyone who's interested in working with you, every prospect can look at this and say, \"Wow, they really have a clear five-point process.\" And you can explain to people, should they be so curious? How does this work, Chris? And you can say, \"All our clients go through a five-step process. It's how we can ensure the work always turns out good. Are you good with me following this five-step process?\" They should say yes. If they say no, you can say, \"Great. Well, we can do it your way, but I can no longer guarantee the outcomes. If you're okay with that, I'm okay with that.\" Just remember this one idea. Clients do not choose the best option. They choose the least risky one. Your job is to appear to bring them the least amount of risk, the lowest risk. I know what you're thinking. You're going to say, \"But Chris, I like to do a lot of different things. It keeps me fresh. It keeps me vibrant.\" And to that, I say, \"You can choose whatever path you want to go down, friend. If it works out for you, congratulations.\" But as we've seen in many things in life, whenever we want to hire someone and pay them a lot of money, we want the very best. We don't want the second best. We don't want the third best. We don't want someone who's working on this part-time. anything that's critical, anything that's of real value, we generally seek the best that we can afford. So, by prolonging this process of being good at lots of things and never great at any one thing, you're only going to hurt yourself. And I'll tell you from personal experience, when we first started my production company called Blind in 1995, I did what you did. I did logo design for somebody who would pay me for that. We would do broadcast design. We would do main titles. I would do a little web design. All of these things we did for anyone who would pay us. And it became very apparent to me really early on within months of doing this that outside of my core skill set, which was logo design, everything that came in, I was an amateur. I was struggling to figure things out. And I knew there was a pretty big gap between where I was and the work that I was seeing and the work that I looked up to. So much in fact, that one of our clients sent one of their senior animators to babysit the project cuz they weren't sure we could pull it off. And I knew then and there if I'm not going to drill in and be focused on one thing, I'm never going to be really great at anything. And luckily then, I decided I'm going to pursue motion design as my core focus. I got rid of everything else. Now, those skills still live with me, but I didn't market those. I didn't accept those projects until I got really good and well known for doing motion design. Ironically, 20 years later, a client came to us and said, \"We know you're great at motion design. do you know anything about print and logo design? And to that I smiled. This is what I know how to do really well. So that's how committed I was. And this allowed me to grow from doing tens of thousands of dollars for a project to hundreds of thousands and even up to million dollars for a project. This is the reward of you being a specialist and being really good at something. So the goal here is if you're repeatedly exp
1osed to the same problem as you spot patterns, that's what intelligence is. It's pattern recognition. And when you see patterns, this equals leverage. And leverage equals power and money and value and everything else that you desire. So once you have this kind of leverage, you're able to command a higher price and shift away from selling your time to selling outcomes or deliverables. So we want to stop exchanging our time for money. That's very hard to get ahead because you're always going to be limited by how many hours you can work. And that will lead us to the next stage. Okay. In the previous stages, we focus on developing core competency, technical skill, creative skills, and getting your first couple of clients. As you've been able to master those stages, we have to figure out how to build systems. And we're now transitioning away from being a freelancer, selling our time for money, and moving into deliverables or outcomebased project fees. This is really critical. Now, one other thing I need to mention here in this video is to tell you that you need to do something that can be done offsite because any of these skills that you do on-site does not allow you to grow your practice because they'll still see you as labor and labor is measured against time. So, if you're able to do your work at home at your own studio using your own equipment, you are now afforded a lot of luxuries. Meaning you can set your own hours. You can employ other people to help you. And you can use any tools and software that you want to make your work process faster. And that's the general goal. We don't want to work longer and harder unnecessarily. We want to work smarter and faster. So the problem with hourly base building or day rates is that it punishes you for being efficient. It disincentivizes you to invest in equipment, processes, plugins, and everything else that you need to make your work work faster. Now, at the end of the day, you need to know this. When you price based on hour, you create a lot of anxiety in the buyer's mind. And you've all been here before. How long will this take? What will this cost? And the answer is, I don't know. I can only give you a best guess. So, what we do is we remove the anxiety about the unknown by giving them a flat project fee. Lots of ways to figure this thing out, but I'm going to tell you how to do it really simply. When you give the clients a project fee, they know it's not going to exceed that price unless they change the scope or make too many revisions. So, this is where you start to develop real skills around sales, bidding, and estimating, and invoicing. Those are three key skills that now you need to develop that you didn't need in the previous stages. So, now we have to build systems for that. So, I'm going to give you one quick tip here to seem more professional. When you're sending out an invoice, don't start the invoice at number 001. It literally is the first invoice you've ever sent. And when a client receives this, they're going to smile and say, \"Oh, yeah. This person has not been in business very long.\" I highly recommend you start the invoice at number 00201. Even though it's your very first invoice that you've sent out, it will appear as if this is invoice number 201. This creates a little bit more confidence. And I know these are all optics, but perception is reality here. So, how do you figure out a project fee? Now, if we get back to the goal of you doing $100,000 a year, roughly, you need to do $10,000 per month, assuming that we're going to work for 10 months because there are down days and you need to take time off so you don't burn out. If we divide $10,000 by what we think is an average reasonable amount of work to do, about four projects per month, every project must be at least at minimum $2,500 because 2500 * 4 is guess what? $10,000. Now, if you should charge more for a project, that means the other projects don't have to cost as much, don't have to be priced as high. And so once you get locked in on this number, and I do want you to lock in here, is because when a client says, \"I have $1,500. I have $1,800.\" Whatever they say, you're going to smile. You're going to stay really cool, and you're going to look back at them very stoically and say, \"My minimum project fee is $2,500. It's policy. Is there a way that we can figure out to give you what you want and that you're able to meet my minimum? Otherwise, I can't take you on as a client. You don't have to get into value based pricing. You don't even have to have a value conversation. You just tell them in order for me to do this. And you have lots of options to choose from. And I'm even telling you it's worth it. I'm going to need $2,500 at minimum to do this for you. And you have to stick to your gun. Now, in the reality of it all, $2,500 might sound like a lot for you, but in the buyer's mind, if they have a bigger problem to solve, and this has been a big challenge or headache for them, $2,500 is easy cost for medicine to make a problem go away. So in this stage, you're getting some consistent workflow, but you have no systems. So it's a lot of chaos. Nothing seems the same, and it's a lot of extra work for you and potentially work for your clients. So you need to really develop systems and structure so that this can run on rails. I know this might sound really overwhelming for some of you, but it's actually really good news. So when you have more demand than the capacity to do the work, this is a great opportunity for you to raise your prices. The market is literally telling you, we want more of you and there's not more of you to give. So, the only way you can control demand is to by raising the prices. And I know it's really uncomfortable for you to think about that, but in my own life, every time I raise my speaking rates, it does slow down a little bit. And that's the whole point. But eventually, it picks back up. And then now you're doing the same amount of volume at a much higher price. And look, if it were me, I'd rather work half as much, charge twice as much while I'm making the exact same amount of money. That makes sense, right? So instead of working so many hours at $500 a day, charge double and work half the hours. You'll make the exact same amount of money and you'll save something left for yourself so that you can work on your process and you can do personal development. You can learn more. You can read books. You can attend webinars and go to
1networking events. Then you can go to conferences and just learn from other great people. So the goal of the system stage is to take the chaos that you experience and to productize your services. So this is about creating packages and pricing to automate your workflow so that everything is automated and works and delivers on time. You're removing a lot of the guesswork for both you and your customer. You start treating your creative work as an offer and not just output. And here's where you start seeing consistent $5 to $8,000 months. And if you're not here right now, relax. You're closer than you think. you're just missing some leverage. So, here's how you're going to take what is a chaotic and bespoke process and to productize it. You're going to design the customer journey. And you can do this on a clean piece of paper and just lay it out. And you can say birth to delivery, right? From the minute in which somebody reaches out to you, what has to happen in order for you to do the work. So, at some point, you can map this out and it's going to include things like um a client onboarding documentation. You probably need to set up file structures for the specific client. For me, it's like probably Dropbox. You might have a Trello board where they're able to manage and watch the trafficking of items. I highly recommend Trello as a project management tool. Perhaps there's a calendar set up with clear milestones that they need to see. And you probably have a spec sheet of things that they need to deliver and what you ultimately plan on delivering back to them so that everyone's on the same page. So, as much as you can map out the customer journey process from beginning to delivery and make sure you have documentation, files, and templates already set up. If you design a lot of identity design and logo work, you probably have already a brand style guide template ready to go, which has a place for things like topography, colors, and usage guidelines. You don't want to be building these things from scratch. as much as possible. Spend the time necessary to develop the templates and it will be a lot of work upfront, but every time you use it, you're going to save so much time and energy, and you get to focus on what's really important for you. Other people like to include mockup templates, right? So, you can build mock-up templates for t-shirts, signage for merch, caps, signage for delivery trucks, packaging tape, those kinds of things. And you can set up beautiful templates and you can have a number of different options so not every project looks the same. So that when you are doing identity design, you can just plug those things in, output it really quickly and the clients will be blown away at how quickly you can put highle highquality work together. This also includes invoicing systems so that when you hit key milestones, you're building and if you've been watching this channel, you build 50% upfront, 25% when you hit a key milestone, and 25% upon delivery of the project net 14 days. So there's a couple different things that you can use to display your work. I'd highly recommend that you do it on all these things. You should use Adobe Behance, probably Dribble, and you could build your website. Some of the tools people recommend is Squarespace or Wix or some equivalent of that. I think Frame has even a tool that you can build a website and it doesn't need to be like crazy HTML coding. It just needs to be functional. It needs to load fast. It has to be super clear. I want to caution you a little bit. Although it might be tempting for you to get work through Upwork or Fiverr. I understand how Behance has an option now. Now there's a marketplace. The reason why I'm concerned about the first two, Fiverr and Upwork, is because people who generally visit those sites really want to pay the least amount of money, have very low standards, and really cannot appreciate good design. So if you're there, you're competing with a lot of people who are just going to be throwing up design work for as little money as possible. On Behance, I think it's a little bit different because there you have highly curated, beautiful design work and they're looking for the very best, I think, generally speaking. So, it's kind of like how I can be the same person, but if I'm going to a swap meet versus like a high-end retail store, my mindset is very different. I don't dare to even ask in a high-end retail place for a discount. I'm just either going to buy it or I'm not. But I almost feel the exact opposite when I'm at a swap meet that I want to negotiate because the whole game of it is they overpric so that you can negotiate and get the the price lower. You always feel like a jackass if you can't get it for less. So be careful where you present your work and where the clients come from because they have a very different mindset. Look, I'm old school or maybe I'm just old. Maybe I'm an old fool, not even an old school kind of person. I have a lot of bias against these kind of websites. And even if I don't have any professional work or paid work, I'd rather do work for friends or family or do spec projects on my own because it's ultimately going to represent the kind of design work that I can do. Because as I've said before, there's really n
1o point for you to do lowquality work for stupid clients and get paid nothing. I'd rather just stay at the wall and do nothing. But you don't obviously have to do nothing. You could develop your portfolio. You can develop spec projects and say, \"I want to do a redesign of a big brand that kind of missed the mark and do your own take on that.\" There's a person in particular, his name is Alan Peterson, and he does a lot of work like this. He's the logo fix guy and he uses his spare time to do hypothetical projects. None of that is real, but it generates so much interest and leads for him that they turn into real paying clients. I would prefer or recommend that you use your time this way. In stage four, we're starting to talk about scale and how do you scale your business. So, at this point, you are now consistently hitting $10,000 months. This is fantastic and you just want to be able to do this. And so the way that we're able to scale is we we know how hard it is to get a real client. It's much easier to go to that same client and get more work from them or to get referrals from them because the way the nature of the way people work is people like to hang out with people just like them. It's kind of how it works. So when your clients are saying thank you to you, our friend Phil M. Jones recommends asking for a referral right then and there. In the past, I've not been really good at this. I'm like a little sheepish about asking for referrals, but when they express genuine gratitude for the high quality work that you've done, you need to ask them right then and there. And they're most primed to help you in that moment. You'll probably say something like this. And if you want to know more about it, read about it in Exactly what to say by Phil M. Jones. And if you want to get a deeper dive on this, check out this other video. I'll put the link right here. You're going to say something like this. Can I ask you for a favor? And they're going to say yes, of course. and you can say, \"Do you know one person who is like you who would need something like what I've been able to do?\" Don't worry, I'm not going to ask you for their name and contact information right now, but do you know one other person? And most likely, they're going to say yes. And you can say, \"Okay, so when you said yes, who are you thinking?\" And they'll say like Bob from blah blah blah. And then you ask for another favor. You said, \"Can I ask for one more favor? could you reach out to Bob or Mary or whoever they say and let them know a little bit about me so that when I reach out I won't be a stranger to them and if it's okay I'd like to follow up with you in a week to see if this was done. Of course they're going to see yes and that's pretty much it. So this is how you're able to scale the kind of clients you like and get more of them. Either you get more from the same client or you get more from the clients that or other people that they know. In this stage, it's very important for you to get consistent lead flow. In this scale stage, I want you to stay focused on the three Ps. People, product, and promotion. People are the people who are going to support you in doing design, project management, and marketing. And for product, if you remember in the previous stages, this is where you need to build systems so that you can stay really organized and build templates and workflows around the things you do over and over again. and promotion. This is you developing systems so that your content creation games on point and you're being very consistent so that you can generate leads even while you sleep. Well, beware of this trap when things are going really well and you're getting good lead flow and you're converting your clients that you think things are gravy and you're going to be doing this work and money's flowing in. You're going to feel really great about yourself. Well, first of all, congratulations. But do not take your eye off on the need to create content because this is what fills the top of the funnel awareness. This is how we build awareness around what we do. If you slow this down, what inevitably will happen is the clients will dry up and you're going to have this long buildup time again to generate leads. And we can't just make it rain instantly. So be disciplined. Spend at least 10% of your energy and your resources focu
1sing on your marketing, content creation, editing, promotion. Make sure you do this consistently. The goal of this stage is to make sure that you have support that you can delegate the work so that you don't burn out. So, anything that you can delegate to other people, maybe it's production task or some of the design or sales or marketing efforts. Uh you can hire somebody to help you do this. Here's the simple rule of thumb. If you can pay someone less than what you charge to do, you should definitely find someone else to help you. So, in this stage, you're going to do your very best to protect the most valuable resource that you have that's nonrenewable, that's perishable, and that is called time. You can make more money, but you can't make more time. In order for us to consistently at $10,000 a month, assuming that we do four projects a month, and assuming that you can close 50% of the time, highly recommend that you need about 10 to 12 live leads every single month. So, when you have fewer leads than that, that's a sign that we're going to be in trouble, that you're going to have some down months, and we're trying to prevent that at this stage. Don't become the bottleneck of your own business. Stage five is sustain. You've been able to get consistent leads. You got a process that you develop. You productize your services. Things are going really well and you've even started to bring in a couple people to help you. What you have to realize, this is not a short game. This is a long game. Because if you love design like the way I love it, you want to do it until the wheels fall off the wagon. The only way you can do that is you must protect your piece. And the way that you're able to protect your piece is you have to be really clear about who you love to work with. And you have to say no often to the clients that are poor fits and and not chase after the quick fix, the quick buck because that's going to ultimately lead you to burn out. And the biggest other thing that you're going to do here that's going to help you catapult beyond the $100,000 a year into the 2 three 4 $500,000 a year is you multiply yourself. So in this stage, you want to be able to really clearly document your creative process so that new team members coming in can do the work the way that you do it. And you're going to elevate yourself to the person who's like the quality control person. So when clients hire you, they aren't literally hiring you to physically do all the work yourself. They're hiring you because of the standards of quality that you're able to deliver. So your job here is to maintain those standards. We can fall into this trap where we overd deliver, where we feel like we have to get our hands into everything and put our thumb printint on the work. Otherwise, we don't feel good about ourselves. I want you to think of it differently. Give the client the best work that they paid for, not the best work that you can do. That's a big difference. Okay? I'm going to say that one more time. Your obligation is to give the clients the best work that they paid for and not the best work that you can do. So, imagine you are in a restaurant and you order the T-bone steak and they bring out the prime rib or they bring out the flameon. Those are much more expensive cuts. Clearly, that's the best steak that they can make, but that's not the steak you paid for and that's the fastest way for you to burn out and go bankrupt. How do we do this? So, we have a standards of excellence, a quality of work. That's the minimum that we must deliver by otherwise you'll start to lose clients. So when your team does work at a certain level, what you do is you coach them up to hit that mark and you do this through art direction by being thoughtful with your feedback and critique so that they learn over time. These are the standards which we must deliver. What I would also include here are little checks and balances so that everything passed a quality control check. oftentimes, if possible, as as you're making more money, you would hire an art director to replace the job that you used to do. And the art director is generally the most senior qualified designer who works for you already, who has the potential to get into management and can now pass on the skills that you taught them hopefully. And what they'll do is they'll elevate everyone else underneath them. It gives them room to grow upwards into management. And this is the way that you build a team and a company around a process of continued growth and development. Inevitably, no matter how good you are, you're only going to be able to grow the company a certain level until you acquire new skills. And the new skills don't come from where the old skills came from. The old skills come from you repeatedly doing the same thing and seeing patterns and getting really efficie
1nt and good at doing that. The new skills come in things like personal development strategy business coaching, those kinds of things. So there's that expression and it perfectly encapsulates this idea. What got you here won't get you there. This is the mistake that a lot of people make. They think, well, I got so far by doing this. If I just repeat that or do twice as much, I will then generate twice as much revenue. What you don't realize is to play at the next level requires a different skill set and you are not playing in the majors, you are playing in the minors and it's a very different skill gap that you need to acquire. This is where I think you'll benefit from business training, communications training, strategic thinking, and probably learning how to be more innovative with not just the design work, but business design. This is where I personally benefited from because I was able to take my company at that time, a couple years in, from about $2.2 million a year to $3.9 million a year. The way I was able to achieve that was to bring in a business coach. And that business coach, his name is Kier McLaren. He taught me some very small tweaks that I was able to do that had the biggest impact. This is a common myth that a lot of people have that business coaching requires you to change everything that you do. Maybe some of it does. I've not personally experienced that myself as someone who's been coached and someone who coaches lots of people. It's usually the small tweaks. Say this instead of that. Use this phrase. Use this idea. Change this one thing about how you're delivering or ask clients this one question before you get off the phone. It's little things like that that make the biggest difference. If you've found this video series to be really helpful to you, imagine what would happen if you're able to work with me on a more intimate level behind a paid wall. This is what we do inside the future pro group. I help and coach entrepreneurs just like you from a lot of different disciplines how to level up their business to provide those exact same small tweaks that might be unnoticeable to you and that could take you from the level which you're at to the very next level. I'll provide the link in the description below. Think of these different stages as climbing a mountain and going from one level to the next requires a different kind of strength. At the bottom, it's about endurance and doing the reps. In the middle, it's about structure and learning how to climb smarter. At the top, it's all about perspective and leading others on the journey. You don't have to jump from survival to sustain overnight. You just need to take the next step. Let us know what stage you're at right now. Because getting to 100,000 isn't about luck. It's about systems, clarity, and intention, one stage at a time. If you found this video to be helpful, make sure you give us a like, drop a comment, and share this with one person you think would benefit from watching this. Yeah. Yeah.",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zys3dt503Q4",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zys3dt503Q4",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zys3dt503Q4/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:2817,duration_display:"46m",view_count:100124,published_at:"2026-03-10T17:00:50+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"If I Started Over as a Graphic Designer | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do outlines a five-stage framework for graphic designers to earn $100K a year. Learn the system to move from survival mode to a scaled business.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-03-14T19:42:08.601005+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:09.356047+00:00",faq:$R[144]=[$R[145]={answer:"The path to a six-figure income involves progressing through five stages: Survival, Stability, Systems, Scale, and Sustain. This framework, outlined by Chris Do, focuses on moving from foundational skill-building to creating a scalable business with systematized processes, strategic client acquisition, and eventually, team delegation.",question:"What is the career path for a graphic designer to earn six figures?"},$R[146]={answer:"First, you must build a strong, curated portfolio of 3-5 projects that speak to a specific Ideal Client Profile (ICP). Then, engage with your target clients on social media consistently for at least 30 days before sending a short, polite direct message offering to help with overflow work on a trial basis. The goal is to build a relationship before you ask for work.",question:"How can a freelance designer get their first high-value clients?"},$R[147]={answer:"Chris Do strongly advises charging a flat project fee instead of billing by the hour or day. Hourly billing punishes efficie
1ncy and creates anxiety for the client about the final cost. A project fee provides certainty for the client and allows you to price based on the value and outcome you deliver, not the time it takes.",question:"Should graphic designers charge hourly or a flat project fee?"},$R[148]={answer:"Scaling requires shifting your role from creator to leader and focusing on the 'Three Ps': People, Product, and Promotion. You must delegate tasks that can be done for less than your own rate, refine your productized service (your systems and templates), and maintain a consistent marketing effort to ensure a steady flow of leads. This frees you up to focus on high-level strategy and quality control.",question:"How do I scale my freelance design business beyond myself?"}],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:10018,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"graphic designer career path",secondary_keywords:$R[149]=["how to make 100k as a designer","graphic design salary","freelance graphic design","how to get design clients","scaling a design business"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[150]=[],og_title:"Graphic Design Career | 5 Stages to $100K | The Futur",og_description:"Chris Do reveals the exact five-stage path from survival mode to a six-figure graphic design career, including specific tools, books, and pricing strategies.",og_image:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zys3dt503Q4/maxresdefault.jpg",content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[151]={id:"c97778e3-131b-4987-b948-0a6f9e3c4578",video_id:"vFY6-sxcymg",title:"Speak Clearly, Gain Respect: The Confident Speaker's Framework",slug:"speak-clearly-gain-respect-confident-speaker-framework",topic_tag:"COMMUNICATION",secondary_tags:$R[152]=["PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT","MINDSET","CAREER GROWTH"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do and communications expert Jefferson Fischer reveal how to speak with confidence, command respect, and ensure your words reflect your true intent.",pull_quote:"People only experience you based on what comes out of your mouth.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[153]=[$R[154]={headline:"Control the timing of conversations.",explanation:"Never have a 100% conversation with only 10% of your energy. Proactively schedule difficult talks instead of letting them happen at the worst possible moments."},$R[155]={headline:"Make your breath the first word.",explanation:"Before you respond, take a deliberate breath. This pause regulates your emotions and signals to others that your answer is thoughtful and considered."},$R[156]={headline:"What you say is who you are.",explanation:"Your reputation is built entirely on the words you use. If you want to be seen as a kind, respected person, you must use kind and respectful language."},$R[157]={headline:"Prime the room, not the person.",explanation:"To create an open dialogue, establish rules for the space you're in, not for the individual. This makes expectations shared and disarms defensiveness."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>Your Words Are Your Legacy\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>People only experience you based on what comes out of your mouth. They will judge everything about you, from your intellect to your integrity, based on those tiny moments of interaction. This is the stark reality of communication, and itâs a problem Chris Do sought to solve for his audience in a recent podcast conversation with Jefferson Fischer, a fifth-generation trial attorney and communication expert who has amassed over seven million followers across social media by teaching people how to speak with clarity and confidence.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âWhat you say is who you are,â\x3C/em> Fischer states simply. Your words are not just sounds. They are the building blocks of your reputation, the currency of your relationships, and the tools with which you construct your reality. You say funny things, you are a funny person. You say kind things, you are a kind person. The reverse is also true.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Most people drift through conversations on autopilot, reacting instead of responding, stumbling into arguments and misunderstandings. They believe communication skill is an innate talent, a gift bestowed upon a lucky few. This is false. Confident communication is a learnable skill, a framework that can be studied and mastered.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Itâs not about finding the perfect script or adopting a fake persona. Itâs about understanding the deep connection between your inner state and your outward expression. It begins not with what you say, but when and how you say it.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Tyranny of Bad Timing\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The first rule of better communication is to control the environment. Bad conversations rarely happen because of the topic. They happen because of the timing. \x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Fischer warns against rushing conversations, comparing it to the cartoon quicksand of our childhood imagination. \x3Cem>âWhenever you find that you are being rushed in your conversation, bad things can happen,â\x3C/em> he says. This rush leads to assumptions, bad feelings, and unproductive arguments.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Weâve all been there. Your partner rolls over just as youâre drifting off to sleep and says, \x3Cem>âHey, so Iâve been thinking about this thing.â\x3C/em> A colleague catches you in the hallway and asks, \x3Cem>âDo you have five minutes?â\x3C/em> knowing full well it will be thirty. \x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Fischer has a potent diagnosis for this phenomenon. \x3Cstrong>We wait until we have 10% of our battery for 100% of a conversation.\x3C/strong> When your energy is depleted, you cannot engage thoughtfully. You are landing your mental airplane for the day, and someone is asking you to take off again. The result is almost always a crash.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Do admits to being guilty on both sides. He procrastinates on difficult conversations with his wife until the last possible second, creating unnecessary pressure. And heâs also been on the receiving end of a late-night talk when heâs completely exhausted. So, what is the solution?\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>If someone approaches you at a bad time, your instinct might be to snap, \x3Cem>âDo we really have to talk about this right now?â\x3C/em>
1 This is the worst possible response. It dismisses their feelings and makes them feel alone in their concern. Instead, Fischer advises you to make it enticing for them to postpone.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Frame the delay as a benefit to them and the conversation. You might say, \x3Cem>âIf we can have this tomorrow, Iâm going to be much more aware and focused. If I talk to you right now, I know Iâm not going to be my full self.â\x3C/em> No reasonable person will reject that offer. They donât want a depleted, unfocused version of you.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Another powerful tool is to state your own internal reality with clarity. Start with the phrase, \x3Cem>âI can tell.â\x3C/em> This forces self-awareness and communicates your state without blame.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>âI can tell I am way too tired for this right now.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>âI can tell Iâm not prepared for this conversation.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cem>âI can tell Iâm feeling off and wonât be able to give this the attention it deserves.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>On the flip side, if you are the one who needs to initiate a difficult conversation, you must not ambush the other person. You have been mulling this over all day; they are hearing about it for the first time. The responsible approach is to schedule it.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>It may feel inorganic, but as Do notes, we schedule everything else in our lives. Why not the most important conversations? Fischer suggests checking the other personâs capacity. \x3Cem>âWhatâs your capacity for a conversation about what we have coming up next week?â\x3C/em> Or more simply, \x3Cem>âHey, at some point I need to talk with you about the kidsâ schedule. When is best to do that?â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This simple act of asking for permission respects their time and energy, setting the stage for a productive dialogue instead of a defensive battle.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Power of the Pause\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>When Do asks Fischer his opening question, he observes something critical. Fischer pauses. He takes a moment to think before he speaks. This is not dead air; it is a sign of immense control and confidence. Many people, especially verbal processors, feel an anxious need to fill the silence immediately. They vomit out their ideas, hoping to find a coherent thought along the way.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>A confident communicator does the opposite. They walk, they donât run, in conversation. Fischerâs method is simple and profound. \x3Cstrong>Make your breath the first word that you say.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This single, deliberate breath does two things simultaneously. First, it regulates your body, calms your nervous system, and keeps you in control of your emotions. Second, it signals to the other person that you have heard them and are giving their question genuine consideration. It elevates the perceived value of your response before youâve even uttered a word.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Imagine the difference. Someone asks how your day was.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Rushed Response:\x3C/strong> \x3Cem>âIt was good. It was good, Chris. It was fine. It was a good day.â\x3C/em> The words are there, but they feel hollow, reflexive, and dismissive.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>The Considered Response:\x3C/strong> (Pause. Breath.) \x3Cem>âYou know, Chris, it was good. It was a good day. Ups and downs, but it was good.â\x3C/em> The same essential message, but the delivery lends it weight and sincerity.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>This technique is a cornerstone of high-stakes communication, especially in job interviews or legal settings. \x3Cem>âThe slower you answer the question, the better the interview will be,â\x3C/em> Fischer insists. Answering too quickly signals anxiety. Taking a beat exudes composure. It shows that you can handle pressure, that you are in command of yourself and the situation. This principle is a key part of learning \x3Ca href=\"/watch/how-to-ask-better-questions-art-of-listening-communication\">how to listen effectively\x3C/a> and respond with intent.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Fischer recalls teaching this to clients preparing for a deposition. He would tell them to silently count \x3Cem>âone Mississippiâ\x3C/em> in their head before answering any question. Itâs a simple mechanical trick to break the ingrained habit of immediate reaction. It places you, not the questioner, in control of the timeline.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This sense of calm was modeled for him his entire life. As a fifth-generation trial attorney, he was raised on the Socratic method, a form of dialogue that uses questioning to stimulate critical thinking. If he came to his father with a problem, his dad would respond with a slow, measured tone, \x3Cem>âYep, thatâs a problem.â\x3C/em> Even if Fischer was frantic, his father would simply take a beat and say, \x3Cem>âYep, I guess theyâll be upset.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This composure is contagious. By slowing down your words and lowering your volume, you fund
1amentally change the energy of an interaction. You project authority and balance. Compare the aggressive, \x3Cem>âLook, Chris, I already told you Iâm not going to do that!â\x3C/em> with the calm, quiet, \x3Cem>âChris, I already told you Iâm not going to do that.â\x3C/em> The second person is the one you donât want to mess with. They are less emotional, more grounded, and infinitely more powerful.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Forging Composure Under Pressure\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Knowing the principle is one thing. Applying it under fire is another. Do presses Fischer on what happens when a client, despite all the training, gets on the stand and loses their composure.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>It happens all the time. Fischer shares a story about a client in a deposition who, despite being prepped, began anxiously stepping on the opposing attorneyâs questions. He was answering before the questions were even finished. This creates a messy legal record and signals weakness.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Fischerâs response is a masterclass in redirection. He didnât pull the client out and scold him. Yelling \x3Cem>âStop stepping on the question!â\x3C/em> would only amplify the clientâs anxiety. Instead, he called for a five-minute break and executed a brilliant reset maneuver.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Here is his process:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Break the State:\x3C/strong> He got the client out of the tense deposition room. \x3Cem>âHey, just walk with me,â\x3C/em> he said, acting nonchalant while unwrapping a peppermint. The simple physical action of walking and the casual offer of a mint began to break the pattern of stress.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Change the Context:\x3C/strong> He sat the client down and asked a completely unrelated, low-stakes question. \x3Cem>âSo, um, how old are your kids again?â\x3C/em> This shifted the clientâs focus away from the source of his anxiety.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Model the Desired Pace:\x3C/strong> Fischer continued with easy, conversational questions about a movie the client saw with his kids. \x3Cem>âWas it good?â\x3C/em> Forced to recall a pleasant memory, the client naturally slowed down, his breathing changed, and his tone became more relaxed.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Make the Connection:\x3C/strong> Once the client was calm and speaking at a normal pace, Fischer made the link. \x3Cem>âGood. All right. You see what weâre doing here?â\x3C/em> The client immediately understood. \x3Cem>âAh, Iâm stepping on it, arenât I?â\x3C/em> Fischer confirmed, \x3Cem>âYep, thatâs exactly what youâre doing. Letâs go back and treat it just like youâre talking to me right here.â\x3C/em>\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>The client had to feel the calm state in his own body to understand it. Fischer didnât just tell him what to do; he guided him back into the right state of being. He calls this getting the client âin the pocket.â This approach is far more effective than intellectual instruction, a lesson that applies far beyond the courtroom, particularly in high-pressure situations like \x3Ca href=\"/watch/sales-training-close-more-deals-in-your-sales-call\">sales calls\x3C/a> or negotiations.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This is the core of masterful coaching. You donât just correct the behavior. You change the state from which the behavior originates.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Authenticity Imperative\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>Is there a universal style of communication? Fischer argues that, while context matters, your baseline should be the way you talk to a good friend. You should strive to make everyone feel comfortable around you, whether youâre giving a keynote speech or being grilled in a deposition. The best compliment a public speaker can receive is, \x3Cem>âYou seem so comfortable up there.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This comfort comes from having nothing to prove. When you are genuinely excited to share your message for the benefit of others, you can be generous with your words. But the moment you start performing, people know. Juries know. Audiences know. We have a highly-tuned sixth sense for authenticity.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI canât tell you how many times Iâve seen a jury totally turn on somebodyâs case if they thought that they were being somebody that theyâre not,â\x3C/em> Fischer cautions. This ability to sniff out fakeness seems to be part of our primal survival instinct. Something just doesnât smell right.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Fischer identifies several red flags of inauthenticity:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Over-Complimenting:\x3C/strong> Gushing praise that feels disproportionate and superficial. Itâs an attempt to buy connection, but it feels hollow.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Name-Dropping:\x3C/strong> People who feel the need to mention their proximity to powerful or famous individuals are signaling their own insecurity. They are trying to borrow status instead of owning their own.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Needing the Last Word:\x3C/strong> In meetings, the person who always has to add their two cents is often the one furthest from the actual decision-making. They mistake talking time for value.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>Do relates this to his experience with âalpha brosâ who puff up their chests at social gatherings. He sees through the bravado to the insecure junior high kid underneath, the one who was never at the cool table. The more they try to prove their worth, the more distasteful it becomes. Fischerâs advice for handling these situations is filled with grace. \x3Cem>âJust be impressed,â\x3C/em> he suggests. Instead of outdoing them or dismissing them, see the insecure child and offer genuine validation. A simple, heartfelt, \x3Cem>âWow, thatâs awesome, man. Congratulations,â\x3C/em> can disarm the posturing and create a real connection. This is a core tenet of building an authentic \x3Ca href=\"/watch/what-successful-personal-brands-do-differently\">
1personal brand\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The root of authentic communication lies in a simple, dirty secret that Do shares from his own sales experience. When asked how he projects so much that he cares, he replies, \x3Cem>âIâll tell you right now, I actually care.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>Your thoughts betray you. If your true intention is to extract money from someone, no communication tactic can fully mask that insincerity. You arenât that good an actor. Few people are.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>What You Say is Who You Are\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>This leads to the central, unshakeable thesis of Fischerâs philosophy: \x3Cstrong>what you say is who you are.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âPeople only experience you based on what comes out of your mouth,â\x3C/em> he reiterates. \x3Cem>âThey base their entire perception of you, your entire reputation, all anybody will ever talk about you...is simply what you say.â\x3C/em> The logic is brutally direct. If you use kind words, you are a kind person. If you use rude words, you are a rude person.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This is not a condemnation; it is an incredible opportunity. If you wish you were different, more respected, more liked, the power is entirely within your control. You donât need new software or better lighting. \x3Cem>âIf you want a better life, you first have to use better words,â\x3C/em> Fischer declares. Start by envisioning the person you want to be in 20 years. How does that person talk? Start using that vocabulary now.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>But can you truly reprogram yourself by changing your words first? Do poses the critical question: can an unkind person become kind simply by using kind words? Fischer believes it is possible, but only if the desire for change is genuine. If you are merely a âfox in the hen house,â wearing a disguise to manipulate others, the truth will always shine through.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The infamous downfall of Ellen DeGeneres serves as a stark case study. For decades, her public persona was built on the mantra âBe Kind.â Yet, a 2020 BuzzFeed News exposé revealed numerous allegations of a toxic work environment behind the scenes. The public-facing kindness was, allegedly, a performance. Once that perception shattered, her brand crumbled. Fischerâs analysis is that this external disconnect is almost always a reflection of an internal one. \x3Cem>âThe person you see is not the person youâre talking to,â\x3C/em> he explains. She wasnât true to her audience because she likely wasnât being true to herself.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>We are all products of a lifetime of experiences that others cannot see. The issue is rarely the issue. An explosive reaction to a minor inconvenience is often the culmination of a bad day, or even a bad life, that had nothing to do with you. This is where a crucial mindset shift comes in. Fischer teaches the use of a simple word to create space for grace: \x3Cem>âmaybe.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>When someone cuts you off in traffic, instead of reacting with anger, you can think, \x3Cem>âMaybe they have to get there faster than I do.â\x3C/em> When a colleague is curt, \x3Cem>âMaybe theyâre having a bad day. Maybe theyâre hungry. Maybe theyâre scared.â\x3C/em> This âmaybe mindset,â as Fischer calls it, is freeing. It detaches you from taking everything personally and allows you to operate from a place of generosity rather than victimhood, a key to overcoming the \x3Ca href=\"/watch/why-money-doesnt-solve-everything-tom-bilyeu-podcast\">scarcity mindset\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Architect of the Conversation\x3C/h2>\n\n\x3Cp>The final layer of communication mastery is learning to architect the conversation itself. This is especially critical when dealing with disagreeable people, those who have tied their identity to the need to be right.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The amateur approach is to confront the person directly. The masterâs approach is to reframe the environment. Fischerâs most powerful technique is this: \x3Cstrong>prime the room, not the person.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Instead of creating a confrontation, you establish shared rules of engagement that apply to everyone. This subtle shift is the difference between accusation and collaboration.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Consider the two approaches for starting a difficult one-on-one meeting:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Defining the Person (Bad):\x3C/strong> \x3Cem>âChris, I need you to be honest with me. If you disagree, feel free to say whatever.â\x3C/em> This is immediately confrontational. It implies you donât trust Chris to be honest on his own. It puts him on the defensive.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Defining the Space (Good):\x3C/strong> \x3Cem>âI want to make sure this is a room where we can be totally transparent with each other.â\x3C/em> This is inclusive. The rule applies to both of you. It invites collaboration and creates what Fischer calls a âsacred spaceâ for honest dialogue.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\n\x3Cp>By defining the room, you are implicitly stating your own commitment to transparency and inviting the other person to join you in that commitment. Itâs a non-threatening invitation that gets buy-in without demanding it. As Do notes, it seems like youâre saying the same thing, but the feeling is completely different.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This technique scales. When speaking to a large audience, you can create the same intimacy. Fischer suggests opening a talk by asking, \x3Cem>âCan we agree that this is a space where we can be real for a second?â\x3C/em> The entire audience will nod. In that moment, they have given you permission to be direct, to speak from the heart. They feel they are getting an exclusive, unfiltered version of you because you collectively defined the terms of engagement.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>You have set the stage. You are no longer just a speaker talking at them; you are a facilitator in a room where realness is the agreed-upon currency.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>This is the ultimate expression of control in communication. You are not just choosing your words; you are designing the very container in which those words are shared. You are the architect.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>The power to command respect, to build trust, and to connect authentically is not a mystery. It begins with the conscious choice to control the timing, the pace, and the framing of your conversations.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Cp>
1Ultimately, it all comes back to one truth. What you say is who you are. Choose your words, and you choose your legacy.\x3C/p>",transcript:"People only experience you based on what comes out of your mouth and they will judge everything about you. >> People ask me this all the time, so I'm going to have you do all the heavy lifting here. How does one become so good at communication? >> What they need to do is make the first word that they say. If you're somebody right now listening and you feel like, I wish I was different. I wish I was more respected. You can do it. You have to use better words. What you say is who you are. All you need to do is >> My guest on today's podcast is Jefferson Fischer, who's been able to grow millions of followers on social media, over six million on Instagram, and 1.4 on Tik Tok. He is the communications expert, and he's a fifth generation attorney. And on today's episode, he's going to answer this question that you all have on your mind, which is, how do you become a better communicator? How do you find the words and the tone to communicate your true intention? I just want to take a second to acknowledge the thousand plus members who support this channel. You make all of this possible. You allow us to keep doing what we do and for that I'm incredibly grateful. So, if you can do me a big favor, consider joining, becoming a member, and supporting us in our educational endeavors. Hit the link below. See you on the inside. My story with you begins with a friend and he's his name is Mo and Mo's like, \"You got to check this guy out.\" >> And he sends me one of your clips. I think it's Tik Tok originally, but maybe it was Instagram. I can't remember. >> This is like a little over a year ago. And I'm watching you deliver >> something in the car, which is I think super hard to do. >> Just you I imagine you holding your iPhone or something and recording >> and I'm blown away by your communication skills >> and how warm and earnest you are and how applicable the things that you say are. So, I'm thrilled to have this conversation with you because I think you're going to help me solve a big problem that I have. People ask me this all the time, so I'm going to have you do all the heavy lifting here. How does one become so good at communication? >> If you want to be better at communication, you first have to understand that it can only happen on your time, like in your timing. People will often try to rush conversations. They'll rush issues. A lot of the times that leads to arguments, leads to disagreements, it leads to bad feelings, it leads to assumptions. So when you rush conversation, it kind of presents this quicksand. Not the kind of quicksand that exists now. I'm talking about like when you're a kid, the quicksand that you think was just everywhere and you're always just, you know, step one foot in it and you you disappear completely. Um, whenever you find that you are being rushed in your conversation, bad things can happen. Have you ever been in a conversation with somebody and they're like, \"Hey, do you have five minutes?\" And you go, \"Yeah, sure.\" And it's it's rarely if ever five minutes or if somebody is trying to question you about something and they want your opinion right then. That conversation right now, it's a bad time. you're having it over dinner when it should be a good time or you're you're right about to go to sleep and your spouse rolls over and goes, \"Hey, so I've been thinking about this thing.\" And they drop it like right before you're like closing your eyes like, \"Hey, what what's going on?\" So, we often find that we wait until we have 10% of our battery for 100% of a conversation. And when you have that disproportionality, bad things can happen. Okay, I'm feeling every word that you're saying right now for a number of different reasons. Let's talk about the one where you're about to get into bed and your partner, your spouse is like, \"I need to talk to you about this thing.\" Now, I've been guilty on both sides here. So, number one, I think as a man, I often don't want to bring up mostly just with my wife, >> like difficult conversations. I keep punting it down until it's like there's no more time left. Let's say um somebody like one of my friends wants to stay at our house. I'm like, \"Oh, it's not going to go well.\" So, I just wait and wait thinking that there's going to be a great time and now time has run out. And I'll bring it up last minute like that. And then she gives me this look like, \"You knew about this for like a month. Why did you wait till now?\" So, on that side, I I I've been guilty, but I want to hear from the other side, which is my my wife will bring up something right before we're about to go to bed. I'm like, I'm so tired right now. >> And we engage and the conversation is not very fruitful often times. And sometimes it can lead to another fight. I'm like, \"Oh gos
1h, I just wanted to go to sleep.\" What do we do in a situation like that? >> Well, it's kind of this advice. If you have all the time in the world, then you have no time in the world. If if you go, I can do this anytime, you typically never get it done, right? Because it's it's not set right there on your plate. So, if it is something important, what you don't want to wait to do is like in my world, the worst time is we wait for the kids go down for bed. Why? Because we get home, we have two kids, five and seven, and we're doing dinner, we're doing bath, we're doing the whole routine, and they finally go down, you know, 8:30 or so. And that's the first time I get to look at my wife and go, \"Hi, what's your name?\" You're like, \"Oh, good to good to see you. We're, you know, we're who who are we?\" And then we and then what do we kind of do? We kind of decompress. Maybe talk about your day. Maybe not. Maybe it's like, \"Look, I got to go back to work. I got to get something knocked out for either one of us. And you wait until these very small moments where you go, \"Hey, I need to talk to you about something.\" And you're like, \"Okay, I was I was getting ready to kind of come down for this. I'm I was ready to I'm landing my plane. Why are you telling me I got to go back up again?\" That's that's the worst. That's like um Yeah, you're you're about to It's like going on a plane. you taxi and you're waiting and they're like, \"Actually, there's a plane in front of our gate and we got to wait.\" You're like, \"That's this is the absolute I just want to go home.\" So, whenever you find let's let's do them both ways, okay? >> Somebody is approaching you in that kind of moment where you feel like I I don't have it in me. >> Instead of getting upset about it, it is make it more enticing for them to postpone it. So rather than me going, \"Do we really have to talk about this right now?\" Which is the worst thing to say. Why? Because they feel like they're alone in it. They feel like you're dismissing them. They're feeling like, \"Why am I the only one that's trying to, you know, help out in this marriage, this relationship instead, it's, hey, if we can have this tomorrow, if we can put this on the counter, I'm going to be much more aware in it. I'm going to be a lot better. I'm going to be not nearly as I'm going to be a lot more focused and attentive on it. If I talk to you right now, I know I'm not going to be my my full self. Another quick, so one first piece of advice is postpone it for the right reasons. If you ask anybody, say, \"Hey, if we can push this to tomorrow, do is that is that going to be hard? I'll be better in this conversation.\" Nobody's going to say, \"No, no, no, no. I need to have this conversation now while you're in the worst state.\" They're going to say, \"Okay, yeah, that's that's fine.\" So, if you can't number one, postpone, schedule it. That's the biggest thing. Even if you have you schedule everything else. I've seen your content. I know you're all about, you know, having your time blocks for things and being very efficient with your calendar, why not do the most important thing that's even more of a priority in your life, and that's with your your partner and your spouse. Schedule those those hard conversations. It feels inorganic. I don't care. You need you have to schedule it because if you don't, it's like if we have all the time in the world for it, we have no time in the world for it. Second of all is anytime when they're approaching you with that kind of hey I really want to do this right now. I like to use the phrase I can tell. Anytime I begin with I can tell because it forces you to have self-awareness in the conversation. And it it would sound like I can tell I am way too tired for this right now. I can tell I'm feeling off. I can tell I'm not feeling myself. I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation. I can tell I'm not prepared for this conversation. If you are can be that clear with the person you are closest with the most. Like why why wouldn't you be to say I can I can tell I'm not prepared for this conversation rather than just going okay yeah all right you want to do this I guess I guess we're doing this fine like while your head is still on the pillow. Um it's that doesn't it's not going to breed a a productive conversation. It's not going to lead to a productive conversation. So those are the big two components. Now if let's say it's the other way around. You you're let's say in your example you're your spouse and you need to communicate with this person. Ask when to schedule it. You don't ever want to just pop up. You don't ever say, \"Oh, hey, uh something I need to talk with you about that's really super important about our day and can absolutely control all of our moods and feelings.\" You you you definitely want to schedule it. So, um, yeah, it's it's because what's really when somebody rolls over and goe
1s, \"Hey, can I talk to you about something, uh, and they're it's something they've been mulling on for way longer than you have, something they've been thinking about the entire day, you've been thinking about 0% of the day, and the first time you're hearing about it is when you're trying to really go to sleep.\" Um, so instead of having that that moment of I'm going to push it all on you, it's giving him a road map. Hey, at some point I need to talk with you about the kids schedule for tomorrow. When is best to do that? When would be most helpful to do that? Now, that might the answer might be, oh, right now is good. I'm I'm okay. We can do about it right now. But you you have to a real quick way to do that is we kind of take a temperature check. What how much percentage of a battery we have left? You know, do you I I like to use the word capacity or bandwidth. you know, what's what's your capacity for a conversation about, you know, what what we have coming up next week? Hey, my parents are coming in town. They want to do XYZ. Is this you want to talk about this now? You want to talk about it tomorrow? The answer is always going to be tomorrow. Like you said, you always find a way of pushing that conversation off. You got to schedule it or else it's not going to happen. >> Okay. There's a lot of things I just picked up here. Number one is when I first asked you this question, you took a minute. When I say minute, like a a a pause. >> Yeah. And I notice you do that quite a bit when you're being interviewed. You'll pause, you'll think about it. >> And I notice sometimes when people are asked the question, they just immediately start saying stuff because a lot of people are are verbal processors >> and you'll take a minute, you'll go through what you're going through and then you'll give a very succinct answer to what it is and you'll give just the right amount of examples with practical application. So I admire that a lot. So if somebody is of that type when they're just asked a question and they just start talking right away, what can they do to take time and space for themselves to pause and just think and sort through their ideas? >> What they need to do is make their breath the first word that they say. So rather than going straight into the conversation, rather than just start with the the word vomit, the let me spill out my ideas, if you just take a breath right before you respond, what it's doing is not only regulating your body, you know, making sure you're more aware and in control of your emotions. It is signaling to the other person that what I'm about to say has been thought about, has been acknowledged. There's a difference of you asking me a question, hey Jefferson, how was your day? And I went, it was good. It was good, Chris. It was fine. It was fine. It was a good day. Doesn't really sound like I really thought about it, but if you asked me, hey Jefferson, how was your day? And I went, you know, Chris, it was good. It was a good day. Ups and downs, but it was good. Which one of those sounds like I actually acknowledged what you said, really thought about it, and and in exchange you actually want to hear what I'm about to say more? Like same thing with in an interview. That's probably one of the top things I talk about with friends that are going into an interview and they're like, \"Hey, what should I do?\" It's like the slower you answer the question, the better the interview will be. They ask you a question and you just immediately try to it has to be as fast as possible. That's the opposite. What you are need needing to exude in that moment is I can take stressful moments including the interview that I'm in and be able to regulate myself and show you that I'm not somebody who runs in conversation. I walk in it. And whenever you slow yourself down, they're going to find that what you're saying is they're going to even feel that what you're saying is more thought out and more intentional than if it's just off the cuff. to the best of your ability to recall when do you first remember this being a conscious thought or effort from your part? >> I started teaching clients this very early on in my really first year associate. Uh I was at a law firm that was the type that you know I wasn't behind a lot of partners. It was like these are your clients. You either sink or swim get after it. So you really go to your first trial, your first year by yourself. And I can remember training some of the first people on they get so nervous before their deposition. There's cameras, there's other people. And I'm teaching them, okay, instead of just going right into it, they ask you a question instead of just having an immediate response, take a minute. And some I would say, I want you to just count one Mississippi. That's it. Just one. And I mean, I did all kinds of things to try and get them to remember it. And so then what I would do is I would put on the hat of being the opposing attorney and I'd say, \"Okay, Chris, you know, you understand that you're here today. Is that ain't that true?\" And I would start to kind of pressure them and get them all kind of worked up. And I'd say, \"Okay, this is the moment. This is where count just in your head, one Mississippi. Okay, now answer.\" Instead of feeling like you're in their time frame, in their time space, you're controlling it. You're saying, \"Nope, I'm the one that's driving in my lane. you can't do anything about it. So, it's really it's like teaching defensive driving verbally how to do that. Now, on the flip end of that is I I'm a fifth generation trial attorney. All the men in my attorney family are attorneys, women, too. And my dad is this way. I could come to my dad with an issue and I'd say, \"Oh, that we got this. We have this problem.\" And he'd go, \"Yep, that's a problem.\" You know what I mean? Like that. who's just always very very very keel. And so I would be I would be like, \"Oh my gosh, Dad, they're going to be they're but they're going to be really upset.\" And he would take a beat and say, \"Yep, I guess they'll be upset.\" That was just his type of demeanor. >> And so, of course, it's just genetics mirroring that my entire life. Um, yeah, he was he would always exude the the run or the walk don't run kind of mentality. >> I can feel my energy change just by the way that you were changing your tone and the pace in which you were talking. >> This is just goes to to the point of like how much the tone and the way that you deliver. the words matter sometimes even more than the words because when you were putting on that like um that mock trial thing with the opposing council saying so what were you I just felt like whoa >> like I'm going to say something probably not that smart probably something that's going to incriminate myself right then >> right right even if you don't mean to >> yeah I I just felt it right away because your baseline is so calm reassuring and and just gentle and inviting that the minute that you switched that up I could feel it immediately I'm sure I'm not the only one. If you're listening to this, just let us know that I'm not the only person who felt that. >> Right. Right. Right. Well, the thing is anybody can do it, Chris. It's I mean, it's more natural to me because this is how I was raised. This is the household I I I was in. I mean, I was raised on on the Socratic method. You I'd come with the problems and my dad would say, \"Well, what do you think they would say about that?\" You know, like he would always put it in the position of the the other person and slow me down. But like if you're listening right now, if you want to sound more confident, more respected in your communication and more even more serious, more warm, whatever it is, all you need to do is slow down your words and lower your volume. It makes a huge impact. If you are with somebody who's always loud and very aggressive, do you want to do more of what they s
1ay or less? So like compare it to to this. If I were to say, \"Look, Chris, I already told you I'm not I'm I'm not going to do that versus Chris already told you I'm not going to do that.\" Now, which one of those is, let's say, somebody who sounds more grounded, somebody who sounds more balanced, somebody who sounds more composed, somebody really you don't want to mess with. It's actually the person who sounds less emotional, the person who sounds less aggressive, who says, \"Oh, no. This is not somebody I want to mess with.\" And it's I'm saying the same thing, but the connotation, the feeling is very, very different. >> Okay. You say it, I feel it, I live it. There's so many people who will hear this and say like, gosh, I just I can't figure it out. Now, you must have worked with some some clients in in the courtroom where you're like, okay, just take a breath. >> We go real slow and then you see them on the stand and they're like, >> that's got to happen, right? >> Oh, yeah. It'll happen all the time. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And when you're on break, do you how do you redirect? How do you get them in that pocket again? >> Yeah. So, you kind of have to do it without telling them about it. Like I have >> um for example, I had this guy once who um you know, he had read some stuff on Google and he's like, \"Oh, no. You know, I read you need to be, you know, really short with your answers.\" I like, \"Oh, that's that's all great.\" And they on textbook, they think they got it all worked out. And despite all of my preparation with them, they got we had I had them go right into the deposition. He started out great. And it it took n no no no time at all. Chris, he was starting to step on the other attorney's questions. So before the attorney was actually an finished with their question, he's already stepping on it with their answer. So he the question was something like, you know, now you went that day. You first drove to your cousins and you'd be like house. Yep. I went to their house. So he's stepping on the the words which you don't want to do because in terms of the reason why there's a court reporter is because everything's written down. So on paper it doesn't look good. It's what they would say it's a messy record because you have these insertions into instead of a full question a full answer. And he kept doing it and I was like you know better. And so in my head I'm like all right this next question I'm going to pull him out. So sure enough he answers the last question stepped on it again. And I say, \"Okay, let's take a we're just going to take a five-minute break. Let's just take a little break. You want to stand up for a second?\" He's like, \"Yeah, that's fine.\" And so we get out of the room and I just say, \"Hey, just walk with me.\" And so I'm unrolling a peppermint while I'm doing it, just action acting super nonchalant. I pop it in my mouth. I'm just sit right here. We sit down and I say, \"So, um, how old are your kids again?\" And he was like, \"Ah, yeah, you know, seven. Seven and eight.\" I was like, \"Oh, that's that's great. That's great. Ages. What? What? What did y'all uh what' y'all do the last week? And all of a sudden, he starts to like calm down. He's like, \"Oh, we uh we went to um a movie.\" I was like, \"What movie?\" He's like, \"It's the movie with the you know, the talking animals.\" I think it was like um Madagascar, you know, uh something like that. Madagascar 2. I was like, \"Oh, that's that's great.\" I was like, \"Was it good?\" And he stops and he slows down and he goes, \"Yeah, I mean it was good. You know, it was a cute movie.\" And I said, 'Good. All right. You see what we're doing here? He goes, \"Yeah.\" I said, \"That's exactly what you're going to do in there.\" I said, \"We're going to slow it down.\" He goes, \"Ah, I'm stepping on it, aren't I?\" I said, \"Yep, that's exactly what you're doing.\" All right, so let's let's go back and treat it just like you're you're talking to me right here. And sure enough, he went right back. He's like, he had to hear it. He had to feel it >> for me to make him click rather than me pulling him out and going, \"Hey, stop >> stepping on the question and get let him get it all out.\" Okay, that's not going to do it. But by showing the example, making them feel like it was or just right there, keeping it in the pocket. I was like, let's let's stay right in this momentum. You feel this? And he was like, yeah, I feel that. Okay, let's stay right here. So, I use that phrase in the pocket a whole lot with him. >> Okay, this is excellent. Very interesting how you took it to a very conversational level where there's nothing for him to be nervous about. >> Yeah. and so that he can be a better performer in the courtroom because there shouldn't be a difference between this style of talking versus like when you're getting grilled by the other attorney. And I find that in sales, we can have a normal conversation, everything's going great, but when they're on a call with a client, they get all high pitch, they get really nervous and anxious, and they start start talking really fast. They start doing performative things that they normally just don't do. So are we talking there's this universal concept about communication like how you talk to a really good friend is how you should talk everywhere in my opinion. Yes. Now I would say there's a difference in of course context and environment. I'm not going to talk to a prospective client the same way I'm going to talk to my grandmother, you know, or or or my best friend or my dad. There's casual situations where when you and I are in sweatpants and drinking coffee talking about life, it's not the same. So, but I would say the premise holds true that you generally want everybody to feel very comfortable around you. Even when you're public speaking, one of the best compliments you can get is you seem so comfortable up there. Yeah. Because when you understand that I don't have anything to prove. I'm just telling you what I know. I can be excited about what I have to share. And when I get excited about the message of what I'm giving, then I can channel that excitement into how it's going to benefit everybody else. And that that's a that's a wonderful thing to be generous with your words and generous with your message. Now, if somebody is grilling you in a deposition type of setting, it is it is different. It just it's understanding that you can't make me say anything I don't want to say and you can't make me talk any faster than I'm going to respond. So when I understand that I'm the one that has control of the steering wheel at all times, it's a very confident mindset. It's a gamechanging type of concept. When you understand that you you say something to me, I can choose not to say anything at all. That is a pretty powerful thing. People feel like you always have to have a response. It's not true. So when you're talking in front of people, even in that sales context, if you can't just be you, like we have such a six sense of knowing when somebody's being fake. Let me tell you what, a jury knows immediately, Chris, if somebody's being fake. And they will destroy them. They will pour their whole case out if they feel like they're being fake. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a jury totally turn on somebody's case if they thought that they were being somebody that they're not. Like you just meet somebody and go there's something about them that doesn't it's just this six sense that we have. I think it's very um I don't I I'm not sure if it's just the DNA of our cavemanlike abilities to go, \"No, something doesn't smell right about this. I'm not sure what it is, but something's not.\" And and it's even people who try too hard, right? They're like \"No >> they're trying too hard.\" Like, what does that even mean? They're they're being somebody that they're not. Ever had somebody try to really make you like them? You're like, it makes you it's it's a turnoff. Now you definitely don't like them. Why? because they're trying too hard to be liked. I don't they're being somebody that they're not. Uh if a
1witness on the stand is faking sympathy, like trying to gain sympathy, let's say they kind of act, you can tell they're being fake emotional about it. They really don't mean it. Or a jury will just go, \"Nope, we don't trust you. No credibility. I think you're faking it.\" And it's it's King's X every time. What what are some other ways that we can tell that somebody's faking it? Like when you say try too hard, I see that like, oh my god, it's so good to see you. You're so amazing. I'm like, come on. >> You don't know me. >> Come on. You say that to everybody, please. Come on. I get that one. What are other ones that you can can label for us? Um well, you have the people who I think it's a little bit different for you and I kind of in this space because we have a certain extent of content that we put out that people know. And so what do they want? They want to feel connected to us. And so some people resort to over compliments. Like they compliment everything. Even things you're like that's I you feel like you're going a little bit too far there if they're just gushing. It can be from a good place but that sometimes will lose that connection because there's this sense of falsity to it where it's it's so much surface they don't feel that it's it's good. Um another way that you can easily bring in disconnection is the people who name drop right it's really a source of that insecurity. uh you know those the type that they're you uh say, \"Hey, what's what's going on?\" And they feel that because they're near you, Chris, they need to show you that they're worthy of knowing other bigname people. And they go, \"Oh, yeah. I was with Greg the other night. You know, Greg, right? Just, you know, sold his company for three billion. I was on his yacht anyway.\" And and they start talking to you and you're like, \"That's not that's not impressive to me, but I don't know why you you get what I mean? They they they do it to make you feel like they're worthy of that company. And so rather than having the feeling that they have that sense of worth in themselves without having to name drop anybody, they have to get that from somewhere. It's like the people who um the really wealthy people that I know, you would never know from the look of them. They they don't they're not dressing crazy. they're in just a regular used car. The people who I guess are somewhat rich are the people who wear the flashy stuff. The the designer every they have to make sure everybody else knows. Same thing with talking in a meeting. Sense of confidence. If you're the person who always has to have the last word, always has to throw in your two cents in every Zoom meeting. These are typically the people that are farthest removed from the actual decision- making. They just want you to know that they know the answer. You know how smart they are, how much they know. Um, and so it's people mistake talking time, the amount of time that they talk for the amount of value they give. Uh, that is often very disproportionate. >> I like hearing that. As an introvert, I don't talk much, especially when I'm around a bunch of alpha bros. And this happens a lot of those >> around guys. >> I don't know why. >> And I do. >> Yeah. You defin I mean we Yeah. When guys when the bro we get around the bros. >> Yeah. >> Uh yeah. It's just a cheese. It's just how how >> Yeah. >> How big can you puff up your chest? That's all it is. >> Yeah. But the thing is I I just keep wondering to myself, don't you all just see that? that inside there was probably a person who was bullied as a kid who was not popular or well-liked and then has achieved a lot of success relatively recently like the last 5 to 10 years >> and they still feel as they're responding from that like junior high day and we're like at a table you're here. You're accepted. You don't have to prove anything. And the fact that the more you try to prove >> the more distasteful I find it to be. But >> sometimes I get caught in these conversations. I'm like gosh I just feel so foreign. Yeah. >> In this moment right now, >> yeah, I can relate to that. You meet these people that seem like they have it all together and then when you meet them, you go, \"Oh, that's actually not at all what it it truly is. Perception is rarely reality.\" Um I think it was um Oprah maybe and one time she said like out of all everybody she's interviewed presidents everybody at the after the interview they all want to know did I do okay >> right you know it it's are they going to like me do you like me am I still going to be somebody it's just that inner that inner voice that inner fear of everybody it doesn't it doesn't matter so when somebody when somebody's name dropping you. >> Yeah. >> Meaning when they are coming to you and name dropping somebody else important or talking about something that you know that they're saying it to impress you. My biggest advice is just to be impressed, right? Just say, \"Well, that's great, man. That's awesome.\" instead of trying to outdo it, instead of trying to dismiss it, like you have to see the seventh grade kid who has just never been at the cool table in junior high and this is their chance. And so if you can just give a little grace to say, \"Oh, that's awesome. Congratulations, man.\" And genuinely from a a heartfelt place, they will follow you and love you forever if you just show them to say, \"Hey, I see you. That's really cool. Great job.\" Like that right there is they'll said, \"This is somebody I trust. That's wonderful. I like that.\" Uh I think I heard you say this or at least it was on the Mel Robbins interview with you where you said something where somebody says like, \"What you say is who you are.\" Yeah, I I want to follow down that rabbit hole a little bit because I think a lot of people think learning a communication skills is to do something that it doesn't reflect your genuine desire. >> And so if you live and think a certain way, I think the words and your tone will c
1ome across a certain way and then you can just sharpen that. But I think because somebody had asked me this question before, like during a sales role play, they asked me, Chris, how is it that you project so much that you care? I said, you want to know the dirty secret? tell you right now, I actually care. Yeah. >> And their minds are blown. They're like, \"You mean you care about the other person? I'm just trying to get money from them.\" >> Yeah. >> And I said, \"Well, your thoughts betray you then.\" >> Mhm. >> It's pretty clear that your intention is to close this at all costs. That it doesn't really matter if what you do solves a problem for the other person. And there's a air of insincerity. And you talked about we have a six sense and we can we can tell because you're not that good. You're not that good at faking it. Few people are. >> Yeah. You're not any good at all. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I I think so. Yeah. Um >> that's very true. >> What you say is is who you are. >> And what I I say is that people only experience you based on what comes out of your mouth. Like rarely do they have this full interaction, this whole display of your entire life. They get these micro moments. And they will judge everything about you on these little bitty micro moments. They might see the act of kindness. They might see you open the door for somebody and they go, \"Oh, that's nice.\" They're they're very polite. Rarely, they base their entire perception of you, your entire reputation, all anybody will ever talk about you and how people will talk about you when you're gone from this earth is simply what you say. And it's this easy. You say nice things, congrats, you're a nice person. You say funny things, you're a funny guy. All right. I mean, the flip is the true. If you say things that are rude, if you say things that are disrespectful, if you say things that aren't nice, well, congratulations. You're now seen as somebody that's not liked. When you say, \"I don't like this person,\" what you really mean is they say things I don't like. >> If you say, \"Oh, this he's a nice guy,\" what you mean is he says things that I I like to hear. He said nice things. And so when you realize that that's simply the power is not going to go download this new software. The power is not in oh I I have to make sure I have the the best lighting, the best camera, the best everything. That's not the power of the quality. It's it's simply what you decide to say and how you say it. It's it's really as simple as simple as that. You you can't what I say is you can't be a kind person if you don't use kind words. It it doesn't happen that way. So, the good news is if you're somebody right now listening and you feel like, I wish I was I wish I was different. I wish I was more respected. I wish I was whatever. You can do it. You have to use better words. If you want a better life, you first have to use better words. Words that serve you better, words that serve the other person better. It's just a different vocabulary. So think in your mind if you could say envision who you want to be 20 years from now and you go how does this person talk and you start using that vocabulary now that's the first step to get there. You think of your life how how did you see arguments in your life? How did your parents argue? You probably mirror that. How does your parent talk? How did they talk to you? You probably mirror that in some way. And so when you realize that it's all of that's really within your control of what you choose to say next, it's a pretty cool concept. >> Okay. So I have to ask this question then if I'm an unkind person. Can I start using kind words and reprogram myself? Because the harder path is to be a different person and then the words that you would choose will reflect what you really think. Am are you saying that in 10 years I can say like I I aspire to be a better person, a kinder, more patient, more giving, generous person. I'm not that today. I'm going to use the language that the people that I aspire to become and then I can program my subconscious myself. Is that possible? >> Yes. Yeah. I I I truly believe if you if you genuinely believe it, if you do it from a sense of you you're a fox in the hen house, you're just trying to behave a certain way and I'm trying to to look like everybody else, but on the inside I'm not a nice person. Well, that that'll always shine through. It's never going to be genuine. Um I am firmly in the camp that if you're somebody that does not have a good reputation right now, you can change that reputation. It takes time. >> It's not something that's immediate. Just because you have one nice conversation with somebody does not mean it's going to immediately change their whole mind about you. >> But over time, you will first make them question it, their first impression, and then they start to peel back the onion a little bit more and a little bit more. And eventually the good in your words, you have to be so generous to where you don't care what comes back. I'm just giving positive words to you. I'm giving you kindness whether or not you deserve it. Why? Because that is my value. Like my mom taught me very early where there is room for kindness, I will use it. That that was that was her entire still is. I could come to her with an issue and I'd be upset about something and I'd say, \"But mom, they did this.\" And she'd say, \"Well, were you kind?\" I'd say, \"Well, mom, you don't understand. they just did X, Y, and Z. And she said, well, Jefferson, I still think you should be kind. Like, it was her whole thing of, I don't care what they did. What did you do? Like, that was her her whole mentality. And so, when you say to yourself, because typically people are innately unkind because we have this mentality that somebody else has done something to me to cause this. We have the victim mentality. They've they've pulled this out of me. I am disenfranchised. I am I'm a victim of everybody else. It's a scarcity mindset. But when you just just decide that to be generous with your benefit benef
1its of the doubt in everyday conversation instead of taking everything personally, you just use I like to I teach you use the word maybe. Well, maybe they're having a bad day. Maybe they're going through something. Maybe they're overwhelmed. Maybe they're maybe they're in a bad mood. Maybe they're hungry. Maybe they're scared. whenever maybe they have to get there faster than I do. You know, anytime I use this maybe mindset, it's so freeing. And when able whenever you're able to do that in conversation, people will find that you're the one who they can count on to uh always deliver. I love that. And if you're listening to this, I would probably write that in your notebook. I I like this word maybe because it just opens up for other possible explanations than the one that you're probably thinking right now. And it creates a little bit more grace and generosity in the interpretation of what's happened. And I like that because often times we're so locked in a fixed perspective that just having that word maybe and then imagine what else it could be and it starts to open things up. I learned this through my business coach. He didn't use the word maybe, but he would say like what else what else could this mean? And then it just helped me to just zoom out a little bit. And then you start to become a little bit less attached to your emotional state, your victim mindset, your scarcity mindset. And allows you to have a shift in perspective. Not always, but it's a really darn good start. >> And now I have to ask this question um I ask this question of you, which is when we use kind words or we use words that reflect who we want to become, eventually we can become that person if we want. Now, quite famously, um, Ellen Degenerous was cancelled because on camera she appears to be a very kind, warm, quirky person, but when the cameras were off, she apparently is a really mean-spirited person and belittles people. And so, once that eventually got out, her whole thing was ruined. For a person who's practiced this for decades, I guess it didn't seem to change her at all. On the surface, I don't know that much about it. What could possibly be the reason behind this you think that we can learn from? I think what we can learn is there is a person behind everybody and that's a person that you don't know. What I what I teach is the person you see is not the person you're talking to. Like you see me talking to you right now, but you have no clue how my morning went. You have no clue about the state of my marriage or my siblings or my anybody. Like we have family that we we live in a world that is riddled with addiction, with struggles, with problems and issues that we would never want to be shared. So you say something like with her again, I have no clue. I don't know much about her other than the show that there is a separate side that is typically what I would foresee as a past that we know nothing about and a past that has created a person who feels like they cannot be true to themselves because we now know she wasn't true to us, >> right? you know, allegedly, >> right? >> What that's often a reflection of is they weren't true to themselves. Uh because that that it always sifts. It's it's just it it always has a way of filtering down to to us. If you feel like I'm not being true with you, usually because I don't feel like I'm being true to my myself. There's always a surface and a depth. And you can feel this in conversation too with somebody. you feel like all of a sudden, oh, they have a really high reaction, like a big emotional reaction to something that you thought was pretty small. It's very telling that discrepancy. And what it tells you is they're having a conversation in their head that you weren't invited to. Like, it's not My dad would always tell me the issue is rarely the issue. The the issue is not that I left the sink on the counter, you know. The issue is my wife got an email first thing in the morning from a client that put her in a mood and throughout the day it she got more frustrated and so I was the precipice of that. There's there's always and I could say it for me too, you know, it's not that somebody did this. My big reaction was I was already having a bad day long before I even walked into the room. And so sometimes that room is your life. I am meeting somebody that has had a lifetime of things happening to them and I am making a determination of what's happening to them. But the truth is they were walking throughout life long before I met them. like I'm only seeing a mirror, a small moment of of who they are, who they want me to think that they are. So that's that tells me that there's always well, it just only reinforces the truth to me that the person you see is rarely the the person you're talking to. And if you wind up being in a room with a person that is somebody that's really disagreeable to you and you you have the option not to be there, h how do you stay present in that moment? How do you continue to give grace or do you exit out of that conversation? It depends. It depends how they're treating me. Um let's let's put it in some different c
1ontexts. Somebody who's very disagreeable is usually somebody who always has to be right. They're the person who's tied their identity to the concept of being right because that's how they tie their value. That's how they've decided they matter is if people say that I'm right. And there's some people that are very black and white. No, there is a right and there is a wrong. That there's no gray ever. And we know those kind of people. We know those people that always have to have the last word. And they're going to continue to argue until they're the ones having the last word. Well, knowing that, I might begin with the phrase of I'm going to tell you something and you don't have to agree with me. Or I might say, \"It's okay to disagree with me.\" Like, I'm just giving you that freedom instantly of, \"Here, have it. You don't got to disagree with me.\" And when I say something like that, when I say you don't have to agree with me, my thought is, and I'm telling you it's okay, it's almost a relief to them of the, \"Oh, okay. I was I was kind of expecting to fight. I I was expecting I had to like gather up all my ammunition. I'm saying you don't have to to have that. Um I also might try and prime what I I call priming the room. Instead of talking about them, I talk about the space. It doesn't feel nearly as personal. So I might sit down and let's say you and I, Chris, are in a meeting and I know it's going to be a tense conversation. I might sit down and I say,\"I want to make sure that we're in a space where we can be totally transparent with each other.\" Now, you say, \"I'm not,\" you see how different that is if I say, \"I want to make sure we're in a room where we can we can be honest here.\" You see how different that is than me saying, \"Okay, Chris, I need to talk to you and I
1need to make sure that you're honest with me.\" >> Yeah. >> Right. Instead, I'm talking about the room. So even for your in your world when they are salespersons in a room with clients and they set the tone of the conversation it is such a relief to other people because you're telling them where your road map is. You walk into the room and say I want to make sure that this is a space where you can tell me all the issues without any fear of judgment. Can we agree on that? Everybody's going to go yep. They're going to nod. I want to make sure that this is a room where we can be honest with each other whether or not you go with my product or not. Like there there is such a relief to people when they feel like, oh, okay, I don't have to I don't have to put up my defenses on everything. So those those are two little techniques I would use with somebody who's super disagreeable. >> God, that's so good. That's so freaking good. You know, I know you're listening to this people. You're like, \"Wait, he just said the same thing.\" No, he did not. Rewind. Listen to it as many times as you need to. And I just want to go over it one more time with you. I've heard you say this before, but it's still freaking good every time I hear it. >> You and I are in a room. It's just the two of us, right? >> And you could just say to me, \"Chris, I need you to be honest with me. Uh, if you disagree, feel free to say whatever.\" That puts me on the spot a little bit. >> Yep. >> Okay. and then then say it the way that would create um how you prime me to like have a conversation with you that's going to be really productive. How do you say that one more time please? >> Yeah. So I I will I will put the frame of the conversation in the space. So I might use the word room >> office place whatever that is. >> Uh so I might say I want to make sure this is a room where I can be totally transparent with you. And so most people will go, \"Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.\" They will always agree. They They never say no. But that's way better. And I I'm I'm The difference is I'm making the rules apply to both of us instead of saying, >> \"Chris, I need to make sure that you're being honest with me here.\" Um, that's very different. That's more poignant. That that adds in assumptions. All of a sudden, you're going to be thinking, \"Wait, you don't think I'm transparent? Wait, you think I'm I'm not trustworthy?\" But if I make the rules apply to both of us, it's it's kind of like me looking around my shoulder like, \"Look, can we can you and I just talk? Is that all right?\" That's the feeling that I'm giving. And people go, \"Oh, yeah. We we can talk.\" You see how it's just a different level of now we're a little bit closer now? Now it's now it's a protected now this is a sacred space that we've created. Can we can we talk in this? And so that's the kind of level that you can bring by simply defining the space that you're in. Rather than trying to define the person, define the space. >> Let's see if I got this right. It sounds to me like you're establishing the rules of engagement and what you're willing to commit to this conversation. And by inference, the other person's going to agree that of course I want you to be transparent, honest, and clear and open. And they're also then agreeing to it without having to say like I agree to participate in that way because it's inferred that they're going to do the same. >> Right. >> You got it. >> That's really beautiful. This is like some ninja mastery communication skills here. >> Good. Congratulations. >> It really is. >> Yeah. Wow. I really do like it. >> I haven't used this before, so I have to really think about this. >> Now, there's lots of different applications to it. Lot lots of different ones. Um, so it's it's always good if you're if you're instead of hey, okay, can everybody be on the same page here? And you're talking about the person, talk about the space. >> They do the same thing. >> If you're going to be hypothetically speaking, because I'm doing this, if you're going to be in a large room, 900 people, you're going to give a talk of some sort. What's an example of how how I could use something like that? So, what I would do is I would begin with, \"Can we agree?\" I know that sounds very attorney-l like. It works. It really does. Can we agree that this is a space where we can be real for a second? >>
1 And you know what everybody's going to do? They're going to nod. They're going to head nod. And you know what they do immediately when you do that is they've given you permission to say what's really on your heart. They've given you permission in that moment for you to like be direct. They they've it's like you they've given you the freedom all of a sudd. I felt like he was just really real with us because simply you prime the whole entire conversation around can we be real for a second. It's that same like hey can we can we come in real quick? They they people love that because it feels like they're getting information from you to the exclusion of all others. I I much prefer that versus me just getting real and then people are like shocked. They're like, \"Oh my god.\" >> Yeah. >> We weren't ready for this. And so when you s",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFY6-sxcymg",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/vFY6-sxcymg",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vFY6-sxcymg/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:5572,duration_display:"1h 32m",view_count:5617,published_at:"2026-01-24T13:01:40+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Speak Clearly, Gain Respect: The Confident | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do and Jefferson Fischer share a framework for clear, confident communication. Learn to speak so people listen and gain the respect you deserve.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-03-15T08:45:10.693482+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-29T10:17:34.298664+00:00",faq:$R[158]=[$R[159]={answer:"To become more confident, slow down and take control of the pace. Before answering a question, take a deliberate breath. This pause calms your nerves and signals to others that your response is thoughtful, which in turn makes you appear more composed and in control.",question:"How can I become a more confident speaker?"},$R[160]={answer:"Never have a critical conversation when you or the other person is tired or rushed. Proactively schedule difficult talks by asking, 'When is a good time to discuss this?' This ensures both parties have the mental and emotional capacity for a productive dialogue, rather than a reactive argument.",question:"What is the best way to handle difficult conversations?"},$R[161]={answer:"Reframe the situation by focusing on the value you are providing, not on being judged. Slow your speaking pace and lower your volume to project calm authority. Remember to take a breath before answering questions to give yourself time to think and regulate your emotions.",question:"How can I stop being nervous during public speaking or interviews?"},$R[162]={answer:"Authenticity comes from genuine intent. You cannot fake caring. The key is to match your words to your true values. Avoid performative behaviors like over-complimenting or name-dropping. Instead, focus on being present and speaking from a place of service to the listener.",question:"How do you build trust and appear more authentic when speaking?"}],transcript_status:"found",transcript_word_count:9682,schema_speakable:null,primary_keyword:"how to speak clearly",secondary_keywords:$R[163]=["confident communication","public speaking tips","communication skills","how to be a better communicator","command respect"],internal_link_suggestions:$R[164]=[],og_title:"Confident Communication Framework | Jefferson Fischer | The Futur",og_description:"Chris Do learns Jefferson Fischer's framework for clear communication that commands respect, from breathing techniques to conversation timing.",og_image:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vFY6-sxcymg/maxresdefault.jpg",content_type:"video",apple_podcast_embed_url:null,guest_name:null,pinned_ad_id:null,is_members_only:!1,audio_url:null,megaphone_episode_id:null},$R[165]={id:"5aa85343-7749-4a13-b095-993904ffee06",video_id:"05XuPA4Q_SE",title:"How to Build Content People Actually React To",slug:"how-to-create-content-that-gets-a-reaction",topic_tag:"CONTENT CREATION",secondary_tags:$R[166]=["SOCIAL MEDIA","MARKETING","BRANDING"],one_line_summary:"Chris Do coaches custom shoe creators on how to stop making predictable content and start creating emotionally resonant stories.",pull_quote:"Stories need tension.",pull_quote_attribution:"Chris Do",key_takeaways:$R[167]=[$R[168]={headline:"Predictability Kills Engagement",explanation:"If your audience knows the exact outcome of your content before it's over, there is no tension to hold their attention. Introduce strategic variability to break the pattern and create surprise."},$R[169]={headline:"Capture Reactions, Not Just Process",explanation:"Leverage mirror neurons by showing the emotional reaction of the recipient. The human connection generated by watching someone experience joy is far more powerful than simply observing a craft."},$R[170]={headline:"Embrace the Giving Economy",explanation:"Create powerful stories by gifting your craft to deserving people. The brand equity and audience this builds can become more valuable than the revenue from direct sales."},$R[171]={headline:"Mashup Worlds to Create Surprise",explanation:"Create unexpected and compelling juxtapositions by combining your core product with elements from other worlds. Blend sports with luxury fashion or street art to build something no one has seen before."}],episode_summary:"\x3Ch2>Your Process is Polished. Your Content is Predictable.\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>You have mastered your craft. The work is immaculate, the execution is flawless, and the final product is undeniably cool. You document every step, creating polished, high-quality videos that show the world exactly how you do what you do. Yet the likes are flat, the comments are sparse, and the viral moments feel like lightning strikes you canât control.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Your content has a fatal flaw.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Itâs predictable.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This was the exact challenge facing Chris and Colin of Chummies, a creative duo who pioneered the art of making custom âtrophy shoesâ by deconstructing sports jerseys and sewing them onto sneakers. In a live content review session with The Futurâs foun
1der, Chris Do, they laid out a common creatorâs dilemma: despite having multiple videos with over a million views, their average engagement was stuck in a frustrating middle ground.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>They produce stunning work, turning Nike sneakers into one-of-a-kind homages for sports fans. Their stated goal is to make fans feel more connected to their teams and brands. They measure this connection through social media engagement: views, comments, and shares. Their baseline for a reel is around 5,000 views. Hitting 10,000 feels like a success. But the million-view hits prove something much bigger is possible. The question is, what?\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Their initial theory pointed to cultural relevance. A video about Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow performs well when heâs in the playoffs. A shoe celebrating a FIFA moment catches the wave of global attention. Content tied to superstar athletes like Patrick Mahomes or Shohei Ohtani transcends the niche sports fan and taps into pop culture.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This analysis is correct, but it's incomplete. Relying on the zeitgeist makes your success dependent on factors outside your control. You become a surfer waiting for a wave, not a force that creates its own motion. Doâs diagnosis went deeper, moving past the obvious and into the architecture of their content itself.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI'm going to take a little bit longer to talk to you versus just answering your question about content,â\x3C/em> Do began, signaling a shift from tactical advice to strategic thinking. \x3Cem>âBecause I'm going to help a lot of creative people understand how to have a strategic business conversation.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The real problem wasn't their skill or their subject matter. It was their storytelling.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Monotony of Mastery\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>After watching a few of Chummiesâ videos, a pattern emerges. A shoe is presented. A jersey is deconstructed. The sewing process is shown with skillful precision. A finished product is revealed. Itâs a clean and effective formula for showcasing a craft.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>It is also the primary source of their engagement plateau.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âAfter a while it becomes, and I'm sorry to say this if this hurts you a little bit, it becomes a little predictable,â\x3C/em> Do explained. \x3Cem>âI watched two or three of these things. I feel like I've watched them all now at this point. I'm just waiting for my team to win.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is the moment most creators miss. They mistake consistency in process for consistency in storytelling. While a reliable structure is important, a predictable outcome is deadly. When the audience already knows how the story begins and, crucially, how it will end, there is no reason to remain emotionally invested. The tension is gone.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cstrong>Stories need tension.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do points out the internal feeling of a viewer who has seen the formula play out: \x3Cem>âI don't want to feel like I got his gig. I got it.â\x3C/em> The moment your audience feels they âgetâ your whole playbook, theyâve emotionally checked out. They might appreciate the craft, but they wonât feel compelled to comment, share, or evangelize.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The solution is not to abandon the format, but to introduce strategic variability within it. This is where Chummiesâ self-initiated projects, which make up 25% of their work, become a critical R&D lab for their content.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do challenged them to ask a simple question: \x3Cem>âWhat's one variable I could change?â\x3C/em> This question is the antidote to predictability. It forces a creator to break the mold without breaking the entire machine.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Change the Canvas:\x3C/strong> What if itâs not always a Nike? What if the silhouette is radically different, offering new panels and shapes to work with?\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Change the Materials:\x3C/strong> What if instead of just jerseys, you used leather from an actual game-used football? Or vinyl from an event banner? Or even the fuzzy material from a tennis ball?\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Change the Technique:\x3C/strong> What if you dipped the shoe, used hyper-black paint to create a silhouette effect, or introduced new embellishments? The unknown outcome of an experiment generates curiosity.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>Even a failed experiment can make for compelling content. \x3Cem>âSometimes they're just a disaster and they don't work,â\x3C/em> Do noted. \x3Cem>âBut you can tell people what you learned in making this shoe.â\x3C/em> A story about a failed attempt is often more human and relatable than another flawless execution. Breaking the monotony is the first step, but the next step is where true emotional connection is forged.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Shift Focus from Process to Reaction\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>The single biggest opportunity Chummies was missing had nothing to do with sewing machines or airbrushes. It was the human element. Their content was entirely focused on the *making* of the object, ignoring the emotional impact of *receiving* it.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do introduced a fundamental concept from neuroscience: \x3Cstrong>mirror neurons.\x3C/strong>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âIf I smile and I'm laughing and I'm experiencing joy... inside you're mirroring what's happening that you're seeing,â\x3C/em> he explained. \x3Cem>âThis is why when we watch movies, when the character gets choked up and they start crying, we start to cry. We can't even control it because we're mirroring.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Mirror neurons are the biological hardware for empathy. They allow us to feel what others are feeling, creating a powerful, often subconscious, connection. When your content only shows a process, the viewer is an observer. But when your content shows an emotional reaction, the viewer becomes a participant.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This is the difference between showing a cool shoe and telling a story that makes someone feel joy.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Do laid out a new story structure: \x3Cem>âYou can go to some young kid, you know, maybe not an affluent person, say, âWhat's your favorite team? Who do you love the most?â I have an idea for you... and you give it to him. He's like, âOh my god, you guys are the most.â That's the emotional reaction.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This reframe changes everything. The shoe is no longer the hero of the story. The person receiving the shoe is the hero. The craft is still essential, but it serves the larger narrative of creating a moment of pure, unadulterated happiness.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This approach transforms content from a demonstration of skill into an act of generosity. And that shift is the key to unlocking a different, more powerful
1kind of audience engagement, a concept Do frames as the âgiving economy.â As he explores in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/personal-brand-vulnerability-shadow-words-chris-do-2024\">a masterclass on building an authentic personal brand\x3C/a>, vulnerability and genuine connection are the currencies of modern influence.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Welcome to the Giving Economy\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Most creators operate in the attention economy. They fight for eyeballs, believing that whoever captures the most attention wins. But Do pointed toward an emerging and more sustainable model: the giving economy.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âI think we're shifting towards the giving economy,â\x3C/em> he stated. \x3Cem>âThat people will make more money by doing good in the world than they actually could sell services.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>He cited examples of creators who have built massive followings not by selling, but by giving. The man who films himself building a fence for an elderly neighbor for free. The people who mow overgrown lawns for families in need. The creators who repair homes for those who can't afford it.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>These creators often generate far more revenue from brand deals, sponsorships, and audience support than they would have by charging for their services. Why? Because a story about generosity is infinitely more shareable and emotionally resonant than a sales pitch. It's a key lesson for anyone trying to \x3Ca href=\"/watch/ditch-networking-build-authentic-personal-brand-2025\">build a personal brand that feels authentic\x3C/a> and not transactional.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>For Chummies, this means rethinking their 75/25 split between client work and personal projects. The 25% of self-initiated work isn't just for experimentation; it's an opportunity to create flagship content built on giving.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The playbook is simple and powerful:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Find a worthy recipient:\x3C/strong> A die-hard young fan, a community hero, a Make-A-Wish child. Someone for whom the gift will be truly meaningful.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Tell their story:\x3C/strong> Don't just show up with shoes. Film the conversation. Learn who they are and why they love their team. Build narrative stakes.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Orchestrate the reveal:\x3C/strong> The climax of the video is not the finished shoe. It's the look on their face when they see it for the first time.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>Do emphasizes that the motivation must be genuine. \x3Cem>âDo it because it's right. Don't do it because of that,â\x3C/em> he cautioned, referring to the potential for viral promotion. The byproduct of genuine giving is massive reach, but the act itself must come from a real desire to create a moment of joy for someone else.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>This strategy is not about abandoning commercial work. The client commissions pay the bills. But the giving-based content builds the brand, grows the audience, and creates the kind of emotional connection that turns followers into lifelong advocates.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>The Creatorâs Playbook for Breaking the Mold\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>Armed with a new understanding of emotional storytelling, Do provided a clear, actionable playbook for Chummies and any creator stuck on a plateau. It begins with a crucial piece of mindset advice.\x3C/p>\n\x3Ch3>Principle 1: Stop Running From Success\x3C/h3>\n\x3Cp>When Chris from Chummies acknowledged that Doâs feedback mirrored what made their 15-million-view Coca-Cola video successful, Do immediately spotted a classic creative pitfall. \x3Cem>âThis is the classic symptom of all creative people,â\x3C/em> he observed. \x3Cem>âThis worked really well. Let's do something different.â\x3C/em>\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Creatives crave novelty. But in business, when you find a formula that works, your job is not to abandon it but to understand it, replicate it, and milk it for all itâs worth. \x3Cem>âWe have to put that person, that personality, in the timeout box and say, you be quiet right now,â\x3C/em> Do advised. \x3Cem>âThis worked. We need to do this again and again and again.â\x3C/em> The goal is to prove you've exhausted the successful formula before moving on, not to jump to the next new idea out of boredom.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch3>Principle 2: Master the Art of the Mashup\x3C/h3>\n\x3Cp>To create true surprise, you need to bring together things that don't normally belong together. Do used the example of Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift, a cultural âmashupâ that combined the worlds of professional football and pop music, blowing up both.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The same principle applies to a product. Chummies was already combining two worlds: sneakers (streetwear culture) and jerseys (sports culture). The next level is to introduce a third, unex
1pected world.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âYou bring worlds,â\x3C/em> Do said, outlining a series of provocative combinations:\x3C/p>\n\x3Cul>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Sports + Luxury Fashion:\x3C/strong> Imagine a shoe made from a sports jersey and a vintage Louis Vuitton garment bag.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Sports + Street Art:\x3C/strong> Collaborate with a graffiti artist. Have them paint a large canvas, then cut up that canvas to create a limited edition run of shoes.\x3C/li>\n\x3Cli>\x3Cstrong>Sports + Automotive Culture:\x3C/strong> Incorporate materials or design language from iconic sports cars into a shoe celebrating a star athlete.\x3C/li>\n\x3C/ul>\n\x3Cp>This strategy of juxtaposition, a core concept in creative work, is about creating something that feels both familiar and entirely new. It is a direct assault on predictability. The expertise required to pull this off properly separates the true artists from the hobbyists, a distinction Do explores in \x3Ca href=\"/watch/originality-pricing-success-what-creatives-get-wrong\">his analysis of what creatives get wrong about originality and success\x3C/a>.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch3>Principle 3: Elevate the Execution\x3C/h3>\n\x3Cp>Finally, the way the content is filmed needs to evolve. The straightforward, flat-lit process video has its limits. Do encouraged them to look toward other genres that have elevated their visual language.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>\x3Cem>âGo super over the top, kind of like almost a Japanese anime, where it's like a big shoe shot and just like dramatic movements, wide angle lenses, very cinematic,â\x3C/em> he suggested. He pointed to the evolution of food content, which went from simple overhead shots to highly cinematic, slow-motion âcheese pullsâ and ripped, shirtless chefs preparing meals like ninjas.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The message is clear: \x3Cem>âYou've seen this, but you ain't seen the way I've done it.â\x3C/em> As the originators of their craft, Chummies has to continually innovate to stay ahead of the clones and copycats. That innovation must happen not just in the product itself, but in the way it is presented to the world.\x3C/p>\n\n\x3Ch2>Your Content Is Not a Recap. It's a Story.\x3C/h2>\n\x3Cp>The session with Chummies reveals a universal truth for all creators. Merely documenting your skill is not enough. That creates collateral, not content. Collateral shows what you can do. Content makes people feel something.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>The transition from one to the other requires a fundamental shift in perspective. You are not just a maker. You are a storyteller. And every story needs core elements to work: a hero the audience can root for, a clear source of tension, and an emotionally satisfying resolution.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>In the case of Chummies, the hero isn't the shoe; it's the kid receiving it. The tension isn't âwill he sew this right?â but âwhat will his reaction be?â The resolution isn't the finished product on a rotating stand; it's the moment of pure, unscripted joy.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Your process is a part of the story, but it is not the whole story. As Chris Do shows, your greatest tool for engagement isn't your technical skill. It is your ability to orchestrate an emotional reaction.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Stop just showing people how you make things.\x3C/p>\n\x3Cp>Start showing them what that creation means to someone else. That is the story people will actually react to. That is the story people will share.\x3C/p>",transcript:"00:00:00\nWe have pre-selected a handful of people who submitted their content for review. And this is all in an attempt to help you tune your content so that you achieve whatever result that you're going to achieve from Chummies. And there's two friends here, uh, Chris and Colin. We will show you a little bit if they're social content. So you guys can see that in a second here. They'll take a pair of sneakers, usually Nikes. For some reason, they seem to be all Nikes, but I'm sure there are other shoes. And\n\n00:00:25\nwhat they'll do is they'll take different patterns from sports jerseys and things like that. They'll cut them up. They'll sew them together to make something that feels thematically linked to what's going on. And I I I think these are commissions, right? If if I can deduce that, >> of course. Yeah, they're commissioned. And in fact, we are the original jersey making of the shoes. >> Oh, okay. Are there a bunch of clones that do this now? >> Well, there are.\n\n00:00:54\n>> Yeah. Okay. This is a world that I'm not I'm not familiar with. So, it's all good. Okay. So, you guys are the original. And what is the what is the outcome that you want to get from the creation of of content? What is it you're trying to do? >> I think it's really about how do we engage sports fans to kind of really feel like they are closer to their favorite team or favorite sport or favorite company or brand. And so how do we do that? Through showing off like\n\n00:01:27\nthese shoes that we call trophy shoes. >> Okay. So custom I'm going to just write here on my whiteboard custom trophy shoes. And what is the desired outcome? Fans feel more connected to their teams. >> Correct. Uh and to the brand. It really is. It's like these people want to wear not only wear these shoes, but they could be walking billboards because they're walking ambassadors of the company or the brand or the team or the player. >> Okay. So, I wrote down custom trophy\n\n00:02:01\nshoes um equals fans love brands. Something like that. Yes. I know it's upside down for everybody. Sorry. It's just the way it's >> Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah, I can see it. >> Yeah. But I can hold it up here so you all can see. But as I write, this is my notebook here. Okay. and the reason why we create content and how how do we measure the amount of love that fans show to brands? >> Well, in terms of purchasing shoes, so for that's the long end, but then on on\n\n00:02:29\nsocial it's it's the comments and the engagement around asking for like these types of shoes. So engagement. So that would be uh views and then comments and then shares something like that. Right. >> Right. >> Okay. Uh what is the baseline and what's the benchmark? Baseline is what's the average and then what would you like to get it to >> of of comment or engagement overall or >> you tell me. You tell me what matters to you and I'll write it down. >> What are we measuring? Well, we we like\n\n00:03:09\nviews, but we prefer comments and shares. >> So, what we do is we always ask about the baseline. So, I'll write this here. Baseline. And I'm going to take a little bit longer to talk to you versus just answering your question about content because I'm going to help a lot of creative people understand how to talk to potential clients or have a strategic business conversation. Notice we've not talked about any tactics. I just want to know what's important to you. So when we\n\n00:03:36\nsaid like the baseline, what's the average metric? You tell me. Uh views are like easier for us to look up. If you want to dig into your analytics, you can use that. I don't really care which one you use. For the sake of our conversation, pick one and let's stick with it. >> Okay. I think what if I were to choose comments? I mean, let's just go for views because I mean I it's easier to look up and it's also >> so we but I think what do we call success? I think we call success\n\n00:04:10\n10,000 views or more. >> Okay. What's the baseline? >> Um >>
1 you know what I mean when I say baseline? >> I do, but >> just kind of 5,000. Okay. >> Yeah, >> that's cool. That's very realistic, actually. So, I I like that you said five. So, on a reel that you drop, you average about 5,000 views. If it gets more than 10,000, we're moving in the right direction. I see that you have ones that have a lot more views. The top three pinned things on your Instagram\n\n00:04:42\naccount have a million-ish, right? >> Yes. >> Yes. That's fantastic. Now, are are those that high? because well sorry let me not lead the witness sorry your honor objection leading witness um why are those abnormally high >> um there's a few things and it usually it's because of viral levers like the the attention time that it was posted around maybe a major event or major moment >> um the second thing is the actual whatever it is if it's a shoe again tied to a game. So if Joe Burrow\n\n00:05:23\nis playing and he just scored a major point or it's the Super Bowl, the shoes of that video is going to increase at that moment. If it's a Pringles chip, if it's a Pringles chip, then it's maybe because we just released it. Or if it's >> or if it's Coke, then it's because it's kindly connected to the FIFA moment. Okay. So we are talking about like it strikes the nerve. It's trending part of the cultural zite guys which you can't always predict but it's not totally like\n\n00:05:57\nrandom chaos too. So we know that if it's tied to a cultural event that's happening everybody's looking forward then you're going to catch that wave and that's very important. Anything else that's contributing things anything else that's contributing to that? Well, at the very least, it's the behind the scenes of how a shoe is coming to life. Because though people are familiar with custom sneakers, not necessarily everyone is familiar with how they're made. And I think that there's a a level\n\n00:06:29\nof interest and desire to see how something so personal can be made over by a person. Okay. So, I'm going to flip this over to Colin for a second here. Colin, does that all line up with you from a creative standpoint? Are we are those normally high because they're hitting the right trends and zeitgeist? Is there anything else about them? Time of day, subject matter, something unique or different about the shoes? Anything like that? >> Not necessarily. I think the style is the same, but it also depend on who\n\n00:07:03\nmaybe like a collab post of some sort. I try to be consistent as possible as the time of day that I post. Um, >> yeah. >> And then, >> okay, >> try to trying to tie it to a big game or something. >> Okay. So, if if I'm going to put that out there, we're just going to park it as assuming that this is true because I don't know, but I'm going to take your your comments on this to be true like gospel that it's it's just hitting the right trends. So, what could we do in\n\n00:07:33\norder for it to hit the trends more consistently? Best guess? >> Keep a calendar of major moments and post around those major moments. >> And are these always like sporting events? >> I think that they're cultural moments. Um, but sporting I would from our point of view it it sports. >> Yeah, it's almost all sports, right? Because I was looking through it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So instead of just looking for cultural moments, we'll we're going to narrow it in because we're here for\n\n00:08:03\nwe're here for the sports fans, right? >> Yeah. >> These are all the major sports, right? Basketball, football, soccer, those kinds of things. Baseball, >> correct? >> Okay, cool. Okay, so the solution is just have a calendar. Just be more aware what's going on. And we have to be ahead of it because let's factor into it creative production time from moment of idea. How long does it take from I got an idea to it's out on Instagram? >> What's a lead time?\n\n00:08:33\n>> It's a call in question. >> I mean, I guess physical production time is between 8 and 10 hours, but I could have an idea for for months and just trying to like think of like the right time when to actually move it forward. >> I'm talking about when let's say the two Chrises, right? Asian Chris and black Chris says, \"We're ready. This is what you got to hit right now from that moment to like a real being done. >> How long is that? That's what I want to\n\n00:09:02\nknow. >> Less than 12 hours. >> Okay. So, you can shoot and edit in less than 12 hours. Okay. That's very good. So, this is great news for us, Chris, because within 12 hours or so, we can have idea 2 on Instagram hidden. So that means the planning part doesn't have to be that long except for I'm going to assume Connor or Colin needs materials. He's got to have the right materials beforehand, which good news, relatively cheap to attain unless it's like um a signature jersey or something, right? Do\n\n00:09:34\nyou ever use that like the winning jersey where the thing itself costs a lot of money? >> Yeah, there was uh yeah, I've used like game worn things and game footballs and stuff like that too. Yeah. Does the client supply you with those? >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Okay. >> How would you break down the Instagram reels on your your your channel? >>
1 Is it uh what percentage is commission versus selfinitiated? >> I would say 75 commission, 25. >> Okay, this is good to know. Okay, so\n\n00:10:09\nbasically three out of four posts you have no control over. Basically, you're you're doing client work. You got to hit a deadline. It's done. You'll film it. You get some uh views from it, engagement, and that'll be that. So, would be safe to say, let's take that off the table and focus most on the 25, the ones that you can control. Okay. Would there be anything that's going to prevent you from being able to produce this within 12 hours that you need Chris's help with?\n\n00:10:42\n>> What are the constraints to you being able to do this? I guess just other things going on or like um calls personal personal things. >> Okay, >> so we're going to list some constraints here. Constraints constraints and then so calls some personal stuff like you have a family, you have kids, anything that's going to take you away from doing this? No, not not that not that serious. >> Still a single man ready to do what needs to be done. >> Yep. >> Okay. [laughter]\n\n00:11:17\n>> Well, I would say travel. >> Yeah, travel, too. >> Travel. What's involved with travel? Like, what is that? >> Well, I mean, if you're going to need to make a shoe, it's going to be hard to make a shoe when you're away from your studio, >> right? He has to be in the shop, right? >> Correct. >> Okay. Anything else? So literally he couldn't do it if he's on vacation unless he brought his equipment with him. >> Yeah. Or found the nearest sewing\n\n00:11:47\nstudio, >> right? Which is possible, right? >> True. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, we know this and so we know big important things are happening. We probably should not plan travel on those days and we we can work around that. Okay, great. So, let's take a look at the clip that you shared with me and I'm going to share the screen. Okay. So, I don't know when this >> fan favorite Joe Burrow. >> Can I blow this? >> After leading the league in touchdowns\n\n00:12:12\nand yards last season, definitely excited to see if the Bengals can get back to the Super Bowl this year. Before I show you the final custom, here's a couple things you need to know about Joey B. He's been winner, a national champ at LSU, number one overall pick in the 2020 draft, took the Bengals to the Super Bowl his rookie year, and of course, you know the nickname, Joe Cool or Joey Burr. Ice in his veins, and style off the field that's just as bold as his game. Rate these 1 to 10 and tag\n\n00:12:35\nyour favorite NFL team down below. and they just might be next. [music] >> Okay, goes. >> We're getting a content strike right there with that track from the white stripes there. I gave you a like and I'm going to give you a comment. Hey, great job if I can spell. Great job, guys. Boom. See, I'm helping with the algorithm right now. >> Appreciate it. >> Every comment helps. So, let's go to the main account, which is chum_chum. Everyone checks them out. They have\n\n00:13:07\n67.3,000 followers. And if I look at these posts here, I'm going to click on this. I'm just going to look at how your reels perform. And this is what I'm talking about here. So, we have three pinned, which is what I believe everybody can do. Um, they're all above 300,000. Two of them are above a million. And so, there's a thumbnail, which is the jersey, I believe, framed, and it must be some kind of Photoshop template because they all look consistently the same. And then they've\n\n00:13:31\nbeen pinned. It's a 1.6, 300, and 1 mil. When we look at these other ones, they're all over the place. So, some are two, some are 132,000, 190. So, we have a couple outliers here. And I'm already suspecting something here. It's interesting. You notice something here, guys? I'm not saying I'm like Mr. Pattern making, pattern recognition machine robot here, but it does seem like when you show the jersey, it gets a little bit better performance. Not always, because some of them where\n\n00:14:00\nyou're showing cutting. So, look at this. the the top threeish performing posts have the thumb of the jersey. I don't know if that makes a difference. I'm just looking for anything that's a pattern. This one has 132,000. So then you can say, \"Well, Chris, this one has 2,000 and this one has 132 and they both have the jersey.\" I don't know
1who Bararkley 26 is, but is that person less or more famous than Smith number four? Because I'm I'm not an athlete clearly.\n\n00:14:29\nY'all tell me here. Chris Colen. Well, so the Smith one, that's a Ohio State football player. So I posted that Saturday morning before the the OSU Texas game, which is a pretty big game. >> Yes. >> And then that Barkley one I just posted like a couple hours ago for >> Okay. So it's still fresh. >> Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. >> Is there a game? >> Uh tomorrow is the first NFL season game. >> Okay. So it's a little ahead of the game there then, right?\n\n00:14:58\n>> Well, so yes, but that'll be part one. And I have another part two for for tomorrow. >> I see. Okay. Are there any other things that you can predict as to why these outperform aside from the the kind of cultural moment that we're experiencing? >> Name recognition is huge. Yeah. >> Um you saw Momes like there's I think there's a difference and that's kind of why I used the word culture earlier was because I think it goes beyond the sports fan. goes into pop culture and\n\n00:15:30\npeople like Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce are known across the board, even if you're not a true sports fan. And so I think that it's that popularity of the athlete or the team um or in addition to the game in the moment. >> Yeah. But I'm going to say this though, they're still athletes. It still runs sports culture. Just some athletes transcend pure sports fans and those are the superstars. Everybody knows Charles Barkley is uh Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and you don't even have to watch\n\n00:16:06\nbasketball to know. So, uh this is Is this Kelsey? >> No. >> Um no, I think that's just a a team, >> but he's a Kansas City guy, right? >> Right. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, because he's dating Taylor Swift, he's gotten a lot of lift from that. So that's a a crossover event between two worlds. Pop culture in terms of music and then pop culture in terms of sports. So you're getting a double hit there. And currently things with Taylor Swift tend to trend much much\n\n00:16:34\nhigher. So whenever those moments exist, right? >> Um okay. And Otani is a big deal, especially because you're dealing with baseball fans that are American and Japanese and casual fans who don't know anything about it seem to know him. And he seems to be like a once in a-lifetime kind of athlete right now. >> Okay. And I I've seen lines for him being shared on social where, you know, they're getting some kind of bobblehead or something stupid, but people are nuts over him. Right. Okay. All right. So, I\n\n00:17:03\nI think I have a sense of what y'all are doing here. Let me stop to share here. If if you had a guess, what would you guess that you need to do to increase your engagement? >> Some the word consistency comes up um maybe in the in the style of the content. Um that's one thing. >> Yeah, I would agree with that. >> What do you mean to be more consistent or less consistent? When you say consistency, you can go both ways. Um yeah, I guess be more consistent with um a strategy around\n\n00:17:45\nwho we're making shoes for and posting about and when we're posting about them. So like if Patrick Mahomes is going to be playing this weekend, then it makes sense to resurface that in the stories if we've already created the shoe. Otherwise, if it's a new athlete, maybe we need to and we're creating a new jersey around a new new shoe around that athlete. That that seems like what I would guess. Okay. Um All right. Since we have other people we need to talk to, I'm going to\n\n00:18:18\ngive you my opinion. Everybody needs to understand I'm I'm not a student of their account, so I don't know. I've just looked at it for the time in
1which we've talked about this. And I did some homework last night just so I'm a little bit familiar with what you do. Here's my guess. Social media content that engages me on an emotional level tends to perform better. So, when you show a team that I'm super excited about and there's a rivalry or an upset, of course, more\n\n00:18:45\npeople are going to be looking for this. But you can't control any of that. Now, I noticed something, Colin. When you do this, you're pretty consistent in the narration, the lighting, the editing. It's all pretty straightforward. And because it's almost always a Nike shoe as far as I can tell. There's after a while it becomes, and I'm sorry to say this if this hurts you a little bit, it becomes a little predictable, >> right? >> So I watched two or three of these\n\n00:19:08\nthings. I feel like I've watched them all now at this point. I'm just waiting for my team to win or to be in the playoffs. So I think you have to be able to do this in a way where the structure is consistent, but the outcome is not exactly predictable. And I I don't know what that means just yet. So I just want you to sit here and listen and process. It could be switching up the brand of the shoe or even the model just so I'm like sometimes it's different because there's only so many ways you can sew in\n\n00:19:34\njerseys and uh airbrush different designs on this, right? Sometimes maybe you have to dip it in something or just do something a little crazy. And I think this is where I want you to challenge yourself like if you do something a 100 times, you start to ask yourself like what's one variable I could change? And then you do that like I've never done this before. And sometimes they're just a disaster >> and they don't work. But you can tell people what you learned in making this\n\n00:20:00\nshoe. I'm gonna try something different guys. I've been fascinated by this this paint or whatever. I'm going to do this thing. Like I know that there's this black paint that you can use. That's the blackest paint ever. And it just looks like a 2D thing, right? Looks like a silhouette. I don't know what you would use that for, but I would experiment with construction, embellishments, different kinds of things in the 25% of the time that you make stuff. Clearly, you don't want to f around when it comes\n\n00:20:27\nto clients because they're like, \"This is ugly, bro. What are you doing? I thought you guys were good.\" kind of thing, right? Or maybe even take instead of jerseys, you take uh basketballs themselves and take them apart and use that for part like the toe kick or the tongue or something. or you dip the laces, something you just to change it up because I I'm like I'm intrigued like what's he gonna do now? You know, I love the last piece, but as I've watched three or five pieces of\n\n00:20:54\ncontent, I I I don't want to feel like I got his gig. I got it right. So, a good structure, but a surprising outcome, a technique, one variable that you throw in there, something like that. Okay, that's one thing that you can do. The number two thing that you can do is you can go
1super over the top kind of like almost a Japanese anime where it's like like big shoe shot and just like dramatic movements, wide angle lenses, very cinematic. I've seen the food prep game go to that level. Used to be like\n\n00:21:25\none camera pretty flat, people chopping ingredients and then it gets more and more cinematic and then now they're like breaking the sandwich and the cheese is dripping across. Then you have guys that are shirtless that are ripped and just doing it like ninja style. I'm like, so what they're doing is they're like, you've seen this, but you ain't seen the way I've done it. So you guys are the originator of this and eventually the competition catches up and you I'm like,\n\n00:21:48\nwhat what else am I going to do, right? And it could be something weird. I don't know. And and you need to introduce an element like that. Chris, you want to say something? >> I do. Do you So it sounds like the feedback is is consistent around focusing on the shoe. um and the making of the shoe as the source of the entertainment. Would is there any other suggestions outside of this of just like making the shoe that we should consider? >> Yes, there's lots. I was just getting\n\n00:22:21\nwarmed up here. >> Okay, >> so [laughter] if you look at the brand of the shoe, the make of the shoe, different materials, there's only so many variables that you can swap out. Okay. So, when we just look at jerseys, I'm like, \"Okay, I kind of know, but what if we took a piece of vinyl from an event that they were doing or a tablecloth cover that they did, something else other than this, the basketball, the tennis, tennis ball, something. So, we can change the materials, we can change the silhouette,\n\n00:22:49\nwe can change paint, we can change the assets and components in which we're working with so that they're like these are not just shoes. They're one-of-a-kind works of art that blow your mind. And I don't know what that means just yet, but that's just the production of it. Then there's how you shoot it, the color grading, and how over top you get. But the part that I think where I was leading with this conversation with you all is where's the motion? What's the part you can control?\n\n00:23:17\nNow, I've seen a young man, he does custom shoes. He draws all over them. He does some pretty crazy designs. But what he does is he asks whoever to film their reaction to that shoe. Because here's the thing. I don't know if you know this, but there's something called the mirror neurons in our brains. So if I smile and I'm laughing and I'm experiencing joy, you may not express any of that, but inside you're mirroring what's happening that you're seeing. This is why when we watch movies, when\n\n00:23:45\nthe character gets choked up and they start crying, we start to cry. We can't even control it because we're mirroring. And this is a necessary thing that we've evolved into so that we can feel connected to each other. Imagine if you're experiencing the greatest grief in your life. I'm walking. What's up everybody? Let's part. And you're like, whoa, bro. Not getting the vibe or you didn't read the room. So, I think if you can introduce an element of emotional reaction.\n\n00:24:12\nSo, for example, you can go to some young kid, you know, maybe not an affluent person, say, \"What's your favorite team? Who do you love the most?\" I have an idea for you. Meet me back here tomorrow. I'm going to make you something. and you're like, \"Okay, this kid, he wanted this and that and I wanted to add this and you give it to him.\" He's like, \"Oh my god, you guys are the most.\" That's the emotional reaction. Okay. There's also this part about like,\n\n00:24:35\noh, you can talk about your process, which is, huh, what am I going to do? So, we got this thing from this team and you're kind of like wrapping the table and you're like, I got it. I'm going to try this. And we see you going to get materials. So, you're delaying the reveal much, much longer. Stories need tension. So when you do something that's the same all the time, there's no more tension. We always know how it's going to begin. We always know how it's going to end. So that's where sometimes\n\n00:25:03\nconsistency actually doesn't help you. We always know there's a shoe and there's a finished product. But all the ways we get there in between, that's where it gets real interesting. Okay. Clearly you know how to make these things. I enjoyed wat
1ching the process. There's craftsmanship involved. And I'm like, \"Oh, I didn't know you could do that.\" And then you just do it. Cool. It could also be that you design a custom box, right? So that you're designing all\n\n00:25:27\nof it, not just the thing. So people then save the box and they Instagram the box and they backlink you. And I what I would do as much as possible and encourage whoever your clients are to continue to promote and share it on their accounts. It's important. the more people that are sharing, linking back to you, the the bigger the number of subscribers or followers you have, the more chances more eyeballs will hit it. So those that's my initial take on this and I wish I could do a deeper dive, but I\n\n00:25:55\nwant to pause here and just ask you if you have any specific questions which I I can then address. All those are great things and and the thing is I think we've done a lot of those and when I think back to especially like the Coke video that's why it went 15 million views is because it was it was different. It was like let me go on a hunt at the FIFA game and so it's like the storyline of what what what is Colin doing and then the surprising moments with Jamar Chase and how we had the kid\n\n00:26:25\nreaction. So I mean everything that you're saying is like it's all Huh? Yeah, it's worked already, but I don't think that we knew why or paid [laughter] attention to why why it worked, >> right? And so now it's kind of like with what you're saying is like how do we bring together all the things that have worked and those and and hearing your feedback and putting all those things in together to make a more consistent strategy of saying like, okay, well, we can use this element, this element, this\n\n00:26:56\nelement. And and the thing is when it comes to gifting like I I like that what you were talking about, you know, we're able to offer a gift um to people because there there's the unboxing and then the surprise and the emotional element of it. >> Yeah. There are people that um some I know in real life and some I just watch online where all they do is try and help people. You know who Uncle John is? He must be in the South, strong black man. He's like, \"H my neighbor. He needed a\n\n00:27:25\nfence and I don't want to charge him anything. So, you know, I have free time. What am I going to do on a Sunday? Oh, nothing thing. It's just four hours and he built a fence. 2 million views. So, I am I think I may be pointing out to a new trend or a term called the giving economy. People talk a lot about the attention economy. Those that can control and capture and divert attention will be the millionaires and billionaires. But I think we're shifting towards the giving economy that people\n\n00:27:51\nwill make more money by doing good in the world than they actually could sell services. People who mow lawns for people like elderly, you know, uh people who repair people's homes because they just want to. So instead of charging somebody $2,000 or fix their fence or their front door, they will make more money in brand deals and their followers than they do from actually charging for it. Do not underestimate this. So finding a person that's worthy of getting shoes, you know, like you hang\n\n00:28:18\nout around the right places, you're going to see like a parent saying, \"You can't have those.\" You know, or you're at a game and you see his kid and it's really well behaved and said, \"Hey, what's your favorite team? You know, who you rooting for?\" And you have a whole dialogue and you shoot that and it's like I have an idea. I'm going to gift you a pair of shoes. What size shoe are you? You know, tell me a little bit more about you. And then you go away and make\n\n00:28:37\nthat thing. I have one other idea that's a little crazy, but I'm going to share it with you. Okay? And we'll wrap up here. So the the observation I have is uh this is the classic symptom of all creative people. This worked really well. Let's do something different. >> You know what I mean? Like 15 million views for Coca-Cola. I'd be like um yeah. So how do we change one variable about this and do the exact same thing again? Creative people feel stifled and choked when they do the same thing over\n\n00:29:03\nand over again. So we have to put that person that personality in the timeout box and say you know you be quiet right now. this worked. We need to do this again and again and again. Prove to me that we've milked this cow to death and there's no more milk. It's it's dry, right? And we want to do that. Here's the crazy idea. Okay, so you have um what's his name? Travis Kelce. Is that his name? The Kansas City guy. I don't know anybody. >> Yeah. Yeah. >>
1 Travis Kel and you have Taylor Swift.\n\n00:29:31\nTwo worlds combined together blow up both worlds. >> So Swifties are now becoming football fans. And the football fans may or may not be listening to Taylor Swift. I do not know. But it's a power of merger of two things. So right now the blanks basically your canvas are the Nikes, right? So you have that and then you have the jersey. So those are two things are coming together. That's why I think you have this initial pop. What would be really interesting to me is especially if you made this for someone who might\n\n00:29:58\nwear them and not just put it on a shelf. He said, \"You know, my favorite fashion brand is this. My favorite team is that or this this athlete.\" And you brought those two things together because I could see one where you use a jersey and you use a vintage Louis Vuitton bag. So, buy those big garment bags because you have a lot of material work with and just introduce some elements. You bring those two worlds together or bring like sports cars and and athletes together or just bring two\n\n00:30:24\nthings, mash them up and like, wow, the josition. No one ever thought of that. And it would be really really cool. >> You bring worlds. Okay. >> Welcome to the team, Kristen. >> Yeah, I expect to check [laughter] sometime pretty soon here. So, let's try this. Okay, let's do small experiments. And when you hit something, don't run away from it. Say, \"Yo, what do we do? What is it about this?\" And let's test the hypothesis and see if we can do it again and again and again. I would love\n\n00:30:54\nto see you working with artists, too. When I say artists, I mean like street artists. because street art and and uh street wear go together. So if you had a graph artist come in and do a piece on a giant canvas or piece of vinyl and you were able to cut that up. We're doing limited editions of these of five or 50. We're going to gift two to the artist and rest to the inner city kids. We're going to take it to this thing, you know, or or a foster home. You know, kids don't get no love. We're going to\n\n00:31:21\ngive them all the love and you come in there. I'm already crying just thinking about it. You guys, come on. >> Yeah. Can you do this? >> We we we we will do that for sure. We will do do that. >> Um so here's what they're they're saying in the comments on YouTube. Why not do this for celebrities versus common people? You can do this for celebrities if you have access. Access is a difficult thing. But you know, do celebrities need more free junk? Probably not. I'm not going to cry\n\n00:31:50\nbecause you know, whoever athlete got gets another shoe. Probably not. but you tap into their superstardom and that makes a lot of sense. I'm trying to give you advice that you don't need special permission to to do and you don't need special access, you can do this today cuz yeah, um if LeBron James said, \"Yo, hook me up, bro.\" Take that offer right away. Do not hesitate. Do not pause. Say yes. When how high, you know? But most of us, what we do is we create conditions in which we can't take\n\n00:32:19\naction. Like, oh, if only this person said yes. Or you know
1what happens a lot of times? And I hate to say this and I hope I don't become this is that sometimes people become really entitled and jaded. You pour your heart and soul into something, you make them a piece of art. They're like, \"Cool.\" They don't share it. They don't mention it. They're like, \"Actually, don't tag me in anything cuz I don't like that.\" Cuz they just don't genuinely feel it. To\n\n00:32:42\nme, the emotional strings that you're able to pull with people who are deserving, needy of this, who are like really big fans, especially like Make a Wish kids, you know, you're like, \"Dude, we made you something.\" You know, and I'm not saying to do it for this reason, but a lot of times those Makea-Wish kids, then have the shoe and then they talk to LeBron and they're like, \"Look at this. You're my favorite athlete. These guys over at Chummies made me this free promotion.\n\n00:33:07\n>> Do it because it's right. Don't do it because of that. and everything else should fit fall into place, guys. >> No, we're very inspired by this moment. It's definitely be on the lookout for some really good stuff this this November for sure. >> See what you guys create >> coming up. All right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And hey, I like Nikes. I would just try different silhouettes from them. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. >> Okay. Even that will just change the\n\n00:33:37\ngame for you. gives you different panels to work with, gives you a different silhouette, a different shape. And I think I would go for that. If you are a person who creates content, you are a coach, an author, a thought leader, and [music] you're tired of just making content for content's sake, and you you're invested in this, you want to see it work because you know the value of content. I'm not here to convince you, but if you've enjoyed any part of this and you think I'm the kind of guy who\n\n00:34:04\nyou would get along with and who could possibly help you, this was a little sample. This is an amuse bouch. This is what we're going to do inside content lab, a new program that we're launching. It'll be a link in the description. We meet twice a month. We do hot seat coaching, which is each person 10 minutes. And I think for the first 40 people who sign up, you're going to be guaranteed a coaching spot. And we have resources. I've compiled a bunch of things on [music] how to tell a really\n\n00:34:33\ngood story, how to write compelling hooks and lines. We have 52 writing prompts like once a week, so you'll always know that you have something to do, but not in a way that overwhelms you. I think once a week is a good cadence, especially if you're not used to consistently producing content. Look, if you enjoy the kind of content that I produce, if you engage with it on social media, if you like the style in which I deliver things, that's all I'm going to do is I'm going to teach you how to do\n\n00:35:00\nwhat I do. Period. Uh, so no engagement groups, no weird black hat stuff. It's all above board white hat. [music] And I don't really care about schedules or posting times and optimizing for any of that. I'm sure some of you want to do that, and that's okay if you do. But my style is when I feel inspired, I write. Luckily, I'm inspired a lot, so I write a lot. I want to help you do that. So, Content Lab, how much does it cost? It's $500 a month. So, that's $6,000 a year.\n\n00:35:28\nEssentially, if you buy the year plan, which I recommend you do, you basically get two months for free. So, you pay for 10 months, which is five grand. Um, and if you think one new lead, one new prospect is worth five grand, then it's a no-brainer. Okay? And that's it for me. Bye, everybody.",youtube_url:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05XuPA4Q_SE",youtube_embed_url:"https://www.youtube.com/embed/05XuPA4Q_SE",thumbnail_url:"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/05XuPA4Q_SE/maxresdefault.jpg",duration_seconds:2148,duration_display:"35m",view_count:13742,published_at:"2026-01-17T13:30:01+00:00",spotify_url:null,apple_podcast_url:null,meta_title:"Make Content People React To, Not Just Watch | The Futurâ¢",meta_description:"Chris Do explains why your content is predictable and how to create emotionally resonant stories that drive real engagement. Stop documenting, start orchestrating.",status:"published",created_at:"2026-03-14T23:06:19.268406+00:00",updated_at:"2026-09-28T06:00:05.200565+00:00",faq:$R[172]=[$R[173]={answer:"Your content is likely high-quality but predictable. If your audience can guess the ending of every video, there's no tension to hold their attention. Chris Do advises introducing variability in your format, materials, and outcomes to create surprise and keep viewers invested.",question:"Why is my high-quality content not getting engagement?"},$R[174]={answer:"Shift the focus from your creative process to the recipient's reaction. By filming someone's genuine joy or surprise, you activate mirror neurons in the audience, creating a shared emotional experience. This human connection is far more engaging than simply observing a craft.",question:"How can I make my social media content more emotional?"},$R[175]={answer:"The giving economy is a content strategy where you build your brand by generously giving your products or services away to deserving people. Chris Do explains that the powerful stories generated from these acts of kindness can attract a larger audience and more valuable brand deals than you would earn from direct sales.",question:"What is the 'giving economy' for content creators?"},$R[176]={answer:"No, not completely. Chris Do warns against abandoning a successful formula out of creative boredom. Instead of changing it, analyze why it works and find ways to replicate that success by changing minor variables. Don't let the desire for novelty sabotage a winning strategy.",question:"My most successful content format is boring me. Should I change it?"}
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